Armour Thyroid Medication Reformulation Part II
by patient-advocate
Filed under Thyroid
When Forest Labs changed how Armour Thyroid Medication was formulated, there apparently was no announcement made to physicians, pharmacists or patients taking the drug. Forest has not responded to my request for information or an interview regarding this issue although their Pharmaceutical Customer Service Telephone Number (866-927-3260) states that there are “unexpected production delays” with certain strengths of Armour Thyroid.
When my hypo-thyroid symptoms re-appeared after getting my thyroid prescription refilled, and it was the second time that this had happened, I went online to research possible causes. And imagine my amazement when I discovered I was not the only one having difficulty with the new Armour. I found hundreds of other patients with similar stories reporting brain fog, tiredness, muscle and joint pain, hair falling out, feeling cold, weight gain. All symptoms I was all too familiar with and which were associated with improper levels of thyroid hormone in my body.
According to sources who have been able to speak to someone at Forest Labs, the laboratory changed the fillers in Armour Thyroid. The changes that were reported to have been made include the following: increasing cellulose (this has made Armour more difficult to dissolve), and reducing the amount of dextrose (which was the ingredient which gave it a slightly sweet taste). The “active component” of Armour has said to have remained the same.
Why you must stay vigilant regarding any medications that you take: Medications are made up of “active ingredients” which is the actual part of the tablet containing the specific “medicine” and in-active ingredients which can be flavors, fillers, and dyes. This is why you may have a brand name medication that is similar to a generic version of a drug, but generic versions may work differently for individuals. Because all of us are unique in how we respond to medications, certain fillers or non-active components of a medicine may help or hinder your body from absorbing or responding to a particular medication. That is one reason why in certain cases some physicians will not allow substitution of a generic drug for a brand name, or perhaps vice-versa. In the case of the Armour reformulation it has nothing to do with generic vs. brand names but it is important to understand how fillers, dyes and flavors can effect your response to a medication. From the hundreds of e-mails I’ve received from thyroid patients who had read my first post regarding Armour Thyroid’s reformulation it appears that there are many of us whose bodies are not responding properly to the medication change.
If you are taking Armour Thyroid and have comments about this issue please enter your thoughts below. Let me know if you are experiencing any problems or if the medication is still working for you. One way to tell if you have the “old” Armour or new formulation is that the old formulation had a stronger smell, whereas the new one is less pungent. If you’ve taken Armour before you will understand.
In the next installment, I’ll explain what thyroid medication I am now using, and the good news is that I am slowly getting back to my old self, and the hypo-thyroid symptoms are slowly disappearing.
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Hi Melissa,
Yes, you are correct, it is important to skip the thyroid medication on the morning of your blood draw, also to make sure you are fasting for 12 hours prior, just water, (as long as you are not diabetic or don’t have any other medical conditions that would require you to speak to your doctor about fasting for 12 hours), and also make sure no coffee, juice, gum, mints etc. The other thing is to make sure your blood draw is scheduled for early am. 8:00 am or 9:00 am at the latest is best.
On the T3, you mentioned was this Free T3 or Just T3? There is a difference so please clarify which one you had tested and that will also help to see which one was measured.
The iron is something that should be tested before going on it, so in my opinion, I would wait, get the full iron testing including the serum iron, TIBC and ferritin before starting on it or making any adjustments with that. Also, if you are supplementing with iron, you should be off all iron supplements for 5 days prior to testing, and be fasting for the iron test as well, and make sure that for 5 days prior you aren’t having iron rich foods. No need to cut out all iron from your diet, but it’s just important not to have steak for five days in a row or other meat high in iron or have lots of iron enriched products prior to going for your bloodwork.
You can also get medication in 1/4 grain, so for example if for some reason the 1.5 grain is too much ie: the 90mg, then you can split into 1/4 tablets if you have a good pill splitter and are careful, or split a 30mg tablet in half etc. The TSH level being low is normal for anyone on thyroid replacement medication that has both T3 and T4 in it, so that number isn’t really a good indicator of how to dose thyroid hormone once you are on it.
And keep in mind, your labs are just numbers, it’s important to see how you feel as there are starting to be thyroid doctors who have published books and articles and say that the best indicator is how the patient feels. There’s a book written years ago by a noted endocrinologist, Dr. Broda Barnes, and he was way ahead of the curve even back then when it was written, at figuring out a bunch of this thyroid stuff, that some doctors are just now learning about.
Iron and iodine are very different. Iodine can be helpful for some thyroid patients but that’s also something not to just start before one makes sure that they do not have positive thyroid antibodies.
I can’t recall if you had your thyroid antibodies tested before, if not, let me know and I’ll give you the names of the two to request. Sometimes people read that things like iodine can be helpful for thyroid function and then start taking it and if antibodies are present, like with Hashimotos, the iodine can actually make that worse. So important to know for sure before adding in that type of thing.
Iron, totally separate issue, I’ll see if I can find some of my older articles about iron references and see if one of the moderators here will help get them posted so that everyone here can read and benefit.
I’m so glad you are getting copies of your lab numbers etc. That’s one of the biggest things that helped me. It was all gobblygook to me at first, but finally makes sense, and with getting help from other people here, it’s really made me feel like my life is back:-)
Hope your doctors appointment goes well, and will be anxious to hear how it goes for you!
Hi Jackie,
The reason why the doc only had me on the 90mg for a little bit is because when they ran the blood work some of my results were borderline high thyroid dosage . My TSH was .35 (.40-4.0) my T4, Free .99 (.80-1.8) and T3 was 297 (60-181). I do remember reading that you shouldn’t take your meds before you go in for bloodwork and I honestly can’t remember if I did or not. So, I might have a false reading. Going in next week for more blood test done after being on Thyroid NP. Will post results after I get them. I will also ask for the iron tests that you mentioned. There for a little bit I was taking Floradix liquid iron but then stopped to see what was going on with just the thyroid meds. Maybe I just need to start supplementing that again. I believe the recommended dose was 10ml 2 times a day. I too would like to know the difference between taking Iron and Iodine. I even cancelled my hair highlighting appointment for tomorrow. I didn’t know if that would put more stress on my hair and make more come out! BTW-I absolutely agree about being your own advocate! I don’t want to settle for less or even settle for the doctors answers that the reason why I’m tired is probably the fact I have four kids and are running around all the time. IT’S JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH! The doctors might have degrees behind their name, but only you know how you feel and how you can feel. I’m not giving up!
I just found this site because my hair has been falling out and I have Hashimotos thyroid. Can anyone let me.know why iron is so important?
Hi Melissa,
If you were taking 90 mg of Armour and then went all the way down to 65 mg of Thyroid NP that’s likely not enough medication for you. (Especially if you are having symptoms of hypothyroid). And that doesn’t really make sense that your doctor wouldn’t have simply kept you o the equivalent dose. 90 mg of Armour is equivalent to a grain and 1/2 and 65 mg of Thyroid NP would only be one grain. So it would absolutely make sense to see if your doctor will ok your changing to taking one and one half tablets of your Thyroid NP which would be equal to the 90 mg of Armour that you were on before. The pill splitter is ideal for just cutting tablets in half to get the proper dose without having to get a new RX.
On the iron thing, yes, that’s something else many of us are having to learn for ourselves. Here are the iron tests you need to ask for:
Serum Iron
TIBC and
Ferritin
You must have all 3 three tests, and you should always get copies of your labwork–please done rely on a phone call telling you everything is “great or normal”. I learned this the hard way, now I have a binder of all my labs and I know the difference between “in range” or optimal levels. But many docs are not spending time researching or reading about the details, and it’s the details that make all the difference for thyroid patients.
Ferritin levels have to be at a certain level otherwise you will see hair loss, and it’s also related to fatigue, exercise tolerance and the ability for thyroid meds to work properly etc.
I’m glad you are questioning how you feel–we don’t have to settle for feeling less than our best, so keep on being your own advocate. When you get all the pieces of the puzzle worked out–it’s so worth it!
I’ve been feeling a little more tired than usual lately for some reason since taking the Thyroid NP. I’m wondering if my dosage will need changed. I’ve taken the old Armour 60 mg for years went up to 90 mg of Armour and then switched 3 weeks ago to 65 grain? of Thyroid NP. I’m getting levels retested in a week or so. Will be interesting to see what they show since the switch. Has anyone ever gotten immediate negative/positive reactions after first increasing their dosage?
Acella Question – For Stephanie
Hi Stephanie, welcome to our thyroid support group. Glad to have you join us! Acella, actually is the manufacturer of a generic thyroid medication–the name of it is called Thyroid NP or sometimes you will see it written as NP Thyroid, made by Acella. I used to be on Armour Thyroid for many years–until it was changed and had too much cellulose in it for my body to be able to use it anymore.
The GREAT thing for me was that once Acella came out with the Thyroid NP, I felt like I had my “old” Armour back..the kind that used to work well, give me energy and keep my hair on my head instead of “in the shower.” LOL, when Armour was changed–I had tons of problems, so I was so thankful that this new natural thyroid made by Acella was available.
I crush mine with a spoon so yes, you can definitely still take it the Acella brand of thyroid (Thyroid NP) sublingually, and you may not need any honey because the Acella has, in my opinion, just the right amount of sweetness in it already so that it dissolves quite fast and easily. The reformulated Armour was quite chalky in my opinion compared to the old type, so I used to have to add honey to the Armour after the formula was changed.
I’d love to hear how the Acella brand of Thyroid NP works for you, so please update as soon as you get a chance. It’s really interesting to hear how others are doing with the generic thyroid now that it has been available for a while. And it’s really inexpensive too. My deductible is very high so it helps if I can save money on my thyroid prescription!
Any questions—just ask away. There’s so many helpful people here. I’ve picked up so many good tips.
Hi guys! New here and tonight I went to pick up my armour (by forest labs) and went to take my night time dose and *GASP* to my surprise, it was not my normal armour! It is made by Acella and I am leery since I have never used it before. I am wanting lots and lots of feedback on it since there is not a whole lot of information on it. BTW, the way I take my meds is I take it once in the AM and once right before bed and pulverize it with my teeth and take with a dab of local honey. Works great for me! Does anyone else here take Iodine as well? I do and it has helped me tremendously. I was very deficient. Thanks guys and gals!
Jackie,
Thanks for your response. I did “supposedly” get some blood tests run in which I told them I wanted my iron level checked as well. The only thing that I can see on the results is “Cbc is normal, indicating that iron levels are normal”. But I have a sneaky suspicion that it’s not. I remember reading on various websites that there are various tests you should request to get a true reading of what’s going on with your iron. Granted, its only been 3 weeks since starting the Thyroid NP, but maybe I have unrealistic expectations to finally have my hair stop coming out in my brushes and start having some “Good Hair Days”. I just don’t want to overlook the possibility of an iron deficiency as well.
Kristi,
How long have you been on this journey to start feeling like yourself again? Were you on the old Armour for awhile?
On a side note–I’ve just been crushing the pill up between 2 spoons and just slipping the powder under my tongue. I wonder if there’s any difference with technique?
Jackie,
Thanks for this info, I’ve considered crushing it to save time and now I think I’ll try it. I’ve heard mortar/pestle (they way you’re doing it) is better than a pill crusher because it’s often difficult to get all of the powder up…and we all know how important getting every last bit is!
Melissa,
So glad you’re feeling better. It’s such a long process and I didn’t expect it to take as long as it has but the road is worth it. I almost feel like old Kristi at this point! yay!
Re: Question about Crushing Thyroid Medicine
Hi Melissa,
I crush my Thyroid NP with a spice crusher, but I think I may get on of the pill spitters crushers that is discussed as it would probably be easier to do with a smaller device than what I am using. I think my medicine works much faster when I crush it and it almost dissolves instantly, but I guess you can also let it dissolve under the tongue if you want to take it that way. I see a Doctor of Osteopath and I asked him when I went in for my check up today and he said either way is ok. His preference is for me to crush it simply because it dissolves so quickly in that manner, but letting it dissolve under the tongue according to my doctor is alright. For sure he does not want me to swallow the tablet, says I get more effect from the medication if I do the dissolving method, so that’s what I’m going to continue doing.
I’m glad you are noticing more energy. Have you had your iron and ferritin checked? I apologize if I missed any info about this if you posted before. I have to cook dinner for the kids and jumped on here real quickly to give you an update on what my doctor said about your question, so if I missed any info about what labs you have checked I’m sorry about that. Anyway, Bethanie from this thyroid support group is very knowledgeable about iron and ferritin issues and how that affects hair. I think she’s been away for a while as her mom was very sick but I heard through another girl who sometimes I get updates from that Bethanie is back and will be helping some of us who have questions about all the wonderful things that can go astray with regards to our thyroids:-) Keep on feeling better!!!!! Isn’t it nice to know that we don’t have to be on the synthetic thyroid medication?
It’s been almost 3 weeks now since starting the Thyroid NP. Still feeling “warm” and I feel like I have a little more energy then before. Before my body felt like it was just trying to shut down and go in a hiberation mode. I am still seeing “some” hair loss. (My thinning hair seems to get tangled alot more easily) Hopefully I’ll start seeing a reversal of this process soon. I’ve been crushing my pill up each morning and putting it between my lip and gum. I’ve also tried putting it just under the tongue. Does anyone know if one procedure is more effective than the other? If anyone has any insights to what I should expect to see at this stage of the new meds, please feel free to offer any advice/insights. Thanks
Well, I’ve been on the Thyroid NP just a little over a week. I have still gotten tired at time s(although I think they were at appropriate times to get tired). But, I would have to say that I think I have an overall increase in energy and I feel overall ‘warmer”. Haven’t seen a decrease in weight yet–maybe too soon? And also my hair still feels thin from my previous loss (while on the Armour). Hopefully the other positive effects you all seem to be having will also follow shortly–I’m impatient!
Since I started my new bottle of Naturethroid I have had headaches about every day, weight gain, fatigue, and I have memory problems. I did great on the old version. Kay
I should also clarify that I researched hormonal problems and hypothyroid issues prior to diagnosis because I knew something had been wrong for years. At least 5+… So, I was lucky enough to be confident in demanding dessicated thyroid from the get go and never took Synthroid. I’m about 7 months into treatment. It’s a process… heh!
Hi again all!
Lisa, I did notice a difference pretty quickly. Within 4 weeks I’d say, though I was only on my starting dose of 30mg at that time. When I started on Armour, took it for a few weeks by swallowing it whole, then started crushing it and taking it sublingually after I read about the re-formulation. I was basically so desperate at that point that if someone told me to stick it up my nose and dance a jig, I would have tried it. After a couple of months on it I was researching alternatives (even obtaining Canadian Erfa) and stumbled upon a thread discussing NP Thyroid. That was enough for me, I called Walgreens, they had it in stock and I switched. Very very glad I did. As of yesterday I’m up from 90mg to 120mg after 6 weeks at 90. It seems like with each increase I feel better even quicker. I believe I’m almost ‘there’, fingers crossed.
Melissa,
I place the whole pill/s (now, one 90mg and one 30mg to equal 120) under my tongue at let it dissolve. Takes about 15 min but no biggie, I do it in the shower (just don’t open your mouth!!, haha) I’m sure you can crush it as well.
Thanks for welcoming me!! This has been a rough handful of years, I understand your pain completely and I feel like I’m finally getting my life back.
Lisa,
Thanks for the added info. I have only been taking the Thyroid NP for just a couple of days, but Ive been putting the whole pill under my tongue. I thought that was the way people were doing it (that’s how they discovered the reformulation in the first place? Because it wasn’t dissolving like it used to?) I think I will switch to crushing it up. Do you think there is any benefit to placing it between your lips and teeth as opposed to under the tongue? Thanks. Just trying to learn all I can.
Kristi, welcome to the thyroid support board…glad you joined us and thank you for sharing about your experience with NP Thyroid by Acella. It is nice to know that you are also using the sublingual method–I feel the same way as you, it dissolves so easily taking it sublingually. I was told to do this by my Nurse Practitioner. And I was previously on the old Armour and then the Naturethroid, but I like the NP Thyroid the best so far. I know what you mean about the thyroid issues being a mess. I thought I was going crazy before I found this board and learned that it wasn’t “just me” that the reason I felt so terrible just could be because of the cellulose in the Armour Thyroid and then in the Naturethroid etc.
When you switched to the NP Thryoid did you notice a difference right away or did it take you a while to feel better?
Melissa, For me I noticed fairly quickly that I felt better when I switched to the NP Thyroid. It was a while ago but I think I felt better within a few days. I also lost weight and my hair seems to grow much faster now and is back to it’s original thickness. The weight loss was not immediate for me, it was more gradual. But the nice thing about losing weight after changing to the NP Thyroid was that it didn’t seem like such a struggle. Meaning that before I would seem to just force things with the weight issue and count calories, exercise as much as possible and still never seemed to budge the scale. Now, If I am reasonable about my eating, and exercise regularly, my weight is much more easily managed. And I lost about 10 pounds total after changing my Thyroid medicine without really too much effort. I’m not sure if that makes sense to any of you all, but you know when before when things seem so hard and you struggle and struggle with the scale, then if something changes that makes things go more smoothly without such an effort, that’s what the NP Thyroid change did for me.
What I do with the sublingual is to crush my tablets using a pill crusher, then I put the crushed medication on a spoon and put it between my front gums and teeth and just let it dissolve. My Nurse Practitioner says this way the medicine doesn’t have to be taken an hour before food because it does not have to be processed in the stomach but goes directly into your blood stream. If you have any other questions…just ask. It’s nice to know we are not alone in all this thyroid confusion:-)
I’m fairly new diagnosed Hypo, though I’m pretty confident I’ve had symptoms for many years. I’m not quite optimized yet, but I will say I’m very happy with NP Thyroid by Acella. I too take it sublingually and my 90mg pill (hopefully 120 soon) dissolves under my tongue in about 10-15 min while I’m in the shower in the morning. I took Armour for the first few months without any reprieve and through research realized that it had been reformulated some years ago. NP Thyroid, for me, has been a game changer. I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. A tunnel I didn’t even realize I was in…. This thyroid stuff is a mess, but there’s hope and things can and will get back to normal. Patience is the hard part for me.
Lisa, Thanks for your reaffirmation. I figured it probably had been discussed but I went only so far back in the comments. I’ve been trying to do what research I can on the subject. I can’t believe I just now found out by accident! I’ll definitely be paying more attention to the medication in the future! I will start taking the Thyroid NP tomorrow. I’m really anxious to see if I can tell a difference. Some people seem to say they immediately felt better, while others noted headaches, racing heart, etc. (maybe just an adjustment to new meds perhaps?). Lisa, I’m glad you mentioned the sublingual procedure. Yes I would be interested if you could go into more detail. I have been just swallowing my armour for 12 yrs now? How long would you say it took to notice any difference? Did you have any weight loss, or stop loss of your hair? Thanks for any info.
Re: Naturethroid Reformulation
Hi Melissa, I’m glad you brought this up again and yes, we’ve been discussing this here on the thyroid support group for quite a while. But the Naturethroid reformulation and the cellulose issue is one that I don’t think we can ever talk about enough….because as new people are joining knowing about the choices that thyroid patients have with regards to thyroid medicines is something that all of us have dealt with and continue to deal with.
For anyone who is having issues with either Armour Thyroid or Naturethroid there is another medication that someone here had posted about and it is the one I use now and like. Remember each of us is different so just because something works for some of us doen’t mean it is the right choice for everyone!
NP Thyroid – Manufacturer Acella is the thyroid medicine that I use and many of the ladies that I learned from here on this support group told me about it. The NP Thyroid does not have cellulose in it so as such it does not have that chalky taste and dissolves very easily.
I also take mine sublingually and can write more about this if anyone is interested. It is just another tip that I learned here but I can share more about my experiences with sublingual thyroid if anyone wants to know:-) Glad to help anyone who has more questions so don’t be shy about asking. I asked so many questions when I was first diagnosed with hypothyroid. LOL…could not seem to get answers from my doctor so I went online and found this group and got educated about all kinds of things relating to my thyroid. Again, thank you Melissa for posting about the naturethroid, it only helps when we all share the things we find out.
Sorry if this has already been posted, but I was doing some more investigating on the Thyroid medicines and I just learned that they reformulated Nature-Throid in 2010 to contain the cellulose just like they did with Armour and that alot of people were fine for the first couple of weeks but took a turn for the worse! Didn’t know if you knew or if anybody had experienced the same bad symptoms?
I was on Levothyroxine for about 6 months along with Armour and Xymogen Med Caps T3 and I was still having problems. I would get up in the morning feeling great and after taking these meds I would go down hill fast, so I decided that I would take them one at a time and see if I got a reactions and sure enough after taking the Levothyroxine I had a problem. After some research on the computer I found out that Levothyroxine is in a milk base and I am Lactose Intolerant and am also allergic to milk products. A call to Walgreen and a talk with the pharmacist , who didn’t know that Levothyroxine was milk based and a call to my Dr solved the problem. I was put on a bio identical T4 and so far things are just right. My lab results are due out sometime this week so we will see what the numbers are.
Moral of the Story:
Don’t take Levothyroxine if you have a problem with milk products
Be your own Dr. and research, research, research
After reading alot of the previous posts I’m going to try and get a script for the Nature-throid or the generic Thyroid NP from my doc. I started on Armour back in 2000 and have maintained a pretty steady dose of 60 mg. My hypo symptoms had been getting worse (per my previous comment) so my doc increased my dosage to 90mg. I’ve been on that for about a couple of months. Just had bloodwork ran…my Free T4 was .99, my TSH .35 my T3 was 297 (abnormal). So things brings me to a couple of questions. 1) can my numbers still “look” pretty normal yet somethings still off to make the cold, weight gain and hair fall out symptoms hang around? 2) once you have switched to the other alternatives such as Nature-throid or Throid NP for example, how long did it take for you to start reversing your symptoms? (LOSE weight, hair STOP falling out, etc.)? Hopefully the “RECOVERED” people on this forum will still hang around and help those of us that are just finding out about the problem to help with some advice, wisdom and experience.
It’s good to know I’m not losing my mind (although I am losing my hair!…wonder, which is worse? 
)
I’ve been on Armour since around 2001. Last couple of years I thought I was going crazy. Feet and hands cold most of the time, shortness of breath, forgetfullness, tired and weight gain (no matter how much I exercised). I thought maybe I had low iron. Bought some Floradix liquid iron at the health food store and tried it without much improvements. Did not even find out about the Armour reformulation until just yesterday! It all makes sense now. Now trying to figure out how to get back to normal…..
have been on armor thyroid for approx. 12yrs. for the past month or so having palpatations again after not having them for years!!!
Hi everyone. Is there a specific place on this site where I can post my lab results to get some help? My doctor thinks I have Hashi’s and wants to put me on Armour, but I don’t feel comfortable with this option because I don’t think his diagnosis is correct. Where can I post my labs? Thank you!
I am so glad to know I am not a nut case. I too have had a lot of problems with latest armour. I called doctors office back in January to see if they heard anything cause I noticed right away. I called pharmacy and finally Forest Labs. But, of course, no one new of any new changes.
After three months of feeling like “s’ (tired all the time, bla like depression, sleeping alot, weight gain,chills and fever on an off, hair loss) I figured this has to be the armour. Since I can’t get into doctor till next month decided I would stop the armour and just take more synthyroid (I take a combination more armour Less synthroid) so we shall see. Please keep me posted.
I just found a new doctor who will give the Armour. I have wanted to change for a long time. I have been on levothyroxine since 2005. I had never felt right after I ingested the first pill. Ended up with full blown Fibroymylgia in May of 2007. I just started taking the Armour on Feb 22nd. The first day I felt great, but now I feel that my hypo is creaping up on me. I was reading some of the posts and I am going to crush the pill to see if I can get more of the needed hormone in me daily. Maybe my doctor should have weaned me off the levothyroxine while I started to take the Armour. My dose of the levo…was 50mcgs and I have been prescribed 30 mg of Armour. Anyone have any ideas for me? Would love to hear anyones comments. I know that this drug will be better for me, because although my TSH was fine I still had syptoms. And like I said from the very first pill I felt it did my body harm and screwed up my entire endo system. Did or does anyone out there have extreme problems with their sinuses? I hope this stuff gets into my system and soon!
Re: What Thyroid Medication Should I Try?
Hi Catherine, I’m glad you found our thyroid support group. This site was lifesaving for me back when I was on Synthroid and not knowing why I felt so terrible. Now, I am not a physician either, but here’s what I found when I was trying different thyroid medicines. My favorite is the Erfa from Canada. I also like the generic thyroid which is actually called Thyroid NP and the manufacturer of this thyroid medicine is Acella. You have to be very specific though if you want to try the Thyroid NP by Acella. The only place I have been able to get the Thyroid NP is through Walgreens. What Walgreens normally does is that if you have a prescription written for either Armour Thyroid or for Thyroid NP is that they will fill your prescription with the generic Thyroid which is called Thyroid NP. I know it’s kind of confusing!!! You have to make SURE though that they are NOT filling it with the new reformulated Armour as I know many thyroid patients who are NOT doing well on the new Armour Thyroid…just my opinion!!!!
What I asked my doctor to do (it was a tip from this site actually) was to write me a prescription for both the Erfa (and in the Canada pharmacy all the prescription needed to say was Natural Thyroid and be written in grains not mg, and for the Thyroid NP. That way I could try both and didn’t have to wait on the medicine to be shipped from Canada.
I personally think the Thyroid NP is almost as good as the Erfa Thyroid, but my personal preference is for the Erfa. But the Canadian Erfa is definitely more expensive than the Thyroid NP and takes much longer to get because of customs and shipping. So I keep both on hand:-) Hope that helps and if any of this doesn’t make sense or if you have other questions I’d be happy to help so just ask.
Also, please update when you decide what to do and let everyone know what you think of your new thyroid medicine once you start it. We can all learn from each other’s experiences!
Again, glad to have you here on the thyroid support board.
Hi, what a great site! I have found a doc who agreed to switch me to NTH after 12 years on synthetic thyroxine. Which med would you recommend; the reformulated Armour or Erfa? My doctor said I could choose. I’m going back next week to discuss lab results and pick up my prescription. I felt terrible all those years on synthetics and don’t want get more messed up than I already am. Would Erfa be the safest bet?
Re: How to get your Doctor to Listen about Changing Thyroid Medicine
Dear Gwen, I am so sorry you are having such problems with your thyroid. I went through about 3 years of having terrible issues also. And my doctor didn’t believe that Armour had changed or had anything to do with it. Finally after going through a few new doctors I found someone who listened to me and I am not falling asleep for hours in the afternoon. And My hair has quit falling out!!!
In terms of what to do for your appointment tomorrow, here’s a few pointers (just my opinion) –not a doctor or anything, just a thyroid patient!
1) Get copies of your labwork. Do you have your printed lab results? If so, you can post them here and get some feedback on your results. If not, please ask for them tomorrow and keep a binder with all your lab results in there. It will help you to learn and understand more about your thyroid etc.
2) What tests has your doctor done? If they are only doing the TSH this is not adequate. Please let me know what tests your doctor has ordered once you have your lab results, and then you can list the ranges of each test and someone here will give you some help on understanding the ranges and the difference between normal and optimal.
4. (Here’s my minimum for thyroid testing) I would ask your doctor to run all of these tests for you.
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
TPO Antibodies
TG Antibodies
Ferritin, Serum Iron and TIBC
B12
Folate
Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy
CBC with Differential and CMP
5. If there’s a Walgreens in your town and you have refills of the Armour thyroid left, you can go to Walgreens and ask that they fill your prescription with Thyroid NP (this is a version of thyroid medicine which does not have the chalky fillers in it) and for me, the Thyroid NP (by manufacturer Acella) works so much better than the Armour Thyroid. There are tons of thyroid patients that I know who do well using the Acella brand Thyroid NP and that’s one thing you can do without even asking your doctor. (call Walgreens if you have one where you live and ask them if they have the Thyroid NP)
6. You could ask for a prescription for the NatureThroid also at your visit. Some people do fine on it so that’s an option as well.
Hang in there, please post an update after your doctor’s appointment, and if the doctor still won’t listen, you may want to investigate other doctors. It was hard for me to find a good thyroid doctor but once I did—my life get back to normal and I feel like myself again. Don’t give up! Hugs.
I have been on Armour Thyroid for about 8 years. I was diagnosed as hypothyroid about 11 years ago. I had gained 20 pounds in about 6 weeks. I was first given synthroid w/numerous adjustments, which just didn’t work. So after a couple of years of that, I was switched to Armour Thyroid, my lab #’s got better, but I NEVER felt any better & still have not been able to lose any of the 20 pounds I gained!! Now, over the last 12-18 months my hair has started falling out something terrible; my hairdresser & myself seem to agree my hair is almost half as thick as it was over this time frame. I have visited & called my Doctor with my concerns to no avail since my lab results come back within normal range. Over the last 4 months, I have called & voiced my concerns again & they adjusted my dosage 2 different times going from 1 gram tabs 5 X’s a week to now 3 tabs M-W & 1/2 tab on Thursdays. Well, of course I have NOT seen any difference in my hair loss & now feel even worse than before. I found this site and have learned some interesting things, such as this reformulation. I wish I had found this earlier cause I see my doctor tomorrow & would love to have had some advice as to what questions, demands, etc … to pose to him. I will keep tabs to see if someone replies with suggestions as to what I need to do/demand/etc that he do. I’m really interested in this Nature-Throid & if this would be the way to go in asking my doctor if this could work for me? I have also been on other sites where people talk of taking 2 seperate meds a T3 & T4, it’s just so confusing!!
Any insight that someone could send my way before 10 AM EST tomorrow (2/1/12) would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, Gwen
Re: Armour Thyroid Ok for Some Patients, Not for Others
Hi Anna, I’m glad to hear that the Armour thyroid is working for you. According to the manufacturer it has not been reformulated after the initial reformulation, but I know there have been rumors circulating online about this issue. Because everyone is different if the Armour thyroid is working well for you, then I would definitely keep using it. Unfortunately, for many people, the new formula is not doing as well as the old, original Armour thyroid formula. According to pharmacists and other health care professionals, this could very well be because of changes to the actual fillers in the tablets. Because some people’s systems may not be able to utilize the thyroid medication in the Armour thyroid as well due to the new variations in the filler,patients having these issues may have a return of their hypothyroid symptoms.
There are some patients who don’t seem to experience these same problems. Unfortunately, for those of us with thyroid issues, sometimes we may have to try several thyroid medications to find one that works well for us as individuals. If you are feeling well, have energy, and don’t have hypothyroid symptoms, then that is good news. I’m glad you wrote about this because sometimes people are doing fine with the new Armour. But it seems like there also some major problems with the reformulation for many other thyroid patients and that it important to recognize so that anyone having issues with the new Armour doesn’t just accept feeling miserable. Knowing that there are other medications that thyroid patients can try is so important.
I was put on Armour in December 2011. I was terried of taking it, having read so many negative reports about it, but it turned out not to be as bad as some say. It melts under the tongue and does not turn into a chalky paste. I have read elsewhere that Armour was again reformulated in 2011 and wonder if that could in fact be true? Anyway, the pills I have are nothing like the accounts I have read. If anyone knows more about this, I would be very grateful for more info or links to relevant pages.
I was born without my thyroid 29 years ago and I was on Synthroid for 20 years and then asked to change to Armour because it just wasn’t working for me anymore (I don’t know why it stopped working well for me). In 2009 when the shortage came I went back on Synthroid for a bit and felt bad again and when Armour was available again I went back on it and suffered from fatigue, weight gain, my nails would just snap, I couldn’t wear nail polish I was a mess and didn’t understand so I went and asked my pharmacist and he told me it had been reformulated and I was not the only one who weren’t told about it and also who it didn’t suit and so I asked to be put on Nature-throid and luckily my doctor agreed with me. My TSH is good again and I feel good again.
I would not go back on Synthroid again for a million dollars!!!!!!!!
You would think with so many people on Armour it was obviously working for the majority of people that were on it so why have they changed the formula?
I found out 4 months ago that I have an under-active thyroid. I’m also taking Metformin to help also and Birth control pills to help because my hormones are out of wack they said. So I’ve been on these meds for 3 and a half months now. The thyroid Med I’m taking is the Armour Thyroid, Now I was taking 90mg and thought I was doing ok for the first week. Well I went back to feeling sleepy, can’t get up to do anything. I’am always cold and get chills. I don’t get very good sleep and I’m still gaining weight. I asked him and he told me the reason why I’m probably still really tired is because the metformin might be lowering my blood sugar too low and it was at 500 so now I’ve been cutting my pill in half. Been doing that for two weeks now and I’m still feeling the same. They did more blood work and then he dropped me down instead of taking 90mg of the Armour Thyroid, I’m taken 60 mg and I just don’t know what to do with myself. I don’t like being as big as I’m. Have never been this big in my life so I’m not used to it and really don’t like it and i want it off but my question is, is that how long am I supposed to be on this stuff in order for me to go back to normal and actually lost the weight cause I’m still just gaining and still feel the same. I try to do at least 5 times a week for 30 min of working out on my elliptical and I work so I’m on my feet. I’m trying to eat a lot healthier and I’m drinking lots of water. Is there something wrong with the way I’m doing this or do I just need to not eat because l love to work out but I just don’t have the energy and when I do it s like what’s the point., I’m not losing weight from my problem. and it’s making me not want to work out. If there is anyone that could help me and give me some sort of advice that would be so great and I would talk with one of the nurses at my doctors but they never return my calls and the doctor don’t tell me much so other then that. I’m pretty much screwed and just gonna get fatter the way I see it.
I just started reading up on the change in Armour. Around 15 years ago, I had a doctor that changed me to Synthroid after I had taken Armour Thyroid or Natural Thyroid everyday since 1975. I found out I needed it back then because I had all the classic symptoms with one unusual one, I had Alopecia Ariata (not sure that is spelled correctly but phonetically for sure) and after taking natural thyroid meds, I was still borderline. Anyway, we got the strength up to what it should be and I kept taking the 1 grain from 1975 to the change in 1996. I tried to get the doctor to change me back after I noticed I started feeling terrible again, but he assured me Synthroid was the more modern version of the natural hormone therapy I had used to all those years. He said it was my imagination. Well that was at least 50 lbs later and climbing. My imagination? HMMMM. Well, I finally changed doctors and when I did, I asked him if he would prescribe the natural hormone to me again. He was a bit reluctant, but I told him I had taken the natural one for all those years. Actually I was only 24 years old when I had to start on thyroid treatments as I was so tired I thought something was wrong with me and cold all the time. Anyway, to make a long story short. I started on the Armour thyroid and began to feel better again. After the reformulation and it being hard to find Armour I was able to finally get the proper dosage, and started to feel bad again. Anyway, I read about the reformulation and decided I would try the Nature Throid. Well, WalMart told me I needed to get a new prescription and so I did, my doctor just said I needed to have a test at the end of 8 weeks to make sure I was getting the proper dosage in my system. After the first dosage, I can’t tell you how good I feel. I am not tired, I am not cold, I am not feeling crummy as I was starting to feel under the reformulated Armour. Thank goodness, I think I might be getting back to normal. I am upset Armour did all of this without any notification to the doctors or patients. I think I have probably been getting the older pills until recently. Sorry for the length of this, but I had so much to say. Thanks for all the education on these two drugs too! One other point, I can think more clearly, that began today with the first dose! Color me HAPPY!!
I am taking the generic Armour, Thyroid NP — Acella Pharmaceuticals — and I find it better than the reformulated Armour. Walgreens switched me without telling me and I discovered it much later. I was angry at first, but after a few days I felt better on this generic than the Armour thyroid medicine.
After having my thyroid removed in 1972 I began taking Armour Thyroid 3gr daily. Armour always worked for me and I had lived a productive life, for the most part. I say that because over the years I have had Dr refuse to Rx desicated thyroid and was put through months of hell on synthetics. I have fired more Dr’s than most folks will ever see. In 2009 I started to fell “not well”. I lost my job around the same time and thought it was stress related. Not having insurance and limited funds I was forced to go to a clinic. I had to literally beg for the Armour Rx. My symptoms were so severe I couldn’t drive, I didn’t feel right in my head and feared my reactions would be slow or inadequate. I fell several times for no reason, once off a ladder and broke my clavical. I did not gain weight like many others but I was so fatigued I wasn’t eating. I began to experience heart palpatations and was hospitalized when I finally went to the ER, I really thought I was having a heart attack, I was diagnosed with Atrial Fibralation and put on a medication for high blood pressure, I had and still have low blood pressure. I subsequently applied for disability and was approved in 4 months! I am sure the rapid approval was due to the fact that all of the doctors I saw thought I was mentally unstable….depressed, stressed, not accepting of the changes of age! I finally found a site online and was both outraged and relieved to find there are so many others out there who have been negatively affected by the changes in Armour Thyroid, I did discover on this site that I could purchase Nature-Throid from a pharmacy on line without a script. I should mention here that the clinic Dr’s reduced my dosage of Armour because my TSH was “too low”. I have no gland and it is supposed to be low…I purchased the online Nature-Throid and have been getting better ever since, it has been 10 weeks, I am not back to normal yet, I have lost so much muscle mass it will talk awhile to get where I need to be. I recently sold the last of what I had to sell in order to pay a Dr. I had very high hopes for this Dr and he did Rx Natur-Throid and understood my need for dessicated thyroid, However: After my labs came back he insisted I go back on Armour because my Free T3 is high. He then told me that Armour is now back to the original formula. I can’t find anything online stating that it has. This is just so wrong, from Dr’s being uninformed or misinformed, to pharmacutical companies changing something and not telling anyone. Something needs to change.
Carol Whitley
Very frustrating to find out the manufacturers can change the make up with out any notification to those of us who depended on Armour Thyroid. I had all the same unbearable symptoms return almost immediately when the formula for Armour Thyroid changed. I panicked. With a week of extensive research I discovered that I could get the old formula of Armour Thyroid made for me by a compound pharmacy. The next hurdle was to find a Dr. that would prescribe the P Armour Thyroid (compound of old formula). My Dr insisted that the formula change would NOT bring on any of my old symptoms from hypo-thyroid. Very frustrating when my own Dr. won’t listen to what I am telling him and worse, refuse to give me a prescription for the P Armour Thyroid. Next hurdle… find a new Dr. Finally after 6 weeks I was able to find a new Dr who listened to me, took the time to educate himself regarding the Armour Thyroid reformulation and give me my prescription which the Women’s International Pharmacy in Madison WI gave me the compound px for armour and my life back!! Thank God for the internet! I would have never been able to solve my problem with out it.
I am going to try the generic Brand Armour Thyroid NP. I hope it is better I have all the symptoms I read here thought i was loosing my mind. every since I started Armour 7 months ago..Horrible metal taste in my mouth, my shoulders ache, my eyes burn, very tired all the time even if I sleep all night, I am so glad I found this site
Pam, thank you so much for your response. I just called the Walgreens Pharmacy by me and they carry it and they are able to transfer my prescription. When I called my doctor to discuss the side effects, I had to leave a message and got a call back from the receptionist wanting to know what I wanted to do, and then she told me that if I have side effects, to quit taking it, but that she would pass along my message to the doctor. I got no response from the doctor, which makes me wonder if the call went through. Either way, when I quit taking the Armour, I returned to the Synthroid and my side effects as far as the headache and the leg pains went away.
I am so glad that I found this site! I have found the information useful and it’s nice to know that I’m not alone with all of the side effects and frustrations. I will look into the books- I like being well informed and I have blood work scheduled for a few weeks!
I’m excited to pick up the prescription after work and see how it goes, it seems like everyone has had better results with the generic formula and it seems easier than ordering from Canada!
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!!!
Colleen, Your story sounds so familiar….I was in almost the same situation as you are except I’m older and was training for a 1/2 marathon:-) The trouble as I’m sure you’ve read by now with the Synthroid is that it only has T4 in it. I learned about T4 from Bethanie here on this site and she explained that the T4 is the inactive hormone and it has to be converted into T3 which is the hormone that gives us the energy to power through our day. Since learning about that from this site I’ve read some other books written by physicians like Dr. Broda Barnes, and some other very progressive doctors and it all makes sense to me now. The trouble with Armour is that although yes, it contains the T3 and the T4 —it was changed a few years back and it’s no longer as effective because the company manufacturing it changed the fillers in it. So, one quick way to see if you feel better is to go to a Walgreens pharmacy if you have one where you live and ask them to fill your prescription (or refill it) with Thyroid NP. It is the newer generic “Armour” but is a different manufacturer. It does not have cellulose in it and it changed my life for the better. There are other options of getting a thyroid med with T3 and T4 in it including ordering the one from Canada, but the Thyroid NP is the least expensive and probably easiest one to start with and I’ve tried them all and like it the best. Please keep us updated on your progress and how you’re feeling.
I have been reading everyone’s comments regarding Armour Thyroid, after stumbling on this site. I went back to the Dr. last week with my list of complaints- intolerance to cold-severe to the point that my skin literally hurt, weight gain, fatigue, depression (moodiness). I was frustrated because I had cut out everything that she told me to, I was eating better, drinking water, cut out sodas, and I am training for a marathon- I continue to gain weight. I was previously on 175mg of Synthroid and Vitamin D deficient, so taking D3 replacement, along with fish oil, multivitamin, COQ10, and a pro biotic. Fully expecting the Dr. to take blood work and do a full panel. Well, she barely saw me, and was going based on what I had talked with the nurse about my symptoms. She went based on the blood work from February and decided to switch me from Synthroid to Armour Thyroid- I was ok with this, because I had read things online and from Mary Doman’s thyroid diet book. She is bringing me back in 4 weeks for blood work- a full panel, T3′s and T4′s lipids and cortisol, but I think that it needs to be done sooner rather than later. She did also mention that she had been under medicating me, realizing after consulting with colleagues and learning about the thyroid herself, that yes, my levels were in a normal range for someone who does not have a thyroid problem. BTW, I am 29, healthy otherwise and active.
Well, I’ve been on Armour Thyroid for a week and I can say that I have never had symptoms like this, they are horrible. I am having the worst pain in my legs, they hurt and they are stiff, it reminds me of the pain that results from running too much or a hard work out consisting of leg exercises and squats. I am shaky, I’ve had a constant headache for 4 days, fatigued. I’ve never been so sluggish- I haven’t run since Saturday, I don’t have the energy. I’ve started to notice that my hair is falling out, and it’s like I’m falling into a deep depression- I look in the mirror and I don’t recognize the person that is looking back at me. I am so emotional and I just want to go home and pull the covers over my head.
I called this morning and left a message for the Dr. and I am waiting to hear back. I really like my Dr. but feel that it could be time to ask for a referral to an endocrinologist.
Thoughts?
Since Armour has changed, I have been having old symptoms return. Water weight gain, “foggy” thinking, muscle aches, NO desire to do routine exercising although I have for years, and, of course, the loss of hair on the crown of my head. Coincidence or not, I have had unusual cysts popping up along my leg bones which come and go since I switched back. The doctors are not sure what that is; however they started soon after I switched back to United States Armour (I went internationally to find mine while there was a shortage since the temporary replacement quickly threw me off kilter). I have been retested and everything says my thyroid levels are good…This morning (July 2011) I woke up feeling so bad that I googled armour thyroid to see if there was anything amiss since Forest Laboratories started making it again. I am not a happy with the results I have found and I believe I will choose to pay a little more again for my international script to be refilled.
Strange TSH Happenings
Hi All, I have never posted on this forum but am having confusing things happen with my TSH. I’ll explain briefly: Last November my TSH was 32 so my NEW doctor prescribed me 90 gr of Armour which she said was the Synthroid dose equivalent. My TSH remained unchanged 8 weeks later so she upped my dose to 110 but I took it upon myself to take 125 because I could tell by the way I was feeling that I needed more.
10 weeks go by and my TSH dropped to 10.03 which is great! The Doc upped my dose to 150 and we thought I was going to be in good shape but recent blood tests showed my TSH at 10.78. Is this because of the re-formulation of Armour? I’m now on 180gr even though I’m petite (5’3″ 110 lbs). So, even though Armour has re-formulated, will I eventually re-stabilize at a higher dose?
I should say that I don’t have a thyroid because of cancer in 2007 and have been through hell and 3 doctors trying to feel “normal” again. I don’t mind messing around with the Armour as long as I know a higher dose will eventually work.
Thank you all in advance for your comments and shared experiences.
Re: Generic Thyroid
Hi Von, I agree with you. The generic type of Synthroid probably isn’t a good idea especially for any of us who need both the Free T3 and the Free T4 like in Natural Thyroid. It’s taken a while for me but I am slowly, slowly recovering I think. Finally, I am able to do activities like I used to do before having all these problems with my thyroid and finding a replacement for the Armour thyroid medicine. My doctor also said now that my dose of the Acella Thyroid was too low and so it was bumped up by 1/2 of a grain. That seems to have given me more strength to not only just survive the day but actually enjoy some things again. What a relief!
And Von, I know how hard it is to focus on anything else, including relationships when we are just feeling run down etc. My DH and I used to go out and participate in activities: skiing in the winter, boating in the summer, and dancing year round. But until recently, I didn’t want or have the energy to do anything. So I know how hard it is and good for you for pushing through.
I would really be interested in hearing what you find out about the hyperbaric oxygen therapy. That sounds very interesting. If you have a chance please share how the new doctor evaluates you for it if you thought it helped and how long you had to be in the oxygen chamber or whatever it is called.
Through all of this at least I know there’s someone here that will understand. My DH didn’t know why his wife when I was on the Armour didn’t want to go out, do anything, or participate in any activities. He’s learning, but if you haven’t ever been through it yourself I don’t think someone without thyroid issues can understand.
Thank you Von, and everyone else here for being my support system. I truly appreciate everyone here:-)
Katie, Candace, I’ve always read that taking the generic of Synthroid is not a good idea. I think I’ll ask the doc to try the new Acella. I go to a new doc tomorrow to check on hyperbaric oxygen therapy for Lyme/candida. I hope it won’t be a waste of money.
Candace, I have trouble with relationships as well. I’m dating, and I really have to push myself to even go on the dates. A part of me wants to just stay home and watch movies — no hassle or expectations, It’s hard to try to function at full capacity when feeling subpar. People don’t understand, and I hate to be a quitter, so I push myself.
Perhaps I’ll find new and helpful information tomorrow.. Good luck to all
Von
I agree with the difference between synthetic (levothyroxine) and natural armour thyroid. I had been taking Armour prescribed from a doctor in California for 2-3 years. Then I moved to Oregon and got a new doctor who was insistent that the generic brand of Synthroid and Levoxyl which is Levothyroxine was better in the long term, especially because at the time there was still a shortage of trying to get my prescription of armour. However, this doctor did not take into account that my body has difficulty transferring the T4 in Levothyroxine to T3 when it enters my body. Therefore, I still had the symptoms of Hypothyroidism. The doctor also never tested my blood except one time when he switched me to Levothyroxine back in October, 8 months ago. I am now trying to get into an Endocrinologist in Oregon who will be able to put me on the right medication and regulate it by testing the blood levels every 2-4 months. When I was on Armour Thyroid, I had no symptoms of Hypothyroidism at all and they all came back on the Levothyroxine.
Von, I can relate to what your describing about having troubles with the new Armour. I too, had major, major problems. Weight gain, headaches, hair falling out, not able to do my yoga class. It started interfering with my marriage because I was not able to go out with the family or keep up with alot of my responsibilities around the house.
Synthroid for me is just awful too. I can’t take it. I wonder if you could try the new Generic Thryoid made by Acella. It reminds me of the old Armour, and according to some of the ladies here, it doesn’t have any cellulose. Which makes sense because it just dissolves very quickly and easily when I take it sublingually. I am doing so much better since switching from the new Armour to the generic Thyroid. You can get it filled using an Armour prescription, you just have to use Walgreens or a pharmacy that carries it and ask for them to look it up by the word “Thyroid” and then have them verify you are getting Acella brand. It is so upsetting I know to go through all these hassles with getting the right medicine. I hope you can get something else soon.
Hello to all. I have not posted in a long time. I, too, had a problem with the new Armour — headaches, weight gain, fatigue and weakness, etc. I was doing fine for several months, though, and then I guess it caught up with me. My doctor allowed me to try the Canadian Thyroid, and so I got a little better and finally lost some of the weight I had put on. I don’t think the Canadian brand did as well for me as the old Armour, but I believe it’s better than Synthroid alone. However, when I went to my doctor recently, he said I had gotten a bad batch of Armour and directed me to a different pharmacy. I was doubtful, but I gave it a try. I took it for about a week — I lose track of time — and I finally gave up. The last two days I took the old Synthroid I had on hand to substitute for the Armour and today ordered a refill of the ERFA Thyroid. For a few years now, I’ve been taking Synthroid and Armour. I think Forest Labs probably had changed their formula sometime in the more distant past also and that’s why I had to start taking Synthroid along with the Armour. Maybe not. Just a thought. Anyway, this thyroid thing has me really puzzled this time.
To complicate matters, I also have chronic Lyme and candida, both of which have similar symptoms to hypothyroidism. The candida and whatever other damage I have to my intestines flared up because of the antibiotics I’ve been taking on an empty stomach, which is what the prescription bottles said to do. My doctor told me to never do that. So now I have to wait for my stomach to heal before resuming the antibiotics. I’m also taking a candida cleanse, which I know can produce die-off and symptoms from that, but my dilemma now is that I don’t know what’s causing what, whether it’s the thyorid meds, flareup of the Lyme or candida. I have no energy and have the puffy eyes and look very tired and feel sick. In addition to the above, I have weak adrenals and am taking prescription hydrocortisone for that, which encourages candida. As you know, thyroid meds won’t work with weak adrenals. I was doing much better with the Lyme until I started having problems with the Armour. Now I can’t seem to get it under control. Sometimes I just want to give up. I have read book after book on thyroid, adrenals, candida, Lyme, hormones, and now oxygen therapy. I am supposed to start hyperbaric oxygen treatment as soon as my doctor gets it set up.
You may ask what my blood tests show. We haven’t done any recently. My insurance has a high deductible, and since I’m one of the unfortunate ones whose blood tests didn’t show elevated TSH or abnormal T3, T4 when I was diagnosed cllinically (with goiter and strong family history, the works), I don’t expect blood tests to necessarily give an accurate picture of what’s going on. I have read that that is often the case. My doctor is an M.D. but uses muscle testing a lot, which in the past has been on target with blood tests when they were done. That’s how he determined I had gotten a bad batch of Armour. I really think he’s having a hard time giving up on Armour, so he may not be totally neutral when he tests me.
Forgive me for this being so long. I’m at my wit’s end. I am single (and a young 60, which I have trouble saying) and totally dependent on my income from self-employment, which is getting harder and harder to keep up with although business has been slow. I HAVE to do something. I am also already taking Vit D3, although there is something called the Marshall Protocol that suggest people with any type of cell-wall-deficient bacteria like Lyme should not take Vit D. This requires further investigation. I also take iron, B 100 complex, lots of Vit C, magnesium, probiotics, molybdenum, and probably others I can’t think of right now. Oh, I take Phytomega, a great fish oil product from Melaleuca that helps control cholesterol and triglycerides, as well as being good for cardiovascular, and also their Provex CV, a powerful antioxidant formula that I am convinced helps with my flu-like symptoms. BTW, for those who have trouble taking fish oil capsules, Barleans makes a delicious liquid formula with different flavors.
I don’t think anyone can really help with all this, but I guess I needed to vent. I really try so hard and study all I can to try to help myself. Having the brain fog doesn’t help me in following through on things, though. I guess I will spend a lot of money trying to get answers somehow. A local naturopathic doctor offers an electrodermal type test that is supposed to give a good picture of problem areas, so I may resort to that. It’s $145. Hyperbaric oxygen is around $112 a week, for six weeks at least. I really do cost too much these days.
If anyone has any good ideas, I’m always open to suggestion. I wish everyone the best of health and good times ahead. No one understands all this unless they’ve gone through it.
What is so suprising to me is that even with all the information that’s out there about Armour thyroid not working well–doctors are still prescribing it. Especially for thyroid patients who haven’t tried natural thyroid meds before–why aren’t physicians going first to either Naturethroid or the new generic made by Acella?
TSH is 25 With Armour
Hello other thyroid patients, I know some of you can relate to what I’m going through. My doctor didn’t want to change my thyroid medicine and I just got the results back from my recent labs. My TSH is 25 on the new Armour. My thyroid was removed last fall and initially I was on Synthroid, but that didn’t go well. Then I was switched to Armour and felt much better quickly. But I got probably just a bit hyper on 2 grains of Armour, so my doctor changed my dose to 1.5 grains. My TSH is now at 25. I didn’t even get an immediate response from my doctor’s office because she thought the labs were off, and she re-ran them a 2nd time. This is the 2nd time they were run. I guess when the problem first came up my TSH was 27. I’m totally exhausted and can’t even think straight.
RE: Changing from Armour Thyroid
Cherie, could you please let me know if you were able to get your doctor to switch your prescription for your thyroid medication from the new Armour to Naturethroid? If so, what did you say when asking about this? My doctor isn’t very understanding so I’m trying to get all the tips I can before even approaching him about changing thyroid meds. I am using an HMO so it’s not always an easy process to change docs. Thanks for your help everyone.
Cherie, thank you for your support and kind words. It is sometimes so hard to get through all of this. I could never have imagined having thyroid problems would be so hard to fix. But I will get through this. Your support means more than you know.
To Nina:
Hi Nina – change doctors ASAP! When you interview new doctors, let them know which medication you would like to try and if they tell you no, keep on looking. I have found some great doctors this way. Remember – they work for you. You do not work for them!! Best of Luck.
Cheri
Doctor Appointment Did Not Go Well
Hi everyone, I’m just frustrated today because I saw my doctor this morning. He said all I need to do is to exercise more and eat less and that will help my fatigue, dizziness, weakness, etc. I’ve really tried–I’m serious. I’ve done everything I’ve been asked to do and I still feel so run down. I am on Armour and no one seems to want to help me change that to see if I could be helped. Why does this have to be so difficult to get doctors who understand thyroid issues?
After Armour was changed my TSH soared up very high. My physician wanted to put me on Synthroid. That was a big mistake. I gained weight, felt so bad, and literally could not remember what I was doing half of the time. Now I am on Erfa and it has really made a tremendous difference for me. I know I have to have a thyroid medicine which has both the T3 and the T4 in it to function.
So many thyroid patients having problems with the new Armour. If there’s any support or help I can provide, please don’t keep taking something if it’s making you feel worse! I was panicked after the Armour changed and spent a few years going nowhere because I was still hypothyroid. Naturethroid works fine for me but I’ve also tried the newer generic Acella thyroid, and I like it as well or maybe even a tiny bit better than the NT. My cholesterol has gone down over 67 points on the NT. I’ve only been on the Acella for a week so can’t really give that credit for the cholesterol reduction.
Re: Armour changing their formula
For a very long time being on the new Armour has been awful for my life too. I kept thinking I was very ill. But there wasn’t anyone who could help me figure out why I felt so terrible. Until I found out that there was a chance in the medicine! I still would like to know why isn’t this information sent out to the doctors? And how come my pharmacist never mentioned it to me?
I had tons of problems on the new Armour. And my mom who is also a thyroid patient almost ended up in the hospital after the change of formula. It was terrible. She is now taking Naturethroid and I am on Erfa. But maybe I will try either Naturethroid or the other generic thyroid medicine (The Acella thyroid) because there could be strikes with the Canadian postal service. It already takes so long to get the Erfa that I don’t want to wait longer.
Re: Changing to NatureThroid or Erfa from Armour
Bonnie, there are many of us who could not tolerate the revised Armour thyroid. Do you have a list of symptoms that are the most bothersome to you? What are your recent labs? I like both NatureThroid and the new generic thyroid you can get here in the US.
I’d also like to know what everyone would suggest when trying to transition away from Armour thyroid if one has been on it for more than 10 years. I was thinking about asking for Naturethroid but maybe I should try Erfa or the US generic?
I was on Synthroid for 4 months after my total thyroidectomy and felt awful. I was switched to Armour in December and started to feel better in days. I was out walking, my pain decreased, and I could think clearly again. I thought I had finally conquered my thyroid disease. In February, my thyroid labs looked great. They were slightly hyper, and my doc decided to lower my dose from 120 mg to 90. A month later, my TSH skyrocketed to 29, and I was barely getting out of bed. My dose was increased to 105 mg, and a month later my TSH is still 23. I can’t function like this. I have been on 120 mg for a week now and I feel no better. I refuse to go back to synthroid. I need to find a dessicated thyroid medication that works.
Is anyone seeing a Naturopath for their thyroid issues?
I went last week to a naturopath last week and it was a really good visit. He spent a lot of time with me and we talked about why sometimes people feel terrible when taking synthetic thyroid medications. He explained that some people simply do not convert T4 to T3 and so even if our TSH is “normal” we can feel quite badly. He told me to test my adrenals and also I will be doing an iron panel.
Oh, and he said even though you may test negative for Celiac, many thyroid patients will do better on gluten free diets.
Re: Doctor Won’t Give Me Armour Thyroid
Cheri and Jenna, I really appreciate your writing back to let me know about the Armour Thyroid. I’m just wondering what I should ask for or do now. Cheri, does your doctor talk to you about the problems with your hair, feeling horrible, and bloating? I’m having some of the same things happen to me and really, really want to avoid the synthetic thyroid meds. Do you think you’re going to be able to switch to some other natural thyroid? It’s upsetting to hear that you and others are also having these problems.
Re: Armour Thyroid Medication is not like the old one
I know exactly what you mean when saying that Armour thyroid is not like it used to be. My hair would fall out in the shower. My husband would always ask why I was “shedding”. It was so embarrassing. It was horrible.
About 5 weeks ago though I started taking the generic thyroid. It is also a natural dessicated thyroid–so it’s not synthetic. It’s still fairly soon to tell if the improvements will last, but I really like the Acella Thyroid. It was a hassle trying to get the pharmacy to give me the right kind. Anyone needing more info, please just ask and I’ll share. But once I got my thyroid meds switched from the new Armour to Acella Thyroid, I am not losing so much hair and I feel much better.
The new Armour is NOT the same med it once was. I am bloating rapidly, losing massive amounts of hair and feel worse on this than on nothing at all! What a shame! SHAME SHAME on the makers of Armour that had so many people relying on their “old formulation” returning.
I asked my doctor for Amour thyroid and he won’t give me a prescription for it. He says Synthroid is better. But I’ve been taking Synthroid for 8 months now and things are not improving. What can I do?
Re: Types of Vitamin D and Why D3 is Better than D2
Why we should not be taking prescription, (synthetic Vitamin D2).
Hi Sandra, here are some studies that one of the other ladies on the board pulled together for me.
“cholecalciferol (vitamin D3) is substantially more potent than ergocalciferol (vitamin D2).” ‘Vitamin D in Health and Disease’ Heaney, RP
“Vitamin D2, or ergocalciferol, should not be regarded as a nutrient suitable for supplementation or fortification.” From ‘The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin supplement’. Houghton LA, Vieth R.
“Vitamin D2 should not be regarded anymore as suitable for supplementation or fortification.” From ‘Vitamin D2 or vitamin D3?’ Mistretta, VI et al
“D2 (ergocalciferol) has lower bioactivity, poorer stability, and shorter duration of action, resulting in approximately 33% lower potency compared with vitamin D3” From ‘The Value of Vitamin D3 over Vitamin D2 in Older Persons’ Barbara J. Zarowitz PharmD, FCCP, BCPS, CGP, FASCP
“Vitamin D2 is only about 20-40% as effective as cholecalciferol …” Michael F. Holick, ‘The Vitamin D Epidemic and its Health Consequences”
A 23 level of Vitamin D is quite low, the range usually is up to 100, but each lab can vary a bit. Still not sure that taking 2 pills of 25,000 iu a week is the best thing (but I’m not a doctor). Just know that many of them are not that informed about Vitamin D and which type, so we can’t always expect that they are all up to date with the proper dosing etc.
Because Vitamin D isn’t all absorbed, then it would make more sense if you could find a doctor to ok 10,000 iu per day. I can tell you that the 10,000 iu a day is the standard dose for someone whose Vitamin D is as low as yours who would be seeing a more holistic type MD, or what’s known as a functional medicine practitoner. I like the Biotics Research brand liquid http://www.hospitalsoup.com/vitamind3 was also recommended to take this from several pharmacists and a very good doctor. He says the liquid is the best –because again of the absorption issue and this one that I listed has the better D3 in it.
On the thyroid generic, yes it has the same ingredient in it (the natural dessicated thyroid hormone) like the expensive compounded type, (*but all of the Natural Thyroid Brands have natural dessicated thyroid hormone in them—that’s the hormone in it that makes it work)
The Nice thing about the generic is that it’s not expensive. A lady just wrote in and said she spent a little over 11 dollars for a 3 month supply. So that was very affordable. The Naturethroid is not expensive either. What gets confusing sometimes is that if you go to a compounding pharmacy and have it compounded, then they take the same powder that the other brands use to make their tablets, but instead of getting a mass produced tablet, a person has to measure out each dose and ‘hand make’ if you will the capsules. Also, if the doctor wanted a different dose let’s say of T3/vs T4 he/she could order it that way from the compounding pharmacy and it could be customized. Unlike the other tablets like Naturethroid, Armour, or even the new Generic where they all basically have the same dose for each tablet we take.
The cinnamon for sure should help your blood sugar. It just won’t by itself drop your weight. Having the correct thyroid dose and thyroid medication however, can change one’s weight. Because if we’re on too low of a dose or not enough thyroid medication, then our metabolism can just stall, which makes it very difficult to lose a pound. Too much thyroid hormone is not a good thing either, so it’s a fine line.
Watch out for endos who treat you solely by the numbers. First of all numbers are only one part of it, and again, sometimes they’re numbers (what they think is normal) is not really optimal. One lady here also just turned 50 last summer. She worked out, ate cleanly, and could not lose a pound. When she finally got her thyroid dose correct she is doing the same thing. Actually probably working out less now, (she doesn’t have to work at 150% each time whe works out) and she’s lost over 25 pounds and several dress sizes. She is getting TONS of compliments and looks younger, and she’s not changed anything–except to really fix her thyroid. So it can be done!
How was your weekend and have you tried the cinnamon and noticed any difference in maybe your blood sugar levels or anything? Ie: feeling less shaky in between meals or anything like that?
Hi Carin,
I didn’t get my results in the mail yet; however, the doctor told me that my Vitamin D was 23? I have no idea how low that is without a range. And yes, my Vitamin D was a prescription, green gel pills. I am anxious to read the research on D2 vs. D3.
On the brighter side, my thyroid readings have been good. Right now, since those levels are good, I am going to stick with the NatureThroid. The “thyroid” generic you speak of…..is the same ingredient that the compounding pharmacy uses that I went to when Armour was hard to get. They came in a capsule form and cost 3x the amount of NatureThroid or Armour. I wonder what the price from Acella is for their version?
Thanks for your opinion on the cinnamon. The endo said (even though all my numbers were good) that he still feels that I am insulin resistant and need to cut the carbs. So I have really cut them down and began the cinnamon. We shall see. I just turned 45 and want to shed this weight that has been creeping up on me for the past several years—since being dx with hypothyroidism!
As always, I look forward to your response about the Vitamin D!
Re: Vitamin D and Weight Loss
Hi Sandra, I just logged on to check to see if anyone posted anything this afternoon about thyroid issues and was so pleased to see your message. Welcome back, but I’m so sorry that you’ve had to be out there dealing with an endo. Oh my goodness when I read your story it brought back memories for me. Bad ones too…the endos for some reason must all learn to be arrogant during their education–if they’re not that way already. It is so hard sometimes to listen to them.
Regarding the Vitamin D, yes it is true that being deficient in Vitamin D can make it more difficult to lose weight. Vitamin D is involved in metabolism, as is magnesium. I didn’t go back to read your previous posts yet so I can’t remember if we talked about magnesium, but if not, let me know and we can discuss it.
However, I will caution you that if you’re taking 50,000 iu of Vitamin D they probably gave you a prescription which you do not want to use. This is one case where over the counter (what you want is D3 NOT D2 is a much better supplement/medication). Dr. OZ says we should take D2, so does Andrew Weil, MD, as well as the Vitamin D Council. Some docs are just clueless about this and get out their prescription pad and write it for Vitamin D2—the prescription. There was another lady who posted some research on one of the other boards here. I’ll grab it later and post it for you citing research that tells why D3 (over the counter) is much better than D2 (prescription).
Exactly how low were your levels of Vitamin D? Numbers please along with your lab’s ranges.
Cinnamon can be used to keep blood sugar levels stable so for people who get blood sugar spikes it can help. In terms of causing you to lose weight directly–probably not, but indirectly keeping your blood sugar stable, this is a good thing. You can use regular cinnamon and put it in coffee or in foods you bake or eat or on cereal etc.
And I still wonder if you’re able to absorb the NatureThroid. I like it a lot and still think it works for most people but I wonder if the cellulose in it is giving you a hard time. Maybe you could ask your the doctor whose willing to work with you for a prescription of just Thyroid (there is a new generic one that just came out). Walgreens is the only place you can get it but it is a natural dessicated thyroid medicine that does not have cellulose in it. It’s just called ‘Thyroid’ but is manufactured by Acella—so you have to ask Walgreens for that particular brand. Some say that this works like the old Armour. I haven’t tried it so I don’t know, but I do like that it has no cellulose in it.
Hi all,
I haven’t been here for awhile, but I wanted some perspective. I recently was finally diagnosed with Hashiomoto’s. I have taken Synthroid, Armour (old), and now Naturethroid over the past 6 six years. Was having alot of ups and downs…hence the reason I wanted to now if I had Hashimotos….indeed I do. I go to a MD/ND who has been more than willing to try different things. Since the Hashiomotos, I decided to go to an endocrinologist (for a second opinion). The doc was an arrogant jerk and I left there humilitated and worried. He told me that my weight issue was not caused by my thyroid but I had OTHER things going on. After being checked for diabetes, PCOS, Cushings, and other metabolic stuff, the tests came back that I am severely deficient in Vitamin D. Started 50,000 iu twice per week. That seems like an awful lot! Anybody here on Vitamin D and has it made any noticeable difference (weight, pain, etc.) Also, I just read an article about taking Cinnamon pills for weight loss…..has nobody used these pills?
Re: changing over from Armour Thyroid to Something Else
Hi, I changed from the new Armour Thryoid to Naturethroid too. Went from 1 grain to 2 grains, but I think I would’ve needed an increase anyway because my dose was too low. I feel much, much better now and am happy that I made the switch. I am also taking iron tablets because my doctor said my ferritin was too low.
Re: Questions on Switching from Armour to NatureThroid
Hi Jessica, I’m a recent “convert” I guess you’d say changing from the new Armour to Naturethroid. Things at first for me were a bit bumpy but my doctor did increase my dose and now I’m feeling good again. Hadn’t felt well at all with the new Armour.
Here’s some answers to your questions
a) Did I have to increase dose? A: yes
b) How much increase of a dose A: from 2.5 grains to 3 grains a day
c) Feeling same, better or worse A: I’m feeling better since making the change. I think I could’ve not had good results if I didn’t have a good doctor who was willing to try me on a higher dose.
But overall this is much better than the new Armour. I could just never feel very well on the Armour since it was changed.
Hi to all of you all who are also thyroid patients! I was hoping that someone here could help me. I have a question regarding any of you who may have switched to NatureThroid from the new Armour Thyroid medicine.
If you changed to NatureThroid from the new Armour, did you have to increase your dose?
If you did increase your dose–how much more NatureThroid are you having to take?
Are you feeling a) the same b) worse or c) better since switching to NatureThroid?
Then finally, do you feel like you do better taking the thyroid medication sublingually?
Thank you so much to everyone who has provided such great support. I’ve been just reading for a while and haven’t posted, but I’m thinking it’s time for me to possibly try to change my medicine and thought I’d get some input from some of you who have already done that and who may be able to help me. Thank you!
Re: Trying Some Other Thyroid Medicine
Sydney, I’m very happy to have found your message. And whew–what a relief it must be for you to have found a different thyroid prescription that does work! Oh, how I hope this will happen for me too. I was on the old Armour–this was a great medicine,then they changed it. I had lots of things going wrong in my body when on the new Armour. So I have tried compounded natural thyroid and not having good results either.
Now I am discouraged but happened to come online and find your message. So today I will see if I can get some of the new Thyroid medication that you are using to see if it will help. Thank you for being so kind to share.
The new Armour has caused me nothing but heartache and grief! It has been such a nightmare trying to convince my doctor that it is not my imagination–but that the Armour now doesn’t work any longer. Finally, I am getting somewhere and making progress. I went to Walgreens and asked for the new generic thyroid medicine. At first, the pharmacist said they didn’t have it –or couldn’t find it but I pressed them to keep looking and then he found it in their system. He was able to fill my Armour prescription with the new generic Thyroid. It is still a natural thyroid medicine so no worries there. I wasn’t sure what to expect but it’s been two days now and all I can say is “Wow”. I’m sure that it will just get better but already, what a big improvement. So much for doctor’s always knowing about these thyroid things… I just wanted to give someone else encouragement to keep on trying if one thyroid medicine doesn’t work. Don’t just quit or give up, try something else!
Nothing I have tried with the new Armour Thyroid is working. I am on the Naturethroid and it’s only been since late last week since I tried it, but I am feeling so so much better. In fact the first day when I took it it was like my brain wasn’t so foggy with the Naturethroid
Question on Where to Get Naturethroid Thyroid Prescription Filled
Hi all, Could anyone tell me if they are able to get their Naturethroid prescription filled at either Sams Club or Costco? Thanks!
Re: Free T3 and Free T4
Hi Karen, You’re so welcome—I really enjoy talking with you and hearing updates on how things are going. Re: the blackouts–that was really strange. Good thing we had some wood available although we hadn’t used the fireplace in a long time. I hope your snow is gone soon—instead of a rain dance maybe we should all do a “let’s have Spring Soon dance”…… We’re getting a wintry mix again today…. (Sigh)
Stay safe, dry and warm Karen, and keep me updated on how things go. And remember on the lab values, those are important to note but as important is how you feel and your symptoms–so don’t discount the signs and symptoms your body tells you:-)
Thank you SO much Bethanie! I will be making an appointment to see about getting on Natural Dessicated. Your guidelines will give me an idea of where I need to be on FT3 & FT4.
Hope all is well with you! I can’t believe that you all had blackouts. Frozen pipes are the worst. We got snow yesterday & again tomorrow. Will Old Man Winter go away? Please.
Thanks!!!!
Re: Where Should Free T3 and Free T4 Be?
Hi Karen, The whole state had rolling blackouts last week so I’m slow in replying. Apologize for that. Then once the power did come back on it seems like my entire neighborhood was at Home Depot getting replacement pipes because everyone was having to fix broken pipes etc. Talk about a mess!
Regarding your question about Free T3 and Free T4. You want Free T3 at the TOP of the range, (really top end of normal for most people is where they feel best) and Free T4 about mid range is usually good. Vitamin D should be at 70% of the upper end of normal, most of the holistic docs that I went to like to see that around 70 or so, depending upon the lab’s ranges.
And, keep in mind that those numbers are just a guideline as to where most people will do best. The other, super important thing is to also see how you feel and take note of things like excessive hair loss, tiredness, foggy thinking, weight gain/loss, heart palpitations, what your vital signs are, etc. Before we even had tests like thyroid testing doctors used to dose thyroid medication based upon the patient’s symptoms… And their vital signs etc.
But your doctor is correct in that too much Vitamin D can be toxic. But too much would be above the range for what’s normal, or if someone’s supplementing to have their Vitamin D at the very tip top of the range. Then you’d want to back up supplementing. With Vitamin D it’s fairly easy to know— you have to retest periodically and if you’re supplementing now and haven’t re-tested, then you’d want to test again, see where you are and possibly adjust your dose depending upon what the resuls say. Some people who get their Vitamin D levels where they need to be find that they can either reduce their dose significantly, and/or take it every other day or every 3rd day. This part should be checked because unlike the thyroid, Vitamin D isn’t dosed partly upon how you feel–it’s dosed by the numbers. There’s just a bit of debate among some medical professionals where those numbers need to be.
So Back to the thyroid. The levels I mentioned for the Free T3 and Free T4 are guidelines also. Your doctor should be telling you and guiding you on how to recognize symptoms of being either hyper thyroid – having too much medication or too little. Sometimes it’s a bit challening at first to tell because sometimes either exteme will make us feel terrible.
Let me know if you’d like me to go into more detail about this. The other really, really important thing is that if you are going to switch from the Synthroid, which has only T4 in it, to a natural dessicated thyroid then your doctor would need to either start you on a very tiny dose of Cytomel with it, or even try just natural dessicated thyroid first to see how you do and then add in a bit of Cytomel if needed to get your Free T3′s up where they need to be. Because Natural Dessicated Thyroid has both Free T3 and Free T4 in it –taking the same amount of Cytomel together with a Natural Thyroid product without beginning slowly to see how the natural dessicated thyroid does for you could be very dangerous and push you over to being hyperthyroid —which for safety and health reasons you don’t want.
I will look up for you today the equivalent dosing for the natural thyroid compared to what you are on and will post that for you when I get it.
Thanks for all the great info Bethanie!!! I am currently taking 25mcg of Cytomel and 125 mcg of Synthroid. I started Cytomel last May or June. I am taking all the vitamins that your recommended. I take Bio-D-Mulsion Forte for Vitamin D. I tried to show this mis-informed Dr. that you recommended my range be higher than 53. She didn’t agree and thought any higher would be toxic…..She also wants to reduce my Syntroid to 100 mcg. I doubt I get that RX filled.
I am excited to hear there is a new Natural Dessicated brand out there. I will make an appt. with the other Dr. & get those RXs like you suggested. Thanks!!
What are good ranges for FT3 and FT4? I can’t remember if you have given this to me before but I can’t seem to find it.
Thanks again for all the help from this website! It’s great!
Re: Needing Feedback on Thyroid Labs for Karen
Hello Karen, thanks for posting the labs here. Alright, let’s take a look at some things.
1. Your TSH is irrelevant, actually the TSH is a pituitary hormone, not a thyroid hormone. It’s the Free T3 and Free T4 that are important. My TSH is almost non existent—so low, it’s completely supressed, but I still have to raise my thyroid medication sometimes to get my Free T3 and Free T4 where it needs to be. The Free T3 and the Free T4 are levels of the actual thyroid hormones in your blood–again the TSH is just a signaling mechanism. Sometimes it is “yelling” saying send more thyroid hormone in which case the TSH would be high, or other times, it is very low which means the signal is not being sent. In that case, you need to look at the Free T3 and Free T4 to see what your thyroid levels actually are, and as long as those levels are not too high…then the TSH is a non issue.
So your Free T3 and your Free T4 are still too low, which would possibly explain the hair loss. I’m thinking with your labs that the Reverse T3 is high which you don’t want because of the Synthroid. See with the Synthroid your body has to convert the inactive T4 to the active form of thyroid hormone that your body can use which is T3….and the Reverse T3 can rise when this conversion process isn’t happening.
So I agree with your assessment that it may be time to revisit the other physician.
Re: Vitamin D, it should ideally be a little higher, ideally we want Vitamin D levels at 70% of the upper end of normal. Where you supplementing VItamin D the last time you had your labs checked? If so, how much Vitamin D were you taking and what brand/form? Ie :liquid tablets etc?
Now, here’s some new info that can throw a bit of a wrench in our options for thyroid patients. Not really a wrench but certainly a bit more complexity. In December there was a brand new natural dessicated thyroid medication available in the US. I’ve only seen Walgreens carry it, but I haven’t checked with other pharmacies so I don’t know for sure if others have it. It’s called Acella. Now, the nice thing about Acella is that it is a natural dessicated thyroid medication so it has both the free T3 and free T4 like NatureThroid and like the Armour Thyroid, but it does NOT have cellulose, which is actually a GOOD thing.
Because it’s so new though we really don’t have alot of feedback on it. The feedback we’re getting so far has been mixed. Some have said they are not impressed, while others say it has that old Armour smell, and that it dissolves easily subligually –probably because it has no cellulose.
Now I’m not sure what the right way to go would be. If I had a doctor’s appointment now, I would ask for 2 presciptions:
1. One for NatureThroid (since we know most are still doing well on it. Some are saying since they reformulated that they aren’t as happy. Seems like I am hearing many are having to increase, but look at the winter we’re having!!!! 1/2 of the country is snowed under it seems and we have to increase during cold times of the year anyway.
2. I would also ask for a prescription written like this
Natural Dessicated Thyroid
If the doctor writes it that way, this means you can ask Walgreens for sure maybe other phamacies to fill teh prescription with Natural Thyroid (ACELLA Brand)
Do NOT have the doctor write Acella on the prescription, leave it like I wrote it above just: “Natural Dessicated Thyroid” and your dose
You would need to verbally confirm with Walgreens that they can fill it with the Acella brand if you want to try it. Make sure they don’t fill it with the new Armour.
The beauty of having your prescription written in this manner is that should you ever decide or need to try the Canadian thyroid—the same prescription in terms of how it is written can be used.
Karen, if you can post another message and let me know your dose that you’re taking right now that may be useful also.
Hope that gets you started, and very good to talk with you again:-) Take Care–and everyone stay warm!
Needing advice on my recent labs from 1/25/11.
TSH – 0.0300 (0.300-5.00)
FT4 – 0.50 (0.50-1.20)
FT3 – 2.9 (2.4-4.2)
10/13/10 Labs
TSH – 0.0150(0.00-5.00)
FT4 – 0.92 (0.50-1.20)
FT3 – 4.4 (2.4-4.2)
Rev T3 – 183
I had noticed that my hair seemed to be coming more than normal so I cut back my synthroid to half. I would say that I did this about 2 weeks or more before my last lab draw. I did fast & did not take any RXs the day of the draw. I was shocked to see my TSH. I have been extremely cold the last month or so but that’s it. I am not tired, nor do I have hear palps. I did notice the last few nights that I have woken up a little warm. My weight has been pretty steady within 5 lbs or so.
This Dr. that I use to only get my labs done didn’t want to test my Vitamin D again. She thinks the level it was on 10/13/10 25-hydroxy D3:53 and 25-hydroxy D Total: 53 were fine. I thought Bethanie told me once it needed to be higher. I am going to fax my recent labs to the internal med Dr. that perscribed Cytomel. I think I need to re-vist him & see about Nature Throid.
Thanks,
Karen
Armour was changed and my doctor never mentioned it. My symptoms have worsened so much for the past year and a half or maybe even a bit longer. I have been taking Armour since my last pregnancy which was around 7 years ago. It was a dream come true for me because it stopped my hair falling out, my thinking was much sharper and I could have the energy to get to the gym. Now, I’ve been so cold all the time, I forget where I put my keys or other things, and I can barely do the chores around the house. My doctor told me that’s what happens when we get older, but now after spending time reading all this I wonder if it’s because of the Armour Thyroid.
Carin,
Thank you so much for your detailed response!!!
WBC 4.83 (3.98-10.04)
RBC 4.08 (3.93-5.22)
HGB 12.2 (11.2-15.7)
HCT 37.12 (34.1-44.9)
MCV 91.2 (79.0-100.00)
MCH 29.9 (25.6-32.2)
MCHC 32.8 (32.2-35.5)
RDW 12.7 (11.7-14.4)
PLT 226 (150-400)
MPV 12.0 (9.4-12.3)
NE% 59.7 (34.0-71.1)
LY% 28.2 (19.3-51.7)
MO% 7.5 (4.7-12.5)
EO% 4.6 (0.7-5.8)
BA% 0.0 (0.1-1.2)
NE# 2.89 (1.56-6.13)
LY# 1.36 (1.18-3.74)
MO# 0.36 (0.24-1.00)
EO# 0.22 (0.4-0.36)
BA# 0.00 (0.01-0.08)
Wow, that was all from my CBC, probably too much info
I will ask my doc for all of that testing. I don’t take B12 so that should not be a problem. I made an appointment yesterday, it is several weeks out though.
I take Magnesium High Potency Softgels, 400mg from Nature Made. Do I need something different? I am heading to the store for some coconut water right now! Thanks so much and I will update you soon.
RE: New Armour Still Feeling Tired – For Kate
Hello Kate, hello Lisa, welcome to both of you to our thyroid support group. Good to have you with us and thanks for your comments!
Kate, your situation is not unusual to have problems with the New Armour. As you can see from other comments here —there’s many thyroid patients who are not doing well.
Let me see if I can help you address some things:
1. To prescribe NatureThroid all your doctor needs to do is to write the word NatureThroid on the prescription— it is the same exact dosing as what is done for Armour thyroid. So if he is writing a prescription for 2 grains, he writes the prescription for 2 grains NatureThroid instead of 2 grains Armour thyroid. That’s it.
Here’s the conversion chart directly from the Manufacturer of NatureThroid RLC Labs. You may want to call around in your area and see if you can get it locally. Otherwise, Clark’s Pharmacy in Cave Creek AZ has always had it as far as I know–and can mail order it to you. They are reasonable with pricing and have great service. If you need their address phone etc, let me know and I’ll post it for you.
http://www.nature-throid.com/conversionChart.asp
The Armour caused me to have bad headaches and heart palpitations–so the symptoms you are having are also reported by myself and other thyroid patients. Gaining weight on the new Armour is also unfortunately fairly typical. I don’t know why but guess it could be that the new Armour just is not getting into the cells as it should.
In terms of your labs, the magnesium isn’t one I would retest, serum blood testing for magnesium only tests the 1% of the magnesium that’s in your blood, not what’s in your cells. You are probably fine to stay with what you are doing in terms of your magnesium dosing. What type of magnesium are you taking?
Your Free T3 is still too low — you want yours at the high end of normal
The HA1c is ok but trending towards the high end, this can also be effected by the thyroid
I don’t see a Thyroglobulin (TG) Antibody test on your labs, have you had one? If not, please ask them to test that for you. You need both antibody test
Ferritin does look a bit low
Next time ask for:
Ferritin
Serum Iron and TIBC (all 3 of these)
Your Vitamin D level is ok, but you would not want it to go any higher. I would back off of your doseage as the 10,000 iu is generally only given when someone is very low. Since you are at the top of your range, ask your doctor, but I would think 2,000 iu would be appropriate. (I can’t tell you what dose to take because I’m not a doctor, so ask your doctor or pharmacist but for sure don’t keep taking that high amount of D3 without asking someone) And too much Vitamin D can cause fatigue and other problems as can too little, so that is something to drop as soon as possible with appropriate supervision. If for some reason your doctor tells you to keep taking that high amount, please post back here to let me know, because then I would suggest you get another doctor’s or 2nd opinion!
What does your last CBC say, like the RBC, WBC, size MCH, MCT, (all of the ones listed on your CBC?)
How was your potassium?
I like coconut water as an electrolyte drink (not the coconut milk, the coconut water). Has more potassium than a banana without the sugar.
Since they are from 10 months ago, I would get all those labs repeated, as well as the ones I listed
I would also ask for a serum B12, and serum Homocysteine level. If however, you are supplementing B12, then the serum B12 won’t be accurate and you would need a urinary MMA. (Ask if you need help with how to request that test)
Make sure you repeat all thyroid testing:
Free T3
Free T4
TSH
Reverse T3
You don’t need to repeat the TPO antibodies but you DO need
The TG (Thyroglobulin Antibodies) NEED this test
6 small meals a day with some good lean protein at each meal is helpful for both the blood sugar issues as well as keeping your metabolism going and helps with weight loss. But if your thyroid is off then it is almost impossible to lose weight, so getting another set of labs would be helpful, as well as to ask your doctor for a new prescription ASAP.
I’ve been reading all weekend also and this is really good and helpful info about the Armour. My skin has been getting all bruised, and dry, and it’s like I have eczema on my arms and legs. Hair is coming out in the shower a lot. Guess that means a doctor’s appointment is in the works for me. Making my list up now with things to ask.
Hello,
This is my first time posting, I have been reading this thread for months and I appreciate all of the stories. I have been taking the new Armour for about 10 months now. I was originally prescribed a regiment that ended with me taking 2 grains (2 x 60mg tablets) at morning, noon, and 4 pm (6 grains total). I felt too many heart palpatations and too many headaches and I backed my self off. It does not appear that others take anywhere near such a high dose. I am currenty taking 1 grain 3 times a day. This was recently increased from 2 times daily. I am feeling slightly frustrated by my D.O., the last time I spoke with him about the side effects he said that he was glad I backed off and if that works for me then great. I said I wanted to try NatureThroid and discussed this forum as well. He said he never heard of it and did not even know how to prescribe it. I really think the Armour is causing my headaches and most definitely the heart palpatations.
I still am feeling very tired though, also I recently forced myself to go back to the gym. I have been trying to workout 3 times a week. I stopped drinking soda completely and I don’t drink any sugared drinks nor any diet drinks. I have continued to gain weight, in fact I am now at my highest point ever (30 lbs. more than the majority of my life, I started gaining about 5 years ago, I am now 46). I had a hysterectomy at age 28 and I am on natural hormone creams). I have an enlarged abdomen, difficulty sleeping, restless leg syndrome, foggy thinking, loss of short-term memory, high cholesterol (I take Lipitor 40 mg & Zetia 10 mg), I take D3 10,000 IU, Magnesium 400mg
My labs are from 10 months ago, I am making an appointment with doc and I am asking for new labs. He uses DCL Labs.
Magnesium
2.05 (1.70-2.60)
Free T3 3.1 (2.0-4.4)
Free T4 1.07 (0.93-1.70)
Hemoglobin HA1C 5.4 (4.5-5.7)
TSH 1.35 (0.27-4.20)
Anti-TPO Antibodies <10 (<35)
T3 Reverse 26 (11-32)
Vit D 25-Hydroxy 95 (30-100)
Calcium 10.2 (8.6-10.2) already on D3
Ferritin 45.80 (5.00-148) This has been low in the past
Folate Serum 16.10 (3.00-17.00)
I am sure I left out something else that would be considered useful, so please let me know if there is anything I can offer. Any recommendations or insight would be useful. I really am not impressed with Armour and I am hoping that my doctor will consider NatureThroid. Thanks to all for sharing your stories and wisdom!
I had been taking Armour Thyroid for about 15 years and doing wonderfully on it. Well all that has changed since the armour has been reformulated. I am getting a serious case of carpal tunnel syndrome, which I had also gotten over 15 years ago when I was first put on Synthroid until they switced me over to Armour. With this new Armour formulation, that carpal tunnel syndrome is coming back with a vengeance, I am very tired, but I have not had my thyroid levels checked yet. A few months back when they were reformulating Armour and you couldn´t get it, I had to go to a compounding pharmacy to compound the armour ingredients for me as I am allergic to the synthetic thyroid medications like Synthroid. I did great on the compounded stuff! I read somewhere that if you need compounded stuff you can ask your doctor to prescribe an off amount of med like 90.1 mg instead of 90 mg so you can get it compounded for you. I am going to ask my doctor if he will do this for me so I can go back to the compounded natural thyroid preparation to see if this new Armour formulation is what is causing my carpal tunnel. If they prescribe you an amount that you can get through Armour, then you can´t get it compounded, but if the doctor prescribes an amount that Armour doesn´t offer, like just a little more or a little less than what you are getting now, then you can get it compounded without those weird fillers which is what I think the problem might be with the new Armour, because I was fine on it for 15 years until they recently changed the formulation!!!!!! FORREST LABS WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS????? WHY DID YOU HAVE TO GO MESSING WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS WORKING PERFECTLY FINE FOR FOLKS FOR SO MANY YEARS????? And don´t tell me that cellulose is cheaper, or easier to get than dextrose!!!!!
Thank you Jessica for posting that article!!
THANKS SAMANTHA, I WILL TRY THE NATURE THROID. I WILL LET YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL.
Re: Not Doing Well on the New Armour.. Was Naturethroid reformulated?
Hi Diane, There’s so many people whom I know who also say they can’t tolerate the new Armour. It made me very ill—to the point where my body felt like it was shutting down. I don’t know why I kept taking it for so long. But finally, I had no choice but to change.
I tried first the Erfa thyroid from Canada. It was ok, but I thought it was a little challenging time wise to have to wait for it to ship and go through customs. So I thought why not give the Naturethroid a try. And I’m glad I did. The Naturethroid has also been reformulated, but that doesn’t mean that the reformulation is like the new Armour.
I’m really happy with the NT and glad I’m off of the awful Armour. I was on the old Armour for 10 + years so I really wanted the new Armour to work. But it didn’t and I think that anyone who’s feeling so badly on the new Armour should give one of the other thyroid meds a try. Naturethroid I think is soooo much better than the new Armour.
Hi I am on the new armour and not doing well. Does anyone know if the naturetroid was reformulated? If so is it better than the armour. Thanks for any help.
Hello Jessica, thanks so much for your comments about Synthroid. I totally agree…too many patients are needlessly put on Synthroid without a discussion about natural thyroid medication and patients being informed on the facts. I know so many people are doing great either on compounded thyroid medication–but some are on compounded and still not getting natural thyroid, so it’s important to make sure that on’es doctor is prescribing natural dessicated thyroid powder when using compounded meds. Other patients including myself are doing wonderfully on NatureThroid. I also have some friends who are also hypothyroid–makes ya wonder what’s happening in this country when everyone around you has a thyroid problem—anyway, others I know are using Efra from Canada and also doing well. So it just means that everyone has to be persistent I think to make sure that they are using something that works for them!
Many thanks again for coming online to comment on our thyroid discussion. And thanks for posting the link to the NEJM-that helps patients see in writing that there are actual cases of others documented in the medical literature that most people will do better on T3 and T4.
Finally, I stopped by your website and your music is so LOVELY. I personally think music is such a healing factor and it should be used more in the medical field as an adjunct for patients!
There are many compounding pharmacies in the US and Canada, and MANY doctors who are coming to their senses about the Synthroid Big Lie. In 1999, The New England Journal of Medicine published an article stating that in a controlled, peer-reviewed study, patients on T4 had a lower QOL (Quality of Life) than patients on T3 plus T4 medications — http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199902113400603 — show this article to your doctor and if he or she does not relent and call a compound pharmacy for you, get a new doctor. In America, the NEJM is the last word. Compounded natural dessicated thyroid seems to be fresher and work better for me than and of the manufactured products, and YOU can choose the filler (avicel, lactose, olive oil).
A fine compounder is womensinternational (within the US).
Bethanie,
No problem. I hope you had a wonderful time with your family.
Re: What Time of Day Should I Get My Thyroid Tested? Do I need to Be Fasting? Why?
Hi Netalia,
I’m glad that you found our thyroid support group. And thanks for your great questions! Here’s an article that I previously posted about the importance of fasting for your thyroid lab tests.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/medical/do-you-know-when-to-get-your-thyroid-lab-testing-done
Your Questions:
Q: Should I be fasting when I get my labs? I never do! Why or why not?
A: See the thyroid testing article link I posted above, but bottom line, fasting results will yield “higher” lab numbers for TSH — and because some docs are so focused on the TSH, fasting results will be better for you because many of us are undermedicated anyway…if your TSH is lower because you are not fasting, then you have less probabilities of getting proper thyroid medication dosing.
Q: Also should I not take my thyroid medicine the morning of my labs? I always have taken it but did not this last time just to see. Why or why not?
A: No you should not take your thyroid medication the morning of your lab draw. But you should bring it with you and take it immediately after you have had your blood drawn. Reason being is that you can have a lower TSH than normal and higher Free T3 and Free T4 levels if you take your thyroid medication right before a blood draw. Your body must function for 24 hours on one dose of thyroid medicine if you are dosing once a day, so the last thing you want to do is have your test immediately after taking your medication when your medication levels are apt to be the strongest. A better indication of how your thyroid levels are doing over the 24 hour period is to get your labs taken before you take your medicine because you have to function for the entire 24 hours -not just the time right after you take your medication.
Let us know if you have other questions. Thanks Leigh for sharing your info about being thyroidless, and I would add that the # 1 thing you can do as a thyroid patient is to get copies of your own labs!
Re: Thyroidectomy and And Hashimotos Questions: Can you still have Antibodies with No Thyroid?
Hello Netalia, Welcome to the thyroid support board. I generally post on one of the other boards here because I have some other medical issues, however, when I saw your questions about not having a thyroid I thought I’d chime in and see if I could share some things that may help you.
Thank you for sharing the details about your history. This helps very much to try to put the different pieces together. I’m sorry you lost your thyroid cancer and have had to go through such a struggle to feel well again. I’m also glad that you have not had any recurrences of the thyroid cancer and I have many friends who have also had thyroid cancer and who are also doing well—for more than 15 or 20 years afterwards and still having no issues.
Now, moving forward for you, I know you mentioned some things about your labs, but very few details (meaning exact numbers).
1. Do you have a copy of your labs?
2. If you don’t have copies of your labs do you need help in knowing what to say and how to request them?
Sometimes we aren’t aware of the fact that we are legally entitled to having full and complete copies of all of our labwork. They MUST give them to you but if you need help in knowing how to do this please ask.
3. It is possible to have Hashimotos without a thyroid. In fact, this is my exact situation. Although my thyroid antibodies have gone down since having a total thyroidectomy several years ago—they are still there. In fact Hashimotos is an auto-immune disorder and you don’t “get over it.” Having it makes one more likely to have other auto-immune processes going on so it is important to know if you have it or not. But whether you have it or not the ‘treatment’ for it in terms of what most of us without thyroids have found to be the most helpful and those medical specialists (the few of them that there are out there) who are really up on thyroid issues have determined that the best way to keep the antibodies from flaring is to make sure that the TSH is very supressed (very low) like you would in a thyroid cancer patient but you also need to have Free T3 at the top of the range, and Free T4 at least mid range.
Cholesterol is a HUGE issue with thyroid issues that are not properly treated. And by not properly treated I mean not having the Free T3 at the top of the range, the Free T4 at least midrange, the Reverse T3 that is low and that you are FEELING well. So your symptoms also have to be taken into account, not just the labs. My DH’s cardiologist tried his best to get him on statin medications when his cholesterol went up last year. However, because his thyroid levels had gotten too high–his cholesterol went up. Once his thyroid was properly treated…cholesterol levels came down almost 100 points. He no longer is a candidate for statins–and I would not have let him take them anyway. Would have had him try other things instead of doing statin medications. Bottom line, the cardiologist wasn’t interested in looking at thyroid lab results or even testing them. All he wanted was to medicate him for a problem which was corrected by testing and then treating his thyroid issue.
To answer your questions:
Q: Should I have ferritin, B12 and reverse T3 tested?
A: Yes, to all of the above. And you also need to have a full iron panel which would include all of these tests:
Serum iron, TIBC, and ferritin **Plus you would need the regular CBC results to look at things like the size of the RBC and other things
Q: Should I crush and use honey rather than chewing? I felt it got stuck in my teeth and was so gross!
A: Most of us with thyroid issues find that crushing it (there’s a great little blue cylindrical type of pill crusher/splitter that Bethanie writes about that I got from Walgreens) is the best way to have it absorb well. I also add a few drops of honey to it and take it sublingually – letting it dissolve. It gets kind of pasty and isn’t the most pleasant thing but I don’t care. It works so much better for me that way -that a little bit of inconvenience is fine with me.
Q: Do I have thyroid antibodies to be tested since I don’t have a thyroid?
A: I would personally get them tested to see if you still have them. It is possible that you had them before and don’t have them without a thyroid–but it is totally possible—to still have them or have lower ones than you would have had before, had you been properly tested. They should have tested you before you had your thyroid removed to be certain, but since they did not, it may be a good idea just to see if they are still there and at what levels.
The best advice I can give you is that you MUST get copies of your own labs. Also, you mentioned low Vitamin D which is so very common in thyroid patients and also a BIG risk factor for cancers. You didn’t mention how low your Vitamin D was so getting a copy of your labs and posting your results if you want feedback is also a good idea. A huge mistake many doctors make is having us take too little vitamin D if our levels are low, and although it is important to monitor, you don’t want to wait around for years to get your Vitamin D levels up where they belong. I learned from Bethanie and have confirmed this through other readings, that we should be at 75% of the UPPER range of Vitamin D in order to be properly optimized. Just ‘within range’ isn’t good enough. I don’t know why but many doctors aren’t aware of this. Even the Mayo Clinic where I went didn’t address my very very low Vitamin D levels. I had to learn this myself.
So bottom line, don’t expect your physicians to know everything –some of them don’t know much about thyroid, Vitamin D, Vitamin B12 or preventative medicine. I think we have to all be much more pro-active about our health and keep on top of the numbers etc ourselves. I have fired more docs than probably most people have in their lifetimes, but the good news is that I finally feel better than ever. It’s been a long time getting there, but there’s just no reason to be inadequately medicated on thyroid hormones. And there are some good doctors out there–it just takes some time to find them and then of course there are sometimes insurance issues that come into play that don’t allow us to change physicians. But you can learn things that make you able to be in a position to know where you want certain things to be so that you can partner with a good physician and make sure that you are feeling as good as you can for both yourself and your family:-)
Before I forget because I already did, I also wanted to know:
Should I be fasting when I get my labs? I never do! Why or why not?
Also should I not take my thyroid medicine the morning of my labs? I always have taken it but did not this last time just to see. Why or why not?
Thanks!
Hello! I just found this site and am amazed at all the information. I had a few questions and was hoping to get some help. First I will tell you a little bit about myself. I am a 30 yr old female, 3 kids and currently breastfeeding my 3rd who is 8 months old (this will be pertinent later on)
Previous History: I was diagnosed with follicular papillary thyroid cancer in 1999 and had a complete thyroidectomy in May of 2000. I have had several I-131 treatments and no reoccurence. I have however been on a rollercoaster of Levoxyl and Synthroid for 10 years!! I currently have a doctor who is very condescending and spends maybe 10 minutes at the most with me. We have a mutual disdain for one another.
Since my son was 6 weeks old she decided (not based on labs) that I needed to reduce my synthroid because I was no longer pregnant and typically that is what is seen. So I was on 137 (was 150mcg) since May of 2010. Then after an exhausting summer I went in August for my recheck of labs and of course I got the ‘labs are fine’ speech and told I needed to meditate and get on anti-depressants. I did neither of the two and just have been plummeting in my daily activities. I can’t work out anymore, I am soooooo tired, my skin is dry and scaly, I am freezing and my face feels like I am fighting someone who is pulling it down constantly. I take afternoon naps and am still tired all day. Also, back in August I had a cholesterol panel done and was not fasting so they were super high! Huge waste of money and had then redone to find out they were normal to high. She dismissed it as a breastfeeding issue and left me in panic mode. I have now spent months trying to put this all together which has brought me to the past 2 weeks time.
I recently went back this past week and again got the typical TSH is fine however she was concerned that my T3 was 2.8 and should be min 3.5. My VItamin D was low and am taking 2000 IU daily.Iron was fine and all CBC’s. She also switched me to Armour 90MG which I was told is the equivelant to 150mcg of Synthroid. I have now been taking it for a week and today I chewed it and feel better finally today. While not perfect I am shocked that today I did not long for a nap and figure out how I can plan my day to sleep with all 3 kids. I just cannot continue this…..so I really hope it was not a coincidence and that I might have some relief soon.
So my questions are after reading:
Should I have my ferritin, B12 and reverse T3 tested?
Should I crush and use honey rather than chewing? I felt it got stuck in my teeth and was so gross!
Do I have thyroid antibodies to be tested since I don’t have a thyroid?
Any other suggestions specific to not having a thyroid? Any info is much appreciated!
I tend to find a lot of info for people who are hypothyroid but not people who don’t have one and are hypothyroid. I was told I could have Hashimoto’s by a naturopath and when I told my MD she laughed and said that is clinically impossible because I don’t have a thyroid! Is that true? I just don’t know who to believe sometimes…..:( and thought I would just throw my questions out here. Of course I don’t have any complaints about reformulation of the Armour because I am just now on it. However, I like to research things I put in my body and came across all of this great info and it has made me curious.
Thanks so much!
Merry Christmas to all of you. Karen, thanks so much for the comments and I hope you are having a wonderful holiday. I’ve had company in–so have had few hours to be on the computer. However, I’m blessed to have met such a great group of people this past year on this thyroid board. Thank you to everyone whose written in and shared their stories. And I am hoping that we are all taking time to enjoy family and friends. May everyone’s holiday be safe and filled with moments to cherish. And may all of us have good health and thyroid issues that are getting better:-)
Looks like I have to change thyroid medicines along with many of you. For the past year I have gained weight, my energy is so low, and I am losing my hair. I have also asked my doctor–all he tells me is that my labs are normal. I don’t have copies of them but after reading through your helpful hints you better believe I will ask for them next week.
Just wanted to say that I hope everyone has a Safe and Happy Holiday Season! I am very thankful for this site and the people that I have met on here that have helped me & given their advice to help others. Thank you for what you do for us!!
Karen
I am so glad I found your site with the info on Armour thyroid medicine. My doctor keeps raising my dose but I’m not feeling one bit better. I can’t understand why my doctor wouldn’t have me try another medicine to see if that works better. I am going through and reading every comment to help me know what to ask for.
Question on Hashimotos and Reverse T3 for Bethanie.
Hi Bethanie, Could you help me understand if the Reverse T3 happens in Hashimotos people more than others with thyroid problems? Thank you
Thanks Bethanie, I wish a very blessed holiday to you and yours. My appreciation to you for listening to all of us….and most importantly, responding back with your wisdom.
Hi Karen and Sandra, I’ll write back soon about the labs in more detail but here’s a couple of quick things. Sandra, no need to worry about the Hashimotos, but it is important you’re aware of it and I’ll explain more in detail about the things you need to know and watch out for, especially when educating your doctors. And yes, unfortunately most of us have to educate our docs or find more open minded ones when dealing with thyroid disorders especially Hashimotos because not many physicians will take the time to learn and read/study about it so it’s up to us to help them understand what works and what doesn’t!
Karen, I will go back and see if I can find your last CBC that you did post and then have some comments for you on your iron status.
And I hope everything is also having a wonderful holiday time and that you are all remembering to take care of yourselves too! An Epsom salt bath with some lavendar essential oil is a great way to de-stress and relax and it helps those sore muscles from either exercising or too much shopping. LOL:-)
Finally, not sure if you all saw this but I thought this was a fascinating article about how dolphins may hold the key towards helping scientists understand some key things about cancer…..
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-e-living/could-dolphins-hold-the-key-towards-finding-a-cure-for-cervical-cancer
Hope you all enjoy reading it as much as I did!
Happy holidays everyone:-)
Thanks Bethanie! I am not on any iron. I take the Magnesium Glycinate, Vitamin C powder, Selenium, and Bio D Mulsion Forte all the ones recommended by you. I feel pretty good and usually exercise 2-3 days a week but have slacked off since Thanksgiving but am trying to get back into it. Yes, I am sure I have been under stress lately but hopefully most of that is going away. One Dr. wanted me to decrease my Cytomel & the other Dr. didn’t think anything was wrong but they both look at TSH mainly. The 2nd Dr. did ask how I was feeling. I did notice that I was loosing some hair so I thought what if I cut back on Synthroid so that is what I have done, I have cut my 125mcg in half & feel pretty good still, the hair loss is not as bad. I figured I could take 1/2 every other day if needed, It seems as though I read a post on here about that. After the 1st of the year, I think I will check into Nature Throid with the 2nd Dr. I tried taking my temps in the morning but the thermometer that I had I never could tell that it moved. I need to see about getting another one. I have never checked my pulse but I don’t feel my heart or anything racing.
Thanks for responding & always giving great advice! I hope you & your family have a wonderful holiday season!
Bethanie,
I am feeling fine….a little scared now that I found out that I have Hashimotos though. I have never taken my temperature in the monring. I don’t normally check my pulse rate throughout the day either. Energy is alright, I’m not skipping around town though! LOL I do not take an iron supplement. This last round of bloodwork did not include CBC workup. The script did however have Vitamin B12, but that was not one of the things that came back on my bloodwork. I think the blood drawer didn’t see it on the script!
I am afraid if the doctor raises my meds it will be too much since everything seemed to be in normal range? I have made an appointment with an endo….not that I don’t like my family doctor. My gyne suggested that I get another opinion. I have noticed in that last few months, that I feel like I have a constant lump in my throat. After seeing my test “scores”, I would imagine that this is my thyroid being inflamed? I think the most upsetting thing through all of this is that I had my daughter almost 2 months premature……after reading some things……I could have had this disease when I was pregnant UNTREATED (perhaps the reason she came early) and it could be passed through the placenta. Now I am having my 9-year old tested after Christmas. The fun never ends!!!!!! I thank you for responding…much appreciated.
PS/If there are supplements you recommend, please share. Also, have you ever heard of a supplement called Beta 1,3 Glucan? It is suppose to help people with immune issues.
Re: Karen’s Thyroid Labs:
Karen,
Your ferritin is still low. Are you on iron supplements now? If so, what brand how much etc?
Vitamin D is still too low.
With your Reverse T3 being so high this can be indicative of a problem in that the Reverse T3 is not letting the thyroid hormone into the cells. I like to see Reverse T3 levels much lower than that.
Your Free T3 is just a tad high, but if your doctor isn’t looking at the Reverse T3, then they would think that you need a reduction in your medication whereas with high Reverse T3 you need the T3 medication so that your Reverse T3 levels can come down. I wonder also if you are doing ok with the Synthroid or if you may do better with NatureThroid and Cytomel instead of the Synthroid.
Can you also tell me what supplements you are currently taking? I know you had possibly added some earlier. But what are you now doing each day? What is your exercise like? Sometimes with Higher Reverse T3 levels stress can also cause this. With the holidays —most of us are under stress, but how is your exercise right now?
Are you feeling better, the same, or worse, than usual do you think? How about your temps in the morning? Taken before you get out of bed with a hand held (old style thermometer under the armpit?) What is your pulse throughout the day (3x a day is best to check.)
What did your doctor say about these latest labs?
Re: Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies High, Free T3 Still Too Low (Labs for Sandra)
Sandra,
With your labs, and the TPO Antibodies till being so high along with the Free T3 still not being at the top end of the range, I would say you definitely need an INCREASE in your thyroid medication and not to hold at the same level, but obviously you would need your doctor on board with this. More importantly, how are you feeling? What is your temperature upon waking in the morning before geting out of bed? What is your pulse rate taking it 3x throughout the day? How is your energy? With Hashimotos unless you have enough medication in your system, the antibodies will not go down. And you want your FreeT3 to be at the high end of normal. Are you taking any iron tablets? If so which brand and how much? Do you have your CBC bloodwork also and can you post them? Have you had your Vitamin B12 tested? Because your ferritin could sill come up a bit and your iron is still too low and this can also affect how your thyroid hormone is being processed. Vitamin B12 is often low when the iron is low and B12 is another vitamin that can be low/deficient in people with thyroid disorders. Also, because we’re in the winter months now, most of us do have to raise our thyroid medication.
Hello….
Well I have been waiting to post. I wanted to have some new labs and here they are:
Iron = 42 (40-175 mcg/dl)
Ferritin = 66 (10-232 ng/ml)
TSH = 0.56 (0.40-4.50 mIU/L)
T4, Free = 0.8 (0.8-1.8 ng/dl)
T3, Free = 2.9 (2.3-4.2 pg/ml)
Thyroglobulin AB = <20 (<20 iu/ml)
Thyroid Peroxidase AB = 325 (<35 iu/ml) THIS WAS FLAGGED
T3, Reverse = 9 (11-32 ng/dl) THIS WAS FLAGGED
My doctor's office told me to continue on the same strength that I am taking which is 3 grains (195) Nature-Throid.
I would love to hear what one of you "lab" people think of these results. THANKS!!!!!!
Thanks Bethanie, you are undoubtedly right about the colder weather making symptoms worse, as I felt like crap all day (it’s freezing here in Florida – 22 degrees below normal!). But, it’s only Day 2 of the higher dose, so I will give it a couple of weeks to see if it begins to work. Finally persuaded the doctor to go read up on Nature-throid, as there seem to be fewer issues with it than with Armour. That said, it looks like there may have been a reformulation there too, so who knows what will work. If anything. At least I should be able to get a script to give it a try. Efra would be my last resort, because of cost, but someone in another forum says that she can get it for $19 per month. Will let you know what happens. I see the doc in the first week of January. Happy Hollies everyone:-)
Karen and Tina,
Great to hear from both of you. Karen, I need to grab some reference ranges so I’ll do that and will post back. On first glance your Reverse T3 looks high to me, so let me confirm that and then I’ll post again.
Tina, If you’re not on enough medication, yes, you will still have symptoms. Just a personal note, most of us will need to increase our thyroid medication in the fall/winter months anyway. Well I was taking NatureThroid and still am and am doing fine on it, but I was starting to feel kind of worn out and tired, and noticed I was putting on some pounds which was very distressing. I can tell when I’m getting hypo because my face will start to get puffy also. So I had my blood work done and although I was technically ‘in range’ my T3 was too low and also the T4. So I had to actually go up a whole grain more and bingo…the weight’s coming off, my face is no longer puffy and I feel like myself again. I don’t know if this is because of the reformulation that I needed more, or just the change in seasons. But it’s really important to keep after it and to raise if your levels are too low. Obviously you need your doctor on board so I’m glad your doctor agreed to increase your dose. I still think you may want to try something else other than the Armour. Possibly the NatureThroid and/or either Efra or compounded, with compounded being my last choice simply because of the expense, but I’m just not hearing great things about people having success with the new Armour. Can you get your doc to perhaps write you a prescription for the 2 grains which is 120mg of NatureThroid just to see if you feel better? The problem when it takes them so long for them to “fix” things is that you start feeling worse and worse and it’s harder to get back on track the longer things go.
Anyway, let me know if you think you could get the doc to make the switch. It may be worth trying just to see if you can jump start things and begin feeling better. It’s the holidays—so we need to feel better:-)
Hi Everyone,
Good to be back. I’ve been waiting for blood work results before posting again, and just wanted to get your input. Despite upping my dose to 105mg of Armour, I have remained symptomatic and in fact gained yet more weight. But the following look good, as did my CBC, so I know that I’m on track…just not there yet.
FT3& FT4 are as follows:
FT4 = 0.95 (RR 0.76-1.46 ng/dL)
FT3 = 3.21 (RR 2.18-3.98 ng/dL)
The doctor agreed to raise my dose to 120mg today, so I’m hoping that this will be sufficient for me to begin to feeling like a human being again.
Happy Holidays to you all,
Bethanie- Live in St. Augustine, Fl and would love a lists of Dr.’s who treat thyroid. I also had a dog with thyroid issues (cocker spaniel). Be sure and watch for how cold they get– sometimes shaking with shivering teeth. Since heat in the home raises and a dog is low to the ground- I made sure in winter he slept on a couch or on the bed and it was a good indication I needed to up alittle his rx ( with tests also). Good luck- can be very trying.
Hello All,
I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving Holiday!
Here are my labs from October. I don’t have the ranges for all labs, sorry
Iron Blood:101 Total Iron Binding Capacity:349 Percent Saturation:29 Ferritin Blood:44
25 Hydroxy D Total:53
Thyroid STIM Hormone:.0150 (.300-5.00)
FT4: .92 (.50-1.20)
Reverse T3:183
Triiodothyronine Free: 4.4
How does it look? I feel pretty good I suppose. I am on Cytomel & Synthroid.
Thanks,
Karen
Long time reader, first time poster. I simply want to say thanks for all you do with this website. This is one of the first sites I visit each day.
RE: May Have Found a Good Doctor!!!!
Frances, I am so thrilled for you. From what you’ve posted it sounds like you could have found a real “Gem” of a doctor. How great that she ordered the testing, and even better that she ordered additional ones. Please keep us posted with your results, and if you don’t mind sharing, let us know what other tests she wanted to do. I have a longer list, of tests also (but it’s so hard most of the time to get the physician’s to do the basics) that I start with the list that I post here because it is a good start…
Congratulations Frances, I’m doing a happy dance for you:-)
Good morning all-
With my fingers crossed and holding my breath I think I have found a “good doctor”. Just came from my appointment with the new endocrinologist, yes she is young, and I was very impressed. I know she would rather I be on a synthetic medication, but did not attempt to talk me out of it. Nor was she intimidated by all my questions or my requests (ok demands).
She asked a myriad of questions, listened to all of my concerns and answered all of my questions. After a full examination she painstakingly explained the testing prossess and had additional tests she wanted to do that my PC had not done!!!!! Thanks to this site she wanted to do most of the tests that have been recommended here! I reviewed my list with her and she had no problem doing additional tests (or coding them so the insurance would pay for them….). Ordered a CBC and after reviewing that she will order additional tests. But had no issue with the ferritin (complete iron!), B12 (complete) or Vit. D. Plus the antibodies and standard thyroid tests. She took the time to explain why I would need certain tests and when she would order them. She prefers to use the AACE guidelines. I specifically asked what she considered “normal range”? She quickly responded that even if your numbers are within the “NR” but you still don’t feel well she prefers to treat the symptoms and NOT the numbers!!!!
Blood work will be done next Wednesday (she likes a 6 week time frame before adjusting medication). Said she will call me as soon as she receives the results. Begged me not to obsess about the weight – my BMI is well within range and we can address this with a nutritionist once we get my #’s optomized. It is not easy being 10 pounds heavier than one year ago, but based on my exercise regiment she is not concerned.
Best of all — she spent ONE HOUR with me!!!!!!! She took over the practice from an older endo – office staff’s comments – “she is a breath of fresh air” AND she starts at 7:45 AM.
I am sorry to be gloating and things may fall apart, but I know many of you are struggling to find a doctor that is willing to listen and help you to get well again. Thought I would share that there is hope and not all of them blame it on “cranky women going through menopause”.
Will post my results and doctor’s recommendations next week.
For now I wish all speedy recovery and good health.
Thyroid Testing Options: For Von
Hi Von, I’ve researched the different options for thyroid testing also, and what I learned so far is this.
If you’re going to do adrenal testing, then the saliva testing is much more accurate than blood testing because with the saliva testing you are required to test at different times throughout the day which is important when you measure how your cortisol is doing which is a direct reflection of your adrenal gland function/s.
However, if you are going to do thyroid testing the blood spot testing that Dr. Shames offers is not as accurate nor as good of a measure of your function/s and since most other doctors who you’re going to need anyway in order to get your thyroid medication prescribed, don’t won’t even accept the blood spot testing, then you’re much better off and will save more money by just getting a good series of thyroid tests drawn via bloodwork and only doing the saliva test for your adrenals if you are concerned about them.
I made the mistake a few years ago and spent the money to do the bloodspot and/adrenals, and having done that I got valuable info from the saliva testing, but ended up completely wasting my money on the thyroid tests etc… Hopefully this will help save someone else’s cash!
Re: Being Tired of Being Tired :Thyroid Meds
Hi Von, I can relate to almost everything you shared. It’s even hard to know what to do because my brain is so foggy. Things were much easier with the old Armour. But I know I have to change my dose or medicine or something. It is not normal to be so exhausted each and every day. Just wanted to say hang in there and can’t wait to hear how you feel with the Canadian thyroid.
Mandy,
Thanks so much for sharing all that. I’ve been so down because I’m so tired of feeling this way. At least all of us are trying to find answers and not giving up because tests were normal or the doctor thinks everything is okay, what have you. I have a cousin who gave in to chronic fatigue, and I know a lot of her problem was thyroid and adrenal (she takes Synthroid). But she wouldn’t research it and pursue different avenues, despite all the information I put in front of her. She pretty much gave up and then developed cancer. So sad. I could choke some of the doctors who haven’t put their thinking caps on long enough to help their patients.
That’s very interesting about the headaches. I guess it took from June until October to start affecting me that way, maybe because I also take Synthroid. But the Synthroid feels like a placebo, all 262 mcg of it. I feel like a zombie. It’s so tough to think and make decisions and to do mental tasks. And my job is all about that. But I just checked my calendar, and the new Thyroid should be in anytime now. I’m praying for tomorrow!
I would love to have the ferritin test done. Is it very expensive? My mother has had to have transfusions and special shots for the iron because of severe anemia. She has low thyroid. I always have a feeling that the docs are overlooking something and not putting the pieces of the puzzle together with her. She’s got a lot of problems, and I’m trying my best to avoid them. We really do have to be our own doctor much of the time. When I was a teenager, I was anemic and took B-12 shots and iron supplements, which helped a lot. I guess I need to study all that more. I take B complex three times a day (when I remember), and the doctor upped my Vitamin D to twice a day. So I should be okay on the D. I try to always take a liquid form or capsules. Mandy, you mentioned not having the shortness of breath anymore. That would be great. And I soooo want to get back to the gym and feel like I’m making headway at being healthy again!
I do have Dr. Shames’s book. I have about five or six thyroid books, all of which I read about 8 years ago when I first had symptoms. So I’ve forgotten a lot of it. Then I had to switch to “Adrenal Fatigue” and books on candida and Lyme. No time for novels. It helps a lot to be able to read these posts from live people who understand. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to share your experiences and what you have learned.
And, Anita, I’ll keep that in mind about the need to up the dose with the Erfa and trying the Nature Throid. I think I’ll have enough to increase it a little for the first month.
Before I sign off, has anyone used the home kits for thyroid and hormone tests, either saliva or blood spot? Dr. Shames’s website recommends some labs and says these tests are more accurate than drawing blood. I haven’t researched that yet. Will check with my doc before committing to any of that.
Von
RE: Knowing which Natural Thyroid Medicine to Try to Use
Hi you’all. I was reading about everyone’s experiences with thyroid medicine and thought I’d share with you what I’ve used. I have tried both the Erfa and the Nature Throid. Actually both of these seemed to be about the same for me. Except, that like the others have said, I did have to take more Erfa than Nature Throid. I had to increase a whole grain more of the Erfa in order to feel the same amount of energy etc…
Now, I liked how Erfa tasted. It definitely made my mind think I was still on the old Armour and it didn’t get all cakey and glooey in my mouth when taking it sublingually. So it was easier to use I think.
What I didn’t like is not only was it costing me more, but having to wait to have it shipped from Canada was a pain–and in the end it was not a good financial choice for me both because of the increased price and the fact that I had to pay even more because I had to take more.
If money is not an object then I’d say try both thyroid medicines (one for one month) the other for the next month and see how you feel. If money is a concern than it may be a good choice to start on the Nature Throid and see how you do, and then if that isn’t working well for you, to try the Canada Thyroid.
But with either, if your other labs are not in good form, then you won’t feel very good on any thyroid medicine in my opinion. I had to get both my ferritin and my Vitamin D levels up because both were extremely low.
RE: Thyroid Meds – For Von
Hi Von, I had awful headaches daily with the new Armour. Never got them before, only started after they changed the formula. I finally switched to NatureThroid and no more headaches and feel about a thousand percent better. But I did have to take iron supplements. My iron level was showing “normal” according to my doctor but when I insisted on a ferritin test (it’s a different test) my ferritin was also “normal” but so low that I think it was like 1 point above the lowest number on the scale. Or something very close to that. When I asked the doctor about treating it he said they would have to wait until it was below normal for me to be considered “anemic”. I was like…”you’ve got to be kidding me right?” So I just started taking iron supplements but I had to change supplements and get one that didn’t upset my stomach. My ferritin level is back up to around 50 now–not perfect, but much better. I’m aiming for between 60-70 so I’m getting closer, and the big thing is I can tell I don’t get out of breath anymore and am not so fatigued. Plus I have more energy at the gym and finally lost those dreadful 10 pounds I had put on with the Armour.
Regarding your question about Dr. Shames. I have his book and it is very good. In terms of the consult my cousin did one with him before and although I don’t recall the specifics exactly what I do remember is that it was very expensive and he really didn’t tell her anything that I hadn’t already learned here with Bethany’s knowledge. So if you’re short on cash I think I’d rather spend the money on getting good thyroid tests so you know what to do, and just buy his book if you want to know what he says about the thyroid. Otherwise, Carin and Bethany have shared with me things that I was never told before and thank goodness they both encouraged me to hang in there and not give up.
I hope that the Erfa works really great for you, and will look for your update on that issue. But do not be alarmed if you have to take more Erfra than what you’re currently taking for other thyroid meds. I am in another support group and that’s also a very common complaint I hear with the Erfa, that it normally requires you to take more medication.
Natalie, I decided on the Erfa because, of all the posts I read, people seemed to have the most success with that one. Plus, my doctor had muscle-tested me at one point for the Nature-Throid and Westhroid, and they didn’t seem to be a good choice for me. But then muscle testing didn’t show a problem with the Armour, and I’m still convinced it’s a problem for me. I took the Armour yesterday just to see if I would feel any different. I still felt weak and then developed a headache later in the day, which had been happening every day with the Armour. I think something in it causes my headaches. I also got the glassy, red eyes that make me look like I’m sick, which I had assumed in the past had been from the Lyme. To tell you the truth, I’m about ready to have a full array of tests for thyroid and hormones and ferritin and whatever else could be a problem. And no, I haven’t taken any of the other thyroid meds except the Synthroid and Armour and compounded.
And, Kellie, I’ll be glad to report on how I do with the Erfa. Hopefully it will be good news.
BTW, has anyone had a thyroid consultation with Richard Shames? I think that’s his name. But my memory is sooooo bad right now!!!!
Bethanie, I just read your post again about the ferritin and am thinking that could be me. But is checking for ferritin a special test and not one that would normally be included in standard panels? My digestion is slow at times. I can eat just a little and feel really full. Then I don’t seem to absorb the nutrients, so I take more supplements. Also, I take what I consider a large dose of thyroid meds, being 112 mcg of Synthroid and 60 mg of Armour one day and 90 the next day. Of course, here lately, I’ve been taking 270 mcg Synthroid. I weigh around 140 now, after gaining that 8 unwanted pounds recently. I hate the feeling fat, fuzzy and frazzled, etc. I took an Armour tablet this morning just to see how i would feel taking it after not taking it or the past week or more. This evening I developed a headache again, which had gone away in the abence of Armour. I’m becoming concerned about how much my hormones or the iron or these other things are coming into play with my thyroid. Does anyone have any idea how much those tests cost? My deductible is $1200 and my year just started. I think my doctor will order whatever tests I want, but I want to be prudent considering the expense and all. I HAVE to feel better soon. I’m just dragging and rest doesn’t seem to help. Anyway, I’m not thinking well right now, so any ideas as to where to start? I’m beginning to think this feeling of feverishness and weak eyes may be due to too much T3 in my system rather than from Lyme. See, that complictes things further. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I’m going to call doc tomorrow to see if i can get some estimates for blood tests. I need hormones checked too. I know it all has to be balanced to work right. Thanks to everyone who sends their comments. Wishing good health to all.
I hear all kinds of good reviews on Nature-Throid….has anybody on this board used it and not had success? I am asking because I switched from the “new” Armour (which my bloodwork indicated my TSH at 3.87) to Nature-Throid (which my bloodwork went to 13.00). My doc used the equivalent on the conversion table posted by Nature-Throid. Has anbyody needed more NT than Armour?
I will be curious to see where my levels are at next blood draw in about 4 weeks. Also, has anybody taken a supplement called Thyromine? If so, I would like to hear your comments. I am having a horrible time trying to shed the pounds that seem to keep coming!
What Thyroid Medication is Someone Using? – For Misty
Hi Misty, I had emailed a few weeks ago, and asked the same question that you did regarding what the original author of the post on thyroid medications was now using. I was told that she is using Naturethroid and is feeling fine on it. From what I’ve been able to find out people who want to use a natural thyroid are now usually using one of these options:
1. Naturethroid – easiest to get and the least expensive
2. Erfa – From Canada – possibly less strong than the Naturethroid but has less fillers in it. So you may need to increase your dose. Has the sugar in it so it’s been said to taste like the “old” Armour
3. Compounded natural thyroid from a compounding pharmacy – most expensive, and depending upon the fillers that your pharmacy uses, may not be as effective as options #1 or #2. Also more difficult to adjust or moderate one’s dose
If you decide on one of these options Misty, please let me know, as I’m trying to make a decision what to do now and would love feedback from those who are in the same boat. I’m kind of leaning towards trying the Naturethroid first….
Von & Natalie-
That is great news and based on what people are saying you should feel better soon. “Knock on wood” I have been on Nature-Throid for about 10 days now and so far so good. I have an appointment on the 12th of Nov. with my new endo. and will get blood work done. I don’t think my dose is right yet, but it is far better than the Armour. Still not able to discern if some of the symptoms are thyroid or menopausal related. Will discuss that with the endo.
Good luck to you and keep us posted on your progress.
I just started with my Erfa thyroid this week and I think I am feeling much better after only a few days. I’m not quite so tired, and it’s much easier to get out of bed in the morning. And things seem easier to do “task wise” at work, so I’m optimistic that I made the right choice. Von, could you please update when you get your Erfa and then report in with how you feel once you start taking it?
Re: Erfa On the Way
Hi Von, Gosh that is good news. I’m getting my Armour prescription changed tomorrow to Naturethroid. It would be so nice to exchange notes about how we do with the other natural thyroid medicines. I am going to try the Naturethroid first because it is less expensive and I can get it quicker, but I guess if that doesn’t work I will try the Canadian one
Do you mind sharing how you decided to try the Canadian thyroid? Have you ever tried the Naturethroid natural thyroid?
I am hoping I can get my prescription tomorrow morning an hopefully the drugstore will have my thyroid medication in stock so that I don’t even have to take the Armour tomorrow.
Good luck to you and I’m hoping that you will have a good experience in resolving your symptoms using the Canadian thyroid.
Re: Canadian Thyroid on the Way
Hello Von, That’s great that your Erfa, the Canadian Thyroid is on it’s way to you. I can’t wait to hear how you feel after changing. One thing that may help in the meantime is to get a prescription for Cytomel and then ask your doctor while you are waiting if you can take the Cytomel (which is a T3) synthetic hormone along with the Synthroid which is the T4. Sometimes this can help people who are needing to wait to get their natural thyroid medicines shipped out to them. The T3 in the Cytomel generally works right away to help you feel better. It is the hormone the T3 responsible for energy, metabolism etc. If our bodies don’t convert the T4 in the Synthroid to the T3 which we need, it can cause more of the hypothyroid symptoms.
I don’t really know why they choose pigs except that I think I remember hearing years ago that the pig thyroid gland has all the elements like T1, T3, T4 and calcitonin like our thyroid’s would have. But if anyone else knows more about this or a better answer that would be very interesting to know.
Now, after stopping the Armour and taking only Synthroid the last week and a half (until the Thyroid comes in from Canada), I’m having carpal tunnel symptoms like when I first developed hypothyroidism, in addition to the other symptoms. I just wanted to mention it in case anyone else has the same problem. I wonder how many people out there with carpal tunnel have undiagnosed thyroid problems.
I just hope and pray the Erfa brand works well for me. It seems to be such an individual thing. BTW, does anyone know why they choose pigs to get the desiccated thyroid from? Why not some other animal, I wonder. Best wishes to all.
Re: Armour Made My Symptoms Come Back- What To Do
Michele, thanks for the update and it’s so good to hear that you are doing better and some improvements are already happening with your switch to Naturethroid. I know exactly what you mean about not wanting to use Armour again—after what they did.
For anyone wondering “what” to do, I think your first priority must be to change thyroid medications if your current one whether it’s the new Armour or something else isn’t working for you. We all know how being hypothyroid makes us feel, and it also has implications on our health if we let our bodies be continually in a hypo state. We can write letters till the cows come home, but #1 priority IMO is to work on getting on another thyroid med that you can try–and see if you feel better. Once you’re feeling better you can decide what actions you wish to take if any about notifying Forest Labs about how the new Armour made you feel.
Many people as Michele has posted, have done well with NatureThroid, others are using Erfa, the Canadian thyroid that they mail order from Canada. Still others are ok with getting a natural thyroid compounded, but this is normally the most expensive choice and depending upon the fillers that your pharmacy uses–may not work for you either. So my opinion is that if you wish to stay on natural dessicated thyroid, that a good 1st line choice would be to either try Naturethroid or Erfa….
Update – started the Nature-throid Thursday afternoon (10/28)
After going into Hyperthyroidism and off Armour for 13 days my body went into very low Hypothyroidism.
I did not want to go back on Armour even if it was the lowest grain, not after what they did that caused all my problems.
My Dr. started me on Nature-throid at 1 pill 1 day 2 pills the next day alternating each day.I will be doing this for 2 weeks and we will go by how I feel. Bloodwork in 4 weeks.
I have already noticed some improvements – I’m now able to sleep almost all night, the palpitations gone, hourrah!
Best to All
Where to Order the Canadian Thyroid
Hi Misty,
Here’s some info about how to get the Efra (Canadian Thyroid Medication). It looks like most of the people here are using Universal Drugstore (a Canadian Pharmac) to order their Efra. You don’t need a Canadian doctor but you do need a prescription from your doctor to order it. The prescription must be written in this manner:
Natural Dessicated Thyroid Medication (have your doctor write the strength in grains, not MG) For example
1,2,3, grains (or whatever the # of grains you need) once a day or however many times you need to take it
You can then fax the prescription to Universal Drugstore, they will give you the fax number when you call and also instruct you on what other forms to fill out so that you can have your medication shipped to you.
Re: Compounding Thyroid Medication Didn’t work for me….
Hi Misty, I had a lot of trouble using the compounded thyroid medication also. I’m not sure what filler your pharmacy uses, but I guess that’s supposed to make a difference. I’m going to change to Naturethroid and if for some reason that doesn’t work will be trying the Canadian Thyroid.
I think it’s posted how you can get it, and I’m going to lunch soon and when I’m on my lunch hour, I’ll look it up for you and repost it here so that it’s easier for you to find.
I am also very much suffering with this problem. i have tried compounding thyroid and its still not working.
the author of the post said she has tried somthing that is working,how can we find out what it is?
Misty
How can i get ERfa? do i need a canadiandoctor?
Augusta, I’m diappointed to hear you haven’t lost weight on the Erfa. I have put on 8 pounds recently on the Armour and have just ordered some Canadian Thyroid from Universal Drugstore (I think is the name), so I’m hoping the change will help me lose that. It’s all so very complex. Mine cost $19 for 100 tablets, 60 mg. I also take Synthroid, so my dosage isn’t that high. But did the change from Armour help with most problems you were having with it?
As for the HRT, it seems you could take that and adjust thyroid meds as needed. Personally, I cannot do without HRT. I get nauseau and acne, etc. My doctor prescribes a cream made up of progesterone, three kinds of estrogen, and testosterone that is compounded by a pharmacy, Women’s International. However, of late, I’ve noticed unwanted hair growth and am wondering if it’s the change in my thyroid as a result of the Armour or if they could have gotten the formula wrong. I’ll probably have to call about that. Regardless, something has really messed up my system, whether it be the new Armour or the hormone cream or eating wheat or whatever.
Since I’ve suspected the Armour has caused my recent problems with weight gain and other hypo symptoms, I’ve been taking just the equivalent in Synthroid and am waking up with extremely dry eyes that hurt a lot. I’m getting the same thing tonight. So I can see that Synthroid alone will not work for me. It’s almost like before I went on medication. I remember having great difficulty getting my eyes open in the mornings. I don’t know whether anyone else has experienced that. I envy those who can take Synthroid and go about their merry way, feeling fine and doing whatever they want.
Someone wrote in response to my earlier post, so I’m going to try to find that one and respond. I wish you much luck, Augusta.
Janelle, I have a similar pattern sometimes. If my work schedule is busy, for instance, and I have to really push myself, I seem to be able to make it through that time but will pay for it days later. I wonder if it’s an adrenal thing, that they’re just not able to keep up. My mom often has the same pattern even though hers days are pretty much the same. i would love to know what causes it. It makes it difficult for me to plan things because I never know how I’m going to feel. If you find out, please let me know.
Von
Bethanie, thank you for your comments. I don’t have any recent lab tests. My doctor relies heavily on muscle testing, but he would order whatever I want, I think. Problem is, my new ins. has a $1200 deductible, and I just hate to go there so early in the current cycle. For me, when I was first diagnosed, my blood tests were normal. My antibodies were boderline. Yet, I had had a goiter for years and a strong family history. It was hard to find someone who would treat me. But I’ve read that if your tests didn’t reflect your true thryroid state before, they most likely won’t be a true indicator of what’s going on now. My TSH is always low end. There was one time that my T3 was high and he had to reduce my dosage. But I still don’t have full confidence in the blood tests. If it weren’t for the large deductible, I would though. I need to feel better so I can get my work done!
Question: Has anyone felt sure the return of their hypo symtoms was because of the new Armour and then found out it was something entirely different? I take Vit D already, and I have been tested for B12 deficiency. I’m not sure how that relates to the ferritin you talk about on here. I also take B 100 Complex vitamins two to three times a day, per doctor’s orders. I wonder if that would cover my iron/B12 needs.
I welcome any tidbits of info anyone has. Thanks to you all for sharing.
Von
RE: Feeling Better on NatureThroid – for Frances
Frances, gosh I got so engrossed in thinking about your ferritin question that I forgot the most important part.
I am so glad that you are feeling better on the NatureThroid. That’s really great. Now it will just be a challenge to make sure you can get everything else tested and checked out, and to make sure that you’re on an appropriate dose of your thyroid medication. It’s amazing how too much or too little thyroid meds can make us feel miserable.
But it’s great news and so wonderful to get this news on a Friday night too:-) That will just make my weekend much better, knowing that you are seeing some improvement. Thanks so much for sharing that.
Re: Why Do We Need Ferritin Tested When We Have Thyroid Issues?
Hi Frances, I know what you mean. Some days I’m not so sure what’s harder. Dealing with hypothyroidism or dealing with doctors. Sigh:-) Here’s just a few reasons why we need ferritin tested.
1. You can have normal serum iron levels and low (storage iron) and ferritin tests for the storage iron
2. Low thyroid levels or being diagnosed with hypothyroidism may cause your body to produce less hydrocholoric acid. If you have lowered levels of hydrochloric acid–guess what, your body may not be able to absorb iron properly. Additionally, there can be problems with too few red blood cells being made, and lowered body temps. And finally, hypothyroid patients may also have increased menstrual bleeding–resulting in more iron being lost from the body.
Furthermore, low end iron levels can affect how T4 is converted to T3 (this process called deiodinase is decreased with low iron levels)
3. Additionally, low ferritin is like an early warning sign. It is the most accurate test to predict the progression into full blown anemia. If there was a test you could do to help determine if you were close to becoming anemic, wouldn’t you want to take that test, before actually progressing all the way into anemia? If you don’t have any warnings, and you do become anemic, then many of the symptoms of anemia itself, can mimic being hypothyroid. So even if you are on thyroid medicine and start having symptoms like increased heart palpitations, depression, exercise intolerance, loss of sex drive, painful muscles and joints, tachycardia or increased heart rate, and foggy thinking, you may assume that you are not on enough thyroid medication or that the medicine itself is not working. And if the ferritin is low, you can also have trouble raising your thyroid medication to where it needs to be without having hyper symptoms.
4. Iron levels that are too low can affect the first two out of the three steps necessary for thyroid hormone synthesis. This happens because iron comes in and can reduce thyroid peroxidase, which is an enzyme which needs iron. Low iron levels can also cause increases in one’s TSH and also has an affect on the binding ability of T3, which is the active thyroid hormone.
Furthermore, there are more than 100 years of studies indicating that low ferritin can cause problems in a variety of patient populations. Athletes have been known to have decreased athletic performance and decreased exercise tolerance once their ferritin levels are in the (low but NORMAL) range. So even though most of us may not be trying to win the next Olympics, can you imagine if low ferritin levels are affecting how athletes feel and perform, how we as ordinary citizens will feel if our levels are low and we are also having to deal with being hypothyroid?
Summary: You need optimal ferritin for T4 to T3 conversion. Low ferritin can make you feel like you are hyperthyroid with elevated pulse/fatigue. However, low ferritin is common to hypothyroidism because of slowed gut/digestion and decreased gastric acid production necessary for iron absorption. So, anyone whose doctor is under-medicating them and keeping them hypothyroid is not helping their patients by not getting the thyroid medication optimized. But you need to test and treat the ferritin — not just the thyroid because this all works together.
Carin/Bethanie-
Good afternoon all. I have a favor to ask – when you are answering some of the recent posts could you give us an explanation why we need to have some of these tests such as ferritin. Trying to explain this to some of these doctors is next to impossible.
Update – started the Nature-throid Saturday (10/23) I have already noticed some improvements – the constipation issue was cleared up by Sunday afternoon!!!! Hurray-
Thanks to all for your help & support.
Frances
Good Morning
I have just read everyones posts and I am so pleased! However I have some questions…..I have switched from Armour to Erfa and it is just ok, I have not had my labs checked since I have been on it I am just going by how i feel. My only problem is that I put on 20 pounds at the end of taking Armour and after a year of taking Erfa I have not lost any weight!! The other thing is that it is expensive, I spend $100 everytime I get a refill. Thaat is for a three month supply. Does anyone get it any cheaper and what Canadian Pharmacy are you getting it from? Also Is anyone from Ohio and who do you Doctor with that helps? I have a hard time finding one who will listen. Also I have had a hysterectomy about 5 years ago and do not take any HRT because of the way it changes my thyroid levels. Doing identical hormone testing is so expensive I am looking for any suggestions. I do see a chiroprctor that deal with my nutritional supplements and needs on a monthly basis. Please help.
P.S.
the new Armour is bad bad stuff!!!
Thanks,
Augusta
Re: Going Hyper with New Armour Thyroid
Michelle, welcome to our thyroid group. It sure sounds like you’ve been through so much with the new Armour. I am very sorry that you’ve gone through that.
Bethany will be helping out tomorrow. She had to be away from the computer today so I told her I’d help out. Then I had to work late…so just getting back to you. I think Bethany will probably have some good ideas about other things to look at. What I know she’ll probably say is to ask you if you’ve had ferritin tested, as well as to ask that you list your ranges for your labs, so that she can see those. Also, probably a Reverse T3 as well as some antibody tests may be a good thing for you, but Bethany has more knowledge on that, so just to let you know she’ll answer your post tomorrow.
And in the interim, if you could post your lab ranges along with the amounts, that will be very helpful. Thanks Michelle.
Re: Getting Armour Tested
Hi TinaS, When you find out how much this is to do would you mind sharing? I wonder if we could round up someone who has their “old” Armour…. Just seems so weird that the old version worked so wonderfully for most patients yet this one…well you know.
Inconsistencies with Armour: TinaS, that’d be soooo interesting if you could have it tested. I didn’t even think about that because I thought it would be way to expensive to do. Wish I had kept some of my old Armour. That’d be really, really interesting to compare the old Armour in an anlysis vs the new.
Michelle, normally I think people are having trouble with the new Armour in terms of being too hypo not hyper, but I guess if there are problems with the actual product or formula who knows how it will make you feel. I think one of the moderators will be able to give you some more insight on this but if I had gone through all that you have, I would really think about changing to Naturethroid or the Canada one. I’m on the Naturethroid and I’m doing pretty well on it. I dont’ know if it’s exactly like the old Armour, but I don’t feel hyper or hypo, and my weight is finally stabilized. When I was on the new Armour, I kept gaining weight. I’ve lost what I’ve gained and am holding steady so I guess that’s a good sign!
Also, a big welcome Michelle to our thyroid group. I’m sorry your ‘re having such troubles —but it’s good to have you here.
Sounds to me as if the problem is one of inconsistent formulation, which, I had gathered was the reason the FDA cracked down on them and why they reformulated. I’m thinking about taking some of the 90mg I’m on to an independent lab for them to find out whether or not I’m actually getting 90mg of Armour, or a few milligrams of Armour and the rest filler!
Michele here again.
I forgot to mention that I also lost 20 pounds, something I did not need to do as all was fine before.
Has anyone else gone into Hyperthyroidism after taking the Armour reformulation?
I had my thyroid removed in 1986 and I have been on Armour 90mg 2 times a day since 1986. Everything was perfect, the way I felt and the numbers. The new reformulation sent my numbers sky high: T4 1.78,
T3 195, TSH 0.006 + my cortisol went high26.2. Now the feelings: heart palpitations, sweats, anxiety, hairloss, depression. My immunity system went all out of shape. I ended up with fever blisters and shingles all in 4 months. After 24 years of being Hypothyroidism I went into Hyperthyroidism. I have been taken completely of Armour for now 11 days and waiting for my body to go back into Hypothyroidism.
I need to decide if I will change to Nature-Throid or look into that ERFA Thyroid that they sell in Canada. From what I read the compositions is supposed to be like the old Armour.
Can I trust Armour again after all these years and after what they did, is what I need to ask myself. This is my health and life they have been playing around with. I want them back.
How can Forest Pharmaceutical do a reformulation and not let Pharmacies, The Boards of Oncologists, and people know about the change and how it could affect us all. I am so upset and angry about this for of all us who are suffering from their irresponsibility.
Thanks Everyone for posting your info about the Armour reformulation. Very helpful.
Armour after they changed it was a bummer for me too. Could never get it to work despite months of trying. Didn’t make any difference if I took it sublingually or not, but I kept using it thinking it would eventually work. Guess it was because it had worked so well for me for many, many years.
Finally, I woke up and saw reality and just decided to do something about being miserable on the new Armour. I’ve switched to Naturethroid and couldn’t be more happy about it. Just wish I had made the change a lot earlier.
Naturethroid is not expensive and my insurance company covers the medication, although I think the last time that I got my prescription filled it was less than 30.00 even if my insurance had not paid for it for a 3 month supply. And I am on a fairly high dose of thyroid medication.
For anyone who’s hoping that the new Armour will somehow magically start working for them, I’m sorry but I don’t think that’s going to happen. Really the best option that we have I think as thyroid patients is that if something isn’t working–to try something else.
Hi Everyone,
There seems to be a pattern here….Armour Thyroid isn’t working, is it? I’ve gone from 15mg to 90mg in 10 months, and I’m at the point of upping the dose yet again to105mg. It’s ridiculous. From feeling pretty good on the 90mg, to the point my hair and nails started to grow again, the weight stabilized and started to come off at a healthy rate, and the fog cleared, but today my hair and nails are breaking, my weight is climbing to the highest it’s ever been, although my diet is, if anything, even better than before, and I’m exhausted, all the time. My brain struggles to absorb what I’m reading and writing, and the palpitations are back. What the heck is going on? However, as you probably remember, my TSH is so low it is far below the lower limit of normal to the point that it’s practically zero, yet my basal temperature struggles to get higher than 97.4F. This morning it was 97.2F. If anyone knows the truth about this, please post it here for those of us who have few choices as to what our insurance will pay for, and do not have the money to pay for compounded dessicated thyroid, we need alternatives, and now! Many thanks.
Re: Having Problems with the New Armour – For Von
Hi Von,
There are many of us here who simply can’t take the new Armour anymore. It has caused lots of us to have heart palpitations and return of our hypothyroid symptoms.
Some however, who are still doing ok on it seem to have better luck by crushing the tablets and taking it sublingually and adding a bit of honey to that. I also take my NatureThroid that way. It seems to help with absorption and to get around the problem of the cellulose filler which can impact the absorbability.
If that doesn’t help in your case, you may want to try the NatureThroid or the Canadian Thyroid Efra. Some say the Canadian thyroid is just like the old Armour. It tastes the same and does not have any cellulose filler in it, so some people do better on that one. I think it was a bit weaker for me than the NatureThroid was. So if you are going to try the Canadian thyroid just know that you may need to adjust your dose.
And yes, the other thing that I suspect could be happening with the new Armour is that perhaps people are getting a build up of Reverse T3. Since many docs unfortunately, aren’t testing the Reverse T3, it is something that can cause havoc with your body because the T3 can’t get into the cells.
Do you have any recent labs? If you do and want some feedback feel free to post them and one of us can give you some feedback on them.
The biggest thing to know is that you’re not imagining this–there is a difference with the Armour, and you’re not alone. Finally, you don’t have to feel miserable and shouldn’t. So if you’re already having that much trouble I would definitely investigate some different brands of natural thyroid medication.
Night Sweats and Thyroid Troubles: For Frances
Hi Frances, I wrote all that and I forgot to finish my thoughts about the night sweats and then coldness. What I wanted to say is that see how things go for a few weeks on the NatureThroid. Then, if you’re still having those issues then you can address those issues after you see what changes if any, the thyroid medication will have.
I’m not sure if you mentioned your age, but if you are by any chance peri-menopausal, then this can also definitely have some effects on our bodies and the night sweats etc. But there are some things that can help with this over the counter, and one of my best resources is to find a good compounding pharmacist and ask them for their opinions, and also make sure to tell them what medications you are on so that you’re not taking anything that will interfere with your other meds. There are also some you can call in other states to get help on these things most of the time at no charge. If anyone needs the number of a good one that I use, just ask and I’ll post it.
And finally, I think you mentioned that your doctor wanted to re-test your labs in 8 weeks because of the 5mg increase in dose? If so, they really don’t know thyroid meds. 1 grain for some manufactures is 60 mg with others being 65 mg, but it is considered as the same dose, and would not be considered as reason to retest your labs.
If however, they wanted to increase your dose to 1.5 grains then that would be a reason to do retesting in 8 weeks.
Frances,
You can also divide the dose of NatureThroid–just like you were doing with the Armour Thyroid.
And I’m so glad that you’re feeling better. Magnesium glycinate also helps with constipation as well as energy etc.
And yes, you can take your NatureThroid sublingually. In fact, most say it works much better if taken that way.
I crush mine with a little pill crusher that I bought from the pharmacy. For me, this makes it easier than trying to use a spoon or something, and then I put the fine powder that I get after crushing in the side pocket of my mouth. I also add a little bit of honey which helps with absorption.
Re: your body temps and night sweats. You are correct in that everything is tied together, and probably the best thing to do is to see what happens with your NatureThroid as opposed to the Armour.
And it is quite common to have eczema and rashes from being hypothyroid. In fact, one of my friends was diagnosed with hypothyroidism from her dermatologist! This was after she went in for a problem she was having with rashes and she had seen lots of doctors for the past 2.5 years, including her family doctor, and oncologists, because she is a breast cancer survivor.
And NONE of them properly diagnosed her hypothyroidism until she went to see the dermatologist. Don’t you think that was awful?
The other suggestion Frances that I have for you, is to see if your doctor will prescribe 2 grains for you instead of one. And then use a pill splitter (which you can buy at the pharmacy) to take 1/2 of a tablet. The reason for this is two-fold. It depends upon which pharmacy you are using, but generally the cost of a 2 grain tablet is the same as a one grain. This could vary according to the pharmacy used, but even if the 2 grain is slightly more, which in my case, it is not, it is nice to have the prescription written for 2 grains, because it is #1 less costly to do so.
I just ask my doctor to prescribe it that way because it is the same price and much more cost effective to do so.
The other thing that this will do for you, is give you some flexibility in changing/adjusting your dose. So for example, if you are on the 1 grain for a few weeks, and your temps are still low, and you still have symptoms, you can, ask your doctor if you can increase by 1/4 of a grain and see if that helps. Without having to make another appointment, go in, talk to them, and then ask for an increase.
There are some doctors in my area who actually tell their patients to feel free to go up by 1/4 of a grain after a few weeks, but they are also taught how to monitor for symptoms of having too much thyroid hormone and they are told to chart their temps etc, to make sure that they are not getting too much.
I don’t want anyone to read this and think that adjusting their thyroid medication is something they should do on their own. It should be done with the approval of your doctor, but many times the good thyroid docs know that with the proper education (ie: knowing how to monitor for hyper thyroid symptoms) patients can stay in touch with their physicians and make some small adjustments with the blessing of their doctors in their thyroid medications. You never want to raise more than 1/4 of a grain at a time, but having some flexibility to do can help speed up the process.
I suspect Frances with your labs, that the 65mg dose is going to still be too low for you, but hopefully your new endo will not dose by the TSH but will look at the Free T3, Free T4 and your symptoms to make adjustments.
Just know that all natural dessicated thyroid hormone medications can and do cause the TSH to normally be very low, but that’s not the number that your physician should be concerned with. Unless it’s too high, which is another story altogether.
It’s just so common for someone to finally start feeling better on NatureThroid, Efra, or a compounded thyroid and for their TSH to get very low and suppressed, but still have lower Free T3 and Free T4 numbers, and then their doctor freaks out, and decides to lower the thyroid hormone, which doesn’t do the patient any good. Because in conventional medical education they really don’t spend much time on learning how the different thyroid meds can affect patients, and all they are taught is to go by the TSH–it can really slow down or deter one’s progress to have a physician who worships the TSH, instead of going by Free T3, Free T4, and symptoms. (And testing Reverse T3) and some of the other things I mention like the thyroid antibodies, ferritin, B12, etc.
Definitely the ferritin will be important for you to test if you’ve had heart palpitations in the past, because if your ferritin is low, then it will be difficult for you to raise your thyroid med without getting that ferritin up.
On the B12, just know that if you’ve been supplementing, the serum B12 test will be inaccurate, and your doctor will need to do the
Urinary MMA test
Serum Homocystine
and if she wants the serum B12
In someone who is already supplementing, I suggest that it is ok not even to do the serum B12 because that sometimes just confuses the doctor’s or other doctors if they are not aware of the inaccuracy of that test, and just to stick with the urinary MMA test and the serum homocysteine test.
And on your Vitamin D that you are taking. You want to take Vitamin D with your highest fat meal of the day. Also, if it continues to be so low, you would want to see about perhaps trying a liquid Vitamin D3 and/or seeing if you can increase that to 10,000 iu a day (with your physician’s permission) for a few weeks, then get tested again, and then drop it back to around 5,0000 iu a day, especially since we are going into the winter months. Just to warn you, sometimes the physicians are not that educated either about the importance of Vitamin D3. If that is low, then it can not only exacerbate the fatigue of a thyroid disorder, but it can cause aches/pains, depression, and affect the overall functioning of your entire immune system. The last thing you want to do is to be too conservative on your dosing of Vitamin D going into the flu season, because your doctor doesn’t understand the importance of it.
Sometimes patients will do better if they find a more holistic type phsyician like a Doctor of Osteopath who understands the importance of Vitamin D3 who can prescribe thyroid medication and then just skip the endocrinologist. Not to put a damper on your upcoming visit, but just know that most of us are not that successful using an endocrinologist. If for some reason you are not pleased with your visit, then I do have a fairly successful formula on how to find a doctor and the questions to ask and where to get recommendations on good doctors. Just let me know if you need that at any point, and I will post it.
Finally, as I said at the beginning you can split your dose of Naturethroid, however, because everyone’s different sometimes people will feel better taking it all at once, instead of splitting it. Or sometimes, when they need to increase their dose, they may take 1 grain in the morning, and 1/4 or 1/2 in the afternoon. Funny enough sometimes just adjusting whether or not you split your medication will have an effect on how you feel.
Sorry for the long winded post. I’ve been away too long and have missed everyone:-)
Hope that helps and I hope that your new endo is different and really is willing and capable enough to help you:-) Please keep us posted!
RE: Welcome Newbies
Von & Lucy, welcome from a newbie. Please don’t get discouraged and yes family & friends look at you strangely. Because you don’t go out looking like “death” and mustering every ounce of energy to put up a good front – sometimes they think you are exaggerating. Anyway – keep reading and researching and asking questions!!! I was amazed at how un-informed (uncaring????) the primary care medical profession is. FINALLY got my scrip for Nature-throid and started it Saturday morning (was on Armour). Actually think some things have improved – constipation seems to be abating!!!!!
Bethanie has been very helpful and I’m sure your questions will be addressed by someone – thank goodness we are not in this alone.
Stay strong-
Re: Welcome to the Thyroid Patient/Patient Discussion Group!
Hello Von and Lucy,
Just wanted to thank you both for joining our discussion group and to welcome you! So glad you’ve joined us. I’ll write more later to you either later tonight or tomorrow. I’m a bit backed up on my messages because I had a family member who was ill—but I’m hoping that things will settle down this week and my schedule will be back to normal.
It is true that getting these thyroid meds can take a bit a juggling, but please don’t lose hope. There are many here who have come on feeling really discouraged and after either changing their medication, or getting additional tests, and/or treating some of the other things that can go along with thyroid problems like the Vitamin D, B12, ferritin etc…..you can definitely feel better again.
Anyway, just wanted to send a personal welcome out to you both, and there’s tons of other folks on the board here who are thyroid patients who also share some really great tips. Von, thanks for the info on the soy—you are so right that too much soy can send us into a tailspin. And really appreciate your mentioning that info:-)
Lucy,
Are you having hypothyroid symptoms too? I have cold hands but feel feverish in the evenings. Too much hormone, I know, will cause that, but then my other symptoms are hypo. This is all so confusing and discouraging. I just want to sleep . . .
BTW, does anyone feel that family members and friends think you’re a hypochondriac? I hate to have to say I don’t feel up to doing something, and it seems I say it a lot these days. My sister told me I read too much and maybe I “imagine” these things. My mom has been on Synthroid for most of her adult life and has never felt well consistently, but I don’t think even she understands. Since I have a job that demands 70 hours a week sometimes, I can’t afford to have all those bad days. Right now all my days are bad days. Anyway, not to complain. I was just wondering if others feel like friends and family just don’t understand. Sometimes I just want to crawl under a rock and hide and not have to deal with anyone’s expectations.
Von
Re: Armour change
I’m new here also and this weekend have been trying to read as much as I could about everyone else’s experiences with Armour. I too, had contacted both my doctor and pharamacist and thought I had a bad batch of medicine. It’s frustrating to know that I’ve been asking about this for months and not one of my medical providers knew anything about this. Well, at least I know now. Thanks to all of you for talking about your experiences. This will be a big help to me I’m sure as I try to decide what to do about changing thyroid medications.
I appreciate all the posts I’ve found here. I just went to the doctor this week because I was not getting better after the cold I came down with four or five weeks ago. I thought the cold had weakened my system and allowed my Lyme disease to flare up, but normally it lasts about a week and then gets better. The doctor thought I had contracted some viruses and that’s why I was feeling so bad. My symptoms have included weight gain and fluid retention, which I thought may be because of my increase in Cortef several months ago; fatigue and weakness to the point I couldn’t go to the gym anymore; the usual brain fog, which is typical of hypothyroidism and Lyme; constipation and other intestinal problems; burning eyes (best way I can describe it); elevated blood pressure, 140/74 (has always been low before); chest pain for about three weeks, which then went away; and a dull headache, which again I thought was because of Lyme. But after my dr. visit the other day, I started thinking, gee, this is a whole lot like before I started on thyroid meds — no get-up-and-go!
So I called the pharmacist to see if I could have gotten a bad batch of Armour. He said he had had no complaints. So I did a search for “bad batch of Armour” and found all these posts about the reformulation. I checked my prescription bottle, and it said it was originally filled 6/2/10. It has been since that time that I’ve put on 8 pounds and gradually declined in health. There was a long time that I couldn’t get Armour at all and had used a pharmacy-compounded formula. It worked fairly well, but I thought I could see an improvement when I first started back on the Armour. Now I’m highly suspect that I, too, am having a reaction to the new formula/fillers. Just FYI, I did have a problem with the 30 mg. Armour a few years back and the doctor had to prescribe the 60 and 90 mg. I have been doing .112 of Synthroid and 60/90 (alternating) of the Armour. I’m thinking that my symptoms are less pronounced than some because I wasn’t taking just Armour. And I find it interesting that someone said she felt both hypo and hyper. That’s kind of how I feel too. I’m wondering if the new Armour allows the buildup of too much T3 somehow. I did pure T3 in the beginning, thinking I had Wilson’s Syndrome, but my body didn’t tolerate it well. I had the burning eyes and felt feverish, which I’ve also felt recently. I also have heart palpitations, which become scary at times.
Also, for those who don’t know, be careful with soy. I was consuming too much and started feeling bad and having pain in the area of my thyroid. I finally remembered reading something about soy being a thyroid suppressant and was able to put it all together. My doctor, who also does alternative medicine, confirmed that I needed to stay away from the soy. It really upsets my tummy too.
I sympathize with all who are struggling with their health. It’s been a roller-coaster ride for me for the last ten years. First menopause, then hypothyroid (with normal blood tests), then adrenal fatigue, candidiasis, and Lyme. All have overlapping symptoms, so it’s hard to know what’s what. I wish everyone good luck. Oh, I think I’m going to ask my dr. for the Canadian Thyroid. It appears to be the next best choice from the old Armour.
Von
Good afternoon All:
If all goes according to schedule I will be starting on Nature-throid Saturday!!!!
QUESTION: I have been taking my Armour sublingually and dividing the dose AM & PM. Is it necessary to divide the NT dose or take it all at once? Can I continue to take it sublingually?
I also have a question about the issue I have with body temp. My temp 1st think runs about 96.5. I spend most of the night adding and removing bed cloths! When I get a real bone deep chill I am almost guaranteed of a spike in body temp. Thought they were just hot flashes and night sweats – but know I’m not so sure. I can guarantee this will happen at 2 & 4 AM along with several during the day. Any thoughts??? I know the endocine system is tied together – what is it with the docs???????
Hope the rash I have developed in the last few weeks will go away with the change in my meds.
Thanks to all, am so grateful I found this site!!
Frances
(ps – you can also obtain Nature-throid through the pharmacy @ Wal-Mart)
Bethanie-
Thanks so much for the feed back. I have had an opportunity to go through your list, but before I answer those questions I have some great news:
My Doctor FINALLY called in a new script for – Nature-throid 65 mg today!!!! Will be filled by tomorrow afternoon. She wouldn’t do so until she spoke to the endo. Dr. I have an appointment with in November. I know she was not crazy about it but – TOO BAD!
When my Vitamin D was tested it was in March and it was the 25-OH D. Unfortunately I live in New Hampshire, have red hair, green eyes and “glow in the dark” skin. I even had sun poisoning many years ago – so. I am currently taking over 4,200 IU of Standard Process vitamin d (tablet). Just increased by 800 IU when we changed seasons and yes it is D3. I have been supplementing for over a year now. (I am also taking a B12)
From what I can see from my labs Ferritin has never been tested. I have added that to my “list”. I requested the free T3 on the last lab test but alas it was not done and no one has done R T3.
The doctor’s (pc) office wants my TSH re-tested in about 8 weeks because of the 5 mg increase. I have an appointment with the endocrinologist around the 15th of November and will ask (demand) that we do the tests sooner and will ask that she order the following as well-
Vitamin D
Ferritin (full panel if I can get it)
TPO
Free T3
Reverse T3
B12 (complete)
If I have missed anything – let me know. I have spoken to this new endocrinologist and she seems easy to deal with and open to what her patients want and need. (I called last week to see if she was open to the Nature-throid. She actually called me on Monday at 7:45 AM. She’s prefers synthetic but does have patients on desiccated)
Thanks again Bethanie for your help. I would appreciate any feedback or suggestions anyone has – it makes doctor’s appointments easier when you are well armed!!
Good health to all
Thanks again,
Frances
Re: Ordering Naturethroid
Hi Carin, thank you very much for posting the info for how to order Naturethroid when your pharmacy doesn’t know how to get it. I’m in a smallish type town, not that small, but I guess in larger places they must know more about the Naturethroid than they do here. I’ll give Clarke’s a call tomorrow to see if they can ship out my thyroid medicine. Thanks a lot again for all your help!
Re: Is The Old Armour Back
Hi Donna, I’ve just called Forest Labs and they’ve confirmed that they are not currently using the Old Armour, but rather the new kind, and have no plans to revert back to the older Armour formula.
I sure wish it was not the case, but I don’t want anyone to hold out false hope about this. If for some reason you did get a prescription refill that was like the old in terms of taste, smell, texture, it’s likely that it was an older stock version of the old Armour.
Has anyone heard if Armour is going to go back to the old kind? Or if it could already have gone back?
I’ve been reading on some other sites that say Armour thyroid is going back to the older version. The last time I refilled my prescription it seemed softer, more sweet and had that old familiar smell. I wonder if it could possibly be true that the company is going back to the better, old type version.
Anyone know anything about this?
RE: Clarke’s Pharmacy: Where to Get NatureThroid Via Mail Order
Here you go Jessica.
Clarke’s Pharmacy
36889 North Tom Darlington Drive
Carefree, AZ 85377
(480) 488-2007
They have always had NatureThroid in stock anytime I’ve needed to order it. And they’re very nice people, have good prices, and low shipping costs. Probably not an issue this time of year, but since I don’t know where you’re writing from here’s some info just in case.
During the summer months I ask them to ship out the thyroid medication in a cold pack (gel pack) so that the medication isn’t exposed to 100 degree or more heat. Thyroid medication is senstive to heat, so I think it’s worth the extra few dollars to make sure that when it gets to me it’s not degraded by the heat.
You can ask Clarke’s about this option if you want it. During the fall/winter months it’s not so much an issue.
Re: Nature Thyroid and Armour Thyroid
Hi Carin, thank you so much for helping me with my thyroid medicine question. I thought the pharmacists weren’t correct when they said Armour and Naturethroid were the same thing. I guess it’s the little things that make a difference when you’re talking about the thyroid right?
If you could please give me the info on the AZ pharmacy where they do carry the Naturethroid that would be so great. Thanks again for the assistance. Have a nice evening.
Re: Armour and Naturethroid are not the same
Hello Jessica, welcome to our thyroid patient/patient support group. Glad you’re here. Wow, I didn’t know that there’s still misinformation being given out by pharmacists.
Armour and Naturethroid are NOT the same. They are both natural dessicated thyroid hormone medications, but they are different manufacturers. And for whatever reason, when the Armour was changed from the older version to the newer version there seem to be many people who have problems with it. Most are doing better with Naturethroid now instead of Armour thyroid.
Whichever one you choose, should you choose one of them make sure you take them sublingually, and either crush the tablets or chew them very well. Adding a bit of honey if you’re taking them sublingually can help them dissolve quicker and be better absorbed.
There is a pharmacy in AZ where you can mailorder the NatureThroid. Many of us here on the support board have used them and they are very reliable and have reasonable prices. If you want me to post their contact info let me know and I’ll do so.
Thanks for posting your question and hope we see you back regularly!
Question about Getting NatureThroid
Hi everyone, well, I’ve just spent the last hour reading all I could. And I’m still not finished. What great tips you have for thyroid patients! I’m having a problem finding Naturethryoid however. I checked with five different pharmacies in my area and was told by all of them that Naturethryoid isn’t being made anymore but that I can get Armour thyroid because ‘it’s the same’.
Is that really true? I didn’t think Armour and Naturethroid are the same. Please help.
Re: Thyroid Testing Info
Thank you all so much for the help and for the support! Another Karen….that was so helpful for you to explain what can happen with thyroid patients in more details. THANK YOU!!!! Since I don’t feel great–although my doctor says everything is ‘fine’ I will also be pursuing getting additional thyroid testing. I’m so happy I found you all. Was starting to think I’d have to just toughen up and live with feeling bad–but now, maybe I can find a reason for the way I feel.
RE: Understanding more about thyroid and what medications to take
I can see that I have lots more reading to do. Wow, this is a fabulous source of information and the help that everyone gives each other is so encouraging. I have to get a copy of my own labwork because I haven’t felt like myself for quite a while. Yet when I go to the doctor I’m told that I am quite healthy. This is good to know but why should I feel so badly? I have so many of the symptoms that you all say happens with thyroid trouble. I’m glad that I found this info and will see if I can get more help to see if I could have a thyroid issue.
Re: Thyroid Testing
Another Karen…. wow, this was such great information. I’m new and was wondering the same things about testing for a thyroid issue. My doctor always says everything is in perfect order, but I sure don’t feel like it is. I can relate to the weight gain, and unrelenting fatigue. And I work out and eat well, so there’s no logical explanation for this and I just don’t accept that I should feel this way because I “may” be heading into the peri-menopausal period. So thank you for all the great pointers and tips. And how inspiring to hear that you are feeling back like yourself again. That is such terrific news, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping some of us newcomers to feel like maybe, just maybe, there is hope for us too!
Shawna, that depends on how well you respond to synthetic T4. Some people convert T4 to T3 well, and too many doctors act like everyone does. When you get a diagnosis of hypothyroidism, you’re usually told that you will feel perfectly fine and normal and your life won’t be affected beyond having to take a pill a day once they find the right dosage for you. That’s true–for people who respond well to synthetic T4 alone, whose thyroid function isn’t continuing to be reduced by the autoimmune attacks of Hashimoto’s.
That last part is somewhat problematic; I have been told for years that, once my medication was “right,” the loss of thyroid function would stop, although no doctor has ever answered my question about why that should be in a satisfactory way. The explanation is that the presence of sufficient thyroid hormone in the body stops the attacks–but if that were true, then why would anyone’s immune system ever attack the thyroid gland, since before the attacks, sufficient thyroid hormone should have been present? In my case, the symptoms worsened for years and I needed ever more medication. Now, that doesn’t seem to be true, and I am on the right dose of the right medication–but so many years have passed that I don’t know whether the medication has halted the attacks or I simply have no thyroid function left and am completely dependent on the medication.
In either case, if you’re not taking the right dose of the right medication and you have Hashimoto’s, you may well continue to need more medication. Some doctors test for the antibodies that point to Hashimoto’s only once, to confirm a diagnosis of Hashimoto’s (and some, shamefully, never do). Lab information about those tests indicates that diagnosis is their only use–but some doctors use them to monitor the effectiveness of treatment, because if the antibody levels are going up, that’s a problem.
The real bottom line is how you feel. If you feel fine and normal–if you feel “right” and like yourself–then you’re fine and you probably don’t need more labs.
But some people do not convert T4 to T3 (the active thyroid hormone) well. I’m one. People who don’t can continue to experience symptoms of hypothyroidism even when their TSH and T4 levels look fine. They may continue to gain weight, even if more slowly (and the weight gain can go way beyond the 30 pounds some doctors say is all the weight gain caused by hypothyroidism, which leads them to dismiss additional weight gain as a symptom). They may feel sluggish or fatigued or just not have their “normal” (pre-hypothyroidism) energy levels; have puffiness in their faces, feet, or hands or some combination thereof (for me, it was fingers, feet and ankles, and the throat/chin/neck and eye areas); continue to lose hair and eyebrows or not grow them back; experience reduced mental acuity, including (or only) problems with concentration and memory, which can be anything from minor absent-mindedness to having trouble thinking of words to much worse (I would literally forget what I was saying if I had to pause too long to think of a word, at my worst–that became just trouble thinking of words on synthetic T4, but it didn’t go away until I changed medication); suffer from depression; experience cold intolerance; have high cholesterol and triglycerides; suffer from constipation; experience menstrual problems; and just generally not “feel right.”. Of course, the symptoms of hypothyroidism are legion, but if the reading I’ve done is correct, some symptoms are more likely to persist if synthetic T4 alone isn’t effective.
So if your labs look fine and you *feel* fine, then those are probably enough tests. If your labs look fine and your doctor tells you that you ARE fine, but you don’t feel “like yourself,” then it might be a good idea to ask for more tests and consider adding synthetic T3 or switching to a natural thyroid medication that includes T3 and T4.
Some doctors will not do more tests. Some doctors will not prescribe natural thyroid medication. Some will prescribe Armour (which is great if it works for you) but not Nature-Throid, because they’re familiar with Armour only. I got lucky and found a doctor who was willing to research Nature-Throid when Armour changed its formulation and no longer worked for me.
If you feel fine, great. If you don’t, the sad truth is that many hypothyroid patients *must* educate and advocate themselves. Some know more about hypothyroidism than their doctors. Sometimes, you have to find a doctor who will listen or who knows a lot about thyroid issues. (Ironically, if widespread anecdotal evidence can be trusted, many endocrinologists are not a good choice, because many insist that everyone is fine on synthetic T4 and use only TSH to evaluate a patient’s condition, ignoring any and all symptoms the patient reports and assuming they have other causes–which can be true, but if you’re, say, gaining weight and feeling fatigued even though you eat right and exercise, losing hair, feeling cold all the time or having trouble getting warm once you’re cold AND you’re depressed–maybe it’s time for the doctor to consider thyroid involvement…)
And sometimes, patients are reluctant to walk away from doctors they trust. I hope that all is well with you and you feel terrific. If not, I would suggest that you ask about tests for T3, free T3, and Hashimoto’s antibodies (which some doctors call “inflammation markers”) and whether your doctor would consider either adding synthetic T3 or switching you to natural thyroid if those labs indicate that it might be a good idea. Reverse T3 is probably a good test, too, but many doctors won’t order it and/or don’t know how to interpret results, and some experts say that very few labs assay it correctly. If your doctor won’t order the tests; won’t give you the results in numbers and provide the lab’s reference range; or won’t even consider additional or different medication–and you trust your doctor and don’t want to change–please consider going (without telling your doc if you want to spare his or her feelings or not create conflict in the relationship) to a doctor who will prescribe natural thyroid medication for a second opinion. Most practices will tell you over the phone if the doctor is willing to prescribe Armour, and local pharmacies (especially if there is a compounding pharmacy in your area) may be willing to tell you which doctors will prescribe Nature-Throid. You’re not betraying your doctor by asking someone with a different philosophy toward the treatment of hypothyroid–and if your doctor’s opinion is confirmed, well and good. If not, then you have some food for thought.
Two things that helped me immensely in getting good treatment were taking a list of every symptom of hypothyroidism that I had, so that I wouldn’t forget any in the doctor’s office–and taking in photos of myself as an adult before the onset of symptoms. Sadly, doctors are as likely to be prejudiced toward overweight people as anyone else, and recent studies show that overweight patients do not always experience the same level of care as patients who are a normal weight. That study is recent, but on the advice of my mother, who is an RN, I took a bunch of photos spanning a number of years, in to my doctor–and sure enough, she gave up the idea that the weight gain was my “fault” or my weight was “normal” for me and started taking my hypothyroidism more seriously.
For lots of people, it really IS as simple as starting on synthetic T4, using TSH levels to find the right dose, and testing annually. I hope you’re one of those people. The problem for those of us who aren’t is that too many doctors who see a lot of those people don’t take the rest of us seriously. It is unbelievably frustrating to be dismissed as a hypochondriac or troublemaker or liar (“you just want more thyroid medication to lose weight, and that’s dangerous”), when YOU are the only one who knows what “normal” feels like for you–and you are not feeling normal. It can be easy to believe “this is as the best it gets, I can never feel normal,” especially if several doctors in a row dismiss you or fail to treat you adequately. But if that’s you–don’t give up. You CAN feel like your “normal” self again.
It took me over ten years and seven doctors, but I now wear the same pants size as in high school (and my pre-thyroid adult life), have as much energy as I ever did, and feel like ME again. If I had known at the beginning what I do now, it would have taken less time, because I’d have been quicker to walk away from doctors who promised sincerely to help me get to “normal” but would only consider synthetic T4 or would only look at certain tests.
So, the short version: Only you know if those tests are adequate. I hope you feel terrific. If you don’t, even after those labs say you should–don’t give up.
Re: Thyroid Tests What Are Needed
Hi Shawna, It is important to have the more updated thyroid testing which would include:
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
And both thyroid antibodies (TG) Thyroglobulin Antibodies and (TPO) Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies
Reverse T3 can also be helpful in certain circumstances
In addition to those tests, for thyroid problems getting a baseline on your ferritin level is also important, so adding in these:
Full Iron panel in including Serum Iron, TIBC, UIBC and serum Ferritin
Vitamin B12 is also helpful to test: the most accurate tests for Vitamin B12 are
urinary MMA
Serum Homocysteine
Serum B12 (All 3 are needed)
Hope that helps and welcome to our thyroid patient to patient discussion group.
Question about the thyroid tests for anyone who could help. Hi all, I was noticing that some of the tests that are listed here are different from what my doctor ordered. On my labwork it says only TSH and Free T4. Is this enough info to be helpful, or do I need to ask for the other tests that are listed?
Lab testing….
Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you all that I copied several articles that I have gotten off this site & gave them to the lab testing Dr. Hopefully she will read them & do a little research & hopefully she will see all of our comments.
Thanks Bethanie & Robin,
Sorry to have riled you up Bethanie but is that not crazy? The Dr. called me twice. Once to discuss some of the labs that I wanted done. She said she even discussed this with her attending. I wanted to say well I don’t really care. They both thought I should see a specialist like an endo. I told her that I saw one for 5 years @ the same hospital that she works at and that I probably would never see another one because he did not help me what so ever. Well I ended up getting Vit D checked but not the antibodies because she left a message for her assistant who obviously didn’t get the message in time. I even told the Dr. when I would be going to the clinic to pick up my slip to go to the lab. Oddly enough the Dr. called me about an hour or so after I my labs drawn to see if I had gotten them done yet to make sure the lab slip had everything on it. UGH. Like I said I do not use this Dr. for my thyroid treatment just to get my labs drawn & other minor stuff.
It was great chatting with you again too Bethanie. I still haven’t read either of the books that I bought & not sure when I will now because I just started a side business along with my 40 hr work week so I feel like I don’t have time for anything now….
Thanks again,
Karen
Re: Thyroid Lab Testing and Doctors
Keep on pushing for the lab tests you need ladies. I was finally diagnosed with Hashimotos after about 15 months of being miserable. I was told everything was just peachy also. So it does pay to be persistent and just keep on pushing for what you need.
Re: Labs and Doctor’s not wanting to order them
Hello Robin,
I know exactly how you feel. I had told my former doctor (yes I said former) he’s fired now, that I wanted to be tested for anything possibly related to thyroid trouble. My mother has Hashimotos and so does my sister. And I was having joint pain, of course the fatigue, and felt like my heart would race sometimes and then I was having trouble just getting up to go to work each day. Also my hair got really dry and coarse, and it starting falling out so much that my husband was commenting on it. And he doesn’t notice anything!
Anyway, my doctor insisted that I had no thyroid problem–all I got was the TSH and Free T4. Finally, when I went to visit a girlfriend of mine, I was telling her about my health problems and she made an appointment for me with her doctor. He tested TSH, and some other tests both Free T3 and the Free T4, and tested both antibodies. I can’t remember what the names of the antibody tests were, but he tested me for them, and I had antibodies that were elevated on both tests! So I do have Hashimotos. When I got home I had to find a new doctor. That was another ordeal to try to find someone who would treat me without using Synthroid. Yuck…that didn’t work at all for me.
I was on Armour until they changed it. Now am using the Naturethroid and I’m ok now. But I don’t think that some doctors should be telling us that they’re testing for everything when they’re obviously not.
Re: Doctor won’t order the correct labs for me either
I am soooo mad. I read Karen’s post yesterday and wouldn’t you know I had my doctor’s appointment today. All he will test is my TSH , even though I’ve had that tested loads of times before and they say “it’s normal”. I could just scream. I have thyroid problems in my family and ALL the symptoms, in fact I’m so sure that I have it, that I may just see if I can find a low cost clinic in town and pay for my own labs! How can they be so out of touch–the doctors that is?
Re: Another Way to Save Money on Lab Testing
Hey everyone, I almost forgot to mention this. If you have no health insurance sometimes you can get blood testing/lab work really inexpensively. My girlfriend’s husband lost his job and so right now they are both without heatlh insurance until he can find another job. Anyway, she has some health conditions (including a thyroid problem) and went to one of the low cost health care clinics in her city.
They offered lab testing for $8.00 each. Now, the doctors there although very nice didn’t really have any idea what thyroid tests to order so I gave her a list to write down and take in, and she was able to get everything she needed really inexpensively. That doesn’t mean every place you go will be willing to do all the labs you want, but it is another option for anyone who finds themselves without health insurance.
#2. The second thing that people can try is if their own doctor doesn’t want to order something because they are afraid that health insurance won’t cover it, is to just flat out ask them how much they would charge for it if you had to pay for the one test or whatever it is that you need that they won’t order for you, out of your pocket. It doesn’t mean you’re going to, it will just give you an idea of how much it could be if you decided just to get it through your own doctor and pay for it. And if you need a comparison done just to see if your doctor’s pricing is reasonable, just ask me and I can look up the wholesale pricing for the labwork so that you’ll know if the price you can get through your doctor’s office is reasonable.
But if your doctor is like Karen’s and just doesn’t want to order something because they don’t understand what to do if it’s out of range, then probably the best thing is to either see if you want to order it yourself or see if you can find another doctor who knows a bit more in the area of expertise that you need!
Re: Doctor Refuses to Do Certain Labs
Hi Karen, Hey, it’s great to talk to you again, but I sure wish it wasn’t because your doctor refuses to test some of the important labs. I know exactly what that feels like to be so angry that some of them just won’t do the testing that we need.
In the past sometimes I’ve just gotten the labs myself (and paid out of pocket) for them or I’ve switched doctors to find one who is more open to listening.
The thing is a regular CBC won’t show low ferritin, and low ferritin is one of the things we thyroid patients have a tendency to have–this not only makes it dificult for our thyroid medication to work well, but it makes it difficult to raise your thyroid med up to the level that you need it.
Besides, I just learned from another support group here that there have been studies for over 150 years where researchers have known that normal (this means within normal limits—but LOW normal) ferritin can affect one’s physical abilities to perform athletically. HMMMM— I said, so coaches and other researchers (one study I saw from the University of Berkley have known that low normal ferritin is a problem—but our doctors don’t! Unbelievable…it is….
Anyway, if you want me just to look up some wholesale pricing on what it would cost to order your own ferritin and DHEAS just for comparison purposes let me know and I’ll post it for you.
But you shouldn’t even have to get your own labs because if your doctor was informed, she would order them for you and with proper coding/ documentation they would be paid by your insurance….
See, now you got me all riled up:-) Smile…
Glad to know that you’re feeling well otherwise, and it is good to chat with you again.
Re: Thyroid Lab Results Feedback for Fran
Fran, thank you so much for providing such a great overview of your thyroid struggles.Having the total picture makes it much easier to give you some suggestions. Remember, this is a patient/patient support group only and none of this should be construed as being medical advice. Everyone should always consult with their own physician regarding their medical care.
Onto your labs:-) What’s a shame with your situation is that you’ve had all these tests done, and some of them at your expense but have never had the proper ones done that would give you the total picture. The things that have been done have identified a few major issues–but in terms of knowing exactly which way to fix them that’s going to be hard because it is so difficult to find a doctor who knows what they are doing in terms of thyroid testing.
Spedifics:
Your Vitamin D (I’m assuming that they tested the right one for you. The correct test that should have been done is called the Vitamin 25-OH-D Test
With a level of D – 18 (30-100). You are so far below normal that this alone could cause your extreme fatigue. Actually when mine was just slightly below normal it was so bad that my joints felt like I had fibromyalgia. You can also get very bad depression from low Vitamin D like that –that is simply from not having enough D in your system. Not to mention that D that low is terrible for your immune system.
Question: What dosage of the standard process D are you taking, and is it a D3 supplement? Also, is it a tablet, gelcap or liquid?
How long have you been supplementing the D3–I’m assuming because I didn’t see it mentioned anywhere that you have not been re-tested for it? Do you happen to live where you either do not get much sunshine and/or do you happen to have darker skin? Sometimes even people with lighter complexions and who live in Phoenix, AZ are Vitamin D deficient, but I didn’t know that if one’s skin is darker complexioned that it is very difficult to get any Vitamin D from the sun.
Now, I see you had TG (Thyroglobulin Antibody Tested) but you did not have TPO (Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody) tested. You need Both! So you would not need to have the TG retested, but you should get a TPO Antibody test.
Ferritin: Still necessary to test. You can have perfect iron levels and still be low ferritin. If when you donate blood they test your ferritin, please list your numbers along with the ranges. Most people don’t know this, but ferritin level is extremely important when we are on thyroid medication, and even if it is”within range, but lower normal, it can cause havoc with your thyroid supplementation and cause heart palpitations when you try to increase your thyroid medication)
Free T3 and Reverse T3 would be helpful simply to know if you are “pooling” the thyroid medication which would mean it is not getting into your bloodstream.
If you ever get thyroid labs on your own again in terms of follow up testing, once you do the initial thyroid antibodies (THE TPO that you are missing) all you need to check are:
TSH
FREE T3
Free T4 and maybe Reverse T3 , if Reverse T3 has been checked and is not an issue, then for follow up the first (3) are ALL you need. The regular thyroid panel that some labs offer and that doctors sometimes mistakenly order has alot of info that is of no use to you, so you end up going in a circle and at the end of the day, you still don’t know what you need.
I always suggest patients try to get their doctor to order the correct tests first, because if you have insurance, as long as your physician codes it properly thyroid testing should be covered by insurance.
However we are adding a new option because they are so many thyroid patients who are struggling to get the correct thyroid labs where we have a nurse on staff here at the website who can order the labs for anyone who wishes. Paypal is accepted so folks can use a credit card and go through paypal to pay. The prices are basically wholesale prices, so they are extremely affordable, but the only drawback is that they are not covered by insurance. The lab that we use is Labcorp, so patients can go to an online lab finder and put their zip code in and as long as LabCorp has a location in their area, they can go to the lab with a lab slip that we issue and get their labs done. Again, this is just a courtesy that we are going to offer here for anyone who simply cannot get the right labs done through their physician. Results come back to the patient via email and you can print them out and take them to your doctor.
If anyone wants specific pricing on any labwork, just post a comment with the labs you want a price on, and I can update you with a price on the lab testing.
The other things that can be useful to know are your Vitamin B12 level as well as your folic acid. If your physician will order these tests, that’s great. The proper ones for Vitamin B12 are, serum B12, urinary MMA and serum homocysteine. Because B12 is water soluable which means that excess is simply excreted in the urine, and most of us tend to be deficient in it anyway, some will just start supplementing with a sublingual type of B12 and see if they feel better instead of spending the money on testing. (if their doc is not wanting to order it). There is one brand of B12 that seems to work better than others. Let me know if you want the name. For those who are unable to absorb B12 and/or who are very deficient, sometimes shots are the recomended intervention. But sublingual would be the #2 choice..
If I were you I would ask for the NatureThroid prescription, it’s also natural dessicated thyroid hormone so tell your doctor not to have a cow:-) The difference is the filler/s– and yes, fillers can make a big diference in terms of whether you can absorb your thyroid medication.
I would also ask for the other tests that I listed that haven’t been done, and then take it from there. Please post as often as you want and keep us updated with how things are going. The good news is that it looks like there are several things that have not been done which means that there is probably something that can be tweaked or changed to help you feel better!
Hi Bethanie – Thanks so much for your help any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
I got the impression from “Pam” that they have received many, many calls and she insinuated that many more could help – so keep the calls coming!!
Now – where to begin??? In April 2009 I had a (quasi) complete blood work up done. My GP thought it would be wise as I had never had it done and she wanted to check cholesterol levels and hormones, etc… So…! The results show most everything within the reference range for that lab with a couple of exceptions. My TSH was 2.83 (0.35-4.94), my HDL 98 (40-75) slightly high but my other cholesterol numbers were all good [Tri – 92 (0-150), LDL – 60 (40-75),LDL/HDL Ratio – 0.6 (-1.0-4.4) and Chol. Total – 177 (0-200). The only other # that was off was my Vit. D – 18 (30-100). After a rather stressful winter dealing with family medical issues I joined a local gym to work off that “winter weight gain”. Fast forward to August 2009 – until then the weight loss was going swimmingly (not too fast not too slow) then everything stopped. Changed diet plan to shock things and changed work out routine (I go 5 times a week for a one hour work out) hoping it would help. NOTHING! Started feeling exhausted, skin drying out, constipation, sleeplessness, and several more. Doctor said I was FINE.
April 2010 – I had had it. Went and had my blood work done at a private lab – at my expense:
TSH, 3rd Generation 14.73 (no range listed)
T4 Total 8.7 (4.5-12.5)
fT4 Index (T7) 2.5 (1.4-3.8)
T3 uptake 29 (22-35%)
At this point I had no idea what I was looking at but took them to my GP. She said I definitely had hypothyroidism and put me on 75 mcg of Levothyroxin in April (12th). Not much change during the 1st 30 days. Refill didn’t look the same and started to feel “strange”. Changes to 75 mcg of Synthroid in May (25th). Lab work ordered for June.
June 8 TSH only – 0.01 (0.35-4.94)
Dr. wanted to drop meds to 50 mcg. However at this point I was having shortness of breath and heart palpitations. Decided to try 37.5 mcg. Things just were not getting any better, called and left a message on July 1st that I had stopped the Synthroid and needed help. Finally got a call back (4th of July!!!) and they ordered more tests. July 13 test results TSH (only) 4.43.
Before the test results came back I insisted on a natural thyroid medication. I initially asked for Westhroid. The nurse practitioner said she would discuss with my GP. Needless to say she was appalled at my request – “did I know what was in this????” “It is not FDA approved!!!” So I asked – ever eaten a ham sandwich? And is this the same FDA approving drugs that kill people???? Made lots of brownie points. Dr. said she would go with Armour. OK – 30 mg began July 17th. August (23rd) blood work – I called to insist on more than TSH. I requested fT3 fT4 instead:
TSH 7.70 (0.35-4.94)
fT4 0.66 (0.70-1.70)
Medication increased by 15 mg. Tried taking all at once. Heart palpitations – split to 2x a day.
October 23rd blood work – requested full work up – this is what I got!!!
TSH 10.12 (0.35-4.94)
fT4 0.72 (0.70-1.70)
T3 Uptake 33.0% (32.0-48.4)
Thyroglobulin Antibody <20 IU/mL (<40)
T4 total 5.20 (6.09-12.23)
Still trying to get the fT3 tested, may have to get it done on my own. No to the rT3. My iron levels have always been ok – I donate blood on a regular basis and take an iron supplement from Standard Process (also a vitamin D). To the ferritin #’s I don’t think so.
After I received that last lab results I wanted to switch to the Nature-Throid. Have not heard back from the doctor’s office as yet!
Sorry to be so long winded in my response. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
Hi all!
I have to VENT……I haven’t been on here in weeks. I have been super busy. Well I get my labs drawn tomorrow & my Dr. (not really my primary care Dr.) doesn’t want to certain test that I requested. UGH…………..
She says she will do TSH, Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3 & CBC. She refuses to do an iron panel but will if I have anemia. She is still telling me that I don’t need my Vit D checked again because I had it done once already this year & she really doesn’t think the insurance will cover it. I told her how to code it (thanks to someone on this site!) She also refuses to do the DHEAS because she says “it’s difficult to interpret & doesn’t feel comfortable interpreting it.” WOW, I am shocked. I guess it’s time for me to get another Dr. I am not using this Dr. for my diagnosis or treatment ONLY for my labs (due to convenience & insurance) but she doesn’t know that….. I am so mad I could scream. The good thing is I think I am doing pretty good health wise / thyroid wise.
Thanks for listening & I hope you all are doing well.
Thanks,
Karen
Re: Hypothyroidism and Still have Symptoms on Armour
Hello Frances, thank you so much for being here on the thyroid discussion group and for reminding everyone to let Forest know that things are not going well for most of us with the new Armour Reformulation. They’ probably never release this info but wouldn’t it be great to know how many complaint calls they’ve received?
Thanks for posting your labs and I can give you some feedback if that’s helpful. First though, I have some questions for you.
1. Have you had your Free T3 tested? This is even more important than the Free T4, but TSH, FREE T3, and Free T4 should be tested.
2. How about Reverse T3? Have you ever had that tested?
3. And Ferritin? along with Iron Labs?
4. Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested?
From what you have posted there are 2 observations that I can see. You are probably either on way too low of a dose or there is some type of conversion problem going on. Maybe both.
1 grain (60mg) is still a fairly low dose, especially since your TSH levels are still so high. Undertreating and/or undermedicating can be an issue regardless of which type thyroid medication you are on.
But, most people are not having good results with Armour thyroid. I had to switch to NatureThroid and that seems to work fairly well for me. Others report fairly good results with the Canadian Thyroid. It really is so individual that you have to try different things. My first thought is that your dose may need to be adjusted and you may also want to try another natural thyroid medication because so many people are not doing very well on the new Armour.
RE: Armour Thyroid update
Just received a call from Forest. Spoke to Pam in Quality control. As you can guess – she has no control over the formulation. That is decided at a much higher level. But I was pleased they actually called and she will pass on my unhappiness. I am not the first to call and the more calls they get will only strengthen our cause. She passes on all information. If you are not happy about the change take 5 minutes out of your day and make a call.
RE: Still having thyroid symptoms after Armour Change. What Should I do?
Nancy, I’m so sorry you’re still having symptoms. And I know having Crohn’s doesn’t make it easy on top of the hashimotos. I’ll do my best to give you some feedback.
First of all, do you have copies of your labs? If so, please list your TSH, FREE T3, Free T4, and Reverse T3 if you have them. Also, have you had your iron level and your ferritin tested? How about B12?
Glad you’ve joined us here on the thyroid discussion group. Generally when someone is feeling that poorly for so long there is something that can be helped.
Good Afternoon-
I too have hypothyroidism. Can’t seem to shake the half dozen symptoms (dry itchy skin, cold [96.1] tired, weak muscles, sleeplessness, etc……….)
Test results from August, 2010 taking 30 mg of Armour:
fT4 .66 (0.7.-1.70)
TSH 7.70 (0.35-4.94)
October 2010 taking 45 mg (for 6 weeks) of Armour:
fT4 .72 (0.70-1.70)
TSH 10.12 (0.35-4.94)
Armour has been increased to 60 mg. I am taking sublingually, dosage divided every 12 hours. Have had headaches for the last few days. This morning I am experiencing major dizziness.
I picked up the phone and called Forest Labs to file a complaint about the reformulation! Spoke with a woman in the “Medical Info. Dept”. She took all my information and then transfered me to a nurse who took all my history info. She sugessted that if I knew of anyone else who was not happy with the changes to have them call!!!
CALL FOREST LABORATORIES AND FILE A COMPLAINT! MYBE WE CAN GET THEM TO CHANGE BACK!!! 866-927-3260
If we flood them with calls maybe we can all get back to having “normal” days again.
I have hashimoto and crohns disease. I use to take Armour, however, since 2005, it is not working at all for me. I tried Naturethroid and not much help. I tried ERFA and it helped somewhat, but still not much help. I’m on compound, but I still would like the Old Armour back.
Is there a chance these natural meds will change back to the potency they once were?
I have so much inflammation and it is difficult for me to go about my normal day. I’m am not the same person as when I was on Old Armour.
What should I do?
Re: NatureThroid and Crushing
Hello Sandra, I think there was another lady who answered you, but she posted in the wrong place. Anyway, I didn’t want you to miss it, so here’s her response
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-conditions/nature-throid-and-westhroid-natural-thyroid
Scroll all the way down to the comments and you’ll see her suggestions.
Do you think that may be something you could try?
OMG…….there is no way I can take the med sublingually. The first day I did it, I didn’t taste it because I had a cold, second day had a faint taste, today…….YUCK! I used the honey too, plus it all turns to paste in my mouth. What if I still crushed them and drank them with water? Kinda like doing a BC or Goody’s. Thanks for the tip, but this girl didn’t like! I am sure it helps, but I cannot get past the disgusting taste.
Thanks Carin AGAIN! I heard back from my doctor after I sent him a letter of all my concerns and additional tests I would like to have done! He sent me a new Rx with all the tests and he was all right with me crushing my pills up and taking it under my tongue. He did decrease it by 1/2 grain, but I may just do the 1 grain because it seems like after you crush them, there is a lot of residue left in the crusher. I go back for blood test in 8 weeks….heres hoping for the best!
One thing I had about the crushing, it seemed like my mouth starting salivating forcing me to swallow before some of it was dissolved completely. Hopefully, that isn’t a problem.
Going to make chicken soup….gotta a cold now! Have a good weekend too!
RE: Lab Tests and Ranges – for Sandra
Hi Sandra, Thanks for posting your Lab Ranges…that helps so much!
TSH=13.81 (0.40-4.50 mIU/L) – You already know this is way too high
T4, FREE=0.5 (0.8-1.8 NG/DL) – Too Low – Ideally should be at least midrange
T3, FREE=2.3 (2.3-4.2 PG/ML). Too Low, you want this towards the upper level of the Range
I would be very interested in hearing if crushing your medication and adding either the sugar or the honey to it helps you start to feel better. You may still need to increase your meds, but crushing will probably give you the better absorption that I talked about earlier.
In terms of how long it takes to absorb the thyroid meds if you crush them, generally about 5-7 minutes for me. Sometimes I’ll get up just a bit earlier, and then get my thyroid meds, crush them, put them in my mouth and then go back to bed for just a little bit until they’re absorbed. Some will simply get up and take them first thing and let them dissolve as they are doing their morning routines. The other great thing about sublingual is that you don’t have to worry so much about food affecting the absorption. Since it’s not having to be processed by your stomach, you have less of a chance of something else interfering.
Oh, and I have one more tip for you. Since the T3 in your natural thyroid medication (or any thyroid medication) is actually short lasting, (generally about 5 hours) sometimes thyroid patients will take a dose in the morning, and then if they are increasing, instead of taking the whole dose in the am., will take let’s say the other .5 or 1 grain or whatever dose they’re adding, about 5 hours from the first dose. This can give you a little more “oomph” in the afternoon so you don’t feel like you need a nap in the afternoon.
Finally, on your question about antibodies. I will give you more info if your antibodies come back positive, and it looks like there’s another person right now who has that same issue, so I’ll answer their thread so you can see what adjustments you can make if you do find you have positive antibodies.
Please do stay in touch and let us know how you fare with your doctor and getting those additional tests done. And–of course, if you try the sublingual way of taking your thyroid meds, see if that helps you to start feeling better in the meantime while you are waiting for more labs to be done.
Enjoy your weekend!
RE: Hashimotos Help
Hi, I’ve had my thyroid antibodies tested and they came back both positive. And I have the same question as Sandra. What am I to do now that I know I have the Thyroid Antibodies? Is there a different thyroid medicine that I need to take? Is there anything that can bring the antibodies down?
Carin,
WOW….Here are the levels with ranges: TSH=13.81 (0.40-4.50 mIU/L), T4, FREE=0.5 (0.8-1.8 NG/DL), and T3, FREE=2.3 (2.3-4.2 PG/ML). I faxed my doctor a letter this morning with all my concerns and the different tests that have never been done on me thus far. I’ll keep you posted. He’ll probably want me to come BACK IN to talk to him—so I can pay another $25/copay! LOL
If the antibody test comes back different, what does that mean? Different course of medication?
Also, how long does it take for the crushed tablets to dissolve?
Thanks again for all your help. Nice to have support….alot of people think we are crazy—it’s just your thyroid!
RE: NatureThroid and Elevated TSH
Sandra, I forgot to say you can use a spoon to crush your tablets if you don’t have a pill crusher yet. And if you don’t have honey, try just putting a bit of sugar with your crushed tablets and that will help them dissolve.
Note: this is as long as someone isn’t diabetic:-)
RE: Elevated TSH with NatureThroid
Hi Sandra,
Thanks for answering those questions. First, keep in mind none of this is to be construed as medical advice, these are just my personal thoughts/suggestions and this is a patient/patient thyroid support group.
Ok, onto my feedback for you.
1. Did you take your lab test while fasting? Yes
Great, good job. You should be fasting for 10-12 hours, no food and just water during the fasting period before labs
2. Did you take your thyroid medication the morning of your (lab draw? No, after I had it drawn at 8:40 AM
Also, good job, you did the right thing there
.
3. How are you taking the NatureThroid? Are you swallowing the tablets or taking them sublingually? Swallowing
Ok, this can make a HUGE difference. There is cellulose in the NatureThroid and this cellulose makes it hard for some of us to actually absorb the hormone in the medication properly. There is however, a way around this. Most of us do just fine taking NatureThroid IF we crush the tablets — I use a round pill crusher (blue) from Walgreens that is cylindrical in shape that does a great job of making the tablets into a dust form. I then take it sublingually letting it dissolve either under my tongue or at the very side pocket of my mouth. Put a drop or two of honey on top of the powder in your mouth. The extra sugar will also help it dissolve. Don’t eat or drink anything until it dissolves. That possibly could solve your problem if you are not absorbing the medication because of the cellulose. The crushing breaks up the cellulose so your body can get to the medication.
4. What were your Free T3 and Free T4 Values along with labs? T3=2.3 and T4=.5
Were these FREE T3 and FREE T4 Levels? What were your lab’s ranges?
For example (This is made up) Free T3 1.4 (Range .7-2.5) Please post the actual results along with the ranges. If you ONLY had your T3 and T4 levels done, and NOT your FREE T3 and FREE T4 levels done let me know. They are 2 different Tests.
5. Have you ever been tested for thyroid antibodies? Both Thyroglobulin and Thyroid Peroxidase? No
Ok, with levels like yours that fluctuate, you most definitely should get BOTH antibody tests done.
They are: TPO (Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody)and
TG (Thyroglobulin Antibody) you need both tested and should specifically write these down and ask your doctor to order them for you. Don’t just ask for antibody testing because most ot the time they don’t know to test for both, and you need both tested
If you have either of the thyroid antibodies your lab tests will be all over the place, from one day to the next, but you need to know this and in order to know this, you need to have your antibodies tested.
6. Have you ever had Reverse T3 Tested? No
Also, another important value to test, especially in someone with labs like yours. Ask also for a REVERSE T3 Test to be done with your next lab draw. You need to have FREE T3 and Reverse T3 done at the same time. You can’t just get one and not the other in order to get the appropriate info.
7. What is your ferritin level along with ranges? If you’ve never had it tested, just let me know that. No
Also, critically important to have ferritin tested along with a serum iron So you would ask for a full iron panel which would include
Serum Iron, TIBC, UIBC + Ferritin
If your ferritin levels are too low, it makes it very difficult for you to properly use and be able to increase your thyroid meds without getting symptoms.
8. Which lab did you use and is this the same lab that you’ve used before? Quest and I use them all the time; however, the draw before this was done at the doctor’s office and they use the hospital’s lab.
Ok, sometimes there is a lab error. This happened to me before, so I just always ask.
9. How do you feel? Do you have any new symptoms that weren’t there before? If you didn’t know your TSH was so high are you feeling really badly? If so, what are your worst symptoms? I didn’t feel too bad; however, I have noticed more hair coming out and a few extra pounds. I just assumed it was from the junk I was eating. Calf pain (which was used as a question), but I did get a ultrasound and it was negative for a blood clot, finger first joint pain.
With calf pain, take a look at your potassium levels, as well as calcium. Sometimes it can help to have bananas for potassium on a regular basis if your potassium is low/normal or if you are getting cramps at all. And adding in some magnesium glycinate (is the best and most easily absorbed) can also be useful if your doctor ok’s you to have a magnesium supplement.
I was absolutely mortified when I got those results yesterday. I thought I was on the road to recovery. My TSH was 19 when I was first diagnosed hypo about 5 years ago, so to get this 13.87 was a huge blow to me. I don’t think I have ever gone higher than 4.50 after starting medication. THANKS for your help……BTW, how do you know so much about the thyroid?
I’m sure you were shocked. Those are pretty high numbers. It would be helpful if I know if you actually had FREE T3 and FREE T4 tested or just regular T3 and T4.
Possibly by starting to crush your thyroid meds and adding in some honey you may start to see a big difference. I would be careful about raising too quickly. You may want to check with your doctor and see if they are ok with you raising by 1/2 of a grain and trying the crushing and adding honey (although most of them dont’ even know that this helps…because they are not thyroid patients,) but that way you could try a small increase, make sure you’re doing ok and then raise to the full grain after you know that you are tolerating the additional 1/2 grain ok. Also, the ferritin is really, really important to test so get that tested on your next lab draw, along with the full iron panel and definitely the thyroid antibodies.
It sounds a bit complex, but it really isn’t if you have the right mix of tests. Both low thyroid levels as well as low ferritin can cause hair loss.
If your doctor is open to it, it would be good for you also to know your
Vitamin B12 levels which are tested using the following tests:
Vitamin B12 Serum
Urinary MMA
and Serum Homocysteine
+ It’s good to add in a Folic Acid Test
This is the only way to test B12 fully, but most docs will cut corners and just test the serum B12. Which is better than nothing but doesn’t give the full picture. So do what you can and see if you can get the Full B12 panel I listed along with Folic Acid.
And you’re very welcome. I’ve had some great mentors here through the other moderators teaching me what I needed to know. Plus when you deal with your own thyroid issues and are told that your labs are “fine” but you feel miserable you learn pretty quickly to read and be your own advocate because I was so tired of feeling sick and tired all the time:-) Good news is that things can and do get better. You just need to know what’s causing this….. Hope this helps. Keep me posted on your progress!
Carin, here it goes.
1. Did you take your lab test while fasting? Yes
2. Did you take your thyroid medication the morning of your lab draw? No, after I had it drawn at 8:40 AM.
3. How are you taking the NatureThroid? Are you swallowing the tablets or taking them sublingually? Swallowing
4. What were your Free T3 and Free T4 Values along with labs? T3=2.3 and T4=.5
5. Have you ever been tested for thyroid antibodies? Both Thyroglobulin and Thyroid Peroxidase? No
6. Have you ever had Reverse T3 Tested? No
7. What is your ferritin level along with ranges? If you’ve never had it tested, just let me know that. No
8. Which lab did you use and is this the same lab that you’ve used before? Quest and I use them all the time; however, the draw before this was done at the doctor’s office and they use the hospital’s lab.
9. How do you feel? Do you have any new symptoms that weren’t there before? If you didn’t know your TSH was so high are you feeling really badly? If so, what are your worst symptoms? I didn’t feel too bad; however, I have noticed more hair coming out and a few extra pounds. I just assumed it was from the junk I was eating. Calf pain (which was used as a question), but I did get a ultrasound and it was negative for a blood clot, finger first joint pain.
I was absolutely mortified when I got those results yesterday. I thought I was on the road to recovery. My TSH was 19 when I was first diagnosed hypo about 5 years ago, so to get this 13.87 was a huge blow to me. I don’t think I have ever gone higher than 4.50 after starting medication. THANKS for your help……BTW, how do you know so much about the thyroid?
Danielle,
I’m glad that what I posted helped and sorry it’s taken me a while to reply. The people are RLC are great. Did you ever find a pharmacy that was able to get Nature-Throid for you?
It really isn’t hard to get, but it’s not popular, and pharmacists don’t seem to know they can get it. I’m really lucky to have a good pharmacist who has (mostly) an excellent staff working for him. One of the other pharmacists there is a grouchy, grouchy man who doesn’t want to help anyone with anything, but even just one pharmacist who is willing to listen and go out of the way to help can make a huge difference.
I feel normal for the first time in years and have since about three months of the Nature-Throid. I now wear the same pants size I did in high school, I can focus on my work, and my energy level is fine. It’s made such a difference.
Good luck to you!
Karen (the other one)
I had a good experience with Naturethroid compared to Armour. Couldn’t use the new Armour, my TSH went sky high on that. I think it is necessary though to crush the Naturethroid tablets, and I’m adding just a bit of sugar because I don’t have honey in the house. My energy is much, much better, my mood is better, and I am out enjoying walking again. Before I was so tired I had no energy to even leave the couch.
Re: How to Handle it when your Doctor only want’s to prescribe Armour
Hi Robin, I would tell your doctor that there are many other thyroid patients who are not having a good experience with the New Amour. And to ask him if he would prescribe another brand name of natural thyroid medication called NatureThroid. It is basically the same type of natural dessicated thyroid med, except that the NatureThroid has different fillers in it, which obviously can make a huge difference. If he still balks at your request, given that you are specifically asking him to give you a medicine that will probably be a better choice for you, you may have to consider finding another doctor.
Re: NatureThroid for one month:TSH Increased
Hi Sandra, What a nightmare for you. Ok, I have some questions and a few ideas:
1. Did you take your lab test while fasting?
2. Did you take your thyroid medication the morning of your lab draw?
3. How are you taking the NatureThroid? Are you swallowing the tablets or taking them sublingually?
4. What were your Free T3 and Free T4 Values along with labs?
5. Have you ever been tested for thyroid antibodies? Both Thyroglobulin and Thyroid Peroxidase?
6. Have you ever had Reverse T3 Tested?
7. What is your ferritin level along with ranges? If you’ve never had it tested, just let me know that.
8. Which lab did you use and is this the same lab that you’ve used before?
9. How do you feel? Do you have any new symptoms that weren’t there before? If you didn’t know your TSH was so high are you feeling really badly? If so, what are your worst symptoms?
Once I hear back from you on the answers to these questions I can give you some things to discuss with your doctor. There’s got to be a reason this is happening and some of the questions I asked should help you be able to pinpoint why.
COMPLETELY FRUSTRATED
Ok, I got my blood results after being on Nature-Throid for a month…disturbed. I was taking Armour 120mg for awhile….then my doc up’ed it to 150mg because my TSH was 3.81. After three weeks of that increase, I got chest pains, anxiety, etc. so he decreased it back to 120mg. Came onto this website to see that many were having problems with the reformulation. Asked him to switch me to NatureThroid which he did. The conversion from Armour to NT was 120mg to 130mg. Took NT 130mg (2 grains) for a month. Got my test results yesterday to find out that my TSH was a whopping 13.87. WHAT? So now he wants me to take 195 mg (3 grains) starting tomorrow. I am very worried this is a huge increase. I have been extra cautious about taking my calcium and multi-vitamins too. Take the MV at lunch time and calcium about 1 hour before bedtime. Thoughts anybody? I am hating this gland right about now!~
Re: Question on Armour Thyroid
My sister’s daughter told me to find this site and I am blown away by all the great info about the thyroid here. Thank you! I have a question about what to do when your doctor is still prescribing Armour Thyroid–even though I feel very tired, actually exhausted again. I think I should probably change to try some other thyroid medication but my doctor seems convinced that Armour is still the way to go. Could someone please help me with ideas on how to handle this?
Re: Still Having Hypo Symptoms with Armour
Hi Mary, It’s beyond frustrating to think of all the havoc Forest has caused with the reformulation. I wouldn’t be counting on them to change anything –they were less than forthright about the change in the first place, so that leaves all of us thyroid patients needing to come up with options if Armour doesn’t work for us.
Here’s some ideas/suggestions.
1. Clarke’s Pharmacy in Arizona always has had NatureThroid in stock. It works much better than the new Armour, in my opinion, and we’ve had lots of members here report success with it.
Even if you can’t get it paid through your insurance I wonder if you could just pay out of pocket and have it mailed to you. It’s not very expensive. Here’s the info on it. If you need help finding out if they will mail it overseas and don’t want to make a long distance call, just let me know here, and I’ll call for you and will post a follow up message letting you know what they said.
1. You Can Mail Order the Nature-Throid From Clark’s Pharmacy in Carefree Arizona – You do need to fax them your prescription
Phone: (480) 488-2007.
Fax: (480) 575-0541
As of the date of this article 1/26/2010 I was told that they had the 65 mg otherwise known as the 1 grain supply of the Nature-Throid Tablets in stock and they will process your order and mail it to you. Here are the prices I was quoted as of 1/26/2010 and then rechecked in August 2010
100 tablets of the 65 mg (1 grain) Nature-Throid : $26.50
500 tablets of the 65 mg (1 grain) Nature-Throid: $132.50
Shipping is a flat rate of $7.00 per shipment ( in the US)
Clarke’s Pharmacy
36889 North Tom Darlington Drive
Carefree, AZ 85377
(480) 488-2007
2. Maybe your mail order pharmacy could get NatureThroid from Clarke’s and still dispense it to you overseas?
3. Here is the website for the Canadian Natural Thyroid called Erfa.
Erfa Thyroid
Perhaps your mail order pharmacy could get it from them, or you could see about purchasing yourself and having it shipped, but it is more expensive than the NatureThroid. Some people think that the Canadian thyroid is just like the old Armour. It tastes the same, but I think the NatureThroid works just fine for me and it is less expensive..
4. In the interim, some people find that Armour works better if you crush it and take it sublinugually with a drop or so of honey. I do the very same thing with the NatureThroid. It just seems to get absorbed better if I take it sublingually.
Hope that helps, and if you need someone to make some calls for you to find out more info please just let me know.
Keep in touch and let us know what you decide and how you’re doing. Thanks to you and your husband for your sacrifice and service!
Hi again,
I called Forest today to report the resurgence in my symptoms and even though the man was polite I got the distinct feeling that he didn’t take my complaint seriously. How disappointing.
I would like more information on other natural thyroid medications, but I don’t know if I will be able to get any of them. My husband is in the Army and we are stationed overseas. Our pharmacy doesn’t carry any natural thyroid preparations except for Armour. I need to find out if the mail order pharmacy carries any of the other options.
I will also make an appointment to go and get my blood drawn again and see where my levels are now that I’m up to 240 mg a day. Still feeling sluggish and cranky though, and my weight hasn’t budged.
Carin,
Well Thank You! Susan posted today that she was feeling better. She did mention that thyroid cancer wasn’t related to her breast cancer which I was concerned because I thought she told me she the thyroid came back negative. I have responded to that & will hopefully hear something. Thanks again for asking. I told her that you asked about her on here!! Very thoughtful of you.
How funny, your husband sounds like my boyfriend, lots of muscle…. Which I love on a man & some women don’t.
You take care also.
K
Re: Baby Shampoo and Hair Loss
Hi Karen, thanks for the response back and I know what you mean about guys and hair tips. Ha, Ha– you would be amazed if you saw him. He’s quite the athlete, lots of muscle etc, and I almost died laughing when he was telling me about the Baby Shampoo.
I’m also very glad that your friend is ok. I think that surgery can be harder on us than we think. And it can take several weeks to get all of the anesthesia out of one’s system. We’re here if she needs us and thanks again for mentioning the site. I enjoy having the conversations with everyone so much:-)
Take care of yourself too!
Carin
Question about Splitting the NatureThroid or Erfa
I’ve read somewhere that you have to be very careful when splitting certain medication to make sure that the type of medicine can be split. Does anyone know if it’s ok to split both the Naturethroid or the Erfa Thyroid medicine?
Hey Carin,
Shampoo
Sorry for the late response but I haven’t been on here in days. Thanks for the tip on the baby shampoo. I will tell my boyfriend & his mom. That’s interesting. Really, we don’t usually get tips about hair from our men… LOL
My friend is doing good I think, she did respond & I did give her more information to think about & reminded her that this site is awesome! Hopefully she will join.
Take care,
Karen
Re:Naturethroid vs Erfa
It’s such an individual thing I think which thyroid medication works for someone. I’ve tried them all. I’m an “old timer” in terms of needing thyroid medication. Been taking it for some 18 years or so. Initially was on Armour Thyroid which was so perfect for me, and then noticed that I felt so bad again. Headaches, fatigue, hair loss, you name it–I had it. Didn’t find out that the company changed the formula until I happened to research it online. I then switched to compounded–didn’t work for me. Tried Erfa–it was ok, but not great. And now I’m on Naturethroid. It’s not bad at all, in fact I don’t have any complaints about it except that it does taste awful when you take it sublingually. But I have to do that in order to get it to work well in my system. So, it just maybe that you have to try different thryoid medicines to see which one will do the best for you. Good luck everybody!
Re: nature thyroid vs Erfa
I tried the Erfa and prefer nature thyroid. With the Erfa I got hypo symptoms again
Re: how Erfa compares to Naturethroid
I love how Erfa works. I took Armour thyroid for almost 10 years and was having a hard time getting another thyroid med to work after Armour changed. For me the Erfa works as well as the Armour used to.
RE: Erfa vs NatureThroid
Amy, I’m taking Erfa right now and just love it. To me it tastes exactly like the old Armour did. Maybe subconsciously that’s why I like it so much:-) Anyway, it’s sweet and doesn’t have any cellulose in it. I haven’t tried the new NatureThroid yet, but may do that just to see if I can tell a difference because my daughter is on thyroid medication and she uses NatureThroid. I do know however that alot of the people that I hear about are doing just fine with NatureThroid, including my daughter. I think for me it’s more of a taste thing.
Re: Erfa vs NatureThroid
Amy, I’ve taken both Erfra and NatureThroid. Some may tell you differently, but I think personally that the Erfa is a tad less strong than the NatureThroid so I have to take a little more of it. But, I also like the taste and consistency of the Erfa better than the NatureThroid. I can easily take it sublingually without using too much honey to cover up the taste and it just seems to absorb faster in my mouth. But if I crush the NatureThroid and add honey, it seems to work about the same like Erfa except that for me I take about 1/2 grain less.
Question about Erfa vs Naturethroid if someone could please give me their opinion. I’ve had a difficult time being on the Armour Thyroid and was going to see about changing to something else. I’ve read that many of you use the Naturethroid, but could anyone give me their thoughts about the Erfa? Does it work the same like Naturethroid or is one better than the other? Thanks
Re: Question about What Time to Take NatureThroid
Hi Belinda, If you’re splitting your thyroid medications into two separate doses than definitely stick with the first one in the morning and take your 2nd dose about 5 hours later. It really is not recommended to take your thyroid medication at night unless you work nights and your am. is in the pm.
The reason for this is that when you take your thyroid medication it gives you energy, and so you don’t want this energy wasted and/or don’t want it to cause you sleeplessness.
What Time Should I take My Naturethroid? Hi everbody, I was diagnosed about 6 weeks ago with Hashimotos and hypothyroidism. My doctor put me on the Naturethroid medicine and I’m doing ok, however, I’m having trouble fitting in all the supplements that I take around my thyroid medicine. Like not taking the calcium with the thyroid medicine etc. Is it ok to take my 2nd dose of Naturethroid at night before bed? I take the first one early in the am., but can I take my 2nd one at night?
Re: Exhaustion Question: Is it normal to feel ok one day and simply exhausted the next?
Janelle,
If everything’s in balance I would say that this is not normal. Do you know what your latest lab values were? Have you had iron along with ferritin tested? How about your adrenals? Sometimes with unaddressed adrenal issues as well as low ferritin then you can seem to take one step forward two steps back. Also, if you’re not on enough thyroid medication then this can cause issues. And even sometimes people will feel exhausted if they have too much thyroid medicine. If you can give us a bit more info about what type of thyroid medication you’re on as well as what your labs are, we can give you some feedback about some things to discuss with your physician.
Re: Question about Why TSH Should Be Supressed on Armour
Carolyn, It’s not that the TSH should be supressed on Armour but that if you take natural dessicated thyroid hormone replacement meaning Armour Thyroid, NatureThroid, Westhroid or even compounded, your TSH most generally is supressed when you take enough thyroid medication to bring your Free T3 and Free T4 into an optimal range.
Re:Erfa Thyroid Question
Hi Vickie, Your T4 is too low but you’re correct, the T3 is just a tad too high. Did you happen to take your thyroid medication the morning when you had your blood draw? Do you have any feelings of being hyper?
Have you taken your afternoon temp? How is your ferritin and iron panel?
Latest Thyroid Labs
Forgot to put my lab info in the note for you all:
TSH .008 L (.450 – 4.50)
Free T4 0.84 (.082 – 1.77)
Free T3 4.6 (2.0-4.4)
Is this T3 ok where it is or should I ask about reducing my thyroid dose?
Erfa Help Needed
I’ve been taking the Canadian Thyroid, the Erfa for about 8 months. Before that I had been on Levothyroxine for a few years and also had tried Synthroid. Neither the Synthroid or Levothyroxine seemed to work for me, I always felt very poorly.
I’ve had issues with my Free T3 being on the high end, and my free T4 being on the low end. Is this something I need to be concerned about?
Question about Why the TSH should be Suppressed on Armour?
Could anybody help me understand why if we are taking Armour Thyroid that the TSH should be Suppressed?
New to your Group and Have Low TSH Question
My name is Anne and I’m 42 years old. I’m beginning to learn about thyroid problems because for the first time ever, my new doctor tells me I have low thyroid and started me on thyroid medication. But, my last visit my other doctor, told me my TSH is too low and I’m taking too much thyroid medicine because of the TSH value. I don’t feel hyper or like I’m getting too much. My blood pressure and pulse were just checked and were very good. Has anyone else gone through this with more than one doctor managing your case and if so how did you handle it?
Exhaustion and Tired all the time
I was hoping someone could help me here. Do you think it’s normal to feel perfectly fine one day and then totally and completely exhausted the next? My pattern is to do alright for a few days and then barely be able to move another. There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to this and was wondering if this type of thing happened to anyone else.
Re: NatureThroid or Armour Thryoid
Hi Sonja, Most thyroid patients that I hear from are reporting quite a few side effects from the new Armour (once it has been reforumated). It’s hard to tell exactly which thyroid medication will work for one person, however, most of the time I am hearing that people are feeling better on the NatureThroid since Armour reformulated.
And most patients will crush their tablets and add one drop of honey to them with either the Armour or the NatureThroid and the thyroid meds sublingually because it can help with aborption. Hope that gives you some help. Also, glad to have you join the thyroid discussion group here.
Re: When to Take Thyroid Med when Getting Labs Drawn
Diane, Your question about when to take your thyroid medication when you’re going to have your thyroid labs drawn is a really good one.
The “rule of thumb” I’ve been told is to wait 24 , hours between the time you last take your thyroid medication and when you have your labs drawn.
So if you normally take your thyroid med at 6:00 a.m., then you could have labs drawn anytime after 6:00 the next day.
Ideally you should have your labs done in the morning (after having been fasting for 10-12 hours) The instructions I have say: water only, no coffee tea, juice while fasting. And, as always check with your doctor if you have any medical condition that may make fasting for the 10-12 hours an issue.
so to recap:
1. Don’t take your thyroid medication on the morning of your thyroid blood draw
2. Make sure at least 24 hours have passed between your last dose and when you are getting your labwork
3. Have bloodwork done after fasting for 10-12 hours. Water only during fasting period unless you have a medical condition or other concern about fasting in which case definitely speak to your doctor about your individual needs. It’s always a good idea to check with your doctor to make sure you can safely fast for 10-12 hours which most of us do anyway overnight while we sleep.
4. Schedule your thyroid lab draw in the early am hours. 7-9a:m. is best.
5. Bring your thyroid medication with you and take after you’ve had your thyroid lab draw.
Hashimotos and Lymph Nodes Question for everyone. I ran across this site and since I have Hashimotos, thought I’d ask you a question about that. Is it normal to have lymph nodes that are enlarged if you have Hashimotos? Any advice for me? Thanks for your help.
Mary, I’m in the same situation as you are. Been using Armour Thyroid since 2006. It was my lifeline back to a regular life. Now, I’m back to having the same symptoms I was experiencing before I started thyroid medication. Next week I have an appointment at the lab and will get my blood drawn. I didn’t know that I should be fasting and that I should have the blood draw for thyroid done early am. I usually get it after work, so maybe this time I’ll get some good answers why I feel so miserable……
Re: Armour Thyroid Change Wish They Would Make It the old Way
Hi Mary, I know. It’s been really a trying experience I think for everyone who used to do so well on the old Armour Thyroid. I can’t for the life of me imagine why the company would have changed it. It worked so great and had been a proven product for years!
Many of us have had to switch to another brand of Natural Thyroid. Some here use NatureThroid, others get a compounded version, but that is expensive, while still others order the thyroid medication from Canada.
If you need any other info on these options for natural thyroid or if we can help in any way, please just ask. Glad you joined our discussion about thyroid issues and hope you come back often.
Re: Hashimotos Question and Armour Thyroid
Hi Tanya, Glad that you’ve joined the discussion we’re having about Thyroid Issues. We are a patient-to-patient information and support group here, and although thyroid issues can sure be difficult to deal with, they’re easier if you don’t have to go through them alone.
In an ideal world, we would take our thyroid medication one hour before eating and/or drinking but since you’re planning on taking it sublingually, if your schedule is that you’re having coffee 30 minutes after, that’s ok. The cream isn’t something that’s great to have if you were swallowing your medication, but since it’s probably a very small amount, I personally wouldn’t stress out over it. But do make sure that your medication is all dissolved before having your coffee. Dairy products will be fine (ideally one hour after your thyroid medication has been taken sublingually).
Hashimotos Help Needed
Hello, I have Hashimotos and my doctor has had me on Synthroid for the past 4 years. I’ve switched to a functional medicine specialist and she wrote me a prescription for Armour Thyroid. She says I should try a gluten free diet, and is going to test my adrenals. I’m on 1 grain of Armour starting out.
I am taking the Armour sublingually and need to know if I can have cream in my coffee about 30 minutes after my Armour dissolves. I eat about 1 hour after taking the Armour. Do I also need to avoid any dairy products for breakfast?
Hi. I have been on Armour thyroid since late 2007 after spending nearly 3 years on synthroid with no benefit. Armour changed my life for the better, and I swore that if my house was on fire, I would grab my kids and my Armour thyroid.
Like you, I noticed a resurgence in my symptoms and got online to see if perhaps I was eating too much soy. I was shocked to find so many people having problems with the newly reformulated Armour thyroid. I wish that they would listen and just start making it the old way…..
Re: Hair Loss from Chemo Treatments for Karen
Hi Karen, just wanted to say that I hope now that it’s been a few days that your friend is recovering well from her thyroid surgery.
Also, got a hair tip from my hubby yesterday and immediately thought of you! I know…when do we ladies ever get good hair tips from husbands–LOL.
But mine, actually had a good suggestion. His favorite shampoo is Baby Shampoo and when he ran out yesterday, he borrowed my shampoo which was not baby shampoo. I don’t even remember which bottle of mine that he grabbed, I have a few kinds that I use, but his comment was that it was way too strong! So last night we’re at the store getting a new supply of Baby Shampoo and I tried his Baby Shampoo this morning.
I could tell a big difference. It was very gentle to the hair and my hair didn’t looked more shiny/healthy after using it only one time. I’m not sure if it has the SLS stuff that was mentioned by the other commenter, but I thought I’d pass this onto you in the event that it could help your boyfriend’s mom.
I read that you’re not supposed to take your thyroid medication before you go to the lab to get your blood drawn. Can I take my thyroid 12 hours before? Or does anyone know the cutoff time?
Re: Question on Where to Get NatureThroid
Autumn, I haven’t been using the Naturethroid for that long but I was able to order mine from Clarke’s Pharmacy in AZ 480-488-2007 Phone, 480-575-0541 FAX. They’ll ship it out to you — I think my shipping cost 7.00 and it only took a few days to arrive.
Hi you all, I normally can get my NatureThroid refilled at my local pharmacy, but they said they can’t get it anymore. Do you all have any suggestions as to where the best place to get it is?
Regarding My Armour Thyroid Questions:
Thank you Carin and Ellen, I appreciate your taking the time to write back to me, and I think I will just ask my doctor to switch medicines. I’ll let you all know how I do!
Re: Switching to Another Thyroid Medication
Bonnie, I would agree with Carin. I’ve only been taking thyroid medication since June of this year. Originally I was also put on Armour but my heart seemed to “flutter” all the time in my chest. It was uncomfortable and frightening at times. I never knew if I should just “ignore it” or if I should go to the Emergency Room. I told my doctor I couldnt’ take it anymore and asked for NatureThroid.
I’m good now, no more palpitations and I’m finally getting my old pep back.
Re: Heart Palpitations with Armour Thyroid
Hello Bonnie, Glad you’ve joined our thyroid group.
Regarding your question about the heart palpitations. Their has been quite a large number of comments that I’ve personally read about wierd side effects from Armour Thyroid since it was reformulated. I would first check with your doctor to make sure that she/he doesn’t think you should be seen, and then I think I would ask for a prescription for either NatureThroid, or the compounded thyroid. There’s also a thyroid medication (natural thyroid) that you can get from Canada but I think if I were in your shoes I would see if you could switch soon and it takes some time to get the medication from Canada.
I think Annie and some of the other ladies here may have some feedback for you if they happen to see this message. Let us know if you have more questions.
Hi I have a question for your group about heart palpitations with thyroid medication.
My doctor prescribed Armour thyroid — I didn’t know any better so I started taking it and I am having heart palpitations all the time. I’ve only been on it for about 5 days, so I was wondering is this something that is common at the beginning when you first start taking thyroid medicine or should I ask right now to change thyroid medications?
Carin,
Re: Friend/Surgery
Thank you so much that is very sweet of you Carin! I sent her a message yesterday but she has not responded. I am hoping she is resting as she just got out of the hospital yesterday.
Question about Levothyroxine
Hi all,
You have some terrific thyroid information here–really great stuff. I was hoping that someone could guide me with what to do.
I’ve been on Levothyroxine for 9 months and feel awful on it. I’m going to the doctor on Friday and want to know what I should ask for:
Do you think I should ask for Armour or NatureThroid?
Thank you for the assistance.
RE: Friend Having Thyroid Surgery
Hi Karen, Please give my best to your friend for a fast recovery from her thyroid surgery. I hope she is doing well and if there is anything she needs help with, that she will join our discussion.
Thank you very much for telling her about us, and I hope we’ll see her here soon!
I just learned via facebook that an elementary school friend of mine had thyroid surgery. I don’t know any of the details but I told her about this website so hopefully she will check it out & learn a lot just like I have. Susan I wish you a speedy recovery & don’t wait as long as I did to research your health. There are so many great people on this site that are very knowledgeable & very helpful.
Re: Question – Can Low Thyroid Cause Muscle Pains?
Hi Sandra,
Thanks so much for your question. One of our editors liked your question so much they even covered it in today’s online article update on the website.
You’ll want to read the entire article for the details, but you were actually right. Yes, having a thyroid problem can predispose us to having leg pain. I bet you had a little voice in your subconscious mind that was saying, “Could this be my thyroid too?”
Doesn’t mean for sure that it is thyroid related, but without a doubt, it could be exacerbated by thyroid problems.
Here’s a link to the article:
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-conditions/can-hypothyroidism-cause-muscle-pains
Let me know if this helps!
Thanks Sandra:-)
Calf-pain
Question for anybody out there! This may or may not be related to thyroid (probably not); however, I get this SHARP, STABBING, ELECTRIC pain in my right calf. No warning of when it will happen, just sharp pain. Feels like someone is appling a live electric wire on my calf for a few seconds. Then is disappears. I had varicose vein treatment on that leg, but when I asked them at a follow-up, the doctor couldn’t explain what it was that I was feeling and didn’t feel like it was related to treatment. I have read about B12 deficency and that this could be a symptom? Since people on this board seem to be very knowledge about other issues, I figured I would give it a stab….no pun intended! LOL
Karen,
I found my doctor when I was looking for a new one because the old one was a JERK! He wouldn’t change my thyroid meds from Synthroid….told me that Armour was incapable of making me feel better that Synthroid was the ONLY drug he prescribes. I actually called this compounding pharmacy in our area and asked the pharmacist if he receives scripts for natural thyroid and he confirmed he did. I then asked if he could give me some names…..which he did. Worked out nice for me, so far he has been very good about my thyroid.
I didn’t notice a difference with the compounded versus the Armour (old). Felt the same, except the pocketbook~
RE: Hair Loss Info
Hi Karen, Glad to share that info with you and I’m relieved that you didn’t have to go through Chemo. I am terribly sorry about your boyfriend’s mother though. Please tell her that I hope the rest of her treatments go quickly and I’m sorry that she’s having to go through that experience. And most importantly, that her recovery will be swift from the cancer. One of my other friends who had breast cancer had long gorgeous hair, like Jane Seymour’s, and lost every bit of it during her chemo. But she had real aggressive treatment. Now, however, her hair is back long and every bit as gorgeous as before, and no sign of any cancer. It must be awfully difficult to have the hair loss though. I hope the hot oil treatments and using a non SLS shampoo helps her.
Constance,
Thanks for the info on hair loss. No, I didn’t have to do Chemo thank goodness. My boyfriend’s mom is going through it. She has about 5 treatments left & her hair started falling out after about 3-4 treatments. They told her since it was a low dose Chemo that she probably wouldn’t loose it so I think that has made ti extra difficult. I have never heard of the SLS. I will look for that. The hot oil treatments sounds good also.
Thanks again for the info.
Karen
Help With Ferritin: For Annie
Hi Annie, Bethanie will be online in the afternoon today, but she asked me to get this posted up for you so that you could read over the info about why we all should have our ferritin levels checked when we have a thyroid problem.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-e-living/too-tired-to-exercise-the-secret-even-some-doctors-dont-know
If anybody needs help this morning, I’ll be online helping out. Hope everyone had a nice weekend.
I’m in Texas, outside of Houston, and the local CVS pharmacies have no problem ordering it. (I realize this reply is late and hope your problem has been solved.)
If your CVS stores say they can’t get it, you could try calling (281) 363-9174 and talking to Bill. He’s a pharmacist, he’s been there for years, he knows how to order it, and he is unbelievable nice and helpful. (Just don’t tell him I put the store number on the web!)
Oh, to get a person in the pharmacy: Press 3, then 1.
Hello All,
Finally got the Thyroid book, which I am about half way through. It’s comforting to know that we are not completely abandoned by the medical profession, even though it often feels like it. I’m hoping to learn something new in the 2nd half.
As I previously mentioned, I was going to try taking my Armour at night so that I could go back to taking my multivitamins, calcium, etc, twice per day, and after some experimentation (mostly resulting in taking it too long before I went to bed and thus when waking in the night I had trouble getting back to sleep, and not sleeping more than a total of 6 hours), I think I have it right now. If I take it before I go to sleep, I sleep like a log. Will continue to see how this works, but so far so good.
Wishing everyone a great weekend….
Re: Taking Thyroid Meds on Empty Stomach: What’s considered Eating
Hi Annie,
Good to hear that your NatureThroid is working better and that you’re not having the afternoon sleepiness. On your question regarding what to do if you forgot to take your meds and ate breakfast, then it’s ok to take them sublingually and try not to swallow any of the remnants of the tablet. Ideally, you’d take it sublingually an hour before eating but we often to have improvise and if you forgot–then you just do the best you can.
The calcium in the cream (milk) can bind to the thyroid med and make it less effective, so again, in an ideal world you would have your thyroid med an hour before milk, coffee, cream, etc or any sugars.
In terms of waiting an hour after eating to take the meds I wouldn’t. I would take them sublingually and then just start back on your regular schedule the next morning. Because theoretically, it’s one hour before or 2 hours after food that can affect the absorption of medications.
If you are doing the sublingual route, then the med can be absorbed through the tissues in your mouth and doesn’t have to be processed through the stomach and be affected by other ingested foods or liquids.
Regarding your DO’s take on ferritin. She’s unfortunately misinformed on this issue, but I do understand that we all can walk a fine line with getting what we need from some docs vs needing to change docs. I now get an update of new articles/topics that will be posted to the main site as articles. And the Ferritin issue is one that will be addressed soon. As soon as that one is published, I’ll post a link here and hopefully that will help some of us who need more “proof” for our doctors.
And thanks for posting your update on the NT. Seems like we’re getting more and more patients wondering what to do about the new Armour, and having feedback from everyone else who has tried both is really helpful to others who may be just starting out with being newly diagnosed and not knowing what to do.
Re: Hair Loss from Chemo Treatments
Karen, I’m not sure about EPO, but I have heard that Vitamin B Complex and Biotin can be helpful for hair growth. Checking your shampoo to make sure that it doesn’t have something called SLS. I think Neutrogena has one that is SLS free. Some of the organic lines may also have SLS free shampoos.
Once a week, I use a hot oil treatment on my hair. I use warm almond oil about 1/4 to 1/8 cup and add about 10-15 drops of lavendar oil, you can also add in tea trea oil and/or freshly dried rosemary leaves if you like. I wrap up a warm towel, cover my head and leave this in for about 20-25 minutes.
Low ferritin levels can also affect hair loss, so ferritin is a good thing to check.
Did you have to go through chemo? My best friend just finished her treatment and is doing great. But it was tough for her to get through it and I wanted to be there for her as much as possible without being a pest.
Constance
P.S. I love this site too. Even if I don’t post much I come here to get good tips. I have low thyroid and my ferritin was only 2, and my hair was falling out. My doctor said the low thyroid and ferritin could be making it worse. now taking iron supplements. We will see if they help.
Sandra & EPO
Does anyone know if the EPO will help with hair loss from Chemo treatments?
Sandra, I am glad yo have you found what works for you. I am still on the path but think I am finally on the right path. I love this site & everyone who shares great information.
Thanks,
Karen
Hi – checking in after over a week of the new NT –
I seem to stay awake the entire day – rather than craving a nap at 2pm which is nice. I am not amped or jittery – just feel normal. As Amber posted above – I too have a warm and “fluttery” feeling in my heart. Its not tachychardia or pain, but rather a buzzing tickle – so hard to explain. Feels like hydrogen peroxide is bubbling in my sternum. Its not indigestion or gas either – this sensation is transient and just occurs and then fades. Trying to roll with it and not worry too much.
I asked my DO for additional labs at the next check and she declined to do ferritin – stating that she only does that if the person is anemic, which I am not. Other than that she has been relatively cooperative in ordering tests and meds. I dont want to come across as overbearing by reading the internet and books and telling her how to practice medicine – its a slippery slope and it requires tact. I do sense a bit of eye rolling and “oh great, another patient who reads something on the internet and suddenly they are a doctor”
QUESTION: I know its ideal to take on an empty stomach and wait before eating… but what if you forgot and ate breakfast, then took the meds. I ate a bowl of oatmeal and then realized I forgot to take the meds. Would it be a waste of time and not absorb or just not be AS effective? If I accidentally eat, should I wait an hour before taking the meds or just take it anyway…. is coffee with cream/sugar considered “eating”…
Sherry, have you tried any other natural thyroid medication other than Armour? With the change in formulation there are lots of patients reporting problems with it. Most are having good success with another natural thyroid medication called Nature-Throid.
If your Free T3 and Free T4 levels are where you want them to be along with your TSH and you feel your best, then it probably is good to keep doing what you’re doing if it’s working really well for you now. If, however, you still have symptoms or if your Free T3 and Free T4 and TSH are not in a good range, then please just ask for some help on looking at other natural thyroid medications other than Armour.
Re: Naturethroid and EPO (Evening Primrose Oil)
Sandra, I was so glad to come online and see your message. It’s wonderful when our thyroid meds work and we can start feeling like a human being again. And your update on the EPO is also appreciated very much. I’ve heard that it can help reduce the hair loss that can accompany our thyroid problems.
And you’re seeing a ND. I’ve always wanted to try that, I think they are more well trained in looking at the entire picture. What a great combo to have both the MD and the ND. Did you just find him from another patient’s recommendation, or did you go to a registry of some sorts and try to look up MD’s who also have their ND?
Finally, $6 vs 25 every month is a big difference. Did the compounded make you feel better, worse, or the same as the NT makes you feel?
Been on the Naturethroid now for about a week. My chest pain has greatly subsided, I don’t feel so anxious. I also started taking Nature’s Bounty Prescriptive Formulas Women vitamin packs (found at CVS) along with Evening Primrose Oil (EPO). I have noticed a HUGE difference already. I almost feel “normal”. I have taken EPO before when I was having increased hair loss and it was a blessing. I am having hair loss issues right now but nothing like the first time. I am sure it will help again. I will go again in a few weeks for bloodwork to see how I am doing on the new meds. Keeping fingers crossed!
And Saunthy, I totally hear what you are talking about. I was on Synthroid for years until I FINALLY found a doctor to write me an Rx for Armour. Loved the stuff until recently. Thank goodness my doc is not only an MD, but an ND and listens to his patients. I’ve done the compounded version as well, the downside…..they don’t use your insurance. I paid $25/mth for the compounded thyroid and now spend like $6 on the Naturethroid (2 grains). Try the EPO as mentioned above for your hair! It takes 1-2 months to notice, but it works!
I couldn’t wait to try Armour Thyroid at a time when my adrenal function became low. I had been on levoxyl for years. This was my overall approach to a healthier lifestyle. The sad new is that I began to feel so much worse, but continued to blame it on my adrenal function. To make matters even worse my doctor left the practice where I was being treated and moved away. Fortunately, about two years into this nightmare my husband’s company did health test on employees and their spouses who opted for them. My tsh had escalated to 40 something. This explained so much! When I was prescribed the levoxyl again, my tsh returned to normal fairly quickly. Would be willing to try Armour again if I was sure about the formula and was carefully monitored by a doctor for rising tsh levels.
Re: Armour Change and Weight Gain: Hashimotos
Hello Saunthy, I can only say that I really do emphathize with what you and your daughter are going through. It’s been an awful experience for so many of us. And I know what it’s like to have to go through different thyroid medications and then finding one that worked wonderfully…and then have that taken away from you.
I would definitely call and/or write Forrest and let them know. I’m not holding my breath though that they’ll change back, but that would be so welcome for thyroid patients worldwide.
In the interim, there are really three other choices for natural thyroid medication that I know about:
1. Naturethroid, made by RLC Labs is a natural dessicated thyroid medication. Are you in the States or overseas? For those who don’t want to order Canadian Meds, this seems to be the one of choice
2. Erfa, which is the Canadian Version of Natural Dessicated Thyroid: Some say it is just like the old Armour and works great. Others are saying that they have to adjust their dose on it and some need to take more, while still others don’t like it. It does taste like the old Armour if you take it sublingually, and again, many think it’s their #1 choice
3. You can try compounded, where your doctor would write you a script for compounded, but if you do this MAKE SURE that your doc writes the compounded for NATURAL DESSICATED THYROID powder. I’ve been hearing more and more where people are not doing well on compounded, and paying out the nose for the medication, and they’re getting synthetic thyroid powder not natural. The other thing you have to watch out is the fillers. IF you’re using compounded make sure the compounding pharmacy uses something like Acidophiles or Olive Oil. Some fillers prevent folks from having a good result. And finally, compounded is generally very expensive. Mine would have cost 10x as much, and so that’s not an option for my budget:-)
Also, you may want to try crushing your Armour and taking it sublingually with about a drop of honey. For some….not all, this has helped make it a little more effective. Just something to try but you may want to get another backup prescription filled regardless if you decide you are fed up with the symptoms.
Please keep in touch and share what you decide and give us feedback if you will how whatever you decide to use is working for you. We are a group of thyroid patients doing our best to help each other out so that we can get through this….
Thanks again for joining the thyroid discussion group! Hope you come back and participate often.
Hi All,
My 15 year old daughter and I both have Hashimoto’s and our doctor miswrote her prescription for Armour and so we had a stash for a while.
We just ran out of the old stuff and started on the new stuff. Maybe it’s been two weeks now and oh no!!!!
I’ve gained weight, my face looks like a moon, my muscles and joints ache and my hair is coming out in clumps.
Enough already!!! I was diagnosed 16 years ago, went through synthroid and levoxyl until I found a doctor who would prescribe Armour. Now this! What can we do to change this? I am incensed. This is taking my life away and is affecting a myriad of others and I am mad about that.
What else can we do after we call Forrest?
SNS
High TSH, Change to Armour Question:
Hello Patty,
Prior to 1999, Armour was generally found to be the most popular natural dessicated thyroid hormone medication. Once Forrest Labs reformulated it, there’s been many patients complaining of side effects. It’s difficult to say if your more frequent urination could be related to the Armour. I have heard of many patients who are hypothyroid also have joint pain and end up with a fibromylagia and hypothyroidism diagnosis. In those patients more frequent urination is a symptom of having too little thyroid hormone.
Too much thyroid hormone could also potentially cause more frequent urination.
You may want to ask your doctor for another type of thyroid medication just to see if that corrects the issue. Many thyroid patients are having good results with a natural thyroid medication called Naturethroid. Walgreens is normally the easiest pharmacy to get that medication. Sometimes though they are out of it, and in that case you can order it from a pharmacy in AZ that is only a few miles away from the manufacturer. If you want the info on how to do this let me know and I’ll post it for you.
Muscle pain, is another symptom very common in low thyroid and fibromyalgia.
How are you taking the Armour? Some patients have better luck crushing the tablet, adding a small drop of honey, and taking it sublingually instead of swallowing it. Same goes for the Naturethryoid.
Do you know what your Free T3 or Free T4 Levels were?
Did your doctor test your Vitamin D (25 Hydroxy)?
Because everyone is so different sometimes it can take trying different thyroid meds until you find one that works for you. There was a gentleman that I heard about who recently tried 3 types of thyroid meds. The 3rd one that he tried works great for him now.
Keep us posted on what you decide and if you have any trouble finding Naturethroid if you want to try it, someone here can post the pharmacy info. In my city, Walgreens generally has it, but I’ve also used the AZ pharmacy a few times when I’ve been unable to get it locally, and they had very good, fast service.
Good Luck, and thanks very much for joining the thyroid discussion!
I started armour 2 weeks ago, I have been on levoxel for 8 years. My tsh got high so dr put me on armour. I’ve have to urinate all the time and my lower back is killing me. this is the only change I made, switching from one form of med to another. does anyone else have this problem? could i be allergic to something in it? hope some will have an answer. thanks (age 67 female)
Hi to all with thyroid troubles. I’m taking Armour and don’t have any chest pain but I do get fluttery feeling in my heart. Does this happen with all thyroid medicine?
Annie, Saundra and Nanci,
I’m having chest pains and am on the Armour thyroid medication. I don’t know if it’s the medication or not because this is the first time I’ve ever been on anything for my thyroid. My doctor diagnosed me with low thyroid and Hashimotos and says I will need to take medication for the rest of my life.
For anyone whose changed types of thyroid medications has your chest pain decreased? Thanks in advance for any input you all can share. This is so new to me it’s somewhat overwhelming.
Annie,
That would be very frightening to fall asleep at the wheel. It wouldn’t hurt to test your adrenals to see where you are. And just a suggestion, but if you’re that tired it may be worth a call to your doc to see if they ok going up to 1 grain of Naturethroid. And what you could do if they ok it is to take 1/2 of a grain of the Naturethroid this afternoon to see if you get any relief. Then see if your doc says that it’s ok to take the 1 grain starting tomorrow.
What can and does happen when we start taking thyroid medication is that it actually makes our own thyroids put out less thyroid hormone. Thus the initial starting on the medication, adjusting it normally upwards to accommodate this issue, and testing in 4-6 weeks. Some docs like you to wait the entire 4-6 weeks before making any adjustments. Others recognize that 1/2 grain does nothing for some people, and they ok an increase based on how the patient is doing.
The price was definitely very good on your NT. That’s wonderful knowing that the thyroid med doesn’t cost an arm and a leg.
Let me know what your doc says and I’d love to hear how your NT goes tomorrow.
Hope you can get a nap in at home this afternoon!
- Bethanie
P.S. I have a chart I was working on for you over the weekend. As soon as I can get it posted I’ll put an update for you here so you can see it. Hopefully it will explain some things about the thyroid lab testing and times of day.
Hi Bethanie – Thanks for the info on tinnitus, its interesting. I want to be cautious about blaming everything I have on this newly discovered thyroid issue, but when you write them down on paper the common denominator keeps pointing to thyroid problems.
After I wrote that note I left to drive home (45 minutes) and I was very pooped – I was yawning a lot. I was at a red light waiting there when I nodded off – my head snapped forward and I grabbed the steering wheel – I was scared. Thank God I was at a red light, but it was scary nonetheless.
I went to Rite-Aid and my new Nature-Throid was waiting there for me – only $4.83. I am starting it today and will investigate the B-12 and ferritin situation. Do you think its a wise idea to check the adrenals at this point? I am always tired like this (but dont usually fall asleep driving!)
Re: Tinnitus as a thyroid symptom
Annie, yes, Tinnitus is a fairly common symptom of being hypothyroid. Discussion about this will go in spurts. It seems sometimes if other thyroid patients are discussing it then you’ll get a surge of posts about it. Probably because you mentioned it there will now be others who may join in on that discussion.
There can be contributing factors and/or other factors which can cause tinnitus. For example,
Low Vitamin B12: 47% of those with tinnitus and like disorders were discovered to have Vitamin B12 deficiencies. ([Vitamin B12 deficiency in patients with chronic-tinnitus and noise-induced hearing loss. Am J Otolaryngol 1993;14: pp.94-9)
This is significant because many of us with thyroid problems also have low Vitamin B12. The trouble with regular supplementation ie: taking B12 by mouth, is that there are many issues that can make it difficult or even impossible for some patients to be able to absorb B12 orally. Some may find that sublingual tablets suffice, but for me, the only thing that helped was to get on B12 shots (which I can have a family member do for me once I got the prescription to save on costs).
The other nutrient that is sometimes found to be low in tinnitus sufferers is Zinc.
The inner ear is known to have high levels of Zinc. A study performed by Japanese Researchers were investigating whether or not low zinc levels could coincide with tinnitus. And the researchers found that tinnitus symptoms in those study participants who had low zinc levels improved after zinc supplementation after two weeks.
In other studies done, with regards to the relationship of zinc and tinnitus, 25% of patients improved after supplementing zinc for 3-6 months.
(Am J Otol 1985;6: pp.116-7)
On the chest pain it is indeed strange that so many people are having chest pain issues with the new Armour. Although chest pain can be a side effect of thryroid medication I don’t recall ever hearing so many reports with the old Armour.
I’ll be very very interested to hear how your Naturethroid does for you. And I’m still thinking that once you get switched over to it and see how the tinnitus does and the chest pain, that you want to ask your doctor about getting an increase up to the 1 grain level, because you were on such a small starting dose. Your physician may want you to get another blood test first—or may ok it. It depends on the physician.
Everyone else. I’ve been off the computer for a few days. So if there are unanswered questions, I’ll work throughout the day to get caught up.
Missed everyone, and good to be back.
- Bethanie
I am 7 days on the new Armour and still feel chest pain and tightness – and I am not biased towards the “old” Armour since I never used it. There is no way this is my imagination since others are also having similar experiences. I don;t feel bad otherwise – not jittery .. just a squeezing in my sternum and I want to take a deep breath all the time.
I am calling today to get a new Rx for “1 grain of dessicated thyroid” so I can fill either with Naturethroid or the Canadian one.
QUESTION: Have others complained of tinnitus? I read a few posts and articles of it possibly being related to thyroid issues – and was wondering if that was not very a common symptom.
Sandra, I’m so happy that you posted, and I’m hoping that your new Naturethroid works out. I’d be very grateful if you could stay in touch here and let me know how you feel with it. And especially if your chest pain gets any better with the Naturethroid vs the Armour.
I know what you mean about being scared. It’s pretty disconcerting to have chest pain and not know why. I didn’t get an increase in my thyroid meds. The only difference was I had opened a new bottle when the chest pain started. I was taking the same dose but I did notice that I felt more energy with the new bottle. But with the new energy came the chest pains.
I’m really glad I found this place. It helps to have other patients to talk to, and I’m so glad that I’m not the only one wondering about Armour and chest pain.
Nanci
Getting my new Naturethroid today….hoping for the best!
Nanci, I experienced the same dang thing with the chest pain. It scared the heck out of me which put me in total anxiety which I already had because my meds were increased pushing me into hyper. Did you just recently get an increase? Somebody will help you out on this board….everybody is wonderful.
Chest Pain Question with Armour Thyroid
Everyone must be tired of hearing about this, but add to me your group of thyroid patients having trouble with Armour thyroid. I’m not only having the heart palpitations but am having chest pain. Because my husband is a worry wort, he insisted that I go get an EKG and get checked out. Nothing was found so I’m back to square one.
Since I never had any chest pain before and my palpitations began shortly after the Armour was reformulated I’m wondering if there is a link between the two. Is chest pain common with thyroid medicines, or just with new Armour? Are there any particular things I need to watch for to make sure that I’m not getting too much medicine? Do you think I should just switch to another thyroid medication or should I try to adjust my thyroid dose?
Kathy, Thank you very much for the magnesium suggestion. My sister in law has migraines and told me to try magnesium and I had forgotten about that so I’m glad that you suggested it. I may also just ask my doctor for a prescription for the Naturethroid so that I have it. I found that idea because someone else had said to go ahead and ask for different prescriptions if you think you may need them in the one doctor visit so that you don’t waste time having to schedule another physician visit etc. So that makes sense to me also.
I’m so excited that I found your group. Hope everyone else is doing well and that you all had a nice Holiday weekend.
Re: Vitamin C Mixing Ideas
Karen, love it. Grape – that actually sounds good to me. I may try all of the flavors because I know water is good for us, but at least once a day I like to have something to mix it up a bit so that it’s not so boring. Lemon works for me for a while, but grape sounds delicious right about now. I’m really glad you mentioned this. It’s a big help.
Linda – Vitamin C mixing
You are welcome! I thought I would put it out there to see what others might be doing. I drink water all day long but when I mix the CL, I can drink it in NO time. I don’t have one of the CL’s every day but guess I could because they are not bad for you. So much better than soda. I don’t know how my adrenals are. I will be getting labs done again in Oct. so hopefully I will know then. The flavors are Grape (which might sound crazy to mix with the Vitamin C but that was the 1st one I tried & it wasn’t bad.) Lemon-Lime, & Strawberry-Kiwi.
Yes do let me know how it works out for you. Glad I could help!!
Headaches and Thyroid Question
Pam, I was having more headaches after Armour changed the fillers in the thyroid medication. I also felt “off”, not quite myself and my hair started falling out again which for me is a big clue that I’m going down the hypothyroid road.
I changed to the Naturethroid and am feeling better. I think the switching around hasn’t been the easiest on my body though. I’ve added magnesium 2x a day and apart from my thyroid meds, and this seems to be helping me not get so many headaches. If I do get a small little pressure in my head, it seems like if I take the magnesium then that it goes away.
Headaches, Hashimotos and Armour Question
I am amazed at how you all are helping each other with your thyroid questions. It will take me a while to get through everything, but I came across this page online and thought this is where I need to be today. I have Hashimotos and have been taking Armour thyroid for close to 4 years now. I guess I may be having problems with the new type of Armour. Not sure, but wanted to see what you all thought. I am having headaches almost every day, and having difficulty staying awake in the afternoon. My energy in the morning is ok, but by early afternoon I’m just soooo tired. In the past I’d maybe get a migraine once or twice a year, but nothing horrible. Now, I’m finding that my head is throbbing pretty much every day. I’ve had an MRI which shows nothing. My doctor says it couldnt’ be the thyroid medicine but I’m not so sure. Anyone have ideas or suggestions for me?
Re: Your Suggestion for What to Mix with the Vitamin C Power
Hello Karen, I am very glad you posted this info. I just got my Vitamin C powder also, and it is indeed tart! Whew…at least it wakes me up in the morning. What I do in the am. is to put some of it in my smoothie, it’s not bad that way, but I love your suggestion about trying it in the Crystal Light because I’m trying to have some Vitamin C throughout the day as my adrenals are not in great shape, and I need to take some at night with my iron supplement.
What a great idea…going to go to the store today and pick up some of the CL Pure Fitness and will let you know how it works for me.
Thanks again.
What to mix with Vitamin C Crystals (Now brand of Ascorbic Acid)
I just started taking the Vitamin C powder. Wow it is very acidic. I did read that you can take it with Orange Juice which I just bought some yesterday. Last week I also tried it in the Crystal Light Pure Fitness drink mixes mixed with water & it’s not bad, can barely taste the Vit C. There are only 3 flavors that I am aware of right now. It is made with Rebiana (Stevia) instead of aspartame.
Karen
Hi Karen,
I didn’t get too much time to review my thyroid book. Got the lemonade though:-) We had some out of town guests come in unexpectedly. But that’s ok, the book isn’t going anywhere.
When you get around to it if there’s anything you want to talk about in the book, just say the word. Tina can join us if she wants to. Sometimes it helps I think if you can run things by each other. And although I love the book, it has some complex subjects that are covered so having a “thyroid buddy” may help.
Hey, let me know when you get around to it what you think about the B12 book. I have that one too–definitely skipped around on that book. Couldn’t believe how many conditions are misdiagnosed with other things that could potentially be corrected by B12.
And you are welcome on the iron and magnesium info. It’s always a lot to juggle to try to get our thyroids back in good working order.
Enjoy your day, and thanks again Karen for the chat.
Carin
Carin,
I have not had much of a chance to read my book yet. I read a few pages at lunch last week. My plan was to read straight through but I may change my mind. Yes, it would be good to discuss different topics in the book. I am game. I also got the B12 book that Bethanie suggested. It will probably take me forever to read both because I am not a book reader & don’t seem to have much time at night when I get home from the gym.
I hope you were able to have your glass of lemonade & re-read your book. I was gone most of the weekend & had to do stuff around the house yesterday so no time for reading.
Thanks for your tip on taking iron & magnesium.
Take care,
Karen
New Armour Formulation Question : For Kim
Hi Kim, welcome to our thyroid discussion. As you can probably tell, the trouble with thyroid medication is that it affects everyone differently. Having too much or too little thyroid medication can be very uncomfortable and of course, keeping yourself safe is the # 1 concern. With chest pain, it can be very scary and because heart troubles often show up differently in women than in men, I think it’s wise to pay attention to your symptoms and if you have any pains that are worrisome at all, then it wouldn’t be a bad idea to see if you could speak to your doctor’s office (whomever is on call to get some medical advice) or maybe even check in with an urgent care center or emergency room just to be sure if you have chest pains that are new or worrisome.
Regarding the new Armour, there have been quite a few patients who have reported the heart palpitations–that had never occured before while on either other thyroid medication or on the old Armour.
Low Ferritin can also trigger some heart palpitations when thyroid hormone is introduced and also adrenal fatigue can also be involved.
We are a patient to patient thyroid support group here, so we are not medical professionals, but if you’d like some feedback on your labs so that you could get some help with what to speak to your doctor about, please feel free to post your labs here, along with the ranges, and someone can give you a better idea about what your labs mean and perhaps some other testing to ask for to help you feel better on your thyroid medication.
Do you have copies of your thyroid lab testing?
Glad you have joined us and please let me know if you have copies of your labs.
Hi Everyone,
This is great info. I have been feeling hyperthyroid. I have minor chest pain so I did not take my medication today. Reading all this new info has made me a little nervous. I have never been on Armour until the new formulation and I do feel better but suffer for anxiety and have rashes on my skin that had not been there before. I still feel the ups and downs as if I have not been treated for T3. I have not lost any weight.
Does anyone think this is related to the new formulation? Thanks for your time
Kim
Hi Group – things are starting to fall in place so I appreciate everyone who has posted their experience and questions.
I was reading the older posts about tinnitus. I have tinnitus too! I have had this since 8/2000 when I was in a car accident. I was rear-ended pretty hard and had whiplash so bad it hurt to swallow – like I had strep throat. Yes, whiplash in the front of my neck – not the back. About a week after – my ears were ringing so loud, I thought that was hearing a radio on somewhere in the house. I had an MRI of the brain many years later which showed “empty sella” this is the little sac that protects your pituitary – where the TSH signal comes from… wow… is this just a coincidence or could it all be related?
I have been 1 week on the Armour and trying to pay close attention to any effects. I had 1 incident of heart palpitations when I layed down for bed and several days of chest tightness or warm squeezing feeling in my heart. Could be a touch of anxiety about taking this meds and wanting to feel something or could be real – hard to say. I have had heart palpitations before – but not in at least 6 months. I have read elsewhere that the heart racing thing will stop in a couple of weeks after you adjust to the new meds. True?
I think its good that I am brand new on this med and have not experienced old vs new so I can relay my newbie experience without having a preference for the older formulation – is 1 week simply not enough time to feel much of anything? I am only on 1/2 grain so its a tiny amount. Should the chest tightness be cause for alarm or is it just an annoyance? I dont feel bad otherwise.
Tina, good to see you back. I was missing hearing from everyone with the holiday etc. I have the thyroid book, and I know Karen said she rec’d hers. When you get yours maybe we could have some mini discussions on some of the info, so we could all learn together. I find it a fascinating read but it’d be neat to have some thyroid “study group” buddies:-)
Did you get a used copy of the book? I got mine direct from Amazon–it’s a fault of mine. I have no patience and since it was a few dollars more but I got immediate gratification I ordered a new one so that I’d have it in my impatient hands. LOL
In terms of the iron and such I take my thyroid medication 2x a day like you said you want to do yours. First thing in the morning for me, and then about 5 hours later. The T3 is supposed to have a 1/2 life of around 5 hours so if I take it about 5 hours from my a.m. dose it seems to work better. I’ve tried taking it all at once (all in the morning) and that sometimes works ok, but I’ve changed to the 2x a day because of the 1/2 life thing with the T3.
I take my magnesium early evening to relax, and then take my iron right before I go to sleep with about 1000mg of my Vitamin C. So far, so good, it sure is hard to balance all this stuff out. I know I can’t take my thyroid before going to bed because it jazzes me up too much right after I take it. I figure I need the energy in the a.m. but I’d be very interested in seeing how the nightime dosing works for you.
Enjoy your Labor Day and wonderful to see your post.
Carin
Sandra, The “new” Armour thyroid has had lots of problems and complaints from thyroid patients. I used to take it until my heart decided to do “flip flops” and although I never, ever had these from taking the old Armour, with the new one it was pretty constant that I had these heart palpitations. This was not only uncomfortable, but the fatigue was constant with the new Armour, and I felt my symptoms before I was diagnosed were coming back,
I know however, that there are some thyroid patients who are still doing “ok” with the new Armour. I hear most about the ones who are not, and given a choice on which thyroid medication to ask for, the new Armour would not be my first choice if it were me.
I know many that still take the old Armour use this little tip: Buy a pill crusher and use that to crush your Armour then add a small drop of honey to it and take it sublingually. Because the new Armour has more cellulose in it and less sugar there is a theory that crushing the tabs and adding the honey will make the medication more absorbable. Some are also using this technique with the Naturethroid, so you could try that with whatever medication you decide upon.
If your ferritin is too low this can definitely impact your anxiety, especially if you start on thyroid medication. Did you doctor order ferritin on your labwork? How about Vitamin D or Vitamin B12? Do you know what your TSH, Free T3, and Free T4 levels are?
If you don’t have a copy of your labs I would definitely ask for a copy and then do so from now on out, so that you can always monitor how you are doing with your thyroid treatment. And if you want some feedback on your labs — you can always post the results here along with your lab ranges, to get another paitient’s perspective on what to ask your doctor.
Welcome to our thyroid group, hope you’re enjoying your holiday, and we hope you’ll visit often and keep in touch with how your’re doing.
Happy Labor Day all,
First time I’ve checked in for days, so it’s been good to catch up. Still no sign of the book, but in the meantime I’m going to try something on my own tonight. The endo is convinced that I’m at steady state with the Armour Thyroid, so to prove him right or wrong, and because I want to get back to taking my supplements twice per day again, but had stopped doing so because of the whole iron/calcium within 4-5 hours of taking thyroid meds thing, I’m going to take 90mg right before I go to bed. I took my vitamins right after supper, and it will be at least 5 hours before I go to bed, so it will be interesting to see whether I sleep. If I do so, without issue, then I might have stumbled upon a solution to my iron deficiency.
Will let you know whether it works.
Hi Karen, Glad to help on the magnesium question. I have the Thyroid book, it’s one of my favorites. It could be fun if some of us wanted to discuss certain points that he makes. In fact, thanks for reminding me. I’m going to have a quiet weekend at home so perhaps I can read some of the chapters that I bookmarked for re-reading when I had time. The time thing always seems to be an issue, but now, you just gave me a good excuse to have a lemonade and spend some time reading this weekend. Are you planning on reading straight through or going to specific chapters?
Hey Carin,
Thanks for answering the Magnesium question. I thought I had read it in someone’s post but couldn’t find it. Do you have the Thyroid Power book? I just got it & read a little at lunch. It seems like it is going to be a very informative book. Thanks Bethanie!!!!
Magnesium Question – For Karen
Hi Karen, yes, if you’re taking magnesium once a day, which is a good plan to start with, then take it at night right before bedtime. Magnesium relaxes the muscles so I take mine before bed so that I get some benefit from being relaxed. Happy Holiday Weekend Karen!
I am sure this has been discussed but I can’t find it.
Did I read that Magnesium should be taken at bedtime?
Thanks,
Karen
Annie from CA,
Thanks for posting the info on the insurance. I will be sure to try this in Oct. when I go again for my labs. It’s just sad that we have to tell the doctors what to prescribe & the admin people how to bill us. Oh well, if it makes us feel better then I guess it’s all worth it.
Bethanie,
I got my books & vitamins. I can’t wait to get started on both. Thanks again for your wealth of knowledge. I did have a question about the B12 injections. What do you get your Dr. to write on the RX for it since it is a certain compound that you have requested? Then do you fax the RX to People Pharmacy or what?
The Vit Cis pretty strong when taking with just water…. I will have to try the OJ. I was surprised at how bad the Selenium smells… Yuck.
Thanks for everyone’s input & comments! Hope you all have a wonderful holiday weekend!
Karen
Yikes – whoooooaaaaa horsey – I’m getting confused!
I thought the TSH would go down after taking meds since your body was adjusting to the T4/T3 combo. sigh… so confused.
Journal – check. Good idea.
Thanks for answering the other questions – it makes sense now. I was curious about the half life.
I used to have episodes of rapid heartbeat for no reason. Feels like an anxiety attack and I have gotten used to it.. I just ride it out until it goes back to normal. I had a holter monitor for a week or so, but never captured an event – so it was mysterous and unresolved. The MD told me to do the valsalva manuever whenever I felt one coming on
My EKG is fine, heart is healthy…(so they say) BP is very good never more than 110/80 or less at times. Temps are low usually (I was told it was because I was probably always dehydrated) so thanks for the tip on taking the temp regularly.
I will get that other labwork soon and post the results. Thanks again.
Hi Annie, I’m sure you’re ready to feel better. Good grief you’ve only been waiting 20 years:-) I remember like yesterday how I felt when I knew I had something that could be fixed.
I wanted to shout from the highest mountain. Let’s fix this thing now, and get the show on the road!
So I understand about your wanting to get started on the Armour. Just do be on the lookout for side effects, and one possible “side effect” that’s not really a side effect is that for some people they just don’t get the results that they’re looking for. My TSH went up soooo high taking the new Armour, and I went very hypothyroid, as did many others, so just keep in the back of your mind if it’s not working for you after about 1-2 weeks, then I’d really do some pushing to get your NatureThroid ordered from Arizona if you can’t get it locally, or try the Canadian Thyroid or even compounded if you want to, although I shy away from the compounded because there is no guarantee that that will work better for you either, and it’s expensive.
I don’t want to dash your hopes totally though. Because for some, Armour is still working or for some new patients it works ok for them. Just try to see how it does for you and let your body tell you how you’re feeling.
Keeping a journal is a good idea. Charting your medication, what you took, the amount you took, so that when you adjust it you’ll see the patterns. Also, getting an old style shake down type thermometer and taking your temperature under your arm first thing in the morning before getting out of bed and then once in the early afternoon and then charting these temps will give you some idea of how your thyroid medication is working as well.
Here’s where the subtleties of thyroid treatment get interesting. Fact is, no one knows how any of us will do with any of the medications. We just have to try it. There was an older gentleman recently that I helped, who had to try 3 different types of thyroid medicine before he found the one that works great for him now.
So there is some trial and error, and some adjusting of the dose, and sometimes types of meds before we hit that area where we go “Ah ha, this is what normal people feel like”. And then you actually feel like you did before you got so exhausted……
Ok, so back to your specifics:
You crushed and mixed with sugar: Good job there
Q: Why Would I not Want to Take My Meds Prior to the Next Lab Test?
A: Great question. And the reason that you only want to skip your morning dose, and then take it immediately after your lab test because if you take your med that morning, and then have the lab draw, sometimes your T3 will be artificially elevated from the tablet you just took, (T3 has a very short half life) and if you skip the morning dose and have your labs drawn first, then take it you get a more accurate reading of what your T3 is averaging over the entire 24 hour period. Because T3 has a short half life, so the other thing that some doctors recommend is for you to take 1/2 of your dose in the morning and 1/2 in the early afternoon. Some patients say that taking the medication in that manner gets rid of the afternoon slumps. Again, everyone is really different. For me, I have to take my entire dose in the am. Splitting it into 2 doses is not effective for me. And I know others who are the same. So you’ll have to determine what works best for you.
Back to why you want to skip your morning dose (just on the morning of your blood draw)
The other thing is that if you take your T3 in the morning and it is artificially elevated, then it gives your doctor a chance to say “Hey, your T3 is too high, we need to reduce your dose” even when you may feel like you need 10 naps in the afternoon, because your doctor is not seeing your blood levels in the afternoon, when many of us just crash, if we’re not on an adequate dose, she’s seeing your dose as high as it will be for the day, right after you took your pill.
Additionally, if you can take your blood test fasting, usually you will normally get a higher TSH than if you took it your blood test later in the day after eating. This means that many patients were NOT getting diagnosed with hypothyroidism in studies because no one was taking into account that time of day matters as does whether you have food in your stomach. Again, this is what happened during the studies, I know you said your last blood draw had results that were different. But in order to compare apples to apples you’d need to get one blood draw in the morning without food/fasting and then another one later in the day after eating your breakfast and/or lunch and see how your body reacts. Most of us don’t go that far, and just assume based on the studies that we’re getting the best reading of our thyroid levels by fasting for 10-12 hours, getting the labs drawn first thing in the am. and skipping our morning dose and taking it right after we get our blood drawn. Again, your call on what you want to do:-)
It’s important to recognize if you’re getting too much thyroid hormone so being alert for hyperthyroid symptoms is always a good thing. More often than not though, thyroid patients in general tend to be undermedicated, not overmedicated. A good rule of thumb is to start out slowly on the thyroid medicine, and see how your body adjusts to it, then raise slowly if you’re still having symptoms of hypothyroidism, and also until the Free T3, and Free T4 are in an optimal range. Your TSH will have a tendency to immediately be supressed on the natural thyroid medication, either on Armour, The Naturethroid, or Canadian or if you get the compounded natural dessicated thyroid hormone so be prepared to educate your doctor if she looks at your TSH and proclaims you “fine” or “great” when/if you’re still not feeling fine or great.
Q: How Long with the 30mg (1/2 grain) of Armour before I feel a bit better?
A: I wish I knew an exact answer for you, but I simply don’t know. Let me give you a bit more info so that you can start thinking about options etc. The 30mg is a really low dose, first of all, it maybe, maybe more conservative then you need to be in terms of what dose your doctor prescribed. Now, having said that, it is better to start with a low dose, and raise slowly than get you all hyperthyroid and have to try to go back down on the dose. So if you are not feeling something —meaning less exhausted or the exact same way after one week, you may consider asking your doctor if you can go up to 1 grain which would be 60mg and hold there for a while. The T3 if you’re taking enough should give you an added energy boost, but the T4 can take a few weeks to build up in your system.
The other thing in terms of fatigue is really the ferritin. And that complicates things a bit because even in the event that between now and 6 weeks if you happen to get jittery at all, or your temps raise, or your heart is tachycardic, beating too quickly, we won’t know if that’s because of the Armour (ie: the new version) or because you simply are too low in ferritin which is very, very common in hypothyroid patients.
The B12 is also known to be low in hypothyroid patients and can be a cause of the fatigue, but please stay in touch throughout your process and remind me again to help you with a list of labs to get tested before your 6 weeks are up so that you don’t miss anything.
I hope that gives you a little more help with what you can expect. I know it’s a real pain to have to have all these unknowns, but it truly is worth it once everything falls into place for you.
Thanks for the great questions Annie. I’m sure you’ve helped lots of others who have thyroid issues also.
I started the “new” Armour yesterday since NatureThroid is taking a while to get approved. I was eager to get started on something just to give it a chance.
I crushed and mixed w/sugar. All day was hyper aware of any possible sign of it’s effect.. do I feel different? is my heart beating faster? Am i jittery? Was it the coffee I drank? LOL… Guess I am way too anxious about this…
QUESTION: Why would I want to not take my meds prior to the next lab test? Wouldn’t I want to see if the meds were improving my levels? For example, if I took my pill in the am, went and got the labs a few hours later and Free T3 was at 2.5 but without the meds its 1.5 – wouldnt it look as if the meds are not working for me? Just curious.
OTHER QUESTION: About how long with the 30mg (1/2grain) of Armour before feel a bit better? I was super tired by 11am today and yesterday by 5pm – Granted – I completely realize its only been 2 days. Just overly eager to feel better and know that it’s not me that is always tired – but rather the meetings I attend are truly boring.
)
Sandra, yes, we’re all in the same boat trying to figure out all the symptoms that make dealing with thyroid problems such a joy. And no, we’re not crazy:-)
Anxiety can also be caused by either too low levels or inadequate thyroid hormone (like in Jennifer’s case where her thyroid got larger from the goiter) because she wasn’t receiving appropriate medication or too much thyroid hormone.
The other biochemical aspect of this is that if your ferritin is too low which means below about 50, then that can be a cause of anxiety especially for those of us on thyroid meds.
Do you know what lab tests your doctor usually checks for you? Has he checked your Free T3, Free T4, TSH as well as your ferritin? Have you ever been checked for low B12 levels? The B12 can get depleted during stressful times in our lives, and this can lead to anxiety and is another one of those things that can get missed or left undiagnosed for years. Vitamin D3 should also be tested in the form of Vitamin D 25 Hydroxy.
If you have any of your latest lab tests and want some opinions about how your labs look please post them with the lab ranges and you may get some other helpful ideas about what to discuss with your doctor. Yes, it’s true that sometimes anxiety can cause certain symptoms, but many times anxiety is not only related to stress, it can be a combination of the stress in our lives, + certain lab values that may have not been tested or overlooked.
Welcome to the thyroid group!
Thanks Annie and Jennifer for your comments. I figured it was anxiety since I have been stressed out to the max plus the snafu with the increase in meds. It is either my throat feeling weird or tightness in my chest/back…..it switches. I am still waiting to hear from my doctor to see if he will switch me to the Nature-Throid….I don’t think he will have a problem with it since he is also alternative doc as well as MD. THANKS to all, it is nice to know that people out there have the same crap going on….WE AREN’T CRAZY!!!!
Sandra, I also had a problem with feeling like I was having something in my throat and at night, mine was worse. Sometimes I would wake up and feel like I couldn’t breathe. And yes, it felt like anxiety or panic but it was really because my body subconsciously was afraid I wasn’t getting enough oxygen. I had been on the old kind of Armour for about 8 years–then all of a sudden the change happened, and I didn’t know. Had all these wierd symptoms and my doctor was quite dismissive. Even asked the pharmacist if I could have gotten a bad batch of Armour and he said it was possibly but unlikely etc. So all the time this was happening–it was the ingredient change for me that made it no longer work. I have Hashimotos and my goiter got so large that they were considering surgery. I wanted to wait until I changed thyroid medication so I did make the switch to Naturethroid and am pretty confident my next ultrasound will show a smaller goiter and nodules because the choking feeling is getting less and less.
Glad you posted, and welcome to the group!
Sandra – I had the same symptoms and I was not on any meds. It felt like I had a wad of bread in my throat and it went away if I drank water, but came back in a few minutes. It drove me crazy and often times I would describe it as food stuck in my throat or that sensation you get right before you cry aka “getting choked up” I was told it was “globus” or medically cricopharyngeal spasm, usually triggred by stress or anxiety, which was certainly the case in my life when I was experiencing it. However, after learning about thyroid symptoms I am now second guessing that and wondering my my thyroid was swollen – I will never know now – but just some feedback for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cricopharyngeal_Spasm
I can speak to the insurance issues – being on that side of the fence for 23 years , both as a claims adjuster and negotiating rates with physicians, hospitals and laboratories.
I have not known a little test like ferritin levels to cause a stink with the insurance provider.
Not sure why the doctor would not order additional labs – you would just need a legitimate diagnosis to justify the test – what is called an ICD-9 code on the bill. The code should not be “routine” medical exam as that will surely trigger a denial if you already used that benefit for the year. The IDC-9 code should be something relevant to thyroid disorder or checking the iron for some reason. There are many codes that they can use. For example 244.9 is basic “hypothyroidsm” and Iron deficiency due to metabolism is 275.0 Many times billers are in a rush and just use the standard “routine lab” code – not realizing it could impact they way the claim is paid.
Just some insight from a billing nerd. Thanks!
I am so glad I found this website. I have been on Armour for about 2 years now. Went through the whole backorder thing as did everybody. Last month my doc increased from 120 to 150 mg (two different pills to accomodate this dose). I couldn’t figure out why my anxiety level went through the roof and panic attacks. Went to the doctor’s last Thursday to have him decrease the dose again. My anxiety feels better, but now I have what feels like a rock in my throat. It doesn’t hurt to swallow, but feels like I could gag all day long especially when I tilt my head/neck forward. Has anybody had this before? I am wondering if I cannot take the new reformulation….asked my doc to prescribe Nature-Throid. Comments welcomed.
Hormone Testing Information:
Happy Monday everyone. Karen, you’re very welcome, and I can’t wait until you and Tina receive your books. It will help a lot I think to have another physician’s recommendations that you can refer to so that when/if your doctor says Free T3 isn’t necessary or something else that it not correct our outdated, you’ll be prepared:-)
Here are the hormone tests for women that can be helpful to have checked or at least discussed with your OB/GYN who knows your own personal history
FSH
LH
Estrogen
Progesterone
Testosterone
DHEAS
If someone is on birth control pills then the physician may recommend using an alternative method of birth control and coming off of the birth control pills before getting some of the female hormones tested. Please check with your own personal physician first before making any adjustments to your birth control regimen etc.
It will be great to hear your feedback on the vitamins etc. But just keep in mind that the most important part, in my opinion, to have adjusted is your thyroid. Once you can find out about the Free T3, and Reverse T3, antibodies, etc, and to make sure the thyroid medication is both the optimal amount and the optimal type for you–then everything else is much easier. In conjunction with your thyroid of course, the supplements can really help support everything, and give you that extra oomph, and particularly, finding out about the Ferritin is of critical importance also.
Hey I just had an idea. Can you call your doctor’s office and find out how much it would cost you if you just paid out of pocket for the ferritin? I wouldn’t suggest going and having that done yet, but it may help you to plan in advance for how you’re going to handle it if you found out how much having that done would cost if your doctor gives you trouble saying that insurance won’t pay for it. And just so you know, I have never ever run into an issue with my insurance denying payment for a ferritin level. It may be that yours won’t cover it or possibly the doctor just says this because they didn’t order the ferritin with the first blood work that they did for you earlier in the year and your insurance only pays for one basic health screen per year… I don’t know, but sometimes they give really stupid reasons for not doing some of the very basic tests. And sometimes people will wait over a year to get a test thinking that they have to because insurance won’t pay, when in reality, it’s a test that could cost 49.00 or so, and so it may be worth it to go ahead and pay for it, if it helps you figure out what’s going on with your thyroid.
I hope you had a good weekend. I enjoyed mine but spent most of it helping a friend move. It was a good thing actually but kept me away from the computer, so I’m glad to be back and talking “thyroid” again!
Have a good Monday Karen!
Bethanie,
Thanks for posting the information for Tina S. and I would be interested in which hormone test to order as well. I went ahead and bit the bullet and ordered a bunch of stuff that you recommended from Amazon. I am looking forward to starting the vitamins. I am also anxious to have the Thyroid Power book & hopefully it will help when I take it with me to the Dr. so I can “kinda” educate him…..
I do drink plenty of water throughout the day so that shouldn’t be a problem. Thanks for the info on Vit E. I will have to take a look at that.
I hope you enjoyed your weekend!
I am limited also to the thyroid testing I can get–or so I thought. My husband lost his job and has been unemployed and we are now for the first time in our lives without insurance. So here I was thinking I couldn’t get thyroid testing done, and I know every place is different, but there is a low/cost or free health care clinic that I went to and I got my thyroid tests including the antibodies done. They are also helping me with my thyroid medicine. I’m just thankful that I could get some help because if I don’t have my thyroid medicine, I simply can’t make it through the day.
Adrenal fatigue is also very common in those with thyroid disorders. What can happen is that the body if it is not functioning as it should because of stress and/or overtaxed adrenals, then you don’t produce the required enzymes that are necessary to convert the T4 (the inactive form of thyroid hormone) to the T3 which is the active type.
If you have high levels of Reverse T3 you may be converting some T4 to T3, but most of the conversion process may be leaving you with Reverse T3, which is not able to get into the cells. So it’s kind of like having food in your pantry, but the pantry is locked, thus you can’t access it. Same thing with High Reverse
T3–it’s not available to your body.
Hi Bethanie,
You are so kind to respond, even though you worked a very long day. Thank you.
Unfortunately, my insurance will not pay for the majority of tests you suggest I should have, and being in the throes of trying to get my business up and running, with only my disability payments between me and total destitution, there is NO spare cash right now. None. I will go back to the doc and see if I can get the Free T3 and Reverse T3, but I know the others are definitely not covered.
My vitamin D levels are usually pretty good, and I supplement 2,000-4,000 IUs a day; depending on how much sun I get. Even though I live in the “Sunshine State” in the rainy -hurricane-season, which is now, it’s usually too hot and too wet to be outside for any length of time.
I take approx. 1,200-1,800 mg of buffered C every day – more if I need it. As for iron, if you look a few messages back, I refer to not taking it within 4-5 hours of thyroid meds (along with calcium;-) Fortunately, several years ago I found a very good multi-vitamin supplement, which I take to this day. But, I’m not getting enough iron, so I need to supplement, but can’t do so with conventional iron. It makes me horribly constipated. When I was pregnant with my daughter, back in the early 70′s, I was quite severely anemic and the doctor, upon discovering the adverse effects iron has upon me, prescribed that I drink red wine and Guiness every day!!! Back then, no one worried about FAS, or even really knew about it. Fortunately, my daughter is fine! Now there is no danger of me being pregnant again, I might try a glass of red wine daily, and lots of green, leafy veggies, which I eat anyway. Which brings me to my hormones: having been “spayed” in 1987, and hit menopause in the late 1990′s, I have no hormones! I even talked to my gynie about androgen patches, but I’m in no hurry. Please post the hormone tests anyway, as I am sure they will be of use to others.
When I was taking the 90mg, and felt wonderful, my basal temp never went about 98.1F, but was usually around 97.3- 97.7F. It’s now down to 96.3F (I just took it), having been on the 75mg for a month. Today, I went back to 90mg, even tho’ my TSH was 0.009 uIU/mL last time I was on thisdose, and as you can see from my latest TSH, at 75mg the levels did not improve much anyway.
My CMP was, as always, perfect: everything normal (e.g. cholesterol = 161, glucose = 87) so apart from the CRP, musculo-skeletal problems, thyroid, and CYP450 enzyme system dysfunction, I’m in really good shape:-)
Unable to take synthetic meds, I am very limited as to what is available to me, and my insurance will only pay for Armour, so at least for now I’m stuck with it. My local compounding pharmacist can help, but at $1 per pill, it’s not going to happen any time soon.
So, I look forward to receiving the book, and will let you know what I think. If it helps the doctors I work with see the light, then it will be a true gift….just like this site is! Happy weekend:-)
Karen, I’m glad my long winded explanation made sense about the DHEAS! It will be interesting then for you to have your DHEAS tested with your next labs and see if that helps put any pieces of the puzzle together for you.
In terms of the buffered vs non buffered vitamin C there are varying opinions on this. Some say the buffered is a good choice because it can help reduce the chances of forming stones in the bladder, however, others say that the additional calcium in the buffered versions along with the sodium content could in fact possibly increase the possibility of getting crystals in the urine.
My choice is just to use the unbuffered, because I have some people in my household who are very sensitive to “extra ingredients” and the type that I use (the link that I sent) is a brand that only has pharmaceutical grade ascorbic acid in it. It’s the fine powder so it is more bioavailable to the body. There are no fillers or anything additional:
Contains no: sugar, salt, starch, yeast, wheat, gluten, soy, milk, egg, shellfish or preservatives. Vegetarian/Vegan Product
I also think it’s a good idea to stay hydrated, and drink plenty of water during the day, and with the Vitamin C because that helps with urinary and bladder health.
I do split up my intake of the vitamin C. Actually I probably take a little more than 1/2 teaspoon split up throughout the day. If I’m feeling a cold or a little stressed or like I could be coming down with something I may double that, but most days around 1/2 teaspoon. Again, back off the Vitamin C a bit and start slowly with it, because it can give loose stools if you take too much.
Here’s the Vitamin E product that I use. (again, it’s gluten free, has no wheat, no dairy, no egg, no fish/shellfish, no peanuts/tree nuts)
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/vitamine
And you’re too kind, Karen:-) You’ve been very helpful as well, and I’m in awe each day how great it is to be able to talk to you all and get tips and pointers and help from everyone.
Thanks for all your insight and for being here too!
Hi Tina S, thanks for your patience. Was supposed to have this morning off, but ended up having to work not only the morning, but the whole day into the evening as well. Anyway, I’m finally back at my computer, so here’s the rest of my response back to you from yesterday:-)
1. I’m glad you were able to get the thyroid book and will welcome your comments once you have a chance to read over it. I don’t agree 100% with everything in it–but it is one of the better ones that does explain some of the tests, and the physician does a great job of explaining the “tyranny of the test” meaning that there are so many of us who are treated simply by numbers and not symptoms, and he gives some case studies of patients in his practice that were technically subclinically hypothyroid who improved tremendously when they started on thyroid medication.
2. You mentioned “the pre-printed lab requisition form for the thyroid tests”
That’s a huge problem, the pre-printed forms aren’t the most valid or accurate for thyroid testing. Dr. Shames goes into some of this in his book. The other problem with labs is like I’ve mentioned before, some will have different , or outdated ranges, and as thyroid patients we’re left to fend for ourselves and educate the very physicians that should know these things, but in many cases don’t.
3. I go into my doctor’s appointments with a list of thyroid labs that I want run. Unfortunately, after too many doctors disappointed me with their lack of knowledge about proper thyroid testing, I leave nothing to chance now, and I simply ask for what I want.
I bring in to my physician, a typed sheet which lists the tests below, then I double check my lab order that I am given with my list. If anything is missing I don’t leave the office and/or have my blood drawn until it is corrected. These Thyroid tests below are the most accurate ones, and the only ones you need initially to establish not only how your thyroid is functioning, but how much free and available thyroid hormone you actually have in your bloodstream. Only if something turns up from these tests that needs addressing would you have any need to have any other thyroid testing done.
Thyroid Tests NEEDED
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
TPO (Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody)
TG (Thyroglobulin Antibody)
That’s it for the thyroid hormones — the ones below are not needed
Thyroid Hormone TESTS YOU DON’T NEED
T4 (Thyroxine) 7.9 (4.7-13.3 ug/dL) ** This one is not measuring the FREE or bioavailable hormone that is active for your body to use, so it’s not the most accurate way to test
Since the Free T4, is more accurate you don’t need a regular T4
T3 Uptake 33 (31-39%) this is supposed to measure conversion of T4 to T3 but it is not as accurate as Free T3 so you don’t need it
FTI 2.6 (1.4-4.5 Index) -This is just an estimate of supposedly how much thyroid hormone is bioavailable or circulating, however, it doesn’t break it down into Free T3 or Free T4, which is what you need to know, so it’s not helpful
Total T3 1.21 (0.7-1.9 ng/mL) – Total T3 is not helpful, because that doesn’t tell you how much active T3 you have, which is why you need the Free T3 run, not the total
Dr. Shames says, in his book, as do many other experts in thyroid disorders, that the T3 uptake, the FTI, and the Total T3 are all thought to be considered by many these days “INADEQUATE”. Since they’re inadequate, there’s no need for your doctor to check them off on the pre-printed labs because they’re not as useful as the ones I mentioned before.
Now Additional Tests You NEED For Thyroid and General Wellness
Serum Iron, Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC), Transferrin Saturation and Ferritin.
Vitamin D, ( 25 Hydroxy) (or you can skip this if you’ve had it done recently and/or if your Vitamin D3 level has been stable for a while)
CBC – you said the lab forgot this
I also like to get a CMP (which is a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel with Differentials and Lipids)
once a year
And DHEAS to check your adrenals
Your Ferritin, at 49 is too low:
remind me what type of iron you are using to supplement, and are you taking 1000 mg of vitamin C with your iron supplement?
And not taking your iron within 4 hours of your thyroid medicine? I know this may be all old hat to you, but I always ask, and figure some new people if reading may need this info… so apologize for being redundant if you already know this:-)
Ok, so finally, because your doc didn’t order the Free T3, nor the Reverse T3 we still don’t know how much active thyroid hormone your system has.
If you are feeling ok, and not getting hyper symptoms the last thing I would do personally, if it were me, would be to reduce my thyroid medication without getting those numbers. If, however, I were having hyperthyroid symptoms, my pulse and temps were elevated, I was losing weight, etc, then I would think about reducing.
Now, finally, even once you get all your correct labs back, if you are still not feeling great, and/or gaining weight, while exercising, watching your diet etc, then it may be time to consider going to either NatureThroid, The Canadian Thyroid or the Compounded. There’s been good suggestions from others about asking your doc to write multiple types of prescriptions during the visit to save $$$ so that you can decide which one to fill and/or if you need to adjust and change to another you’ll be able to do that. Although it’s a pain in the “you know what” many of us just need to fiddle around with different meds and find one that works for us.
Sometimes adding Cytomel can also help depending upon what the Reverse T3 and your Free T3 Levels are.
Finally, there is some basic women’s hormone testing that you can ask for, because the other thing that can come into play is that sometimes our female hormones aren’t tested, and I have a list of the ones I think are most important to test, just ask and I’ll post them.
Hope that helps, and of course, keep us posted and thanks for all your participation and for being here.
And another: cardio-vascular disease. My fingers are dyslexic today….feeling draggy. Low thyroid!!!
Apologies – I just noticed a typo. That should say “pharmaceutical grade”
For whomever is looking for a good Vitamin C, I recommend using a buffered powder, without any fillers. It is more bio-available and will not adversely affect your teeth or digestive tract. Nutri-Biotic do both Calcium Ascorbate and Sodium Ascorbate powders that are pharaceutical grade, and free of any other ingredients. Personally, I take the Sodium Ascorbate, because I have low blood pressure and live in a hot climate (sweating a lot depletes sodium and thus it needs to be replenished), but for anyone who has concommitant cadio-vascular disease (e.g. high blood pressure, high cholesterol, or circulatory problems), I would suggest the calcium ascorbate. There are many brands on the market, but not all are as pure, nor as inexpensive.
Dear Bethanie,
Thank you for all your information that I have been reading. I thought I read that you said you had some patients that . . . etc. Are you in the medical profession?
Belinda,
Thanks for the link for the B12 book. I am sure Bethanie won’t mind one bit, she might even thank you since that is one less comment she has to make
I had stomach issues & heartburn at the 1st of this year with no real explanations. Gosh, I wish I would have known about this site then. The strange thing is my symptoms went away so I don’t really know what it was but it wasn’t fun….
I want to go back and read the 1st part of the dog article, I didn’t really have time last night. I am a huge animal lover especially cats. I have only one at home now. She is 18 & doing fairly well!
Thanks so very much!
Bethanie,
Many Thanks as usual Bethanie!. You are a wealth of information!! That’s strange about the DHEAS, I am not sure if mine would be high or low because I have always had oily skin on my face & still break out with acne at 41… Ugh, it’s not all the time but I still get breakouts. I will add that to the list for the Oct. testing. No, you explained the DHEAS very clear!
Yes, please do send me the Vit E that you take. It looks like I need to stock up on “The Good Stuff”. It’s amazing that vitamins can be SO different due to additives/fillers. So you only take a total of 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of Vit C a day but throughout the day? Is the Vit C that you take buffered or unbuffered? I was reading a little about that yesterday.
I think you are right, I am not going to take the Prilosec unless I need it. I couldn’t understand why I was getting heartburn so bad there for a while. I couldn’t pinpoint it because my diet hadn’t changed.
I have SO much good information from this site that I need to compile it better. Bethanie, this could be a full time job for you! Thanks for staying up late to respond to my questions!
Karen
Glad you liked the dog article Karen! I forgot to say that I’m so glad someone else enjoyed the article about the dog.I think it brought back so many memories for me of being in different doctor’s offices about my thyroid diagnosis. You have this, no you have that, nope, there’s nothing wrong with you–I wanted to say, “Do you think somone could make up their mind?” I started watching the show Mystery Diagnosis, it’s my favorite thing to tape and then watch when I have time. Right now I’m actually fairly happy with my doctors. I have both a good Nurse Practitioner and another doctor who is handling my thyroid.
Now if I could just get rid of this extra weight!
B-12 Book – For Karen
Hi Karen, it’s Belinda writing, I saw you asked Bethanie for the link on the B-12 Book and I’m sure she won’t mind that I send it to you.
I have the book and really like it. I’m sure Bethanie can explain more when she writes you back, but my mom had severe stomach problems for almost 2 years. Her doctor, in another state prescribed B-12 shots for her, and it was so helpful in getting her better. She also has more energy and there is something about the B-12 that can bring down the inflammation which is good for stomach troubles and the inflammation in Hashimotos.
I am taking the kind from the People’s pharmacy because it has the B12 and some other things which can help, but the book helps explain things that I didn’t know about before and it’s written by a doctor. Here’s the link for you.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/b12book
Bethanie,
I knew there was something I wanted to ask you. I didn’t see in previous comments the book that you were talking about for B12 is that the same as the thyroid book link you posted?
Thank you!
Karen
Hi Bethanie,
No rush, but I appreciate you checking in with me and the help you give us all, thank you:-) I went ahead and ordered a copy of the book you recommended…Amazon has used ones for $1.91 + $3.99 shipping. You can’t beat that!!!
I was thinking about what you said with regards to T3, both Free and Reverse, but as far as I can recall, the doc just checked everything thyroid-related that was on the pre-printed lab requisition form. It wouldn’t hurt me to ask to have the tests done…I have to go back to the doctor anyway, to get another script for the CBC.
Thanks again:-)
Tina S, I haven’t forgotten about you, just got back really late from work. I have a note I am in the middle of finishing up, but I want to finish it up tomorrow when I have a chance to finish it without being exhausted–so that I can give you the best info possible:-) Anyway, hope your night is going well, and you’re #1 on my list tomorrow to answer. Take Care.
Bethanie
DHEAS Questions and Info on Vitamins/Supplements for Thyroid Problems
Hi Karen, I’m a bit late, but wanted to get this info out to you. DHEAS (the test for it is called DHEA-sulfate) is a hormone that can be either low or high sometimes in patients with thyroid disease. The reason why is because it is produced by the adrenal gland and many thyroid patients also struggle with low adrenal function. It’s actually a precursor to testosterone, and you may think because we’re ladies that we don’t have to worry about testosterone, but that’s not exactly true either. Both men and women have testosterone in our bodies, and what can happen is that if the DHEAS and/or testosterone is too low or too high, it can cause symptoms. For some reason especially in women who are getting close to perimenopause, I’ve seen DHEAS levels drop and subsequently their energy levels drop and/or their testosterone could be too low. Furthermore, sometimes the adrenal glands–stressed already in thyroid disease, can overwork themselves and initially put out too much DHEAS which can lead to overly oily skin, acne, among other things.
In terms of the must have testing: it’s still good to have these basics done
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
And the antibodies: TG and TPO Antibodies
Complete Iron Panel including Ferritin
Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy
then, if your doctor will order it and if it hasn’t been done before than the DHEAS is just one more thing that can be checked to see if there’s an issue with the adrenal glands that was never tested. Some people, if they find that they’re too low on the DHEAS can supplement DHEA and feel great. Others are too high in DHEAS and can look at ways of lowering it. I hope I explained that ok…I know it’s late so feel free to ask for clarification if I’m not being clear enough:-)
Supplement Info: Here’s some that I like (note this website shortens the links but it should take you directly to the products on Amazon for you to review them)
1. Selenium: http://www.hospitalsoup.com/selenium
I like this brand because this particular one doesn’t have a lot of fillers/additives etc and it’s a reputable company (You can Take Selenium with a good quality Vitamin E) Let me know if you want me to send the one I use, but taking it together can help. Don’t exceed 200 mcg per day as too much selenium is not a good thing either. And don’t take selenium with Vitamin C – leave at least 1 hour between the two
2. http://www.hospitalsoup.com/vitaminc
This is my favorite Vitamin C: I take it a few times throughout the day, but you must be careful at first to build up slowly because too much Vitamin C can lead to loose stools. This is cost effective and you can mix it in a smoothy or drink. I take small amounts 3-4x per day but usually no more than a little more than 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon a day. Spreading out your doses, supports your adrenals, which is important for the thyroid
3. Magnesium: I like this one and recommend a magnesium glycinate instead of magnesium carbonate, because the carbonate kind that you can usually find at the local drugstore, is hard on the stomach and difficult to absorb. This one, I think is much easier on the stomach. Magnesium is good for the blood pressure, can be used by some people instead of even a beta blocker (with the permission and ok of their physician of course) and is just another one of those nutrients like Vitamin D which we are generally lacking
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/magnesium2
I think it’s really good that you’re also taking Acidophilus. I’ve read some studies which are saying there’s a big connection between the health of the gut, and our immune system so that is an excellent choice I think.
And the Prilosec, if you don’t need it, sounds like a good plan not to take it. Sometimes the thyroid meds taking them and swallowing them can be hard on the stomach. There’s another lady who wrote in and has some awful gut issues from the new Armour she thinks. That’s why I like the natural thyroid and doing the sublingual route. It saves your stomach a bit. So, as usual I have to put my little disclaimer in that any supplements are to be considered under consultation with your doctor….you know the drill; smile:-)
It’s really great to have others who are interested in this stuff. I’m fascinated by all the things we can do to help support our healing and feeling better. Have a great night, and remind me if I’ve missed some things.
Bethanie
I
Belinda,
That article was so very true. I never knew it until a few months ago because I have always been a healthy person besides my thyroid & I had NO idea that I needed to research & fight for my health like I do. Luckily there is this site to learn, vent, and teach us!
Hi everyone… Karen, you are most welcome for the info on the 2 prescriptions.
So I just had to write in today, because I saw this article and immediately related this to our thyroid struggles… It put a smile on my face. Let me know what you think if you read it!
Here’s the link to part II, but it’s a testimony why we all need an advocate when going to the doctor
Both Humans and Dogs!
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-e-living/what-my-dog-taught-me-about-getting-the-right-diagnosis-what-i-learned-from-my-dog-part-two
Hi Karen, thanks so much for the info on the new legislation..It’s awful what’s happening with healthcare these days. And I’m afraid it’s going to get worse before it gets better. Of course, with requiring prescriptions for items like you mentioned we’re all going to be paying even more….. Good grief, don’t get me started:-)
Ok, I’m still at work, so will answer more intelligently a bit later.
First, here’s the link to one of the thyroid books that explains about treating by symptoms, and using labs as guidelines and he explains a lot about the TSH and why it’s not the most valid way to treat/diagnose etc.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/thyroidbook
I’ll write more about your supplements. Thanks soooo much for listing them as it helps tremendously to see the whole picture of what you’ve been doing in order to suggest other things you may want to consider for the future. The thyroid is such a finicky organ, because it’s affected by the adrenals so much, there are things like supplementing with Vitamin C several times a day that can help our poor, stressed out adrenals. Again, I’ll write more later, but in my opinion, you have to do your best to select supplements that aren’t filled with ingredients that many of us thyroid patients, as well as some other people, don’t digest well. So when I respond, I’ll be at home so that I can share with you which brands I use.
And yes, you do need a prescription for the Vitamin B 12 injectable, but it is one of the things that I think has helped me the most, and the B12 book that I mentioned earlier is a really good one to take into your doctor as a reference if they are not “up on the B12″ or it’s importance.
Ok, gotta get back to work but I’ll be back later to finish up answering your questions. And yes, we’ll just have to stick together and not accept feeling miserable. We all deserve so much better than the medical care that many of us have received with regards to our thyroids.
Have a good one Karen, and thanks for your info again on the new legislation!
Bethanie,
Do you need a prescription for the Injectable B12 for Peoples Pharmacy? New legislation going into effect January 1, 2011 with Flexible Spending Accounts. Certain over the counter items will require a prescription to be considered an eligible FSA expense. How nice of our government, I can see that maybe this will help with Meth labs & such but just cause us thyroid sufferers more headache… LOL
Some of the items that will need a RX are Acid controllers, allergy & sinus, Antibiotic, Antidiarrheals, Anti-Gas, Cold Sore Remedies, Deminine Anti-Fungal, hemorrhoid Preps, Laxatives, Sleep Aids & Stomach Remedies.
Many Thanks Bethanie,
Yes, I have been writing down what all test I need done in Oct and I will be telling my Dr. even if I have to pay for them myself, I want ALL of this tested. Yes, she (the one I use to get my labs done but not my IM Dr. that gave me Cytomel) she said that insurance only likes to pay for ferritin or Vit. D once a year. Well again, I don’t care, and I plan on telling her that. Ugh how frustrating that doctors won’t listen. Yes, I have been seeing posts about taking Nature Throid to crush it & take it sublingual with honey. Thanks for the interesting facts about Vit C & B12. I may ask my IM Dr. about the B12 injections. What is DHEAS? I will definitely stay in touch because everyone on here has been a tremendous help! US thyroid sufferers must stick together!
I am currently taking zyrtec, birth control, acidophilus, Vit C (but not in the last few weeks, why I don’t know because I have always taken Vit C.), Omeprazole (Prilosec which I have stopped taking in the last several weeks because it seems that I don’t need it. I had never really had heartburn until late last fall), Simethicone(gas-x), Vit D (I will get the liquid that you suggested once I run out of my tablets), & Centrum multivitamin. Before taking Cytomel, I stopped taking some of these because I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me. Do you recommend a certain Selenium?
Belinda, thanks for suggesting to have my Dr. write me 2 prescriptions. I had seen that posted recently & it makes total sense and a way to save some $$$.
Bethanie, when you get a chance, I can’t wait to see the name of that book you suggested to Tina S.
As always, thanks to everyone for their help & support!
Hi Tina S, You’re fabulous for posting your labs with ranges! Thank you so much for that, it makes it so much easier to see and give you feedback on. Quick note, I’m at work so I only have a quick moment, so I’ll be back on later today with a more complete explanation.
But here’s the short scoop. Your TSH is low, because that’s what happens when someone is on natural thyroid medication. Endos, unfortunately are the worst at intepreting thyroid lab ranges. There’s a link to a book I’ll send you later today that you may want to read or see if they have it in your library. It’s written by an MD and explains some of the reasons why most doctors don’t really understand how to treat thyroid patients.
The next thing real briefly, is that your endo did not order the right tests. Your Free T4 is too low, which means you’re not getting enough thyroid hormone, but because your doc didn’t order a Free T3, we can’t know how much active hormone is actually getting into your system.
And with your symptoms etc, I would’ve certainly ordered a ReverseT3, which, if elevated could also explain some things because it would mean that the thyroid hormone is not actually getting into your cells.
I’ll list the labs that are the most accurate and useful.
Will write more later
Best,
Bethanie
I’m also on Armour Thyroid like Tina S. Hi Tina. I don’t know enough about labwork yet to help you, but I think I’m still hypothyroid even after increasing my Armour dose. What’s happening to me now is that in addition to gaining weight, my hair just continues to fall out. Does anyone know if there are supplements or things I can do to help stop this? It’s getting ridiculous to see my hair brush every morning.
Hello Again Everyone,
Well, I got the bloodwork done, or at least most of it – the lab neglected to run the CBC-but I got some interesting results: basically, everything is normal except my TSH, which is still way off. I will include the reference ranges in parentheses:
Free T4 0.97 (0.76-1.46 ng/dL)
TSH 0.053 (0.358-3.740 uIU/mL)
T4 (Thyroxine) 7.9 (4.7-13.3 ug/dL)
T3 Uptake 33 (31-39%)
FTI 2.6 (1.4-4.5 Index)
Total T3 1.21 (0.7-1.9 ng/mL)
Ferritin 49 (8-252 ng/mL)
All my other labs were perfect, except for CRP, which was as usual elevated (I have seasonal allergies and fibromyalgia), so I am stumped as to why my TSH is so low, when everything else is perfect, or near-perfect, although the T3 Uptake and Ferritin are on the low end of the scale. The endo, whom I saw today, suggested that I forget trying to titrate 75mg of Armour, and just take 90mg every other day. He reckons that it should bring my TSH up to better levels. But, I’m already putting weight back on having gone from 90mg to 75mg, and don’t want to put any more on. If anyone can offer suggestions as to what might be going on, I would be most grateful.
Best wishes to all of you, my fellow sufferers!
Thyroid Medication Tip: What To Ask Your Doctor
Karen, I’ve had RAI also–and am now hypothyroid. What Fun Right? It was a really hard transition. I mean, I went from being underweight and being able to eat anything — to having to eat like a mouse and still gaining weight. My friends used to say I had more energy than all of them put together, now it’s hard to make it to the gym for a light workout. Don’t get me wrong, I never ate junk or anything, and take care of myself in terms of my health. But the huge change from going hyper to hypo has been tough.
I’ve been through the ringer with thyroid meds too. The last time I went in to my doctor I simply asked him to write (2) two separate thyroid prescriptions. I explained that there are still shortages and some are having to order from Canada etc. So because I’ve had to chance meds so much, I just asked him to write me a prescription for the Canadian thyroid and the Naturethroid one. And he said it was no problem. I’m starting next week once my Naturethroid comes in the mail. I had to order mine from AZ, and I may go ahead and order some from Canada and then just see which one works best. Or, if I decide to try the Naturethroid first, at least I’ll have the other prescription that I can use for the Canadian thyroid if the Nature one doesn’t work for me.
This will save me $$$ and another doctor’s visit by doing it this way because instead of trying one, then making another doctor appointment, getting a 2nd prescription to try a different thyroid med, I’ll have both prescriptions from one doctor’s visit. Wanted to share that with all of you wonderful people here.
Hi Karen, I wish more doctors would learn about why the TSH is not so useful when dosing…. But I am glad that the doctor has you staying on the Cytomel because at least that way you’re getting some T3 and not just the T4 in the synthetic.
Good to know that you’ll be getting your antibodies checked next time!
And if you keep feeling more fatigued etc, and try the NatureThroid, please stay in touch and let me know how it works for you. I know you’ve probably seen it mentioned, but just in case you missed it, if you try the NatureThroid then most people are having good results with it if they crush it and put a few drops of honey on it.
Also, I know we’ve talked about this before, but I really, really worry about thyroid patients who haven’t had their ferritin tested. This can be a huge issue in terms of fatigue. I recall your first doc saying something silly about it being tested with your regular CBC or something, but that’s not true, what everyone really needs is a full iron panel, ALONG with the ferritin tested. Probably in the last week or so I’ve reviewed probably close to 100 labs from hypothyroid patients, and almost all of them had low ferritin! And having this low affects everything about how your thyroid medicine works, to your energy etc. So if there’s some way that you can convince them to order that for you, please do so as it could really help determine if that’s affecting what’s happening with you.
Also, when you get a chance could you please let me know if you are taking any other supplements, vitamins, minerals etc other than the Vitamin D? Some say the selenium can help with the Antibodies, and a good quality Vitamin C, I like the Vitamin C plain crystals that you mix in water or juice can also help with your immune system and sometimes even energy. I’m a really big fan of Vitamin B12 and folic acid also, however it is difficult to get enough B12 from a supplement because the B vitamins aren’t absorbed well in the stomach. Peoples Pharmacy in Austin will compound a mixture of B12, Folic Acid and P5P and ship it out anywhere in the country as an injectable formula for once weekly injections. Many thyroid patients are having their physicians show them how to have a husband, spouse or friend learn how to give the shots and then get them once a week. It has shown really good results for a lot of people, can reduce inflammation, help with memory, energy, and the immune system as well. Definitely 2nd best, but also something some have had good results with is to use a sublingual B12 or B12 combo.Sublingual is better than just swallowing a b-12 supplement, but not near as effective as the injections.
Coenzyme Q10 can also help in some instances with energy, and DHEAS if yours was tested and found to be low.
In October when you ask for the other testing, maybe you could have them test you for the DHEAS.
Stay in touch and if the fatigue gets worse at all, don’t just feel like you have to wait, I would address it with your doctor and see if you can’t get your medication changed up and/or add something else to your regimen so that you’ll be supported.
Thanks for your note. It’s always great to hear from you:-)
Bethanie
Hey Bethanie,
I will be having my labs done again around the middle of Oct. so I will have them re-do my antibodies. I didn’t have ranges for all of them. I am still on the Cytomel. I feel pretty good but about 2 weeks ago my fatigue started back during the middle of my workouts so I decided to take 1/2 in the morning & 1/2 6 hours later but so far, I have not noticed a difference. Granted I have only worked out about 3 days & have been taking 1/2 for about a week. Plus I have noticed the last 2 days that my legs where they connect to my pelvis seem sore/achy for no reason. If I keep feeling these symptoms, I am probably going to see about getting the Nature Throid prescribed. I am disappointed a little to know that my IM Dr. that put me on Cytomel only looks at TSH but at least he is willing to work with me so keep your fingers crossed that is the case.
Many Thanks for all your knowledge!
What can cause adrenal fatigue and is this related to having a High Reverse T3? My latest labs showed a high Reverse T3, and my Nurse Practitioner said this is related to the thyroid medicine not being able to get into the cells?
Luci, I know this is a bit late but I wanted to chime in about your “shakiness” question and share some additional info that may be useful to you.
I had quite a bit of nausea and feeling shaky in the mornings no matter what I did and found out that my adrenals were stressed. Apparently, this is also related to low blood sugar. If the cortisol is low, then what happens is that the liver isn’t able to convert the fat in your system to glucose, so the cortisol is out of whack especially after meals. It is especially apparent about 20 minutes after eating, and can be exacerbated by the thyroid medication.
I had to go on something called Isocort which you can get without a prescription and this helped me stablize my cortisol levels.
I also added chromium which helped with my blood sugar, and then made sure to have smaller meals and a good protein item with every meal, which also kept my sugar from going up and down so much.
Lost Weight with Armour even with Hashimotos
Hi Cindi, I wanted to share my story with you. For the past 15 years I’ve been on Synthroid and had 35 pounds to lose that no matter what I did wouldn’t budge. Even though my labs said I was “good” according to my old doctor, I just couldn’t get back my “get up and go”. Well, changed docs, and was switched to the Armour Thyroid. I guess this is the new one, I never tried the old one so don’t have anything to compare it to. Within a week, I had more energy than I can remember.
I lost almost 20 pounds in close to 6 weeks on the Armour. And then the rest of the weight came off just with regular eating. I am thrilled. I know here are some people who say that the Armour doesn’t work for them, but it sure was a godsend for me.
Hashimotos and Gaining Weight
Anyone else struggle with weight gain now with Hashimotos, even if you eat sensibly and exercise. I can’t seem to find anything that will work since the Armour change either, and I’ve gained 10 pounds. I was wondering if anyone with Hashis has had success with the new Naturethroid, or if it would be better to try the compounded. My doc wants to increase my dose from 2.5 grains to 3 grains and also has me taking Vitamin D, Selenium and Iron because my ferritin is too low. I’m also going to have my adrenals tested because all of the weight gain seems to be in the stomach area. Ugggh…help!
Boni, Oh, I can sooooo relate to wanting the old Armour back. I used to run 1/2 marathons and now 3 miles seems like an eternity. It is an awful feeling to watch my body deteriorate so. I’ve Tried the NatureThroid, and the new Armour and neither worked very well at all for me. My weight was always so stable on the old Armour, and like you, I exercised a lot. My eating is clean, no sugar, and my calories are appropriate. Not too high nor too low.
Just curious Boni, have you tried the Canadian Thyroid at all? I’m thinking of trying that or trying compounded.
I hope the compounded works for you, and would really appreciate hearing how you do with it.
Hugs,
Nina
I have been tried all the alternatives to the Old Armour nothing has worked for me. Apparently I have allergies to the fillers and Armour was the only one my body could tolerate. I am now on Synthroid and Cytomel. I have gained 30 lbs and believe me I am active. I raced bicycles and trained hours a day, now I can barely get on my trainer. I have no energy, my muscles have truned to mush and my life is at a standstill. I just got a new compund formula but have not tried it yet. I am so tired of trying this one, that one. Why can’t Forest Lab just go back and formulate Armour like it was years before there sales must be down with everyone changing.
Hey Forest do you hear or read all the complaints…get on the ball and give us back our lives!!
Vitamin D and Thyroid Disease Question: Hi, I’m wondering how many of you with some kind of thyroid disease also have low Vitamin D levels? Did your doctor test you automatically for the Vitamin D or did you all have to ask for it?
If you were tested for low Vitamin D did you get the correct Vitamin D test done?
Which supposedly is the Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy?
If you started supplementing Vitamin D and then were retested how quickly did your levels increase? If you supplemented Vitamin D did you notice that you felt better and if so, how fast did that happen?
Thanks in adance for taking the time to read my questions. I think I probably had low Vitamin D for years and because I have Hashimotos, which is auto-immune in nature, I’d like to compare notes with some of you all to see if I can learn some things.
I had RAI years ago for Graves Disease. Then went hypo of course, and have Hashimotos to deal with. For a long time I was on the old Armour, almost 15 years, until they reformulated. Of course, like so many of you, this messed me up horribly. I’ve tried Naturethroid, then Synthroid, and then went back to the New Armour. When I crushed the tablets and added some honey it seemed to help for a few months, then stopped working again.
After all this frustration, I finally switched to compounded natural thyroid and my pharmacy uses
Acidophilus as a filler. I think that the fillers and the cellulose in some of these meds is what causes so many thyroid patients to have problems.
But Finally, I am felling better. Hooray, hooray. Let’s hope it stays that way. I’ll have some lab work done in the next few weeks and I’ll let y’all know how that turns out. Got to tell you that I so much appreciate all the helpful info from everyone. Especially the tip about not taking my thyroid med before my labs are drawn. Out of all this time and years, no doctor ever helped me with that tip! You all are really great!
Last Part of the References for Why You May want to Not Have RAI
(3) Werner and Ingbar’s The Thyroid A Fundamental and Clinical Text,
Eighth Edition, page 703: “Hypothyroidism may be considered an
inevitable consequence of RAI therapy, rather than a side effect” This
section goes on to state that Hypothyroidism may develop in as many as
90% of patients within the first year after therapy (Ref 243 Cunnien AJ,
Hay ID, Gorman CA et al. Radioiodine induced hypothyroidism in Graves’
disease: factors associated with the increasing incidence. J Nucl Med
1982; 23:978), with a continuing rate of 2% to 3% per year thereafter.
Graves Disease, Pathogenesis and Treatment, edited by Basil Rappoport
and Sandra M. McLachlan, published by Kluwer Academic Publishers. ISBN
0-7923-7790- 7. Chapter 11, RAI Therapy of GD, Complications and Risks of
RAI, pg. 164, “Eventual hypothyroidism is an expected consequence of
131I treatment for many patients with Graves’ disease and can occur
within a few weeks, months, or years after treatment. Since permenant
hypothyroidism eventually occurrs in 5-20% of patients with ATDs, 131 I
appears to exaggerate the natural history of GD”.”(REF Cooper DS. 1998
Antithyroid drugs for treatment of hyperthyroidism. Endocrinal Metab
Clin North Amer. 27: 225-248).
(4) Werner and Ingbar’s The Thyroid A Fundamental and Clinical Text,
Eighth Edition, page 703: “One report from the Co-operative
Thyrotoxicosis follow up study, with a mean length of 21 years, did find
an excess risk of death from thyroid carcinoma in patients receiving RAI
for hyperthyroidism due to toxic multinodular goiter (262 Ron E, Doody
MM, Becker DV, et al. Cancer mortality following treatment for adult
hyperthyroidism. JAMA 1998: 280; 347)., Page 704, Exposure of the rest
of the body to RAI 131-I: “The whole body is exposed to radiation after
RAI therapy with gonadal radiation of particular concern because of
gamma irradiation from RAI in urinary bladder”
Important Reasons Why You May Not Want to Have RAI Part III
20. I131 is so dangerous it’s transported in a lead container and kept
at the hospital only for the briefest time before being dispensed by a
doctor shielded in lead from head to toe.
21. When cats are given I-131, they must be kept in a contained facility
for up to 6 weeks until they no longer set off warnings on a geiger
counter, yet people, especially in the U.S.A. are released with in
minutes of treatment on an unsuspecting population. Germany keeps I-131
patients for several days in a contained radiation facility until their
radioactive numbers are in a *safe* level. Is there REALLY anything
*safe* about ingesting I-131? (9)
22. Salivary and tear duct damage from I-131 (10)
References:
(1) Radioiodine Therapy of Graves Disease; Milton D. Gross, John E.
Freitas, James C. Sisson and B. Shapiro, Chapter 11, Page 160 “Despite a
clinical experience now amounting to many hundreds of thousands of
patients treated with 131 I for GD, there is still no unanimity as to
the selection of the appropriate dose of 131 I.”
(2) Graves Disease, Pathogenesis and Treatment, edited by Basil
Rappoport and Sandra M. McLachlan, published by Kluwer Academic
Publishers. ISBN 0-7923-7790- 7. Chapter 11, RAI Therapy of GD,
Complications and Risks of RAI, pg. 162 (Acute radiation thyroiditis;
Exacerbations of thyrotoxicosis (transient)) ; pg. 164 (thyroid storm)
Important Reasons Why You May Not Want to Have RAI Part II
Hi everyone, looks like I have to break this up in 3 parts because it still won’t fit. Anyway, read part I above if you’re interested. This doesn’t mean that RAI isn’t a good choice for some, I just think we should be aware of these things that were shared by other RAI patients. My endo pushed me to have RAI and I was not informed about other opinions.
12. RAI can cause difficulty with future attempts to become pregnant and
carry pregnancies to term. RAI is known to affect the ovaries, which is
why patients are recommended to avoid becoming pregnancy for at least 6
months after RAI. The 6 months recommendation was increased to at least
one year in early 2002
13. Chance of thyroid eye disease developing increases dramatically, as
RAI doesn’t stop antibody production (6)
14. Chance of significant, unhealthy weight gain is increased Studies
show that weight gain is inevitable after radioiodine- induced
hypothyroidism (7)
15. Replacement hormone products currently on the market, both synthetic
and glandular, are not comparable to our own hormone, and in some
people, never feel “right”.
16. Ongoing problems as the gland gradually dies, necessitating close
medical surveillance and replacement hormone dosage adjustments which
usually does not happen unless a patient is educated and proactive in
their disease and treatment. Within one year after RAI, most patients
are on a dose of replacement hormone equivalent to 0.1mg levothyroxine;
5-6 years post RAI, most patients are on 0.175 mg levothyroxine because
of the progression to autoimmune thyroid failure.
17. Increased risk of developing fibromyalgia like symptoms
18. For most GD patients, medication with ATD’s creates a euthyroid
state similar to “normal life”, and can lead to long-term remission as
well. (8)
19. As modern science explores the human genome, a cure for GD could be
found, but after RAI kills the thyroid, it wouldn’t work. Current
research is directed at modulating the cytokines, immune system
chemicals released during the immune response and necessary for
auto antibody production. Treatments of this nature are already being
used successfully in Crohn’s disease.
Hi Karen,
I’m glad they did the antibody testing prior to the RAI. If it were me, I would still want to do a comparison now if you haven’t had antibody testing since then to see what they are. Although antibodies usually never go away completely, they can be kept at bay by keeping the TSH very suppressed, like they do in thyroid cancer patients. Knowing how yours are at this point would be helpful info, IMO, especially since you had positive TPO Antibodies (otherwise known as Anti thyroid Peroxab) and a high TSI. I didn’t catch a range on your labs, but generally the TPO antibodies should be less than 35.
Also, there’s no need to get the antibody tests right away, if it were me I would ask for them to be done on my next blood draw along with the complete iron panel and ferritin and make sure that they do your FREE T3, Free T4, and TSH this time.
How are you feeling these days? Did your older FP doc who told you to stay on the Cytomel is he keeping you on the same dose where you felt your best?
Seeing your antibody levels, I think it makes even more sense why you feel best to have you TSH suppressed. This probably is keeping your antibody levels at bay which makes you feel better–but of course, I’m just a thyroid patient, not a doc:-)
Thanks for your response Bethanie regarding Antibody testing & Thyroid!
Here are my labs before I took the RAI back in 2005 :
TrIIodothyronine Total: 291 (80-200)
Anti Thyroglobulin: 10.2
Anti Thyroid Peroxab: 200.0
TSH: <0.014 (0.300-5.00)
F T4: 2.13 (0.50-1.20)
TSI-QL: 104
Important Reasons you May Not Want to Have RAI: Part I
Hi fellow thyroid friends! (I’m posting this in 2 parts because it won’t all fit on one post)
I came across these IMPORTANT REASONS WHY YOU MAY WANT TO AVOID RAI when I did my research for my own Graves Disease. Apparently, these are “opinions” not all are facts, but were compiled supposedly by other patients who had RAI. Some of the comments below are not scientifically based….but if it gives you food for thought it may be helpful even if it gives you a chance to consider other non RAI options as well as RAI in your own case. As always, do your own due diligence, but I thought it may be useful to some of you if I posted them here, especially, since there seems to be some questions about RAI, and many endos it seems recommend RAI as a “cure all” without telling us about drawbacks to the treatment.
Important Reasons You May Want to Avoid RAI
1. It’s permanent; once you swallow this there is no changing your mind
and starting over.
2. Since the science is inexact and dosage a guess at best, it may take
years to be fully effective, or it may have to be repeated (1)
3. Can bring on (induce or cause) thyroid storm as the dying gland
“dumps” (releases) excess thyroid hormone and thyroid antibodies into
the body; RAI also stimulates immune cells within the thyroid gland to
produce more thyroid antibodies. (2)
4. Graves disease is an auto-immune disease, not a disease of the
thyroid, so killing the thyroid doesn’t stop the disease process;
without adequate thyroid tissue, the antibodies that cause
hyperthyroidism may go on to affect orbital or dermal tissue, causing
Graves’ ophthalmopathy and pretibial myxedema.
5. Results in hypothyroidism.
Whoever said hypothyroidism is easy to treat, was mistaken. Because of
the effects of thyroid antibodies, radiation-induced hypothyroidism is
more difficult to treat than naturally occurring hypothyroidism.
Hypothyroidism caused by treatment for hyperthyroidism is known to cause
depression and anxiety. In one large Dutch study, “over one third of
patients with a full-time job were unable to resume the same work after
treatment. It appears that many of these patients are in need of
psychological support (3)
6. Being hypothyroid is neither less debilitating nor less dangerous
than hyperthyroid. With hypothyroidism one is at risk of myxedema coma
which can be more deadly than thyroid storm. This results from improper
monitoring and labs tests, keeping us in a hypo state. After
radiation-induced hypothyroidism develops, it takes only 6 weeks without
thyroid replacement hormone for patients to fall into myxedema coma.
7. Increased antibody titers after RAI skew lab test results, adding to
treatment difficulties. In particular, the widely-used TSH test is
influenced by TSH receptor antibodies, causing falsely decreased levels.
8. RAI, aka spent nuclear fuel (“nuclear waste”, in other words) is
absorbed by other organs and can cause cell death or DNA mutations. RAI
is absorbed, in smaller amounts, by other organs besides the thyroid,
including breast tissue, the genitals, pancreas, and the gastric mucosa.
9. For up to 4-8 weeks after dosage, we’re exposing those around us to
radioiodine. This is demonstrated by patients registering measurable
radioidine in airport and other screening devices.
10. Studies show an increase in cancers, especially of the thyroid gland
and small bowel, after RAI. (4)
11. Possibility of damaging the parathyroid, causing hypoparathyroidism.
(5)
RAI should never be “pushed” on a patient. Lindsey, I think you should think long and hard before just following your endo’s recommendation that you have RAI. There are many patients who have continuing problems even after the RAI and the antibodies that are present with RAI, don’t “go away” with RAI, sometimes they go onto attack other tissues. Medications can help the antibodies not be so active. Some patients who’ve had RAI, have gone onto get thyroid eye disease from the antibodies so i’ts important to get the medications and doseages correct.
I think some endos push RAI as a “cure” for graves, and this is not the case. All the RAI does is destroy the thyroid gland, it does not kill the antibodies that cause Graves and can potentially exacerbate thyroid eye disease.
Re: Shakiness in Morning After Taking Thyroid Medication: Hi Luci, Welcome to our Thyroid Group. We’re glad you’re here and thanks for your question.
First of all, you should be taking your thyroid medication in the morning, on an empty stomach, at least 1 hour before or 2 hours after food. With certain brands like Armour Thyroid, or some of the other Natural Dessicated Thyroid Medication like Naturethroid or Erfa Thyroid from Canada many patients have better results if they take it sublingually, letting it dissolve under the tongue or between the side cheek of the mouth and adding a small drop of honey to the crushed tablets.
Thyroid medication should not be taken within 4 hours of iron or calcium either. You could take your calcium at night and your thyroid in the morning and see how that works for you.
With regards to feeling jittery, here are some thoughts.
1. What are your lab results? Specifically your Free T3, Free T4, and TSH?
If you’ve also had your Reverse T3 checked this would also be good to know because sometimes if your Reverse T3 is high this can mean that you’re having thyroid hormone build up outside the cells and not be accessible to your body.
2. Have you had a complete Iron Panel Run including your Ferritin?
Sometimes I see patients whose ferritin is too low, (below 60 or so) who are unable to raise their thyroid hormone medication up to an appropriate level because of the low ferritin.
3. Another reason for feeling jittery in the morning can be low blood sugar. Many patients who are hypothyroid also struggle with hypoglycemia or low blood sugar. Because we’re fasting all night, morning can be a time which can predispose us to am. jitters, especially if we don’t get an adequate amount of protein in the morning.
Things that can help. 6 small meals instead of 3 larger meals throughout the day. Having a small protein snack before bedtime, and then making sure that your morning meal has not only carbs, but a good quality protein source which can help reduce jitters and stave off hypoglycemia.
Diabetes or pre-diabetic patients may also have issues with blood sugar, so having a blood glucose checked can also be helpful.
Let me know if you have some labs to post and if so please post them along with your lab ranges so that you can get some additional feedback on them. Again, thanks for joining us and have a great evening.
PS…I tried taking it at night in case the shakiness in the morning was because I was out of thyroid in my body.
I have been taking Armour 60mg for over a year long with BiEst estrogen replacement. Took DHEA for some time as well all of it because I had no energy, hair falling out, couldn’t sleep…etc. All of these improved dramatically. I stopped the DHEA 3 months ago with no noticeable consequence.
I have a weird internal shakiness that improved for a while with the estrogen. However, it is back and stronger, worse when I get up in the morning or after a nap. It is like I have had coffee or a bunch of candy and the occasional twitch or head and hand tremour. Jittery feeling. A month ago I switched to my phamacist’s version of Armour and started taking it at night so I could take my calcium in the morning (otherwise I forget).
I am going back on the Canadian Armour (it is very inexpensive by the way) and wondering if I might be over medicated. My OB/Gyn is not an expert on thyroid so I don’t trust the latest readings to accurately assess my issues.
Any thoughts on this. Is this a side effect sometimes? Does i matter if you take it at night or in the morning? Should I cut the pills down from 60 to 30 for a while?
Thanks for your response, Luci
Hi Robin, Thyroid labs should always be drawn after fasting and in the morning, because then the results that you get are more accurate.
And you’re correct, doctors generally never tell us pay attention to the time of day we are getting our throid labs tested. However, there’s been research done back in 2004 by Scobbo et. al. in 2004 which found that TSH tests declined in late in the day testing in 97 out of 100 people in the study as compared to those who had early morning, fasting thyroid testing results. The decline in TSH labs was by an average of 26.39%, which is fairly significant. Furthermore, study patients, about 6%, were found to be re-classified from a previous diagnosis of subclinical hypothyroidism to “normal”.
Since it’s hard enough for us to be accurately diagnosed, and especially if we have symptoms of hypothyroidism, it’s best to take our thyroid lab tests fasting, and in the morning.
Additionally, we should all be helping newer thyroid patients learn that one should never take their thyroid medication on the morning of a thyroid lab draw. I always bring my thyroid meds with me, along with some water, and take them immediately after, not before, the blood work is drawn. If you take your thyroid meds before the blood draw then your results may be skewed and show labs that are reflective of the medicine that was currently taken, not what your body would normally have in your system after a few hours.
Does that help explain why the time of day does matter with regards to thyroid testing?
Thank you for the info on what time of day to get my thyroid labs drawn Kacey. My doctor never mentioned having to fast for a thyroid blood test, nor did he tell me that I should have them drawn in the morning. I’m very glad I found this site. It is a great resource for thyroid patients and I’m grateful for your help.
Just so I understand, could you let me know if there is a specific reason that one should be fasting before doing the thyroid labs, and also, why it is important to have them done in the morning? Thanks again.
My endo is recommending RAI for my thyroid and he’s really pushing it as a 1st choice option. I’m not so sure I want to go through with it. Has anyone else had surgery instead of RAI for Graves disease and do you think that surgery is a better option?
Antibody Testing and Thyroid: Hi Karen, yes, you still need to test your antibodies to see if you have them. You can actually have antibodies without a thyroid and if they are high you need to know this.
Ideally, your physicians should have done run the thyroid antibody tests before you had RAI to see what your levels were, but if these were never run, then yes, it would absolutely be my suggestion that you have them run now and see what they are. Sorry for the delay in responding. My Internet access has been flaky- had to have the company come out and I think they finally fixed it!
Thyroid Labs should always be drawn first thing in the morning after a 12 hour fast. You should have water only in the morning, no supplements or thyroid medications should be taken prior to your lab draw. Unless of course you are taking something like insulin or some other medication that could be life threatening if you miss a dose.
But it’s important to schedule a morning lab draw for your thyroid lab work, and make sure you’ve been fasting for at 12 hours prior to having the thyroid labwork.
Thanks for the very good question Robin!
Thank you Taylor,
I just switched back to Synthroid 2 1/2 weeks ago so I have not had any labs done yet. I am sure my t4 will be off again and the tsh I was going to take Cytomel for the t3 but their label does read it can cause stomach
problems. Right now I am nervous to take anything while the stomach is healing. Also, the gastrologist informed me that even thought I stopped taking the meds they are still in my system . This is a nightmare that just keeps going on. Yes, I am on a special diet . Alot of chicken, and I have to keep food in the stomach , which means eating every 2 hours. I hope no one else with a delicate stomach
has to go thru this. If one starts with indegestion they never had before, please listen to your body giving you warning signs.
When is the best time of day to get your thyroid labs drawn? My name is Robin and I am trying to learn about the best way to deal with a low thyroid – hypothyroid is my diagnosis. My co-worker told me about this site so I just joined. I apologize if this has been answered somewhere before, but there’s so much information here that I haven’t had time to read it all.
Is there a particular time of day that’s best for me to get my lab results drawn? I did read that I was not supposed to take my medicine before I get my labs drawn, but does the time of day matter? Thank you all for your great contributions.
Tamala, My mom and sister both have hypothyroid, and my doctor just did my labs this week and says I have it also along with the Hashimotos. I’ve always had trouble with my digestion and get bloating after eating breads and things like that.
Could you please let me know how you get tested for Celiac Disease? Also do you have a specific brand of vitamins that you use that doesn’t have all kinds of fillers? I’m very sensitive it seems to even supplements, and I hate to waste money on something that I just have to throw away.
Thanks for your help.
Hello all!
I have a question about some labs & wanted your opinion. One of the doctors that I have seen is telling me that I do not need to have the following labs done because I took the RAI pill to kill my thyroid:
TPO (Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies
TPOAb (Antithyroid Peroxidase Antibodies)
Tg (thyroglobulin/Tg)
Thank you,
Karen
Ellen and Cherryl, I’m a celiac patient who also has Hashimotos. Both celiac and the Hashimotos are in my family. Geez, I know–2 problems that can be difficult to live with. I wasn’t tested for celiac until about 5 years following my hypothyroid diagnosis, and always felt really bloated and tired, and no matter what thyroid medicine I took, didn’t quite feel like myself. Since I’ve cut out all the wheat products and gone gluten free it has made a big difference for me. I was on the Synthroid and then had all kinds of bad side effects and now I’m taking the NatureThroid.
I do take it sublingually as suggested on this site because this way the stomach and liver do not have to process it, and it is absorbed directly through the mucous membranes of the mouth. For those of you who have gastro things going on, then I really would suggest the sublingual route of taking your thyroid meds.
I’m also very careful about any type of tablets that I take. Think we have to worry about fillers in our thyroid tabs? Oh, my goodness, you wouldn’t believe how long it took me just to find a vitamin C in one of the health stores in my city. They put all kinds of “junk” in everything it seems. I just wanted plain jane Vitamin C, and then I mix the vitamin C powder with some juice and this way it is liquid and again, easier for my stomach to tolerate.
If anyone has any questions I’d be happy to help.
Cherryl, What an awful experience to have to go through! I had bad experiences from the new Armour as well, but luckily my heart palpitations went away when I switched to the Canadian Thyroid medicine. Do you have to eat a special diet with your stomach problem now?
It’s so unfortunate the Forrest Labs changed the formulation of the Armour Thyroid. It used to be such a great product, but I’m afraid it’s hurting more patients now instead of helping them.
I’m so sorry that you were affected as well. Do you know what your labs are with the Synthroid?
I have Hashimoto’s Thyroid. My counts were geting worse, Synthroid which are t4′s no t3′s. My body does not break them down. I had been on Synthroid since 2000. I found Armour thyroid at a local
pharmacy. Switched to the drug 30mg twice a day since March 2010. I began having
indigestion problems which worsened each month, until July when severe stomach pains , weakness
weight loss, etc I was slowly poisoning my body. Had a ct scan done to be told that I have errosive gastristis from the drug(only meds I was on) and nothing had changed in my life or diet. Stopped the drug and went back to Synthroid stomach pains have subsided, but my stomach after three weeks is still raw. So very sorry that the drug had no warning labels about possible stomach problems I would not have taken it.
Cherryl
Gluten and Thyroid Problems Question: Hi fellow hypothyroid friends, I have a question regarding one’s diet and thyroid troubles. I’m wondering how many of you also have a problem with gluten, and/or have been diagnosed with Celiac as well as hypothyroidism? I was told it could possibly benefit me to go “gluten free” and was thinking I’d ask you all here for your advice. Thanks for reading.
You’re welcome Karen. Glad to help. I would probably start at the one drop a day (ask your doctor’s permission of course) and then see how your levels look and find out when your doctor is going to retest your thyroid labs and then remind them to redo your Vitamin D level testing.
It will be good to see how the liquid does for you. Sometimes if people are at the lower end of normal they notice a decrease in fatigue, and less muscle ache right away. With levels that are like yours, not terrible, but could use a little boost, then you may not notice huge changes in how you feel, but you may notice not getting sick as much, or especially in the fall/winter months when the flu comes around, if others around you are getting sick, then having optimized Vitamin D levels can help support your immune system, and I really like the convenience and absorbability of the liquids. I have one of those stomachs where if I’m taking supplements, they feel like rocks in my stomach. Guess that’s why I like doing my thyroid medicine sublingually too:-)
Can’t complain at all so far about my day:-) It’s a bit warm, but guess that’s to be expected this time of year. Enjoy the rest of yours and stay in touch! Thanks Karen.
Bethanie
Thanks Bethanie! I think you told me before that my range was ok but could be better. My 25-Hydroxy D3 was 51and 25-Hydroxy D total was 51 which the range for that one I think is25-80 ng/mL (optimum level). This test was taken in Jan. and I have taken a tablet Vit D off & on but wasn’t consistent until I read about it on this site.
Thanks for the info. & I will probably order in the next day or so & let you know what I think!
My day is going pretty good so far & I hope yours is too!
Hello Karen, Be glad to share the Vitamin D3 product that I use. It’s from Biotics Research and I really love it. One of my holistic physicians suggested it and it works sooooo much better I think than the tablets. Here’s the direct link:
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/vitamind3
I think this website shortens the link for you so you don’t have these huge links, but it will take you directly to the one that I order from Amazon.
Make sure you get this one and not one of their other formulations because this one contains 2000 iu of VItamind D3 in only one drop. Now, you have to be careful with Vitamin D not to take too much, because it is fat soluable and stored in the tissues of the body, so getting too much is not a good idea, but if you’re really low like some people, some of the holistic docs have suggested taking 3-4 drops a day for about 10-14 days, then dropping down to either 1-2 drops per day, and then having the Vitamin D3 tested during your next thyroid blood draw. It takes a while of consistent vitamin d useage to get the levels up where you want them and I just think it is one of the easiest and best things we can do for our health is to make sure that our levels are optimized. But everyone should check with their own physician for doseage and correlate the amount that is taken with your own labs.
+
This liquid Vitamin D3 that I take: http://www.hospitalsoup.com/vitamind3
Can be placed under the tongue for sublingual absorption, and it’s easy to take along if you’re traveling and lasts a long time so it’s a really good value.
Let me know if you get it how it does for you! Hope you’re day is going great.
Hi Bethanie!
Would you be so kind to tell me what brand of D3 you are taking besides that it is a liquid and where you buy yours at? I am currently taking a tablet but would like to switch since reading your post.
Thanks,
Karen
Hi Missy, Thyroid storms can be quite dangerous. It means you get too much thyroid hormone and are what’s called hyperthyroid.
Hashimotos attacks occur when your thyroid gland is being attacked. This is triggered by the antibodies that are found in blood testing. TPO (Thyroid Perioxidase Antibodies) and/or TG (Thyroglobulin antibodies) show up in the blood work of a Hashimotos patient and in the process can cause your thyroid gland to go either hypothyroid or hyperthyroid. Many patients who have antibodies can ward off the attacks by taking an adequate amount of thyroid hormone, preferably the natural dessicated thyroid hormone. Having an adequate amount of thyroid hormone in the body can supress your body’s own thyroid gland, which would cause the thyroid gland to not be attacked.
Hashimotos Storm Question for the group? Hi fellow thyroid patients, I was wondering if someone could help me understand what a thyroid storm is like? Also what is a Hashi’s attack? I just got a diagnosis of Hashimotos and my cousin who also has it was telling me about “attacks” and Thyroid Storms that can occur with Hashimotos but I’m afraid I don’t understand this very well. Thank you for reading and for the help.
Karen, you are certainly welcome. And your sharing the info about NatureThroid is very, very much appreciated!!! I know what you mean about the drug manufacturers. I really think sometimes that they do things just for profit instead of considering what the effect will be on patients. Sigh….we have to deal with a lot don’t we?
And I’m very thankful you’re here. What makes this site so great is that folks like yourself are here and we all help each other:-) Heaven knows we need someone on the side of the patient…you know what I mean?
Enjoy your evening Karen, and thanks for your valuable contributions.
Lynn you are welcome!! I just thought I would email them & see what they had to say & I thought some of you might need the info. I am not taking it yet. I am on Synthroid & Cytomel (started Cytomel at the end of May & it’s working pretty good). I will stick with this for now, I just was wondering if I switched how hard was it going to be for me to get. I am glad I posted it & it helped!
Thanks Carmen for the info on reformulating Nature Throid! Why are these drug manufacturers making it so difficult for us thyroid people? Don’t we have enough health problems to deal with without having our Meds jacked with?
I love this site & the people who post their info & knowledge! It’s has been great for me!
Re: Your Help with Availability of NatureThroid
Karen, thanks very much for posting this info about RLC Labs and NatureThroid. I used to be able to get mine at Walgreens but they’ve been out of stock for the past few weeks and I wasn’t sure what I was going to do. Having this information appear here on this site today was a lifesaver for me. And I mean it. I have no thyroid gland as mine was removed several years ago due to cancer. So thinking that I was not going to be able to get my thyroid medicine had me in a panic!
Thanks again Karen—really appreciate your help.
Hey Karen,
Yes, NatureThroid reformulated also, but instead of increasing the cellulose they actually changed the type of cellulose.
The OLD NatureThroid had Hydropropropyl Methylcellulose, and the NEW NatureThroid has the smaller size cellulose strudture called Microcrystaline Cellulose, supposedly less binding of the thyroid hormone.
Here’s the fillers in NatureThroid:
Carnaba Wax, Colloidal Silicon Dioxide, Dicalcium Phosphate, Hypromellose, Lactose Monohydrate, Magnesium Stearate, Microcrystaline Cellulose, Polyethylene Glycol (PEG)-400, Sodium Starch Glycolate, Stearic Acid
It’d be nice if they took out ALL cellulose. But crushing it and adding the honey seems to help a lot of people get around the cellulose issue.
Some are actually finding the new NatureThroid stronger than the old, and I’m not hearing near so many complaints like the reformulation of Armour.
If anyone has tried the new NatureThroid what do you all think?
Hi,
I just found this under Nature Throid vs. Armour Thyroid. Can anyone tell me if this is true that Nature Throid has reformulated?
Pamela says:
March 26, 2010 at 11:35 am
I am on Nature Throid, and guess what everyone. Nature Throid has reformulated as well. Been taking the new one for about the past 2-3 weeks, and can’t believe that some of my symptoms are yet back again.
Kay says:
March 29, 2010 at 4:04 pm
I switched to NatureThroid last fall when my pharmacy was unable to get Armour. I did fine on it until this last refill when heart palpitations began and became increasingly worse. After calling the pharmacist, I learned that NatureThroid has reformulated (as Armour has) so I knew the source of the problem. He said the federal government has forced these companies to reformulate so that the dosing is consistent. What are those of us who depend on these products to live supposed to do?
Thanks,
Karen
Hello all,
I just contacted RLC Labs about the availability of Nature Throid. This is what I was given & hope it helps someone.
Thank you for contacting RLC Labs.
At this time, RLC Labs is in full production of several strengths of Nature-Throid™ and Westhroid™; see the list below for details! Please be aware that even any new orders placed through a pharmacy can still take up to a week or longer to get to you due to the overwhelming demand, depending on availability. Rest assured we are working very hard to fill all backorders as well as new orders in an effort to make all strengths readily available again.
RLC Labs is pleased to announce the following list of availability by strength of both Nature-Throid™ and Westhroid™:
¼ Grain (16.25 mg Thyroid USP) Available!
½ Grain (32.5 mg Thyroid USP) Available!
1 Grain (65 mg Thyroid USP) Available!
2 Grain (130 mg Thyroid USP) Available!
3 Grain (195 mg Thyroid USP) Available!
1½ Grain (97.5 mg Thyroid USP) Available!
4 Grain (260 mg Thyroid USP) August 30th, 2010
5 Grain (325 mg Thyroid USP) September 15th, 2010
Once we are off backorder status for an individual strength, you should be able to obtain Nature-Throid™ and Westhroid™ from your local pharmacy. Keep in mind, every Pharmacy (excluding Indiana) is able to carry Nature-Throid™ and Westhroid™. If your pharmacist is having troubles ordering the product, have them call us at 1-877-797-7997 and we can assist them in doing so. If you need a prescription filled immediately please contact Clark’s Pharmacy at (480) 488-2007.
Again, we at RLC Labs, are doing all we can to ensure there is sufficient product for those patients who respond best to the Naturally Desiccated Thyroid protocol, and or Nature-Throid™ and Westhroid™. We thank you for your continued support.
Have a happy and healthy day!
Hello Ladies,
Thanks again for the input:-)
You are probably right about low ferretin levels, especially relating to the tinnitus, because I have a tendency towards anemia, which is not helped by the fact that I am now taking thyroid meds.Because we cannot take any iron-containing supplements for 4-5 hours after taking the medication (FYI, for those of you who didn’t know that, the same must be said of calcium), I have dropped my morning multi-vitamin, which contains iron. Guess that I will have to go back on the red wine!!!
My thought, however, was perhaps it was the Armour Thyroid causing the tinnitus, not low thyroid hormones. Interesting though.
Time for more blood work, I guess, so thanks again to all of you, and I wish everyone a wonderful weekend.
Hi Karen,
Appreciate your support as well:-) It is indeed strange that so many of our furry friends are finding themselves with thyroid issues as well. I’ve read that some people think there could be a link to the fluoride in the water and thyroid problems. Sure seems like a lot of us —human and animals are dealing with these things. In addition to the possible connection to the fluoride I sometimes wonder if we are seeing more thyroid cases because of the food supply and the antibiotics that so many animals are fed and then this coming into our food if we aren’t eating organic all the time. Sigh….sorry that you and your coworkers have the thyroid problems, but very glad that the ladies were able to help you as well.
Thanks so much keeping in touch and for your thoughtfulness. Please tell the ladies at work that I said hello!
- Bethanie
Hi Bethanie,
I am sorry to hear that your dog has thyroid issues. I work with a lady whose cat has it & she herself has thyroid issues. So she has to give her cat a pill every day as well as herself. The things we do for our animals. I know I would do it for my cat if I had to.
I think it’s so odd I have 2 ladies in my department that I work very closely with & they both have thyroid issues and one of them gave me some good advice before finding this site & all the wonderful knowledge that everyone shares.
Thanks again for you and everyone on here!
Have a wonderful weekend,
Karen
How to Save Money on Your Thyroid Prescriptions:
Hi TinaS, glad I could help with the info on not taking your thyroid medication on the morning you’re labs are drawn. And I know what you mean about the compounded being too expensive! It’s outrageous in my opinion, and also hard to increase the dose if you need to. I like the tablets and have a good pill splitter that has saved me lots of times when I needed a little more medication.
The other thing I do to save money is that I actually get a prescription for 2 grain tablets, and then split them as the 2 grains are the same price as the one grains. I was told that most medications cost per tablet, not per mg or grains in the tablet, so if you find a doc who is willing to write your prescription for the higher amount, you can save 1/2 or more on your meds depending upon how your prescription is written.
I’m just glad you’re staying in touch. It helps to know I’m not the only one who has ups/downs with the thyroid. I hope you get some more comments on the tinnitus because that sounds pretty uncomfortable. I’m also wondering if it could be related to your lower thyroid dose?
Hello TinaS,
I had pretty severe tinnitus and found out I was hypothyroid and had stressed adrenals. From what I learned there are a few things that can cause tinnitus with regards to the thyroid:
1) Low Ferritin
2) Stressed/Overworked Overtaxed Adrenals
3) Low Thyroid
Obviously, the tinnitus could also be related to something that is not thyroid related, but if your dose decreased and your tinnitus is getting worse, then sometimes it can be a combination of too little thyroid hormone and in addition stressed adrenals from your body trying to cope with too little thyroid hormone.
If you find out what helps for you, I’d love to know what you find out. My tinnitus is almost gone but I can usually tell if I need to increase my thyroid med because my tinnitus will get worse.
Hi Bethanie, Lisa and Carmen,
Thank you again for your excellent ideas:-) The endo is no longer with the practice, and I have yet to track him down. I talked with my local compounding pharmacist, and he can make me up the 75mg dose I need, but it will cost me a small fortune, about $1.50 per pill, which is out of my affordability right now. I get 30 days worth paid for by my insurance, but guess that I will have to search around and see who has 60 mg and 15 mg, then get yet another script. I’m not sure that I need to be varying doses just yet…I’m still trying to get this one right, but I might get there eventually.
Actually, I chew the tabs, as I have to cut them up anyway, to try and titrate the right dose, so crushing them isn’t an issue, and the pills melt really quickly…:-)
Carmen, I really appreciate the tip about not taking my meds the day of getting tested…that makes perfect sense, and you would think that being a healthcare professional I would have thought of that myself. Duh me!
I have a question for the group….is anyone else experiencing tinnitis (ringing in the ears), or as in my case, worsening tinnitis? I have noticed how much louder the noise has been getting, and it’s becoming a distraction.
Wishing you all a happy, and healthy, week.
Joyce, What was your lab range for Vitamin D? Without the ranges it is difficult to say exactly, but with Vitamin D your neighbor is correct to say that high/normal ranges are much better than low normals. The rule of thumb is that your Vitamin D level should be at least 70% or the high/normal range in order to have adequate levels. There are so many things that it helps your body with, and low/normal levels can absolutely contribute to low energy levels/fatigue as well as lowered immunity.
Vitamin D and thyroid question
My name is Joyce and I have a question regarding Vitamin D and low thyroid. My vitamin D was 23 and my doctor didn’t mention it; however, my neighbor who is also hypothyroid and who has Hashimotos, says that it should be higher. How do I tell where my Vitamin D could be, and could this possibly be contributing to my fatigue?
Lina, my cholesterol went up to over 200 for the very first time when I turned 49. I was also offered statin cholesterol lowering prescription medications from my doctor. I had heard about all the terrible side effects that statins can cause, and wanted to try some more natural ways of lowering the cholesterol. I also became hypothyroid and began Armour thyroid 5 months ago. My cholesterol, while not down huge amounts, has come down around 38 points. My acupuncturist told me to try fish oil and Niacin also, and I will start that this weekend.
Hormones do play an important role in regulating cholesterol.. My husband was told also by his cardiologist and his family doctor that he had no choice but to take statin drugs. So we took him to an alternative health practitioner who found out he had both low thyroid and low testosterone. About 6 weeks after getting on thyroid meds and hormone replacement for his testosterone his cholesterol is down a total of 59 points. We are going to add fish oil to his supplements as well as some Niacin to see if that will drop it even lower. I was fairly angry that none of his other doctors even suggested testing the hormones or his thyroid.
Hi Karen, Glad you rec’d the thyroid doctor list and you’re very welcome:-) Can’t believe it my dog was just diagnosed with hypothyroidism. So when I learned that low thyroid runs in families I didn’t realize that this pertained to our animal buddies as well:-)
Hope you have a great weekend Karen. And thanks for letting me know that the doctor list arrived ok:-)
Bethanie
Hi Bethanie,
Yes, I did receive the email list of doctors. Thank you so much!
Joan, high cholesterol and hypothyroidism can definitely go hand in hand. I’m not sure why more cardiologists, endocrinologists, and even family practitioners don’t routinely test patients using a complete thyroid panel and not just the TSH because in my opinion, this can save lives. Call it what you will but some docs would rather write up a prescription for a statin drug instead of identifying issues like hypothyroidism which can cause cholesterol to spiral upwards. I’m assuming from your question and your results that you started on your thyroid medication one month ago and already experienced a significant reduction in your cholesterol level? And your question is could you experience a further drop by continuing on your thyroid medication? What I’ve seen in the past is that if you are on an optimized level of your thyroid meds, meaning that your Free T3, Free T4, are both optimal, and your TSH is supressed, then yes it is possible that your body will continue to respond with reductions in cholesterol. Generally, in the labs that I’ve seen, once everything “evens out” and the thyroid is optimized then cholesterol levels will stabilize, but sometimes this stabilization is dramatic and patients who formerly would have been candidates for statin medications possibly are no longer.
I’m very hapy for you that you’ve seen such good results with your thyroid meds and your cholesterol. How are you feeling in terms of your energy etc? Welcome to the thyroid group and glad you joined us!
High Cholesterol and Hypothyroidism question: Could someone please tell me if it is normal to have cholesterol drop by over 45 points in one month after taking Natural Thyroid medicine? My cardiologist insisted that I start on statin medication but I told him that I wanted my family doctor, a DO, to test me for thyroid issues first. Found out that I was pretty low on all areas of the thyroid testing. Low T3, Low T4, High TSH, so my physician agreed to write me a prescription for the Canadian Thyroid. I started almost one month ago and got my lab work back today because I needed something else tested and asked if I could do the cholesterol test again. Couldn’t believe it but my cholesterol was down 46 points since the last blood draw. Is this normal? Do you all think that it could drop even further just by adding the thyroid med? I have a healthy diet, am a good weight and exercise. So it’s not like I have an unhealthy lifestyle or anything.
I’m so happy I found this info. Didn’t know what to do about my Hashimotos. Going to read everything tonight and I’m sure I’ll have some questions for you all. Thank you very much for all the helpful material.
Hi Karen, Just wanted to check in and make sure that you rec’d the list of doctors in Nashville that some thyroid patients had found helpful. Let me know if you didn’t receive it. Hope your day is going great.
- Bethanie
Alexis, I’m hypothyroid and have Hashimotos as well, so you’re definitely not alone! I remember how I felt when I was diagnosed. It was overwhelming to think of all the things I had to learn. What helped me was to not try to learn everything in one day. Just take things step by step, keep on trucking along and most of all start to trust how you feel. I think sometimes when we’ve bee low, or hypothyroid for a long time we kind of get used to feeling pretty crappy. When you start on your medication don’t be afraid to speak to your doctor about adjusting your dose. Most of us don’t get it exactly right the first time and have to tweak until we get a level of medicine that works best for us. Some of us will have to change medications…many now are using either NatureThroid or even the Canadian version. Just don’t accept feeling bad, it’s not necessary and with some perseverance you can feel better. I feel the best I have felt in probably 20 years. Not sure how old you are but aging (I’m peri-menopausal) doesn’t have to mean that you feel bad. Took me a long time to figure that one out:-) Glad you came to the thyroid group and please know that we’ll give you lots of support and are just an email away. Feel free to lean on us if you need to.
Re: Hypothyroid Diagnosis
Hello Alexis, welcome to the thyroid group. I’m sorry that you are also struggling with a hypothyroid diagnosis, but we are happy to have you join us to discuss how it is possible to feel well even with thyroid disease.
The great news is that now that you’re aware that you have Hashimotos, it will become much easier to manage your symptoms. The worst part, in my opinion, is the not knowing. Not feeling well, and being told for years that everything’s fine, while knowing that your body is not doing well, is the worst!
Alright, so now that you know, here’s some quick tips:
1. Get copies of all your labwork each time it is drawn
2. Learn to look at the Free T3, and Free T4 levels and understand that there’s a big difference between being in range and optimal. Let me know if you need more info on this
3. Because you have Antibodies labs may not always be the best way for you to be on the right thyroid dose. Your TSH will be suppressed, meaning low if you start on the Natural Thyroid Hormones, so just know that up front and run far away if a doctor tries to dose you strictly on the TSH. It is the least important value of all the labs, and with Hashimotos, your labs will likely fluctuate from day to day, making them not as useful as for those thyroid patients who don’t have Hashimotos.
4. Get a journal. Keep the following in it: Date/Time/Amount of thyroid medication that you took, any other supplements that you take, energy level, and then also take your temperature with one of the old shake down thermometers under the arm before you get out of bed first thing in the am. and again mid afternoon. Chart these temps in your book, this will help you monitor your thyroid dosage.
5. Have you had a full iron panel done including ferritin? If so, let me know otherwise, ask for this to be run during your next visit.
That should give you a beginning point. Any questions, please ask.
Bethanie
Just got diagnosed as hypothyroid. My name is Alexis and I just got news that what I feared was true. My thyroid is not doing that great and apparently I have low thyroid. For several years I had begged my doctor to do thyroid testing, and he said that he did, but from what I was told he never tested my antibodies. He retired and the nurse practitioner whom I am seeing now tested my thyroid antibodies and both are positive. I don’t have my results yet, as I am still a bit shocked that what I feared for years is true. I am going to ask for one of the natural thyroid medications. I think I will ask for the NatureThroid if I can find it. Anyone have any advice for a newly diagnosed thyroid patient?
Margaret,
The thyroid group welcomes you:-) Glad to have you here. As you can see we’re all learning from each other, so there’s no question that you can’t post.
Regarding your issue with your hair, yes I’ve experienced hair loss from thyroid issues in the past, although mine did resolve once my thyroid meds were optimized.
However, here’s some things you may want to look into.
1) Did you ever have a Reverse T3 drawn? If not, please ask for this to be done at your next bloodwork appointment because what can happen sometimes is that your labs look fabulous but you’re not getting the active thyroid hormone into your cells because the Reverse T3 is too high. This causes “pooling” of the thyroid hormone, which means, guess what? Your labs although they look so great, but you’re not getting the thyroid hormone into your system. Consequently, you still have hypothyroid symptoms and a big one is hair loss.
2. ) Ferritin: Have you had your ferritin tested? Another “big one” with regards to thyroid hormone levels. Although ferritin is the storage iron value, if too low, your medication can’t work properly and same scenario–hypthyroidism and hair loss
Let me know if you’ve had ferritin along with a full iron panel and also what your reverse T3 levels were.
The good news is that your hair loss can greatly improve if it is due to thyroid issues and it is something that is just not quite right with your meds or how your body is using the thyroid hormone.
Hi Tina, and welcome Margaret,
Tina I wanted to make sure that you also knew not to take your thyroid hormones on the morning of your blood draw. You can take them immediately afterwards, but it is not recommended to take them on the morning before you are having labs drawn as it will artificially inflate your labs values. So for a more accurate lab result, just skip the thyroid hormone on the a.m. when you’re having your blood drawn, and take your thyroid hormones immediately after.
Margaret, just wanted to welcome you to the thyroid group. My hair was falling out all the time but stopped after I got on the right dose of my thyroid medicine. I think you’ll probably have some other responses to your question, but wanted to say “hi” and welcome to you.
Karen,
Wonderful to hear from you. I’ll send you a list of the docs we have on our list for the Nashville area. Remember, these are docs that other thyroid patients have recommended, I haven’t checked them out personally:-)
What I suggest doing is calling their office and asking some basic screening questions:
1. Cost of Visit
2. Length of Visit
3. How much experience does the doc have with treating thyroid patients
4. What thyroid testing does he/she typically do?
5. Make sure he/she minimally tests for Free T4, Free T4, TSH, and will also run antibody tests if required
Reverse T3 in terms of testing is sometimes very, very helpful, but the ones above are the minimums
6. Ask if the doc doses only by labs or by labs+ symptoms
I generally get a good feel for a practice by asking those questions. Most of the time I ask to be transferred to the nurse to ask the questions because in general sometimes the front desk doesn’t have any idea about thyroid issues. Sometimes they do, but most of the time I have to ask for a nurse or someone in a clinical area.
The other option I have used in the past is to type out my list of questions and then fax them over to the nurse and ask her to find out the answers and either fax, email or call me back. Some never do, but then I know I won’t go there as a patient, because I figure if they can’t answer my questions before I’m a patient what chance do I have of getting them to answer afterwards… LOL
Anyway, look for my email today on the docs. Will look forward to hearing how your next appointment goes! Thanks for writing.
Bethanie
Bethanie,
I saw where you told Tina that you all have a list of doctors that have worked well for us thyroid patients. I was wondering if you had a doctor on the list in the Nashville, TN area? You can send to my email.
Thanks for all your hard work. I haven’t been on here in several weeks & there is a lot of great information being posted!
I go back to my Dr. on Aug. 16 & will update you all with my labs.
Thanks again!!
Karen
Low Thyroid and Hair Loss Question:
Hi everyone, I’m new to the thyroid group here and have an embarrassing question. My hair keeps falling out even though my labs are great according to my Naturopath. My Free T3 and Free T4 are both upper limits of normal and my TSH is .09, which is a bit low but my Naturopath says that is normal because I am on natural thyroid medicine and not the synthetic. I had read that hair loss was a symptom of being low thyroid but I thought this would be corrected once I started on the thyroid medicine. Anyone else have issues with their hair falling out?
Tina,
I also had some challenges with getting my thyroid dose “just right” and although I had to switch from Armour thyroid when they changed it to NatureThroid, what I do now is to vary my dose each day.
I’m on 2 grains of NatureThroid, and I take 1.5 grains in the morning and another .5 in the afternoon on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. On Tuesday and Thursday I take 1.5 grains in the morning and 3/4 grains in the afternoon. For whatever reason, my body just needs a little more, part of the time. I am an exercise instructor and on Tuesday and Thursday my workouts are very strenuous, so I think I just need a bit more thyroid medicine on those days. I know some other thyroid patients who just take their dose in the morning but may take 1 grain every other day alternated with 1.25 grains.
I have a cool doc…he says, everyone is different and that I should experiment with the times and amounts (slightly) to see what works best for me. He knows I won’t take too much, I know it’s important to go slow when adjusting a dose and that it can be dangerous to be on either too much or too little thyroid hormone, but I learned from this doc that I can modify my dose to meet what my body needs
Hi Tina, Thanks for the update. I hope you have good success with your former endo:-) I also wanted to mention that we’ve been so focused on your old/vs new dose that one really important issue as well is the Armour that you’re on. Now to be fair, there are some people who say they do just fine with the new reformulated Armour thyroid med, but many others, including myself go very hypothyroid on it and/or have side effects that we didn’t have before. Like, heart palpitations, headaches, hair loss etc. Some thyroid patients are having these side effects even with so called “normal” labs. Others are seeing their TSH spike really high, along with their Free T3 and Free T4 levels plummeting, so it’s hard to say exactly what’s going on with the new Armour.
Some people, who were having problems with the new Armour, have reported success with crushing the tablets, taking them sublingually and adding a drop of honey to them. Because of the extra cellulose in the new Armour, it may be more difficult for enough medication to get into your system thus the honey and the sublingual method of taking the Armour may help your body be able to utilize more of the medication instead of having the cellulose bind it.
If someone is doing well on the new Armour I have a hard time recommending that they consider talking to their doctor about changing meds, but I also know there have been a lot of people who have not been pleased with the changes that Forest did with the Armour. But if you know you do well on it and it’s just your dose that needs adjusted, then in your case it may work just fine for you if you can get your dose correct.
And in terms of the testing, it would be great to know your antibody levels and if you have them, but if you aren’t sure and are still trying to regulate your dose, one suggestion to save money might be to try to decide the following.
1. What dose are you going to try?
2. Are you going to stay on Armour Thyroid or are you going to perhaps try NatureThroid or even the Canadian Version of the natural dessicated thyroid hormone?
3. Whatever you decide to take for your thyroid hormone all of them, the Armour, NatureThroid and/even the Canadian type can be crushed and honey added (I’ve seen and heard from lots of patients that even doing this one step can affect how they feel and also their lab levels)
Once you decide on the above, you may want to do whatever adjustments you are going to make to your medication regimen, and then get re-tested in 4-6 weeks to see how the outcome is, and then get your antibodies done at that time.
Just some suggestions perhaps so that you aren’t having to pay for testing now and then again in 4-6 weeks. If you can get both tests covered then it’s not a huge issue. I always try to minimize my blood draws so I like to make my adjustments first, and then retest insted of test/adjust/re-test. But that’s just my personal preference:-)
A lot to consider, I know, but I think it’s worth it to tweak things for yourself and see how you feel and how your labs respond.
Take care, and hope you have a wonderful week!
Bethanie
Hello Ladies,
Thanks again for the positive feedback:-) Yes, I am beginning to think that it’s time to just do what makes me feel better, as I’m back to getting those horrible heart flutters, which went away on the higer dose. I’m going to try and get hold of the endo I saw in St. Petersberg, to see if he can’t work his magic and get me tested again. Will let you know the outcome.
Have a great week, everyone.
Tina,
You wouldn’t believe what I went through with my HMO doctors. I had 1/2 of my thyroid removed, yet my doctors told me to stop taking all thyroid hormones. It almost killed me! Finally, I was able to find a good Doctor of Osteopath who prescribed Armour Thyroid for me. I felt better almost instantly. Now, I’m not positive that I’ll stay on the Armour forever, things have shifted since the company changed the medicine. But at least it’s better than how I felt without the right thyroid medication. Some doctors are a godsend, while others can just be very stupid. I hope you can get back on the dose that was working for you.
Hi Tina,
Keeping one’s thyroid medication in the right ranges sure can make your head spin sometimes. My work schedule has been crazy, otherwise I would have written in to you earlier. If you feel better on the higher dose, and have all those hypothyroid symptoms and your temp is still so low, then my personal thoughts on this is that the other dose you were on — when you felt better — is much safer for you then trying to stay in a level that is much too low. Like the other ladies said, TSH isn’t the gold standard for dosing, it’s your Free T3 and Free T4 that are important, along with the other things already mentioned and like you said …How you Feel!!!!
I went to dinner with a med student over the weekend and even she knew that the TSH is actually a pituitary test — and that the Free T3 and Free T4 is what we should be evaluating. And she was a 2nd year medical student. Isn’t that amazing that even medical students know more than some of our endocrinologists?
And quick note on your antibodies.. If you’ve had them in the past, if money is an issue and you can’t get your tests paid by insurance, it’s not absolutely necessary to retest them. Getting your old results would be a big help for you, but if you can’t and you’ve had antibodies in the past, then it’s even more impt. for you to properly treat your thyroid and be on enough thyroid hormone, otherwise your antibodies will get worse.
If I were you, and this is just me…not trying to tell you what to do, but if it were me, I would go back so fast on the other dose that made me feel better so fast it would make some heads spin:-) You gotta do what you gotta do sometimes in order to try to stay healthy.
Thanks for joining us and please stay in touch.
My Hashimotos Diagnosis came years too late. Probably had it for a long time, but as usual, my Physician didn’t test me for the antibodies. When I finally found out I had Hashimotos, everything made sense in terms of what I had been feeling for years. I take NatureThroid now, 3 grains a day along with selenium which has been shown to help alot in those with thyroid disease and antibodies. I agree with everyone here, it’s a long haul to find the right combinations of both meds and doctors. But if you have antibodies, I would certainly not want to be on too low of a thyroid dose. This can cause the antibodies to flare up which you most certainly want to avoid.
Hi Angie and Bethanie,
Thanks again for the support and guidance. Much appreciated:-)
You said it, Angie, when you stated “…and for you to find a doc who will treat you not just based on the numbers, but also how you feel.” This is the challenge, especially here in FL, when you are one of the seriously underinsured. There is a well respected thyroid specialist in town, but I am reluctant to even try calling him, because I know he won’t see a patient who has crappy insurance, as I do. He does thyroid antibody tests for anyone who wants them (my insurance paid for them back in ’03, but won’t now unless an endocrinologists makes the recommendation, so it’s a Catch 22, as he would be the one who has to order them), but states on his website that they have to be paid out of pocket as no insurance will pay for them. Can’t afford to do that, I’m afraid.
Anyway ladies, I am grateful to have found this site, and will keep you posted. Today, my temp was a a whopping 97.0F, so I’m heading back downwards again….yet another reason to go back to the 90mg!
Happy weekend!
Hi Tina, glad you’re here, but so sorry you’re having to deal with the dreaded thyroid issues:-) You sound like you’re doing fantastic with your numbers (the other ones…not the thyroid ones) …I’m approaching 58 myself, so knowing that your blood pressure and pulse are in such great ranges, gives me hope for getting mine back under control:-)
So if you haven’t noticed nothing gets Bethanie’s blood boiling more than hearing a doctor say that a thyroid patient is “fine” just because their labs are “within the limits’. I say this smiling, but she’s a fierce one to stand up for our rights as patients. LOL. I don’t think it was always the case, but probably she had one too many doctor’s visits where they weren’t catching what was really going on with her thyroid, and I know she got very ill as a result of her many, many doctors not doing proper testing and when testing was done, not interpreting the results correctly. So I think she tries to save us from a similar fate!
So I’m just writing to see if I can give you some help with the antibodies. If you had your
TPO Antibodies (Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies)
and
TG Antibodies (Thyroglobulin Antibodies) tested, and either one of those came back positive, then you have something else to be aware of meaning that it is very probable that you have Hashimotos.
With Hashimotos, the immune system attacks the thyroid, and that makes it very important to keep the TSH more supressed than ever because that can prevent another attack from happening.
I didn’t know this on my own, learned this from being here, and Bethanie’s ever patient help:-) Anyway, the antibodies should they be there are something to know about, and the treatment (even though many of the endos say there’s nothing to be done, but in reality, by treating with thyroid hormone you can sometimes stop the attack.
I have Hashimotos so I’ve walked this journey along with the hypothyroid one.
We all can related to what you’re going through. With lots of patience and support you can feel better. Just trust your instincts..sounds like that’s what you’re doing anyway by posting here, and if you were doing better on the other dose, then that is important to know and for you to find a doc who will treat you not just based on the numbers, but also how you feel.
Tina, thanks for the updated information on your thyroid lab results and additional information. Your sharing this provides lots of helpful clues as to what’s going on with regards to your thyroid treatment. Gotta go kind of back to what I initially said…. the TSH is the LEAST important value for your lab results. Sorry for repeating, but I had to say that to myself after all my doctors kept telling me my thyroid was “fine.” The other thing I hear you saying and it was exactly what I did as well, is that your results in some areas were ‘within range’. We joke sometimes on this thyroid discussion board about being rich ladies if we had a $1.00 for every time we heard a doc say our results are ok because they were ‘within range’.
You said you’re in the medical field, so I know you will understand. I’ll give you ferritin (the lab that’s incidentally something you should have run if you haven’t already….) but let’s take a look at the ranges of the ferritin (each lab will be a little different) and I’m doing this strictly from memory but i’ts the concept tha’ts important. So let’s say your lab’s ranges for ferritin are from (10-291) and your lab results come back at an (11). Wow, that’s still within normal limits but guess what? You, as a thyroid patient, will feel miserable at a ferritin of 11. Furthermore, your thryoid medication doesn’t even work well when you’re ferritin is that low. But by golly, do you think any one of the many physicians I initially consulted even thought about telling me to raise my ferritin? Mine was very low, I don’t have my exact numbers in front of me, but it was an eye opener when I learned that within range really means nothing. You have to look at each individual lab and then see where in the range you are. Ok, sorry, off my soapbox: LOL, I just feel so badly for everyone who has to go through this crap with their docs who are not looking at the entire picture.
Ok, so let’s address your specifics:
1. Your TSH with any type of natural thyroid med will be supressed. It’s normal and expected, so unless your TSH goes UP above 2.50 or 3.0 you can expect that it will be very low, and as long as your FREE T3, Free T4, and vitals are good, it’s not an issue
2. If Your Free T3 was at the lower end of the range, you are hypothyroid and need more thyroid medication (Free T3 must be at the upper end of the range in order to feel well)
3. Free T4. Should be midrange or even higher is ok
4. Constipation, dry skin, low body temperature, etc, are ALL HYPOTHYROID symptoms.
I will write more later about the antibodies, and/or maybe someone else will write about that as I’m at work, but wanted to get this out there to you.
You are, absolutely correct in thinking that you can and should correct these things. If you felt well on the higher dose and aren’t having increased pulse, shakiness, temperature increases, blood pressure increases, palpitations etc… then go back to the dose that you felt well on because it’s not that different than the lower dose you mentioned and in terms of how you feel it seems like it’s making a world of difference for you. There are many more health risks for undertreating the thyroid then getting it optimized. I’ve seen cholesterol levels plummet, heart rates stabilize, people being able to exercise, and take better care of themselves, all by getting on a proper dose of thyroid replacement hormone if they needed it.
If you have to, you may even consider using another doctor. Most of the times the DO’s, Doctor of Osteopaths are a little better, but even then it’s difficult to find one who understands, thyroid, adrenals, iron (ferritin) etc. We keep a list of docs that other patients have said they’ve had success with. If you want this let me know what area of the country you’re in and I can email that to you personally if you wish.
Keep us posted and just know that normally endos are the worst in terms of addressing thyroid issues appropriately. (I saw 3 of them, and all 3 said I was “fine”.
Hang in there,
Bethanie
Thanks for the welcome Bethanie and Lori…it’s good to be among fellow travelers! I don’t have my Free T3 and T4s at home with me, but last time they were done (when I was on ~67mg of Armour Thyroid), they were within normal ranges, but the Free T3 (I think it was) was at the very lowest limit of normal. Back then, my TSH was 1.7 (the lab used a reference range of approx. 0.45 – 3.75 mU/dL). I will call the clinic and get the exact results, but it might take a few days. I agree about the TSH, but as mine was so extraordinarily low, it was a bit of a shock. My body temp is always low, and just for the hell of it I took it just now, at almost half past midnight, and it’s still only 97.7F. If it’s 98.6F I have a fever! My BP averages 105/65, and my pulse is around 60. Not bad for an almost 58 year old, who takes no medications whatsoever – not even Tylenol – I can’t anyway, but that’s another story. I can be brady, especially at night, but not so much right now. As soon as I dropped from 90mg, I began to get constipated again and the weight piled on. My hair started to fall out once more, my skin dried up, and my nails began splitting. It’s amazing how quickly it’s all happened. I also started feeling dizzy again. But, at least I’m sleeping better! The last thyroid antibodies I did were back in 2004, and I don’t have copies. They indicated a sluggish, but not exceptionally so, thyroid. But then my TSH was close to 3.0, in other words “normal” Despite that, based on the antibodies’ test, the endocrinologist prescribed Armour Thyroid, but I didn’t take it , until now, due to my high sensitivity to all meds, excipients, colors, etc., which was worse 6 years ago than it is today.
I really appreciate the input, as the doctors I interact with here are all old-school and don’t believe you should take anything unless your TSH is >10.0, and that you should only take synthetics. I can’t, and even if I could, I wouldn’t. All support and information will be most gratefully received. Thanks, Tina
Hi Tina, The TSH, as Bethanie mentioned is not really an accurate way of judging how much thyroid medication you need. If you don’t have any cardiovascular or other effects, and you feel better on the slightly higher dosage, then I certaintly wouldn’t risk feeling miserable over a small adjustment in your thyroid dose. There are other indicators that are important to evaluate: For example, your temperature. I take mine first thing in the morning before getting out of bed, and check it under my arm, using one of the old style mercury type thermometers. You can also get an old style thermometer without mercury, my friend just got one at Walgreens, and those will work also. Additionally, I check my temp every afternoon around 3pm and then keep a chart of my temps. Seeing if your temp is stable is another good way to see if you are on the proper dose of thyroid hormone and also monitoring your pulse and blood pressure each day. Most importantly it is critical to chart how you feel. Labs are only guidelines, and one of the best measurements on how you are doing is to check in with yourself every day and see how you feel. How’s your energy level, your fatigue, how’s your hair doing, is it falling out, how’s your skin. Do you have constipation or other symptoms of being hypothyroid. Some doctors who aren’t very good with thyroid issues are so hung up on the TSH, that they don’t consider the entire picture. And all of us thyroid patients need them to look at the entire view…not just a small little piece of it. And then if you have the other labwork that Bethanie mentioned that would be ideal. If you don’t, please post what other tests you have had done with regards to your thyroid so that you can get more help if you need it. Good luck and welcome to our thyroid group.
Hashimotos Patient also. Nancy, I’m writing back to you with regards to your question about Hashimotos and Thyroid Disease. I spent several years “knowing” something was dreadfully wrong with my body, yet all the doctors I initially saw basically ignored my symptoms and made me feel like it was all in my head. I went from being active and physically fit to an almost debilitated state. My neck thickened and I later learned that the goiter which was initially small, grew to a size which later required the removal of my entire thyroid. I was exhausted ALL of the time, couldn’t concentrate on anything and thought I may be dying. But lab tests showed “nothing” because no one until way later in my illness, thought to do any testing for the thyroid antibodies. When I finally was told I had Hashimotos I couldn’t believe I had suffered for so long and was made to feel like I should just “buck up” and feel better. For me, it was too late to simply start on some thyroid medication — my entire thyroid gland had to be removed, and now I am on thyroid medication for life. If any one of my doctors though had paid attention earlier, and put me on thyroid medication there was a chance that the goiter would not have grown so large and perhaps my physical condition would not have gone down so severely.
The good news is that now I’m doing great. Feel better than I have for years, but that still doesn’t take away the disappointment that I have with the medical profession at blaming aging and menopause on everything and not taking me seriously.
Hi Tina, welcome to the thyroid group. Can you tell me what your Free T3, and Free T4 levels were along with the ranges for your labs? Also, have you ever been tested for thyroid antibodies? What I’ve found is that in regards to the TSH, this is the LEAST important number to look at when evaluating the effectiveness of a dose. If you can let me know what your other lab values were I’d be glad to give you some additional feedback. There are others here who also have some really good knowledge so I wouldn’t be surprised if other thyroid patients chime in and give you some help as well. Glad you posted, and let us know just a bit more info on your labs please:-)
Warmly,
Bethanie
Started taking Armour Thyroid in December of 09. Being cautious, because I am a medical professional myself, I started on 15mg, but every two-three weeks I had to increase the dose because my symptoms of hypothyroidism persisted. It was also really difficult to get any of the pills due to the shortage. I ended up taking the equivalent of approx. 67mg, and my TSH came back perfectly normal, but it still wasn’t working enough, as I was still losing hair, gaining weight, having brain fog, etc. So, we upped my dosage to 90mg and I have never felt better in my life! My energy levels went through the roof, my hair started to grow again, and the weight began to drop, slowly. My only difficulties were getting enough sleep and being a bit quick to temper…small prices to pay for feeling so good. Then we got the results of the next TSH (0.005 mU/dL), so two weeks later ran another TSH, which came back 0.009. Even though I was asymptomatic for any cardiovascular issues, both my doctor and I decided that I should lower the dose, although I knew that returning to 67mg would catapault me back into hell. Thus, I have been trying to cut the 90mg tablet to make 75mg, but it’s almost impossible. Some of my old symptoms are returning, and the temptation to just go back on the higher dose is great. If my TSH levels were a little higher I would. Has anyone else had this issue, where one dose is far too much, but any lower is too low? Or, is this just an issue with the newly-formulated medication?
Hashimotos is progressive Nancy, so if you do nothing it may be a long and painful process for you to wait until your thyroid is eventually destroyed by your immmune system. I have seen patientshalt or even reserve Hashimotos by adding in the following:
1. Selenium – It’s a supplement you can buy it over the counter and it has been found to help Hashimotos
2. Some type of Natural Thyroid Medication: this is useful to stop the attacks on your thyroid and I would recommend you consult a practitioner who has knowledge in working with natural thyroid meds.
My question relates to Hashimotos. My doctor said I have Hashimotos disease and we will “monitor” my thyroid and see how things go. But I was wondering do I have to wait until my thyroid doesn’t work anymore to take thyroid medication? Wouldn’t it be better to try some thyroid medication now befor my thyroid burns itself out completely?
Found this thyroid group on the recommendation of a friend. Could I have a thyroid problem even though my labs are supposedly ‘ok’? My energy is so low all the time and I thought I may have a thyroid issue but my doctor says I don’t.
Watch out for depression with Levothyroxine. My husband was prescribed compounded thyroid medication containing levothyroxine for his hypothyroid diagnosis. The Levothyroxine caused him severe depression and mood issues. Not a great thing to happen when your energy is already low from the thyroid not working very well. He’s not one to complain but I noticed immediately that something was “off” with him, and then when he let me know that he had started on the Levothyroxine– I then told him to stop taking it, and the mood issues immediately resolve. We weren’t warned of this from the doctor or anything. I am going to ask that they change him over to a natural thyroid medication to see if that is better for him.
Beverly and Lynnette, I wasn’t able to raise my thyroid meds until my ferritin was above 60. When my ferritin was too low—mine started out at 5, it seemed as if every time I tried to raise my thyroid dose, it was a disaster. I learned about the ferritin from another thyroid patient, and supplemented for close to 8 months. Then, I could raise my thyroid dose up to 3 grains per day. I am also working on getting back my physical conditioning. Before, with the low ferritin, I would get out of breath so easily.
I had to try different dosing of my thyroid hormones because there was no good doctor in my area at the time. I went to see a holistic doctor to get my initial prescription and following that, spent about a year trying to get my dosing correct. I remember when I finally got on 2 grains of Armour. It was like a huge lightbulb went off in my head. Colors were deeper, the sky was prettier, things were easier to get done, and my energy. Oh dear, my energy was finally back. It was like a fabulous gift.
Thyroid problems as well….still not feeling very well. My temp is low but within normal range, so theoretically I guess this means I should be close to being optimized on my thyroid medication? I check my pulse rate every morning and afternoon, and it’s still quite low. The thyroid labs are expensive so I’m trying to watch my funds and save up for cost of the laboratory testing. I’m wondering if I should stay on my current NatureThroid dose or if I should try raising by 1/4 grain just to see if things improve at all.
I know you’re not supposed to “self dose” thyroid meds, but right now I don’t have much choice and my old doctor, who retired, said I could raise slowly up the amount that I’m currently taking now anyway. If it hadn’t been for him I would’ve been stuck on Synthroid forever I think and would have never even known that there was a natural thyroid medication to use.
Has anyone had to deal with trying to adjust their thyroid dose in small increments? I’m just looking for some help/experiences from others who may have gone through this before.
I raised my armour thyroid 1/4 grain every 6 weeks. I had some feelings of being jittery when I got to 2 grains of thyroid medication. So I take 1/2pm the morning and 1/2 around noon.
NatureThroid and Allergies: I started using NatureThroid after the Armour fiasco because the added cellulose in the Armour thyroid meds didn’t agree with my system at all. I had tried the honey, tried crushing the meds, tried taking normally and tried taking sublingually. All to no avail. I have allergies however and one of my co-workers with allergies told me that the NatureThroid uses non-allergerenic binders in the medicine, which sounded good to me. So I tried it and so far it has worked well for me. I did have to use the honey and I found that the sublingual route for the NatureThroid seems to make much more difference than the new Armour. My labs are looking good, but even more important is that I feel good. I’m back to running again and don’t feel so exhausted at the end of a workout like I used to. I don’t have any trouble getting it at Walgreens so if you are searching for it in your city, perhaps you could call the Walgreens closest to you to see if they carry it. CVS in my town didn’t have it, neither did several other chain pharmacies. Not sure why Walgreens is able to keep it in stock when others don’t have it. But as long as I can get my thyroid medication at Walgreens I’m a happy camper.
Add me to the list of those with Hashimotos! Boy,we’re a popular crowd. I’ve been on Armour thyroid for the past 5 years, and nothing seems to help. I’ve tried the honey, tried crushing the pills and taking them sublingually, but my labs keep going up even though I’ve raised my dose several times. My Nurse Practitioner wants to put me back on Synthroid…..”OH, NO”….I don’t want to go there again. So I’m going to ask her to write a prescription for the NatureThroid. I’ve called around and can’t seem to find it in my city. So I may have to order it. Sure wish I could find it locally.
I’m another one in the group with Hashimotos, and I take the NatureThroid and definitely find that crushing it and adding in the honey makes a huge difference. Before I did that, it was like I couldn’t tell if the thyroid medication was working, but now, right after I take it, I get some energy and don’t feel as if I’m just dragging. I also split up my dose and take 1 grain in the morning when I awaken (one hour before any food) and then I take 1/2 grain about 6 hours later. Both times I crush the tablet and add in the honey. It seems to help lessen my fatigue quite a bit. Most days I feel like a “normal” person again. Which is a great feat considering it too much energy just to empty the dishwasher before I was diagnosed.
Julie, if you are going to try Armour thyroid, may I suggest that you try taking it sublingually and adding just a drop or two of honey to it? As long as you’re not diabetic…of course. But the extra cellulose in the new Armour made me have a return of my hypothyroid symptoms — until I crushed my tablet and added a bit of honey to it. I just put the crushed tablets in my mouth and let them dissolve against my cheek. I know many people still aren’t having success with Armour, but for me, that works well and I can stay on it and don’t have to change thyroid medications. You could also try the NatureThroid, but I have friends that also use the honey trick with the NatureThroid because they say it helps it work better too.
Re: How Long to Feel Better When Starting Thyroid Medicine?
Hi Julie, when I first began Armour Thyroid medication I felt better within a few hours. But I think you are wise to consider asking your doctor for another type of natural dessicated thyroid hormone. From comments I have seen there are many thyroid patients who are not doing that great using Armour thyroid since the company changed the formula. I would ask for a prescription for either NatureThroid or even the Canadian thyroid medication. If you need more help with how to order the Canadian thyroid just ask. Some people would rather get their thyroid medication locally and if that’s the case if I were a new thyroid patient I would start off with NatureThroid instead. Good luck and glad to have you join the thyroid board.
How long does it take for you to feel better once you start on thyroid medication? I was just diagnosed with Hashimotos and have been prescribed Armour thyroid. My TSH was 8 and so I’m anxious to know how soon I could feel better. Do you think I should ask my doctor to change my prescription to another natural thyroid med and not use Armour? I’ve read so many bad things about it recently that I don’t know if I should try it first or if I should ask for another thyroid med.
Pauline, there are many cases of dysautonomia patients who also have thyroid disorders. Hashimotos, just from my experience here, pops up quite a bit along with the autonomic problems. You’re also not the first person who has reported that once the thyroid medication is optimized, that this also helps the autonomic symptoms considerably. With many autonomic problems patients I know are told to exercise, yet the extreme fatigue and tachycardia that is experienced with dysautonomia keeps them unable to exercise –or at least can limit their ability to do so. However, if the fatigue and tachycardia is lessened with an appropriate dose of thyroid medication, then exercise can resume, which helps in a variety of ways. Welcome to the thyroid group. Also, what thyroid medication are you now taking? Are you still taking Armour or have you switched to something else?
My name is Pauline and I just found this site a few days ago. Have been reading every thing! My thyroid began giving me trouble and I found out I have Hashimotos, an auto-immune condition where my immune system is attacking my thyroid gland. I had been taking the old Armour for years, but along with the hypothyroidism, I also have an autonomic dysfunction that’s called dysautonomia. Normally when I need to increase my thyroid dosage, my dysautonomia gets much worse. My symptoms are lightheadedness, dizzyness, and tiredness. When I’m on the correct dose of thyroid medication, it’s like a miracle, my autonomic symptoms vanish.
I was wondering if anyone else had both a thyroid problem and autonomic dysfunction. Thanks!
Carla, most of us if we are taking our thyroid medication 2x a day take it approximately 6 hours apart. I find that splitting the dose definitely helps with the late afternoon “slumps” that can happen if I try to take the whole dose in the morning. I take my NatureThroid sublingually so that it doesn’t interfere with food intake, but I make sure that I have a small bottle of honey with me because I have to add a drop of honey to the crushed thyroid tablets in order for them to be absorbed better.
Welcome to the thyroid group and if you try splitting your thyroid dose, could you please post back and let us know how that works for you?
Hi,
My doctor just raised my thyroid medication dose to 3 grains. I’m taking the Canadian Thyroid now after not being able to handle the new Armour brand. My question is regarding timing and possible spliting up my med dose. Should I take all 3 grains in the morning or should I take some in the afternoon? I do tend to get really tired in the afternoons and was thinking that perhaps if I split up my timing of my thyroid meds it could possibly help with the fatigue. What do you all think?
Hi everyone, My name is Janet and I am also brand new to this website. My hypothyroid symptoms started going away after taking the old Armour initially. What was the most helpful was that I could begin exercising again, and taking the Armour helped my heartrate to remain more steady. Prior to being diagnosed I would get a very fast, pounding heartrate with any type of exercise, then tons of fatigue immediately after where I’d have to lay down to rest. My hair also improved, and my skin tone appeared to be much better with the Armour. The overall fatigue was slower to improve, but it did, even though it seemed like it took forever. But then the company changed the Armour, and I’m feeling like I’m back to square one. I tried compounded and that didn’t seem to work, I may ask for NatureThroid or even try the Canadian version. It’s depressing to think of having to work through all this again, especially since I had finally been doing so much better. Thanks for letting me vent.
Hello Kellie,
Glad you’ve joined our group of thyroid patients having a discussion about our thyroid issues:-) Here are some tips that I hope can help you.
When you ask for “complete thyroid testing” make sure and type out YOUR list of tests that you would like run. I hear all the time patients saying “my thyroid was tested” and my doc said I was “fine” or they did all the thyroid tests, but I still feel lousy and I guess it’s not my thyroid.
First, not everyone who’s tired or feels lousy has a thyroid problem:-) But, if you have many hypothyroid symptoms and you haven’t been properly tested, then it’s indeed a very large problem for many people that they are not diagnosed or misdiagnosed for years with an existing thyroid issue.
Here’s a list of the tests that are recommended for a starting point for thyroid testing.
Free T3
Free T4
TSH
Reverse T3
TPO Antibodies (Thyroid Perioxidase Antibodies)
TG Antibodies (Thyroglobulin Antibodies)
Iron Panel including (Ferritin ) The Ferritin is a separate Test and Must be Run Separately
It is also helpful to have a Vitamin D 25, Hydroxy Test
Endocrinologists, are generally not the most helpful for thyroid issues. Many thyroid patients have found good luck finding a Doctor of Osteopathy (DO) to oversee their thyroid issues. They can do the same things as a regular MD but are many times more holistically oriented and maybe, depending upon the doctor, more apt to look at the entire clinical picture and not be so focused on lab ranges. I always say, yes it’s important to consider labs, but they should be referenced in terms of the entire clinical picture and not just a number. Treating thyroid issues can be tricky and requires a patient, open minded, and skilled practitioner. And a patient who is willing to stick it out for the long haul and is not willing to accept that being tired and feeling awful should be a part of daily life.
Hi everyone, My name is Kellie, I’m from Miami Florida and wanted to join your discussion. I’ve had lots of symptoms of being hypothyroid for many, many years, but my doctors didn’t do the complete thyroid testing so nothing showed up in my regular blood tests that the doctor would run on an annual basis. I was ignored by my general practitioner, and although things got worse–I was told it was normal to be exhausted at age 50, and my symptoms were typical of peri-menopause etc. I was thinking about making an appointment with an endocrinologist, but I’m hearing here and from others that may an endocrinologist is not the best choice. I have a sheet all typed up with my symptoms and I’m going to ask for complete thyroid testing, but what else should I do?
I know I feel very bad and tired all the time and there must be something going on that has not been found. And I want help with this—like everyone I’m sure. Thanks so much for listening and if you need more details please ask.
Brenda,
Welcome to the thyroid group. Glad you asked the question about thyroid medication and blood pressure. Actually too much or too little thyroid medication can raise one’s blood pressure. What’s even more interesting is that if you are on an appropriate dosage of thyroid medication, your blood pressure may even come down. Furthermore, if cholesterol is an issue for you, don’t be surprised if your cholesterol levels drop after adequate replacement of thyroid hormone. If you’re nervous about starting it, see if you can begin with just a very small dose. See how you tolerate it and also monitor how you feel. There are certain signs and symptoms that your prescription will have listed on the insert that tells you what to watch out for in terms of hyperthyroid symptoms. But start small and see how you do, and please keep us posted on your progress!
Hi Karen,
You are so welcome! Endos are usually the worst when it comes to thyroid disorders and there are many other docs who think the TSH is KING…. Oh goodness, does that bring back memories. Its amazing to me at how many other health problems are resolved if you just treat the symptoms and keep the Free T3 and Free T4 in range. But I guess docs would rather our cholesterol be through the roof, and keep us tired and miserable so they can prescribe statin meds and anti-depressants. It’s maddening. I’ll see if I can get some more info on ferritin for you. Many docs simply don’t know how important it is…they wait to treat until your serum iron gets low but by that time you’re needing transfusions and it takes very long to get the iron back up where it needs to be. Anyway, I’ll write more soon, keep in touch, and thanks so much for all your feedback. We’ll all get thru this, I promise!
I have high blood pressure and have just found out that I have low thyroid. My doctor wants to put me on thyroid medication, but I am concerned that it could cause my high blood pressure to go up. Could someone please let me know if it is common to have both high blood pressure along with a thyroid issue?
Bethanie,
Thanks for all the info.!!!! I will see if I can get a range for the FT3. My quack Endo Dr. sends me a letter every year with my new RX & the lab results & it had the ranges on the letter so since I am not seeing him anymore I will not be getting those letters. I do have access to my labs but just didn’t know what all to look for. I tried looking ferritin up on the net to help me so I would know what I was looking for & I may try it again. Yes, I have been supplementing Vit D but off & on so I will continue to do so. See & my old Dr. & Endo Dr. think TSH is King & if it’s suppressed then that’s terrible. Shows how much they know (or don’t know!)
I will definitely let you know how my next IM Dr. appt. goes.
Thanks again for always helping & giving great advice!! I think you have helped save my sanity……
Karen
Hi Karen,
Great news on your labs, and I’m so glad that you’re feeling better. Your numbers look good to me, and here’s why.
T4 0.86 (range 0.50-1.20) (Normally this needs to be midrange or above, and so this is good for T4
FT3 3.6 unfortunately I do not know the range for this one. (It would be better if we knew the ranges to say for sure, because each lab can be different, but generally speaking a number of 3.6 should (if it is somewhat similar to other labs put you towards the top of the range)
That’s what you want for Free T3, you want to be at the top of the range.
TSH is suppressed, but not important if you are feeling well, your vitals are good, and everything else is in line, so I would hope that your new doctor agrees and does not drop your dose at all. If all your symptoms have resolved, then that’s great, and I would ask to stay on the same dosage.
If you’re still having some symptoms or think that you could be doing better, then it would be fine to inquire about the natural thyroid medication but if everything is going really well on what you’re doing then it’s hard for me to suggest a change. The one thing that may help especially if you’re getting tired in the afternoon is to split your Cytomel dose into 2 and take 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 in the early afternoon. (Like you mentioned…
Your vitamin D level does look good from the last draw, but I wouldn’t want it to go lower because you want it at 70% of the upper limit of normal in order to be optimized. So if you’re supplementing Vitamin D keep doing what you’re doing because that is looking good.
Regarding your ferritin, you really need to see the numbers, because eventually if it’s low it will catch up to you with thyroid issues. It drives me crazy to hear doctors say “its fine” and not give you an explanation. If you don’t have copies of your actual labwork get your old “primary care” doc to get you copies of your own labs, and the next time any doctor’s office calls you and says your labs are “fine” just smile and say ‘great’ and can you fax those over to me and/or put those in the mail today so that I have a copy? It’s really important to have your own copies of your labwork. They have to give them to you so you’re not asking for anything extraordinary by doing so.
If your old doc didn’t run ferritin then get your new IM doc to run an iron panel including a ferritin the next time he does labs. No need to get it done separately, just the next time you are running labs and then if you want feedback on the numbers, of course, post here and I’ll help you.
Would be interested in hearing how your next appointment goes with your Internal Medicine physician, and thanks again for the update:-)
Warmly,
Bethanie
Hello,
I’ve been taking synthetic thyroid medication for over 12 years. On Synthroid, my TSH levels were generally averaging about 2, and I had a difficult time exercising. Usually after any type of strenuous activity involving exercise, my heart would race, and I would sweat profusely. Following this I’d generally need a nap because I was just exhausted from the effort of exertion. After a while I had to stop exercising but I didn’t relate this to my thyroid issue. During the last 6 months, my TSH increased to around 3.20, and my symptoms explained above started happening with any type of physical activity–even housework. I asked my doctor to look into possible reasons, but he said I was “fine”, but I just couldn’t believe that there wasn’t something I could do in order to feel better. So I researched and found out that I could change to natural thyroid medication. And I’m so glad I did. All my symptoms are better now–I think my body needed the T3 for a long time but wasn’t able to convert it from the T4 in the Synthroid. I’m grateful that there are other patients sharing what works because my doctor sure wasn’t able to help me. I’m seeing a Naturopath who also supports taking T3/T4 combinations.
Bethanie,
I forgot to mention. I did talk to my Dr. who is considered my primary care Dr. but I WILL NOT be using her for my thyroid. Anyway, I asked about my Vitamin D & she said it was fine. In Jan. my # was 51 (range 25-80 optimum level and that it is hard to get insurance companies to pay for more than one a year…. Sounds crazy but probably true. I also asked about the serum iron & ferritin level. She mentioned that is related to being anemic. I had a CBC done in Jan. 2010 so I guess my levels are fine. It’s hard to tell what all the letters mean on each test.
Thanks again,
Karen
Bethanie,
Hey, I finally got my lab results. On 7/13/10 I did not take my RX before my lab.
TSH 0.100 (range 0.300-5.00)
FT4 0.86 (range 0.50-1.20)
FT3 3.6 unfortunately I do not know the range for this one.
On 6/15/10 I did take my RX before my lab.
TSH 0.0500 same range
FT4 0.96 same range
QT3 112 (range 80-200)
So what does my latest labs look like to you? I have been feeling pretty good lately. I go back to my new Int Med Dr. on Aug. 16 to see what he thinks. I will hopefully have another lab draw done before I go. To refresh I am on 125 synthroid & 25 cytomel. I might ask about the natural thyroid RX. And about taking Cytomel twice a day. I have read a little that some people do that.
I hope you have been doing well!
Thanks,
Karen
Hello Nicole,
Thanks so much for updating and sharing what you found out with regards to the filler used by your compounding pharmacy with regards to geting the natural dessicated thyroid compounded. That’s intriguing that your pharmacy said they used “celery”… can’t wait to find out more after you talk with them again. I know there’s many thyroid patients who do just fine with the compounded version. Most of the time the people that I run into are those who are using compounded and later find out that their pharmacy is using some type of cellulose or other filler that could cause issues with absorption. So I’m glad that you are being pro-active and finding out exactly what’s in the type you are going to use. I know what you mean about not being able to mess around with the different kinds of thyroid medicines to see what works and what doesn’t. And also share your frustration with the Armour being changed. Some days I just wake up in the morning and think…gosh darn it, why did Forest Labs have to change a good thing. They must know how miniscule things affect the thyroid and how we metabolize medicine…and it was the most popular brand among patients for years… yet they still had to go and change it. Sometimes it makes me soooooooooooooo angry I could scream. But that doesn’t do any good, so meanwhile we all have to figure out what’s best for us.
I don’t have Addisons but I have struggled with adrenal problems as well. Never knew why I craved salt so bad until I found about about adrenal fatigue. Now I take sea salt a few times a day and that has helped alot.
You may be happy with the Canadian Thyroid med also. Many people feel it is like the old Armour but some have had to adjust the doseage a bit…initially I heard that people were saying it felt like the reaction to taking the Canadian version was stronger than the old Armour, but then others say they had to increase their dose. Sighhhhhhh. Please keep in touch, and would love to hear how things go for you. Thanks again for sharing –hopefully we can all make it thru these challenges together!
- Aime
HI Aime,
Thanks for writing. The cost of the compounded formula is $45 per month. Quite expensive compared to Armour, for which I paid $20 per month. The filler that is used by this compounding pharmacy is “celery.” Hehehe! This is what the pharmacist told me in lay terms. I will ask for a more specific answer the next time I go in, which will be this week and I will let you know. I am also interested to know if anyone else has had success with this type of formula. I am thinking about trying the Canadian Erfa thyroid med. I have so many other health problems to deal with. This one was, in my mind, taken care of (and very well taken care of) with Armour. Now I have a huge mess because I cannot experiment with medication for my Addison’s Disease while fidgeting around with the new thyroid med. I am a very positive person and I know that I must be or all these health problems would crush me. The reality is that this all makes me sad. It is a real discouragement and it frightens me to think about the future and the possibility of having to go back to a synthetic version of this med.
We will all hope for the best!
Nicole
Nicole, Welcome to the thyroid patients group. I’m sorry that you were possibly having issues with the new Armour. Unfortunately, there are many thyroid patients, including myself, who have had simliar problems. Most of the time I hear issues with people taking the new Armour saying that they are having heart palpitations, rather than chest pain. Either way, it is very distressing and a scary situation to have happen to you, and as we all know chest pains can be dangerous not knowing if they are atributed to the thyroid medicine or something else. I’m glad that you started the compounded medication. Do you know what type of filler your pharmacy uses? If not, would you be willing to call them and ask? It’s always good for you to know as a thyroid patient, what type of filler is used with the compounding pharmacy. If you post what they are using here I can probably help you with some feedback on what it may mean. Also, could you post how much more expensive it was for you to use the compounded vs the regular Armour Thyroid medication? This helps others when trying to make a decision on what to use because I know in the past people have said that their compounded thyroid medication was more expensive than the regular, but having the specifics would surely help.
Glad you posted, and hope to hear back from you again soon.
Regards,
Aime
Hello Karen, Thanks for your nice note about my posting:-) It’s been a long haul for me getting to the point where some thyroid medication works again, but I have a doctor whose willing to work with me and I think that helps greatly. Will look forward to hearing your updates after your next physician visit and may you have good luck with your doctor’s as well.
Connie
P.S. I read that you were also doing well on the Cytomel…that’s great. It was one of the things that has helped me the most. I forgot to say in my original comment that I do split up the Cytomel. 1/2 in the am. and 1/2 early afternoon.
I just want to say … my life has entirely changed because of Armour Thyroid!!!!! I was diagnosed with Hashi at age 17, began taking Synthroid. I took this synthetic thyroid hormone for 9 years. I lived in illness and depression for that entire 9 years. Other autoimmune problems developed, I believe, as a result of what what happening in my body with the synthetic medication.
I was having blood levels which said that I was normal. The TSH was even below 0.1 at points. The problem was that my liver was not making the conversion and the med was remaining in my blood, but not going into cells to take action. I was still extremely Hypo. Then in April 2009 I switched my med to Armour. I cannot begin to describe how beautiful it was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Life came back to me! The depression and the illness lifted off of me and I began to enjoy my life like never before.
Every day now, I feel happiness. Every day I am amazed by this feeling and I am full of gratitude. During my 9 yrs of synthroid, I was prescribed anti-depressants as well as a slue of other meds to try to combat the digestive, gallbladder, colitis problems. Now I am normal. Completely normal! Everything is regular!!
Sometime at the beginning of this year, Jan 2010, I began to notice that I was developing some hypo symptoms. I thought that there may have been something that I was doing which was causing the armour to not absorb as well as it once did. My TSH came back very high. We changed my dose from 90mg to 120mg. I started to feel better, noticed the hypo symptoms going away. Until about three weeks ago, I have begun to develop horrific chest pain. It frightens me very much. On both the right and left side. It has persisted and I wonder if there is anyone else that has had a similar problem and attributes it to the new armour?
Today I had a compounded formula made and tonight took my first dose. I hope that it will be as good as the old armour. I was so happy to have found Armour in the first place. I would like to somehow organize and do something about this. Could we do something to make a petition to go back to the old med? I’m in! Let’s bring it back! Or let’s make it ourselves! Has anyone looked into what it would take to harvest and produce this granular substance? Surely there must be someone with the energy and the resource to do this! I have the energy (but not the resource $)! I am willing to do anything to bring back the medication that brought my life back!!!!!!
Nicole
Connie,
Thanks for sharing your story. I think it is very interesting that you are on more Cytomel than Synthroid. I am working on adjusting my meds right now too so I will keep that in my. I just started Cytomel about 5 weeks ago & it seems to be helping.
Thanks,
Karen
Hello Lydia,
I had an emergency surgery a few years back and it was a disaster with regards to my thyroid medication. First of all, they tried to give me synthroid (yuck) and I refused to take it telling them it wasn’t the correct medication. Then they come in and tell me “it’s all the same” yeah, right…however, in their next breath they say synthroid’s the best. Go figure. Ideally, if you have a really good family doc, he’ll have written standing orders for you to bring your thyroid medication from home. I’ve found that’s the easiest thing to do because trying to get the bureaucracy of a hospital going in terms of getting the correct medication for you could be alot more trouble than it’s worth. My husband knows where my medication is an if in a pinch he can even go home and get it if I were to be hospitalized in an emergency again and need my thyroid meds.
I’m having surgery this month and I’m on natural thyroid medication. Right now I’m on Armour but before my surgery I am going to try to switch to Nature Throid if I can get my prescription filled with that type of thyroid med. My question is what can I do to make sure that I get my natural thyroid medicine in the hospital and not put on synthroid of some other synthetic medication? Anyone have suggestions for me? Thank you!
Hello,
For anyone who has been having trouble getting Nature Throid I wanted to let you all know that I was finally able to get my 1/4 grain prescription filled, so hopefully you all will be able to get Nature Throid in your city as well if you need that type of thyroid medication.
Hi Karen,
Hope the article on TSH levels was helpful, and thank you…for sharing your thyroid story as well. That’s one of the most helpful things that happened when I was just starting on thyroid medication. Hearing from others and reading about how certain doctors only looked at the labs, and then finding out that some of the lab reference ranges were different. Who knew? LOL… Guess I was expecting that if you had a thyroid disorder that the treatment would be fairly easy. Oh, well,guess this is a learning experience for anyone with thyroid issues. Hey, if I don’t talk to you again before the holiday hope you have a great 4th of July!
It’s taken me a long time to come up with a replacement for the Armour Thyroid after it was changed. Had been taking it for many years. Was great for me—until Forest messed everything up. So experimented with lots of different thyroid meds. Took Westthroid and Nature-Throid and even the Canadian type, but I just didn’t seem to feel so great on anything else. My blood pressure was going up and so my doctor tried a different approach. I’m now on .25 of Synthroid and 75 mcg of Cytomel (T3) and it’s doing wonders for me. My blood pressure is way down both systolic and diastolic, and my allergies are much, much improved. Still have some hypo symptoms but overall, what a relief this has been. Am going to re-test labs in several weeks to see where I am and may have to increase again, but it is wonderful to find something that makes me feel as good as the old Armour.
Hi Bethanie,
I am not sure if I saw that article or not but will take a look now.
Thanks again for wonderful information!
Karen
Hi Karen,
Not sure if you saw the other article, but there’s a new article about the TSH and the thyroid testing that was recently posted. Here is a link in the event that you didn’t see it yet.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-e-living/what-to-do-when-your-doctor-says-your-tsh-is-too-low-thyroid-testing
I thought it may also give you some helpful tips on the reasons why some people need their TSH lower than others and why some doctors even think it is difficult to be properly treated for a thyroid issue. Ok, back to work for me, hope you are having a good one!
Bethanie
Rhonda,
Thank you for this information. I exercise, eat healthy, don’t have a history of high blood pressure, nor does anyone in my family, yet my lower blood pressure number has gotten progressively higher over the past several years and my doctor did want me to try blood pressure medications. Interestingly enough this coincided with my hypothryoid diagnosis so I always thought something was related but none of my physicians seemed to be able to say anything except to recommend blood pressure pills. I refused and am taking the Coenzyme Q10 along with magnesium and it has helped quite a bit. But I was glad to find your tips because I think I will try adding the Calcium/Magnesium powder because I’m at the age now where I have to watch for osteoporosis so maybe that combo will help not only my blood pressure, but my bones also.
Hello everyone,
Hypothyroidism or low thyroid levels tend to make your diastolic blood pressure number higher than normal. I saw that someone else here had suggested magnesium which is a very good suggestion. I have had excellent results using a combination of calcium magnesium powder and I take it two times a day mixed in with some juice (pure fruit juice only no sugar) or water. It helps with sleeping, I sleep better than I have in years and if you ever get that feeling like your heart is pounding through your chest, it can also help with that as well. Magnesium is leached out from the body when you’re under stress or when you have a lack of sleep, so supplementing that can be really helpful. I find that putting the powder in a liquid form seems to work better for me, probably back to the absorption issue that so many of us with thyroid problems have. And like some others have said it can also help prevent migraines and reduce cramping muscles.
Not to say this will work for everyone but my blood pressure came down 22 points both systolic and diastolic and I don’t take any prescription blood pressure medicines. So if your doctor immediately wants to put you on high blood pressure medications you may want to have a discussion with them about diet, exercise, and trying something like calcium/magnesium powder made into a liquid and see how you do. Getting a blood pressure cuff at home is a good thing as well because sometimes you don’t really have high blood pressure — just at the doctor’s office so having a home device helps you track it over time.
Luann,
I think you asked about high blood pressure and thyroid medications etc. I take CoEnzyme Q10 for my heart and it seems to help me. I have a hard time finding the energy to exercise and since I’ve been on the CoQ10 it’s almost like I’m getting more oxygen which means my heart doesn’t have to work as hard. Now, I take a walk every evening after dinner which is also great for lowering my blood pressure. So it kind of all works together I think. But for anyone with thyroid issues I think the exercise is really important.
Hi Karen,
You are so welcome. I’m just glad I can help even in a small way…wouldn’t be able to do it for you had not someone helped me earlier:-) The journal was also something that was very helpful for me, not just for my own sake but helped me keep track of my symptoms so I could relay that info to doctors. Otherwise, I would forget. LOL…my brain fog with my hypothyroid issues used to be so bad that I could barely remember my car keys much less how I felt from day to day. Keep in touch and if anything comes up before your appointment –feel free to ask. Have a good week Karen!
Bethanie
Bethanie,
Thanks again for great information. Yes, I am probably going to make the internist who put me on Cytomel my primary care Dr. because he does seem to listen & want to help me. I will get another lab drawn on 7/13/10 to see where I am at & will ask for Free T3 & Free T4. I am so glad you told me about not taking my Meds before having my blood drawn. Maybe that’s why she thinks my levels are elevated because I did take my meds the morning of my last lab. I take the Cytomel only once a day but will ask about taking it twice.
I have thought about keeping a journal so I would be able to look back & tell my dr. how I was feeling on any given day. You have been such a wealth of information & I really appreciate it.
Karen
Hi Karen,
I had to work yesterday so I’m just now able to get back to you. Regarding your doctor’s wanting you to lower your medication because of your TSH, I would suggest that she go ahead and test both your Free T3, and Free T4 before lowering anything, and then make sure that she has done a good physical exam to see if you have any symptoms of being hyperthyroid. You can also keep a chart each day with how you feel and write down if you feel jittery, are unable to concentrate, feel too warm, or have heart palpitations. It can also be a good idea to get a basal thermometer and take your temp each morning and chart it before getting out of bed. I can write more about body temps and thyroid if you need some info.
Anyway, there are people who just don’t feel well unless their TSH is supressed. And because you have positive Thyroid Antibodies, there are doctors who feel that it is important to supress the TSH below what the normal lab values would be so that the antibodies are not aggregating the thyroid gland. So a more accurate assessment of both your Free T3, Free T4, should be done, along with the physical exam and getting your symptoms to evaluate how you’re doing. Generally with the Cytomel, since it’s fast acting, it is taken twice a day instead of once a day. So I don’t know if you’re doing that but it is something you could investigate further. I wrote Lindsey here on the site, and she is going to post an article tomorrow here with more info on the TSH test, so hopefully that will also help. Oh, and another thing that helped me was this book on thyroid testing and thyroid lab values. http://www.hospitalsoup.com/thyroidbook
It’s written by a physician and you can read it and actually highlight things and bring it to your doctor’s appointments and has some good material on why some doctors are mistakenly hung up on using the labs only instead of analyzing the entire situation. And do let me know if you think you may be able to use the other doctor who prescribed you the T3 instead of the one who is only looking at the TSH and who hasn’t even tested your Free T3.
Hello Luann,
My blood pressure goes up when I am hypothyroid also. I know the first thing that some doctors will suggest are beta blockers, but I pressed my doctor to let me try some other things before starting on those. What has worked for me is to take iron supplements, not sure why but I found out my ferritin was low and this apparently can make it difficult for the thyroid hormone to penetrate the cells, thus increasing my iron has helped. Also I take magnesium glycinate, a supplement 3 times a day and this helps not only my blood pressure, but it has also stopped my headaches that I used to get around my menstrual period. Additionally, for me, once I got my iron levels up, I was able to increase my thyroid medicine so that I wasn’t hypo anymore.
Bethanie, or anyone else who could help,
Anyone else here have high blood pressure along with being hypothyroid? I know some have the opposite problem that they have low blood pressure with being hypo, but my blood pressure is high. Doctor wants to put me on blood pressure medications but I’d like to know if there are any natural supplements I could use to possibly help. Would appreciate your thoughts.
Hi Karen,
I am so sorry that you are having such a trying time with your doctor. I will send you some more info tomorrow, but in a nutshell your TSH will go very low when you’re on natural thyroid hormones. It’s normal, expected and if the physicians are not informed about this, they think you’re on too much when you’re not. I’ll send you some info over the weekend so you have some examples to show her. Again, it’s the FREE T3 and the FREE T4 that she needs to look at along with your symptoms ie: how you feel. It is indeed a struggle with most docs not knowing much about the thyroid.
Is there any way you can work with the internal medicine doctor who put you on the T3? Some docs just don’t get it. My niece saw 5 different endocrinologists who said that her thyroid was “fine” and she ended up needing surgery to remove it because it kept growing. And she was miserable and told them so, but they all thought her numbers were “within range” so she must be “fine.” She finally decided she was through with endocrinologists and found a good Osteopathic physician who was good with thyroid issues and who truly knew what he was doing. Most thyroid patients I know who are satisfied with their care (the majority of them) have found that they can use a family practitioner or internal medicine doctor, or doctor of osteopathy to write their thyroid prescriptions and handle their care just fine. Many times even if they’re not totally up to speed with thyroid issues they are more willing to work with you and actually “Listen” to the patient instead of only looking at the labs.
Although you said yours was your primary care doctor is there any way you can use the internist who put you on the T3 as your primary care provider?
And you know it’s ok to look at the labs if you know which ones are crucial and which ones are not.
Hey, another really important thing. Do not take your thyroid medication before getting your labs drawn. (For example, if you normaly take your thyroid medication first thing in the morning and your lab draw is in the morning, get your lab draw FIRST, then take your thyroid medication. Taking the medication then getting the lab draw can inflate your values too much, and you don’t want a spike to show on your lab result. So just wait and take your thyroid meds after your lab draw on the day of the test.
Before reducing your medication your physician should have taken into account:
1. Your vital signs: (How is your pulse? Is it elevated?)
2. What is your blood pressure? (Is it elevated?) how is your Heart Rhythm? Is it regular?
3. Physical Exam: Do your hands shake or tremor?
4. Temperature: Is it elevated
5. Labs: Free T3, Free T4 and TSH but only to see that it is not elevated
6. Your symptoms
You can’t just decide to lower someone’s thyroid medication based on TSH alone without taking into account a minimum of all the info I just listed.
Hang in there..sometimes if we’re running into a brick wall with certain doctors we just have to find a new one. But I’ll send you some more info tomorrow. Thanks for updating.
Bethanie
Bethanie,
My primary care Dr. just called because she looked at my last lab and said my TSH was too low that I am on too much thyroid medicine. What does my labs tell you?
06/15/10 08:44 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: 0.0500* F T4: 0.96
She said she wanted to test me again in 2 weeks. She is not the internal medicine dr. that I saw who put me on 25 mcg of Cytomel. I am also on 125 mcg of synthroid. I have lost 7 lbs. I told her that all the symptoms I was having that I had no idea they were related to my thyroid. I told her that you can’t just look at the numbers you have to also ask how the patient feels. She somewhat agreed but not really. This is so frustrating and I am going crazy. I told her that I needed to have my Free T3 checked as well.
Thanks,
Karen
Kay, I forgot to say that because you have Hashis it’s even more important to think about keeping your T3 at the high end of normal and your TSH in a lower range than where it is now. With Hashi’s from my experience, the body if it’s not getting the right amount of hormone supplemenation can generate even more inflammation and work too hard to produce thyroid hormone on it’s own. Some patients I know have had Hashis and they had goiters continue to grow and inflame until they got that back under control with adequate thyroid hormone supplementation. Most docs are not really understanding about Hashis either because their textbooks tell them just to let the thyroid burn itself out. But I really disagree with this logic, and have found through so many discussions with patients, that if you provide the right amount of thyroid hormone, and then possibly add in some selenium and some of the other things that we can do to support the thyroid, that youc can possibly stop the Hashis from progressing so quickly.
Hello again Kay,
Alrighty, here we go, now this is all just my opinion ok, but here’s the deal. There are two levels that you have to think about when talking to your doctor.
#1. The docs are going to just be black/white they’re not used to thinking in terms of shades of grey and numbers on a lab test are just that, numbers…and what most of the doctors don’t even know is that there are fluctuations even among the experts in terms of which “numbers” meaning ranges are correct for thyroid patients.
I’ve seen it posted here before about how even different laboratories use different reference ranges…and this sometimes is location dependent.
So for example, in Austin Texas if you were to go to laboratory #1 and get a TSH Test, the lab ranges that
Lab# 1 would list for a normal TSH may be (.40 – 6.50)
SO if YOUR Doctor was using Lab #1, he/she may only think you may need to be treated for hypothyroidism if your TSH was above 6.50 (Note: If my TSH was above 6.50 I would feel half dead, or wish I were LOL…… and this is a very antiquated and out of date reference level (But Most physician’s don’t even know this which is dissapointing, therefore it is up to us as patients to advocate for ourselves.)
Lab#2 If you were in Evansville Indiana for example, may list the TSH Ranges from (0.55-4.78) but then this Lab may add the following notation ******** Studies suggest that TSH values above 2.5 may be indicative of subclinical hypothyroidism.********* Huge difference in the numbers so if your doctor happend to be using Lab #2 he/she would get a different results from Doctor #1 using Lab #1
Another good article to read and print out is this one which discusses the differences among various professional organizations in terms of which range of TSH levels should be the new standard:
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/tshranges
So why is this important, because I TOTALLY agree with you about tweaking your regimen. Especially if you feel you are not feeling your very best and since you did your research and found out that you may indeed feel better if your TSH was lower and your FREE T3 was higher I think you were right on target with this and in trying to come up with a solution to try something else or in addition to your current meds.
Now, in reality, while all the labs argue, and the different professional associations debate, guess who are the EXPERTS on thyroid issues. Yep, you got it, THYROID PATIENTS…. guess WHY they’re even having the discussion on what ranges to use, because Thyroid patients, you and me, and the thousands of others like us out there, talked to their doctors, monitored symptoms, may have kept journals (smile: A great idea btw, to document, how you felt, what you were taking med wise, and what were the results. We become our own experts by listening to our own bodies)
Ok, so back to the issue. YOUR TSH could absolutely be construed depending upon which reference range you want to believe and use as being too high, and as you know having too high TSH levels mean that you may need MORE thyroid medication. So if your TSH is 2.73 and some organizations are saying there should be a cutof using 2.5 as the upper limit, and others saying well really it should be 2.0, and then there are some of US thyroid patients who believe that we don’t feel our best unless it is 1.0 or below…yes there are some shades of grey here.
In terms of dealing with your doctor, I am also a believer in the fact that knowledge is power: So, what I would do, is print out the article here along with the reference ranges that it refers to as another download:
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/tshranges
And to say to your doctor, “You know, I understand that you’re just trying to do your best to treat me, and you are looking at the ranges that the lab lists for references” But I’ve done some research and I’ve learned that there is some disagreement among different organizations and even laboratories themselves as to what constitutes the “right” upper limit for TSH. With your help I’d like to try a trial of Cytomel which is T3 to my regimen and let’s see how that affects my TSH and my Free T3 on the next lab draw. Worst case scenario is that it won’t work, but best case scenario is that it could actually help me feel better. How about we give this a try for 6-8 weeks and see where my levels are then. Because as you know “Dr _____whatever your doctor’s name is” when it’s all said and done lab ranges are just reference points, and I really think it would be useful to do this on a trial basis and then we can re-test meet again, and analyze the results. What do you think?”
You can modify that conversation obviously to fit your needs, but what your’e doing is acknowledging that your doc is trying to go by a standard of practice, but that you also know that there are differences of opinions as to what constitutes “the correct level” and that labs are just one part of it, along with HOW YOU FEEL. And by asking for a trial, any reasonable doctor should be able to go along with this if they have any sense and that way you can both review the results after you make the medication change.
Your T4 looks good to me, but your T3, is definitely low. Most of us need that at the upper end of normal to feel our best.
Your Vitamin D3 is also too low, and although it’s not bad, you want it to be at least 70% of the upper range of normal for the FULL protective benefits it can provide to your immune system, including prevention of breast cancer along with other cancers, protective benefits to prevent osteoporosis, especially if you’re also supplementing calcium etc.
How much Vitamin D3 are you taking and what type? Liquids/Gelcaps or tablets?
And yes, I think you should absolutely pursue something else other than the Armour. I have heard so many stories of people who found their TSH levels going up so very high after the reformulation, along with headaches, and just feeling miserable. There’s a small percentage of folks that I hear from who say they’re doing “fine” on the new Armour, but most that I hear from are NOT. So I think it’s imporrant to get that changed for you right away since you know you’re not feeling well on it.
I think you have a few choices:
1. Ask to go back to Synthroid and ask to add in a trial of Cytomel (T3) This may be your best bet if you don’t want to push the envelope too much with your doc and you know you’ve done well before on Synthroid but your Free T3 was low on this, so adding in the Cytomel for T3 could be a fantastic choice for you.
2. You could also try one of the other natural dessicated thyroid hormones like Nature Throid and/or the Canadian Thyroid. Just like everything else though, some people report doing great on these, while others do not
My personal preference is to find a natural thyroid hormone that works, but right now that involves alot of trial and error because of all the reformulation that has occured, and if you have a doctor that is “stuck” on labs, then your best bet, for your situation since you know you did “ok” on the Synthroid may be to go back to that and just add in the T3 (Cytomel) and see how you do before venturing back into the world of natural thyroid meds. (Which you could always do later if you’re not happy with the Synthroid and T3)
Hope that gives you some things to think about. Just remember when you talk to your doctor and they are “stuck on labs” the labs are just guidelines, YOU need to be treated in terms of labs + HOW YOU FEEL and you may need to remind your doctor about this. I know when I first started this I was very reticent about questioning a doctor’s knowledge or felt badly if I even opened my mouth. Once I learned more about thyroid disease and how little most of the doctors actually knew about it, I became really a great advocate for myself and have no problem at all firing a doctor if he/she is not willing to treat ME as a whole which takes in to account my symptoms, how I’m doing, my lifestyle along with my labs. Within normal limits does not mean OPTIMAL, so just always keep that in mind when you’re at the doctor’s office alone and needing some support:-)
Please keep in touch and let me know how your discussion with your doctor goes and don’t wait too long about changing from the Armour. Many have found that all their hypo symptoms come back and for some it must be like taking no thyroid medicine at all.
Take care, and hope this helps!
- Bethanie
Hello Kay,
Welcome to the group. Thank you so very much for posting your ranges with your labs. This helps tremendously when one of us (just other thyroid patients like yourself) give you feedback.
Anyway, just wanted to say hello, and to let you know that I’m looking over your labs and will give you some of my ideas shortly. Enjoy your evening!
Bethanie!
Karen,
My pleasure. Glad I could help. Please do keep in touch and I’m going to start posting updates on what helps me… Food, exercise, etc…as I believe all are related. It’d be great if everyone could join in and share tips on what works for them also. In the beginning it’s so important to get the thyroid meds regulated etc, but as time goes on it’s the day to day stuff that can also help us feel our best.
Take care, and thanks for your kind comments!
Bethanie
Hi,
Getting some great info on this site. Hoping I can get some suggestions. I have Hashi’s and have had tried different meds over the years. In January I cut out gluten and started taking vitamin D. I felt better than I have in years. I was taking 125 of synthroid. Had my blood work done and here are the results
TSH 2.73 .45-4.50
T4 FREE 1.5 .08-1.7
TPO-AB 254H <35
T3 FREE 2.2 2.0-4.8
VIT D D3 47 20-100
VIT D D2 <4
Being greedy, I thought I could feel even better if I could get my TSH down and my free T3 up. I had been on Armour a few years ago (nothing was making me feel better back then) and I thought that might be the answer. I asked my doc and she thought my labs were fine and did not think I should do anything, but she wrote the prescription for the Armour 1 1/4 grain.
About a week after starting the Armour I started going down hill. It has been 3 weeks and I really feel lousy. At this point I am going to go back on the 125 of synthroid, but I still feel I need some T3. Do you think I should pursue that with my doc (even though she thought my numbers were fine)?
Thanks for any help
Thanks Bethanie! I will be sure to ask for Free T3 & Free T4 test next time. You have been very helpful!!
I hope you have a wonderful week.
Karen
Hi Karen,
Thanks for sending the labs. Your lab doesn’t seem to list the ranges for each item which is very important when looking at results. You may want to call them and see if they can give you a printout which actually lists the ranges for each test. Without the ranges it is hard to see where your results are for any given test.
What I can tell from your labs is that your doctor ordered the TRIIODOTHYRONINE, TOTAL (which is actually a T3 Test, but it is not considered a good test to order these days because the TRIIODOTHYRONINE, TOTAL (T3) is measuring the portion of the thyroid hormone that is bound up or as I say “married” to the proteins in your blood. What you should definitely ask to be tested next time is the FREE T3 or the “Active” portion of the thyroid hormone which is the amount that your body could actually use. Because the other type of hormone that was ordered is not actually “available” for your body, the result isn’t relevant, and so clinicians are now sayign that the most reliable measurement of your clinical thyroid status is to measure the FREE T3, and the FREE T4 and not the Total Levels.
There is alot of misunderstanding I’ve found even AMONG the doctors who treat us in the medical community when they measure the Total T3 instead of the FREE type. If someone is normal, meaning without a thyroid problem, the Total T3 changes in relationship to the levels of the available type of FREE T3, However, if the thyroid is NOT normal, then this fluctuation does not happen, so thats why it is said that measuring the FREE T3 level is a more valid indication of thyroid function, then the total which may not be adaptive in someone who has a thyroid issue. And you wouldn’t be testing unless you thought you had a thyroid issue…
Total T3 levels can go up if you are on oral contraceptives, are pregnant, and/or are taking hormones such as estrogen, however, this same increase is NOT seen in FREE T3 levels in patients generally.
I don’t know what your lab ranges are for Vitamin D, and that is really critical in order to determine where you fall in the range. If you have the ability to get the ranges, then feel free to post the numbers with the ranges for your labs.
Thanks again for updating your lab info.
- Bethanie
Hi Karen,
You are very welcome. Glad I can be of some help:-) Just wanted to let you know that I’m looking over your labs and will send you some comments back here shortly.
– Bethanie
Hey Bethanie,
I don’t know what happened to that message. It was a long one….. I just want to Thank you very much for all your help & support. It is great to know there are other people with the same problems as me & that there are answers. I will definitely ask for the Free T3 & Free T4 on my next blood work up which won’t be until the middle of August.
Here is some history on my labs (I can pull it from a secure website):
06/15/10 08:44 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: 0.0500* F T4: 0.96
05/17/10 08:53 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: 1.68 F T4: 1.12 TRIIODOTHYRONINE, TOTAL: 112
01/19/10 11:26 CompMetab PROTEIN TOTAL BLOOD: 7.0 ALBUMIN BLOOD: 3.9 BILIRUBIN TOTAL BLOOD: 0.5 ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE BLD: 63 SGOT Blood: 26 SGPT BLOOD: 32
01/19/10 11:26 RoutChems Bilirubin Conjugated: 0.1 Nutrition25-HYDROXY D2: 60 eGFRAA: > 60 Glucose Blood: 92 Calcium Blood: 9.0 AN-GAP: 7
05/13/09 15:45 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: 1.19 F T4: 0.90 TRIIODOTHYRONINE, TOTAL: 109
06/11/08 15:07 RoutChems Iron Blood: 117
06/11/08 15:07 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: 0.490 F T4: 0.94
06/08/07 15:40 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: 0.08* F T4: 1.11
07/17/06 09:01 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: 1.04 F T4: 1.51 TRIIODOTHYRONINE, TOTAL: 127
03/16/06 11:13 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: 0.26* F T4: 1.66 TRIIODOTHYRONINE, TOTAL: 156
12/09/05 13:08 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: 6.92* F T4: 1.44 TRIIODOTHYRONINE, TOTAL: 134
08/31/05 12:55 Thyroid THYROID STIM HORMONE: < 0.014* F T4: 4.15* TRIIODOTHYRONINE, TOTAL: 456*
Thanks again!!!!!
Karen
Good Morning Karen,
Just checked and it looks like I’ve responded to all of the messages that I see you’ve posted. If there were new labs that you sent a message about, please send them today and I’ll take a look for you. Hope your day is going well!
- Bethanie
Hi Karen,
I know what you mean. Seems like we do have to jump over lots of hoops as women:-) Perimenopause happens generally when the ovaries are producing less estrogen and is the stage that we go through generally beginning in our 40′s, but could even start earlier, depending upon the individual. But it is refering to the period of time prior to menopause, and it means that you just need to be more aware that many doctors will blame everything on this stage of life, instead of investigating other reasons for certain feelings or conditions that do naturally go along with perimenopause.
For example, fatigue is common in periomenopause, so I’ve talked with women who go to their doctor and tell their doctor they are very fatigued, or exhausted all the time. The doctor, may, because the woman is 43 years old, simply say that it is “normal’ to feel this way and not look further for a cause. There have been many women who report that sometimes issues with the thyroid or other medical issues were ignored or dismissed simply because some of their symptoms fit the “profile” of what happens during perimenopause. So it’s just another thing for us to be aware about so that when you visit your doctor if your intuition (which I think is enhanced during perimenopause. — (smile)) says that there is something not right with you, that we need to do whatever is necessary to find a health care provider who also takes our symptoms seriously and does not brush everything off on periomenopause!
Bethanie,
I sent you another message before the one @ 12:28 pm but I don’t see it. I will check back to see if it somehow appears. I listed the last several labs I had done. Hhmmm, wonder where it went.
Thanks,
Karen
Hi Cindy,
Although I think for many people that the natural dessicated thyroid hormone works better than the synthetic, one thing I’ve learned from talking with thyroid patients is that there is no “perfect” solution for anyone. If someone says they are really doing well with a synthetic thyroid hormone medication, and is “really” doing well, meaning that they feel good, energy level is optimal, and their labs especially the FREE T3 and FREE T4 are in optimal ranges, heart rate is good, cholesterol levels in a good range etc, then I wonder if a change is the best thing…
Now, if someone comes in and says they feel “ok” but not great, and is using a synthetic thyroid hormone, then it’s good to investigate further and see if a full thyroid panel was done by the physician, and also look at other issues like ferritin, Vitamin D levels, and adrenals. So I guess for you it would be important to know your reasons for wanting to change. Are you thinking that you feel ok but could possibly do better on the natural thyroid hormones?
Bethanie,
I forgot to tell you, I am 41. I am not sure if I am peri-menopausal or not…. I still take birth control pills because it helps with my cycle because I have fibroids. The things us women have to put up with….
Thanks,
Karen
Hello all,
I am taking Levothyroxine along with some T3 (Cytomel) and doing well. Initially my doctor put me on Synthroid and it made my heart rate too high and had palpitations, but when I was switched to the Levothyroxine that stopped. I may look into trying one of the natural thyroid medications at some point, but I’m a little afraid to try anything else since the other is working ok for me now. Has anyone switched from the Levothyroxine thyroid to something else? If so what was your experience?
Thank you for reading and for your opinions.
Hi Karen, Hope you are having a good weekend! Yes, it would be a good idea to inform your doctor about the Armour fomulation change. Many of them, even the pharmacists were not aware, and some may still not be aware about the armour reformulation. But google it (armour reformulation) and you’ll see sooooo many reports from patients about the trouble they are having or had when the company changed the fillers, that it will amaze you.
I don’t know why but there seems to be a “standard” where docs will tell you gaining weight is “normal” with aging if they are not experts about hormones, thyroid functions etc. Even if your labs are “within range” I’ve seen many patients who simply do better when adding in something like the T3 (Cytomel) like you’re doing. The issue is not whether or not we’re in range and won’t die tomorrow from having a slightly off kilter thyroid or thyroid labs that are “within range” but still not optimal, but rather many of us feeling “half dead” when things are not optimized.
You said, “I specifically talked to this Dr. about being tired, the weight gain & the thought everything was fine.”
Of course he would, the endos are notorious for being “number watchers” only, and have no interest in seeing how you feel or trying other things in many cases, if your numbers are somewhere within the range, they think you are golden. Even if you feel half dead.
So the next thing that most endos will do, if you feel half dead, is say you must be “depressed” because if you’re “within range” then you could not have an issue, even if changing your thyroid medicine or adding in some more T3 or T4 or whatever the case may be, could help you feel almost 90% or more better.
Sorry, I digressed a bit:-) I could write a book with all the stories I hear from women who are told that they are “fine” when there’s things that absolutely could be done to help. I don’t know your age, but heaven help us all in the peri-menopausal period. That’s when no matter what our troubles, everything is “normal” and to be expected during peri-menopause. There was a story I read from one of the other gals here whose doc told her to eat less, exercise more when she gained 40 pounds over a couple of years because she was peri-menopausal. Turned out she had a brain tumor! (Not to say anyone’s story is typical or that most of us are running around with brain tumors– LOL, just trying to make the point, that if you’re not dropping dead today or tomorrow from a thyroid level that is so out of range that it is life threatening, in many docs minds you are “fine” and they’re not interested in trying to figure things out.
So I’m glad that you went to an internal medicine doctor and that he at least thought about adjusting your dose. Hormones are like a delicate balancing act. Tweaking the dose and meds can have excellent effects, but tweaking these things isn’t necessarily profitable for doctors. So in most cases, we’re left to find out the subtleties on our own, but the good thing is that we learn as a group of patients by sharing, in my opinion, to become better advocates for ourself.
Ok, back to your labs: In my experience your TSH being lower is a good thing and something that will naturally happen once you tweak your dose. I have heard really good results from others who have added in Cytomel to their medication plan.
What I’m not seeing in your labs are the FREE T3 levels and from your post I can’t tell if your doctor did just the T4 or the FREE T4.
You need both the FREE T3 and FREE T4 done in order to properly monitor your dose. They also need to check for thyroid antibodies if they haven’t done so as that may be an issue as well.
And, the doctors should be checking for both your serum iron, along with ferritin levels because that affects the thyroid as well A Vitamin D test is also helpful as many of us with thyroid issues have some immune issues which are affecting the thyroid and the Vitamin D level is important because if it’s LOW or within range and LOW, which most of us are, then we need to know that and get it up to the higher normal range (ie: 70% of the upper limit of normal is where the Vitamin D needs to be). Finally, adrenal issues can also affect the thyroid, and feeling exhausted etc. Let me know if you need more help with what that is and what to ask for and/or how to test etc.
Also, if you can when you get your labs and/or post them again please post the ranges: so that it would be liked this:
TSH 0.0500 (Range: .5 – 2.50) or whatever the range for your lab is
This lets us see where you are relative to your labs scale.
Congrats on all your hard work and the exercise. I’m glad you’re seeing some improvement, but if you’re still exhausted, then see if you can do some “tweaking” with your new doctor.
If your doc wants to switch you to a natural thyroid medication instead of Levothyroxine, that may be a good thing to try. Based on patient feedback I would tend to want to ask my doc for either Nature Throid or the Canadian Thyroid Erfa Thyroid which is said to be almost like the old “Armour”. Those are both natural dessicated thyroid medications. You can also have natural thyroid compounded from a compounding pharmacy but that’s more expensive and sometimes there are issues too with compounded meds, depending upon the fillers that your compounding pharmacy uses.
I’ve gone on and no enough I’m sure:-) Let me know if you have questions..there’s a lot of good knowledge here and someone I’m certain knows lots more than me. Would love to hear how you progress and what you decide to do.
Hugs,
Bethanie
Thanks for responding Bethanie! I will let my doctor know, I don’t know if he is aware of the reformulation. I have gained 30 lbs. in 5 years and my endocrinologist thought it had nothing to do with my thyroid. I was hyper & took the RAI pill in 2005. I have been on 125mcg of Levothyroxine for probably 2 years. I had no idea that my symptoms were related to my thyroid. I am sensitive to heat & cold & I am very tired all the time. I last saw my Endo Dr. on 5/17/10 with my levels being TSH 1.68 & T4 1.12. I specifically talked to this Dr. about being tired, the weight gain & the thought everything was fine. I went to an internal medicine Dr. & the increased my dosage. I asked to be put back on regular synthroid which he did. I am on 125mcg but also on 25mcg Cytomel. I have lost 4 lbs. in 21 days. I am still tired but am glad to be loosing some weight. I work out 3-4 times a week by lifting weights & haven’t seen many results but know I can not quit. I have worked out off and on for 20 years. I drink water all day long & only drink one soda a day & eat fairly healthy so I was at my whits end with my endo dr. and hopefully I will continue to see results. My current levels are TSH 0.0500 & T4 0.96 & my Internal Medicine Dr. said that was good & wanted me to stay in that range. I hope I have covered everything.
Thanks again,
Karen
Hello Karen, There area many, many people who had or or having trouble with the reforumulation. Some are not, but from what I’ve heard, those who are doing ok with the new Armour, may have had to either increase their dose, and/or crush the tabs and add some sugar in to help with the absorption.
One thing to watch for if you do change is that there seems to be an inordinate amount of complaints from patients that I’ve read about who are reporting heart palpitations with the new Armour. This could be from any number of things including 1) If the medication is not being absorbed well, due to the increase in cellulose and decrease in sugar, that the person is actually hypothyroid, or that there is some sensitivity to the new formulation or a combination of the above or even other reasons. There are some reporting that their TSH levels have drastically risen when using the newly formulated Armour. While again others report that the are truly doing fine with it. So it’s a mixed bag, but definitely not the same old Armour that for years so many thyroid patients did well on.
Also, to answer your question about how the doctor writes the prescription. No, I’m afraid that’s not so, it doesn’t matter what the doctor writes on the prescription pad, the “old” Armour is gone and I’m not sure that the company, Forrest Labs cares at all. Obviously, they are having so many complaints about this, but just an opinion–I think Armour was changed because it is now “cheaper” to make, and the power of the dollar outways the power of trying to have a good product.
I’m trying to follow all the posts here and there are a few Karens listed, so please excuse me for asking, but could you please let me know what other thyroid medicines you have tried as I may be able to give you some addional ideas on what to try if I know what you have already done.
Also, if you post back, please list what happened with the Other Meds; For example:
1. Tried Synthroid: (TSH levels still too high, headaches, and weight gain)
2. Medication #2 (Free T3 was up slightly, Free T4…etc…etc..
I wish there was another company who could re-make the original Armour for all of us!
Gina,
Appreciate you writing to help me with the info on the Hashimotos. I read some thing about it after your note, and it does make me feel somewhat better knowing that my thyroid problem may not be a lost cause. I’m going to try the selenium and will research some other things to support adrenals etc. My deepest appreciation to you for helping me on my thyroid questions.
Armour reformulated. I am not currently taking Armour but my Dr. said he may want to switch me to this but I am concerned about the reformulation. I have read several post that say if your Dr. writes on the RX Thyroid-P you can get the old formula. Is this true. I am tired of feeling tired all the time & gaining weight. I switched doctors who finally told me I was not on the correct dosage. I just want some relief. Any suggestions on Armour is greatly appreciated.
Hi Stephanie,
Hashimotos is an autoimmune condition where the body is basically attacking itself. It can be confusing to find out about the disease and to be told there’s “nothing” that can be done, but I’m not sure I totally buy into that philosophy from doctors.
With Hashimotos it is very important to pay attention to how you feel, because if your doctor only relies on the lab results, then because of the nature of Hashimotos, you can be hypo one day and hyper the next. So, paying attention to your symptoms is important. It’s good to keep a journal/log of what medication you’re taking, how much, and how you feel from day to day.
Also, there are some studies showing that the supplement selenium can be helpful in reducing the inflammation that is associated with Hashimotos. So you may want to do some reading on that. And other physicians who are thyroid experts appear to think that if you get someone on the proper dose of thyroid medication, and everything else is balanced ie: ferritin, adrenals, etc, that you can stop or slow the progression of Hashimotos considerably. The end result is typically that the thyroid will stop functioning, but there are definitely things you can to to help yourself, and it’s not time to throw up your hands and thing that there’s nothing to be done as your doctor told you. Keep on asking questions, your best ally in the process is going to be you, wanting and needing to know more, about the disease, your body, and what you can do to help yourself.
Karen,
Thanks a million for helping with the information about getting the Nature Throid. I’m learning that we have to be extremely assertive when dealing with pharmacies and such. I was just told that it was “very hard to get” and the pharmacists in my area tried to push Armour on me. Guess that means I have to go pharmacist “shopping” too. Geez…not only do we have to search high and low for a doctor who knows about thyroid stuff, but now the pharmacists….. What’s great is that now, thanks to you, I have more info on what to ask and I can call RLC Labs myself to follow up.
And the info you posted about the cornstarch is also priceless! You’re a gem, thanks for sharing that and I had no idea that there was a way we could actually “test” for that without having to send something to the lab to be analyzed. Very good knowledge to have.
Thanks again for the help and I hope you have a wonderful day.
Hello all,
I found this website after searching for info about why Armour changed and have been busy reading all the posts. Found out that I have thyroid antibodies and my doctor says I have Hashimotos but he says there’s nothing he can do about it. I am a bit confused about all this and exhausted all the time because I didn’t know the Armour changed and I guess that’s the reason why I feel like before I started on the thyroid medications.
Is anyone else here have experience with Hashimotos? And is it true that I can’t do anything about it?
Hi, All,
I live in a suburb of Houston, TX. Nature-Throid is available in one-grain tablets, but not every pharmacy stocks it. Worse, not all wholesalers are aware that it’s available, so they tell pharmacists that they can’t get it.
The good news? RLC Labs, which makes Nature-Throid and Westhroid, is very different from Forest when it comes to customer service. They will happily give you a number your pharmacist can call to get ordering information–and work with their wholesaler–or the number of a pharmacy in (I think) Arizona that will ship to you. You just need to stay on the line and not hang up and call the Nature-Throid info line, which I think doesn’t have that information. Their “contact us” page is at: http://www.nature-throid.com/contactUs.asp
They have a well-deserved reputation for working with patients. They’ll answer questions, help you find their product, and just generally be nice, which I find to be a wonderful change from listening to doctors who lie about lab results and/or are wedded to synthetic T4-only treatment. My local pharmacist is a wonderful guy, and he set out to research whether he could get Nature-Throid for me and other patients as soon as I told him about the issues with the new Armour. If you have a pharmacist you know and trust, that’s a good place to start. But RLC will absolutely help you if you need them to.
Good luck, all!
Karen
P.S. For anyone else who had allergy problems with the reformulated Armour, don’t just assume it’s the cornstarch. I’ve found that I can’t take anything with microcrystalline cellulose (which is unfortunately in a lot of pills). Unfortunately, most of them also list starch, which could be cornstarch. Per my new doc, you can test for cornstarch by placing a pinch of it under a Band-Aid on soft skin (inner arm, stomach) and leaving it overnight. If there’s a welt in the morning, he says, you know it’s the cornstarch. When and if my immune system is ever back to normal, I’m going to check, but right now, I’d bet money (if I had any) that it’s the microcrystalline cellulose. It’s in everything I’ve ever reacted to. I now question if I have any medication allergies at all, or if it’s just the damn filler.
Hello Gloria, Anytime you have a question, just ask away. Not that I’ll always know the answer (grin) but hey we’re all in this together and heaven knows I’ve had tons of help with my thyroid issues.
I use the Cypress Iron http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron is the link directly to the product. I think Kelly, one of the moderator here set it up so that if we put in the name of it, it will automatically take you to the right product page so you can either order it or buy it locally. It was very expensive for me to get it locally, so I just order it. But I like it very much. It does not upset my stomach unlike the ones I was first prescribed which made me so sick I quit taking them. These are very gentle. I take the iron at night before going to bed and that seems to work very well for me.
And I sympathize with you about your hair. I know it helps to get the thyroid dose fixed up, and until we get that right it seems nothing helps. But, something I added that seemed to “support” my hair getting healthier once I stablized on the Armour, was to add in Biotin supplements. I get mine from GNC but you can probably find the online as well.
If you can think of anything else I can help you with..just say the word.
Joan,
I’m happy for you that the Armour is working out. Sure wish I could get it to work for me. Would you mind letting me know what type of iron you are taking and how much? Also were you taking the same amount of Synthroid as you are the new Amour? Before it was changed the Armour did wonders for me. With the change I’m having difficulties focusing, staying awake, and my hair is falling out again. Maybe I need to increase my dose too. I’ll talk to my doctor about that next time, but I also wanted to see which iron you were using because I’m supposed to be taking iron supplements but they upset my stomach.
I’ve been on armour for the past few weeks after changing from Synthroid. It was a fairly easy change for me, and honestly, my body has adapted with few issues, except it seems like I am getting some return of hypo symptoms and I may need to increase my Armour Dose. I am taking 1 grain of Armour twice a day, once first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, the 2nd time around 2pm in the afternoon. My anxiety is less, and I feel like I have less muscle pain and more energy than while on the Synrthoid.
I am hoping that this is a step in the right direction. I am also taking iron supplements to try to raise my ferritin level. My physician also wants me to start using some kind of adrenal support.
Thank you very much for everyone’s help. Having the right thyroid information has been such a blessing for me after several years of traveling from physician to physician and being told things were “fine”. Even though I had every hypothyroid symptom in the book and then some, along with times when I may have even transitioned from hypo to hyper, but things are finally looking up. Knowing that there was a reason why my body went hypo to hyper has helped more than you all know.
Jessica and Danielle,
I am in Austin Texas and one of the Walgreen Pharmacies in my area has some Nature Throid but only the 2 grain tablets. Since I take the one grain tablets, I use a pill spitter to break them in half. The CVS in my area doesn’t have any Nature Throid but they said they’ve been able to keep Armour in stock for about the past month. I wanted to tell them geez….no wonder you can get the Armour Thryoid….for most of us it DOESN’T work anymore. It is super frustrating. After being on hold at Walgreens the lady also told me that the Nature Throid is “hard to get” but they could offer Armour as an alternative. I told her I was “not interested” been there, done that. The pharmacy person at CVS didn’t even know what Nature Throid was and asked me if it was a prescription… Oh well, guess we have to be the ones that stick together so we know what works and what doesn’t.
For now, the pill spitter works fine for me. It’s also less expensive because I get 2 dosages basically for the same price of one.
I have the same question. If anyone is using the Nature Throid could you please let me know what city you are in and which pharmacy has it? I am trying to make up a list of places that have it in stock. I have tried CVS, Walgreens and Costo and can’t get it locally, but I know there are some of you who must be able to find the Nature Throid Medicine now. Thanks in advance for your help!
Karen,
I’m glad that you’re doing well onteh Nature-Throid. I’m just switching this week. Wish me luck, and I hope I will be able to report that my hypothyroid symptoms have improved as well.
I know exactly what you mean about having to be our own detectives. Funny enough when I first started having problems, I had typed up a long list of all my symptoms to give to my doctor thinking this would help him. LOL, all it did was make him think that because I was peri-menopausal, I must be depressed and he wasn’t at all interested in checking out my thyroid!
Also, I have a question for you if you don’t mind. Could you let me know if you are able to find the Nature Throid in your town? Do they limit you to a 30 day supply or can you get a 3 month supply where you live? I’m still having trouble finding it locally. I can order it but just curious if other thyroid patients are able to get it without having to order
Thank you, and congrats on feeling better. That’s really good to hear!
Just a follow-up: I’ve switched to Nature-Throid. My hyperthyroid symptoms are gone, my hypothyroid symptoms are abating, and I no longer itch all over. The dosage may need some adjusting, but I am doing so much better now that I’m off the reformulated Armour.
It sucks that we all have to be detectives and try to figure out what’s going on with our thyroid medication and why.
Greetings to all who’ve posted!
After reading all the info here I’m almost certain I’m in the minority, but I’m doing alright on the new Armour Thyroid medication. I did however, have to increase my dosage by 1/4 of a grain in order to feel alright, but it still seems to be working for me. [Crossing my fingers that it stays that way]. I don’t take mine sublingually– I swallow my tablets and do take them first thing in the morning at least one hour before eating. When I increased my dose what I did was to take a 2nd small dose (1/4 grain) in the early afternoon, about 2 hours after lunch and this has kept me stable. My TSH levels, along with my Free T3 and Free T4 are all not only within range, but in the optimal range. I wish I knew why some people do alright with it and others are not. I sure empathize with everyone who is struggling with Armour Thyroid, but I just wanted to drop in and let you all know that for some thyroid patients, it is still working. It’d sure be nice if they brought back the “old” kind though, as I’m sure from the sounds of things that it worked better for a lot of you, and even I would have to take less of it if the old version came back.
Hi Marcia,
Add me to the list of those having trouble with the new Armour! I found this site as well through searching for a solution for my hypothyroid symptoms that have returned. I got a tip from the comments here about crushing the tablets or tablet between 2 spoons and adding some sugar to it. I did that for a while and it did help my symptoms somewhat. I also unfortunately had to add some Cytomel which is the T3 and I take that every morning with my Armour Thyroid Now. Adding in the Cytomel for me has worked so that I am having improvements in how I feel, but I wish I just had to take one tablet instead of combining things together. I say this because the old Armour worked so well for me for almost 9 years. I’m not sure what we can do about Forest Labs, I know there are hundreds if not thousands who’ve called to complain.
I may try the Canadian thyroid just to see how it works for me because I’ve been reading that some people feel as if it’s like the old Armour! Please update with what you decide to do and if you try adding some sugar to your Armour, could you please let me know how/if that works in your case? I take mine sublingually btw.
Kind Regards,
Caroline
I had been on Armour since mid 1990s and did great on it! Now T4 and T3 levels are low with hypothyroid symptoms. Obviously the < of dextrose is quite a problem for my absorption levels. I found this site through searching how I could send an email to Forest Labs for my personal complaint. I know there are hundreds like me out there and hoping that there is a way for us to personally complain to the appropriate department.. I know their changes are less expensive to manufacture than using more dextrose however the cost is high for us as patients and in the long run they will lose business through these changes. I tried contacting them by phone but only was referred to another number with no human being on the other line. Surely they are aware of the problems these changes have caused! I would like to think that they care. I wonder! How can we as patients together voice our negative resulting symptoms on this new Armour so we might influence the lab to put the dextrose back in the formulation? Any ideas?
Hi, All,
I have Hashimoto’s and, like many, was miserable on synthetic T4 alone. My doctor switched me to Armour, and things were great until recently, even though he has gone from looking at labs AND symptoms to just labs over time. I had enough of the old stuff left to last until March, but when I started on the reformulated stuff, I began itching all over and my normal allergies to some soaps and detergents were out of control. I started using baking soda for shampoo, soap, and laundry detergent, and I got no more rashes but still itch all over.
My hypothyroid symptoms also returned, and I do know the difference between hypo- and hyperthyroid symptoms, even though both can cause fatigue and hair loss. My mental acuity is lousy, I’m forgetful, I’m cold all the time, I’m constipated, I’m depressed, and I have menstrual cramps again. But my labs are out of whack. My TSH is .02, but my FTI indicates hypothyroidism. My fT3:rT3 ratio is 24.4, so theoretically fine, but my fT3 is elevated outside the normal range. My thyroid peroxidase is 400 times the highest normal level plus 11, and my thyroglobulin antibodies are at 20. But my fT3 is at the highest end of the normal range. My T4 is at the lower end of the range. So, if you believe my labs, I’m hypothyroid and hyperthyroid.
If you believe my doctor, I’m hyperthyroid but want more thyroid medication to lose weight or “feel good” (because diarrhea, heart palpitations, insomnia, and anxiety feel so terrific) or to lose weight. After telling him I had worked my ass off to lose the 50 pounds I lose, he charted “unexplained weight loss” and won’t back down from that charting error. So I found a new doctor–who listened to me until he got lab results showing my TSH is .02. Now he thinks I’m hyperthyroid, too.
So, the doctors say hyper, my symptoms say hypo, and my labs say both.
I think my labs are right.
I’m seeing a lot of people on several sites reporting that they are having hypothyroid symptoms with the new formulation, but they’re listing some that can be either (fatigue, hair loss), some that are hypo (weigh gain, depression, constipation, feeling cold, low body temps), and some that are hyper (heart palpitations and anxiety).
My theory is that the reformulated Armour either has a T3:T4 ratio problem OR there’s an issue with the T3 being easier to absorb or the T4 being harder to absorb. So people who convert T4 to T3 are lowering their doses, but people who don’t are having hypothyroid symptoms with heart palpitations and anxiety–and frighteningly, some of them are raising, even doubling or more, their doses without talking to their doctors or pharmacists.
So what explains the hypo/hyperthryoid symptoms–and my labs? There’s only one thing I can think of: People who take the reformulated Armour are getting too much T3 when they take it, causing a spike, but as their bodies use the T3, they are forced to rely on the T3 they convert from the medication’s T4. And if they don’t convert it well (as I don’t), they experience hypothyroid symptoms. I think there are some of us who are cycling through hyperthyroidism to hypothyroidism every day.
I’ve left a message for Forest asking for a call back to discuss this and talked to my pharmacist, who thinks it makes great sense. I see my new doctor again on Tuesday. He has been supposed to have been researching Nature-Throid since my last visit, and we’re in agreement, at least, that I can’t take Armour. I’ve agreed to try whatever dose he wants to give me of an alternative that includes T3 and T4, and I figure that, while he may not believe me now, once the reformulated Armour clear my system, we can test again.
If I’m not taking enough and he won’t give it to me, or if he wants to go for synthetic T4 only, I guess it’s back to doctor shopping.
Anyway, I wanted to share my experience, labs, and theory–because if I’m right, then it is dangerous to increase your dose of the new Armour to address your symptoms, especially hypothyroid if you’re one of the people who doesn’t convert T4 to T3 well. Changing to a new med rather than taking more might be a better option–but definitely don’t adjust upward on the new Armour if any of your labs or symptoms point to hyperthyroidism.
I know it sounds crazy to talk about someone being both–but nothing else explains the symptoms and labs that others are reporting and I’m experiencing. Any thoughts?
Hello,
I had a terrible time getting my Reverse T3 issue with my thyroid worked out. But finally, after so many issues I am doing fine. I had to take just regular T3…no T4 and my last labs showed that it looks like the Reverse T3 issue is ok now. I’m not sure what my doctor will want to do during my next visit, but if he wants to put me on a T3/T4 thyroid medication I am going to ask for one of the natural ones to try.
Hi Carla,
Once you get your thyroid optimized it can definitely help to lower your cholesterol levels. And Here’s some info on Reverse T3 that may help you.
Reverse T3: What Does it Mean? – Having high Reverse T3 which can occur when you’re either under alot of stress or you have deficiencies of certain vitamins including: Vitamin D, Selenium, Zinc, and possibly Vitamin A. I’ve heard it explained that the high Reverse T3 acts as a barrier, preventing the thyroid hormones from entering the cells, and if you have a doctor who actually tests for Reverse T3, this is a good thing because having a high Reverse T3 along with symptoms of being hypothyroid, could mean that you are clinically hypothyroid even though your Free T3 and Free T4 are normal.
So, if you think of the reverse T3 level as the gatekeeper, which prevents the active hormones from being able to enter the cells, it explains why so many people are told their thyroid is “normal” when in actuality what it could mean is that the doctor just didn’t do complete thyroid testing.
Treatment for high reverse T3 usually involves taking a compounded time released T3 medication only, until such time that your Reverse T3 comes back down. At that point, you can speak to your doctor about using a combined T3/T4 Medication like one of the natural dessicated thyroid medications: IE: Armour Thyroid, Nature-Throid, Westhroid, or the Canadian version, Erfa thyroid. From what I’m hearing from alot of other thyroid patients, Armour is not working as well now as it used to be before the manufacturer reformulated it.
If I can help further, please just post. Good luck!
Hi all,
So I’d like to get some help with my cholesterol and thyroid if possible. I have very high LDL cholesterol and low HDL. Is there some way to raise the HDL cholesterol and lowering LDL without taking statin medications? My doctor wants me to go on the statins but I don’t think I want to go that route at all.
Also, I also have normal Free T3, and Free T4 thyroid levels. But my Reverse T3 was high. What should I be doing when asking the doctor for assistance in bringing my thyroid back into a good range?
Good news to report on Nurse Practitioner Visit!!!!
Hello to all you fellow thyroid patients. So I went to a new health care provider this week, she was a new graduate Nurse Practitioner, and she was actually interested in my symptoms and how hormones and everything relates. First off, unlike other doctors who said my ferritin was normal (mine was 13 with a range of 10-191); She said that I would likely feel really wiped out and since I exercise alot, and am training for a marathon, she said in the next 6 months when it’s marathon time, unless I addressed the ferritin issue, I would likely not have enough energy to run the race. So that was one big plus for her. She understood the difference between “within normal limits” and “optimal. I was so happy to hear that, but so shocked to hear someone actually say that as a new graduate, that I almost fell off my chair. LOL.
She was also open to doing all of the thyroid tests that I asked for, but did refer me to someone else for thyroid follow up as she said she was not an expert on thyroid disorders, but the great thing was that she willingly ordered the necessary tests! I may need some input from you all on my thyroid testing, so I’ll get those and post later, but wanted to give you all some good news in that there are some health care providers who “get it”!
Greetings to everyone,
I’ve been struggling with thryoid issues for the past 20 years. Initially, I was hyperthyroid, and then, hypothyroid. I found out I had Hashimotos Autoimmune Thyroiditis back in 1998, and became very ill with the typical thyroid symptoms that you all discuss. Was on Synthroid, but that didn’t make anything better, got worse, and changed to Armour Thyroid. Last Summer things started getting worse again, and I luckily found out about the reformulation otherwise I wouldn’t have known what was the matter. Now I’m getting the new Armour and my family practitoner orders the T3, Thyroxine Free, ANA Antibody, Thyroglobulin Antibody and a microsomal antibody. In the past I’ve never had an issue with my insurance covering tets, but this time they are saying that the tests aren’t medically necessary and they won’t cover it. I’m being told that the insurance needs evidence that the tests are necesary for my condition.
I’m currently appealing the insurance company’s decision but wanted to write in to say thank you all for sharing your information as I will use this in my letter to the insurance company. If anyone knows of any additional info that may be helpful for me to have in formulating my reply, I’d be grateful. Thank you very much.
Hello Bettina,
I think there may be a lot of thyroid patients who feel like we have defective batches of Armour Thyroid medication at this point. I know when the “new” Armour came out, I had very bad headaches, no energy and felt awful. There are many of us who used to take Armour who think it has something to do with the filler change that Forest Labs did. I never really thought about fillers in medicines before, but if you’re body can’t break down or utilize the medication, it’s like it’s “locked” up instead of being made available to the cells. Some people I know are saying that they crush the new Armour, and add a little bit of sugar or honey to it as well as increased their dose (with their doctor’s permission on changing the dose of course) and that it seemed to help them. That didn’t work for me, but for some they say it works well.
The other thing that’s very noticeable from the “old” Armour is that the “old” version used to have a sweet taste, while the new one does not. That’s why some thyroid patients are adding in the sugar or honey, because the sugar supposedly could possibly help with making the medication more easily absorbed by the body.
I’m sorry you had to go through this situation with your medication for your thyroid not working well either. I’m glad you brought it to the attention of your pharmacist.
Armour’s not the only thyroid medicine that was reformulated. Nature Throid which is made by RLC labs was also changed. I’m not sure but I think that Westhroid which is made by the same company would also be affected. I’m on the Nature brand now but I still have some of the old tablets so I’m not sure what I’m going to do once I run out.
Glad you still had some older thyroid medicine that helped you and hope you are feeling better.
I recently got a defective batch of (reformulated?) Armour Thyroid, batch 45901-9, with expiration date 5/11/10. Within a few days, I had all the low thyroid symptoms (muscle/joint pain, lethargic, hungry). This continued for a week. Fortunately, I had some of my old prescription left, and took it again. I felt fine the same day, and all the low thyroid symptoms went away.
My pharmacist had to be convinced to call Forest Labs, he even said that recalls come from the manufacturer, not from the patients! He wanted me to call, of course Forest Labs just referred me back to my doctor. Maybe I should complain to CDC?
I did notice that the Armour Thyroid had very little “stinky meat” odor, like the old Armour did. Another blog mentioned that is a sign of a defective batch.
Chris,
That is fantastic news!!! I’m so happy to hear that you’ve found a physician who is willing to help you get the proper tests. Great, great, job at being persistent and asking for what you need. It is so hard I know sometimes to have the strength to do it, but you can and you did, so hooray for you.
Just a thought on the cholesterol meds—if your thyroid is not well managed this can cause the cholesterol to go up as well. There’ve been many patients who have seen their cholesterol levels return to normal by just properly treating their thyroid. Obviously other things can help like diet/exercise etc, but the thyroid can be a biggie when it comes to cholesterol.
Also, not sure if you’ve tried it but I’ve found that taking a good quality magnesium supplement can help with anxiety and help with blood pressure naturally. What I’ve been told is that it’s better to use magnesium glycinate (sp?) or magnesium gluconate instead of anything that is called magnesium carbonate. Apparently easier for the body to absorb. You can research this online but it is really good for anxiety. It’s also great in preventing migraines and helping with muscle cramps. Used to get really bad ones at night which don’t happen anymore since I take magnesium. The one thing you can look out for when your dosing magnesium is to start out slowly and increase your dose gradually as it can cause loose stools. But it’s great for us hypothyroid patients who struggle with constipation, and if the stool gets too loose I just back off a bit on the magnesium.
And to answer your question, I haven’t yet tried the Efra but I may do that sometime to see how it compares to the Nature Throid, Maybe I’ll wait to see what you think about it after you try it, so see, you are already helping me as well if we can trade notes we will hopefully both be feeling great.
I have a question for anyone who could please comment. I am also having heart palpitations after changing to the Nature Throid product. I also had them with the new Armour, but never had any issues with the old Armour. My doseage has stayed the same. Has anyone else found that eating some food with the thyroid medication may help “slow” down how quickly it is absorbed? I know we are supposed to take thyroid medication on an empty stomach but I’m just wondering if maybe the problem with my heart palpitations is that for some reason the natural thyroid medicine is too strong or something.
Thanks Louisa,Kathy and Linda for sharing your stories. It is nice to hear how others have coped with this issue and have found some success. Nice to know it is not all in my head. No one I’ve asked thinks I am depressed. My husband chuckled and said -no he does not think I am depressed.
The New Dr. office called with my labs today. Said my TSH was elevated and I need to up my Synthroid from 88 mcg to 100mcg.
And that my triglycerides where out of whack and I need to go on Tricore to lower them. My tri were 640 and should be below 150. I did not get the others values because I requested for a copy of the lab and they are going to send it to me. I’ll post when I get them in the mail. UUUGH!
I do have Great news though! I decided just to go ahead and go to a pre-scheduled appt for my high blood pressure and I asked him to prescribe Erfa and he said no problem!!! (That is not what his nurse told me when I called and asked if the Dr was open to prescribing Armour. She said he would not.) I told him about that and he said no one asked him.
I also called the new dr and requested they call the lab an ask for a Free T3 test also. (The lab said they keep the blood sample for one week- in case other tests are needed.) No response from the new Dr office yet.
My family Dr the one who wrote the prescript for Erfa wrote me a lab sheet for 4 weeks after I start the Erfa and only requested TSH and Free T4. I called them too and asked for Free T3 and now a lipid panel. Just heard back from them. He said ok. So, if the new Dr agrees to the Free T3 I will have a reading before and after I begin Erfa. I really hope Erfa Thyroid works for me.
I am not planning to take any new drugs till I can get this figured out.
Hope the anxiety doesn’t get too bad.
Anybody have suggestions about how to transition to Erfa? Wean off or down on Synthroid or stop on the day I start Thyroid? Dr didn’t say one way or the other.
Linda, have you tried Thyroid from Erfa? Some others have said it is like the old Armour, but not everybody has liked it.
Enough about me. How is everybody else doing? Thank you for sharing your tips and your support. Your support helped me to have the courage to request additional labs and ask for Natural Desiccated Thyroid. Thank you.
Chris,
I’ve been in a similar situation with doctors. And just because a doctor prescribes a medication for you (doesn’t mean you should just take it without knowing the possible risks/benefits etc.) I was hypothyroid for a long time, but after going to at least 4 different doctors and being told that my thyroid was “ok” and that there was no problem, I went to see a thyroid surgeon who offered free consults. Well, he said I had a large goiter and it would need to be removed and that any competent medical student should have easily been able to diagnose it. Not to say this is what’s happening with you but in my case my previous doctors were not listening to me.. I was having shortness of breath because the goiter was growing, and no one ever tested me for the thyroid antbodies which I had, which were causing my lab tests to be not reliable. And because I wasn’t getting properly tested, the problem went on way way too long. Anyway, what I wanted to share with you is that prior to my finding out that I really did have a thyroid problem, I was given prescriptions for anti-depressants as well. Never took them because I knew I wasn’t depressed…I was just in a depressing situation being so sick and not getting the right diagnosis for a long time. I didn’t need anti-depressants, I just needed one physician to properly diagnose the issue.
Once I had the thyroid removed, (because I was misdiagnosed for so long) it had grown to the point where I had to have it out, then I had another battle. The surgeon wanted to put me on Synthroid but I felt so awful on that medication that I had to find yet another doctor. I’m now on Nature Throid which is working fine for me but just know that just because a doctor prescribes something doesn’t mean that it is right or ok for you to take. For me it’s been hard because I can’t find Nature Throid locally and have to order it from a pharmacy in AZ. But it’s better than being miserable. Sending best wishes for your progress and I hope you can find a good thyroid doctor.
Hello Chris,
Thanks for the update, and I’m so sorry that your doctor isn’t helping much. It’s absolutely horrible that if they can’t figure things out that they automatically reach for the prescription pad and say you’re depressed. Unfortunately, it’s a sad reality that most physicians just do not receive enough education on thyroid issues. Even the endocrinologists who may be well versed at treating diabetic patients, are not known for having a good knowledge base for thyroid issues
And if your doctor feels that only testing t3 total and free t4 along with TSH is all that’s necessary…I’m sorry to be so blunt but he’s wrong. You need Both Free T3 and Free T4!
If he says Free T3 is not on his lab slip, it’s a simple fix. He can write the lab order on a regular prescription pad and problem is solved:-)
And I really must share with you..you are not in the minority when you say Synthroid doesn’t work for you. Right now you may not need more labs, but you may need another doctor who will actually listen and who is willing to let you try another type of thyroid medication. And then hopefully the new physician will be more educated and will run follow up labs for you with Free T3 and Free T4.
Most thyroid patients do best on one of the natural dessicated thyroid medications because they have both T3 and T4 in them. I’m sorry to be blunt, but it’s your life and your body. And yes, who wouldn’t be bummed if you don’t feel well and the medication that they’re prescribing isn’t giving you the right hormones that you need and/or makes you feel worse.
It’s amazing that a doctor will prescribe Synthroid which is a T4 only hormone, and expect your body to convert it to T3, because the majority of people with thyroid issues can’t convert the T4 to T3. And T3 is the “active” form of thyroid hormone.
If you need help in knowing what questions to ask when looking for a new doctor, let me know. You’re not alone, you’re not crazy, and although I’m just another fellow thyroid patient, if your gut says you’re not depressed…I absolutely believe you. It’s totally depressing to deal with an uneducated physicians and have to not only try to get well, but to find someone competent to treat you. The good news is that it can be done….
Hang in there…there’s lots of knowledge out there from fellow patients who are willing to share and to help. So post if you need something or even if you just want to vent or need support. Heaven knows I’ve been there too…
Sorry, I meant to say free t3 is NOT listed on the lab form.
Well, I went to Dr. appt today. He thinks I am depressed and wants me to start taking Celexa. He is also going to send me for labs, but feels the only thing you need to monitor hypothyroid is t4 and free t4. Come back and see him in 4 to 6 weeks. I am so bummed. Of course I am sad. Synthroid is not working for me. I stayed on it because of my high trig. He said he would do a full panel thyroid test. He ordered TSH, t3 total and t4 free. Does anybody know if these tests will show free t3. Free t3 is listed on the lab form.
I really don’t want to take the depression meds. I don’t feel sad and weepy, I feel not well. Any thoughts?
I cannot even believe how truly terrible I feel!!!
After 3 years of doc visits and medical tests for everything from arthritis, to high cholesterol, every kind of stomach disorder, brain fog, brain fog at 45 that was soooo bad I really thought I had Alzheimers and fibromyalgia. I FINALLY diagnosed myself with Hypothyroidism and wrote my DO a three page letter begging to be tested for it. The test results said I was SLIGHTLY hypo. SLIGHTLY…with all those symptoms?? I was initially put on generic Synthroid with awful effects then Synthroid that did absolutley NOTHING. Once again I researched myself and came upon lots and lots of positve information on Armour but I took over a year and several doc’s to get a script for it. But, alas…I got it and found out I wasn’t totally insane after all. After about a week the first thing I noticed was that I was NOT in extreme pain when I got out of bed and my feet hit the ground. I felt like an arthritic 90 year old every morning trying to get to the bathroom so the first day the pain was gone I thought it was a fluke. Within about a month I felt like a new person and went off all the other meds. I continued to feel terrific and could not believe how that I could be intelligent again, I felt like such a loser for so long.
Then the “UNANNOUNCED FORMULATION CHANGE” it all went downhill within just a few weeks. I asked my endo to give me a script for Nature Throid and have been on that now for about a month and I am sooooo SAD to say that it’s not working either. I started to research that too and I think they may have done some sort of reformulation as well.
Is this a conspiracy??? I use all my very, very limited energy just trying to do the essentials every day but I am really going to try to call Forrest today because this is just plain torture. We need to do something to get some media attention. Maybe if we started a patient protest in every city on an agreed upon day with as many people as possible at Forrest headquarters then people in major city and a designated TV station to get attention.
Please everyone…..let’s really get together and put whatever energy we have left into solving this crime that is being perpetrated against us.
God give us the strength and guidence we need to fix this.
I was finally put on Armour Thyroid after years of being on Synthroid. My doctor would not listen when I told her I was tired, gaining weight, loosing hair ect. We will just see what your labs are, they came back normal to her and she would do nothing. I finally changed doctors to someone who listened. We tried the Armour and what a difference. He also did a reverse T3 test and it showed the synthroid was not working right. Forrest Labs changed their formula and immediately I felt bad again. My doctor had my prescription to be compounded and what do you know, I am feeling great, lost 17 pounds in 3 months and my hair stays on my head. I will bet there is no thyroid extract in the new Armour. I would love to find a lab that would do an analysis of this. We all need to write the FDA and have them make Forrest Lab do testing on their drug since the formula has changed.
Thanks for your response. I’ll be sure to post an update.
Hi Chris,
It can be challenging to find the right medication for a thyroid problem. After I had my thyroid removed 10 years ago, I was initially prescribed Synthroid. It didn’t work for me at all, and because I had my surgery at a large major medical center, the doctors there were fairly “stuck” in their ways and not willing to listen to my suggestions that I try a natural thyroid medication. So, when I returned home after my surgery and the Synthroid was causing me to swell up like a balloon–not to mention the excruciating headaches that I was getting, I decided to find another doctor.
Best decision I made. I was switched to Armour natural thyroid and it changed everything. No more swelling or headaches, and I was able to lose the weight that I had gained while being hypothyroid. Still took effort–dont’ want anyone to think I just sat on the couch and lost weight, but the difference was that with diet and exercise, the weight came off. Which it never would when I was hypothyroid, and with the Synthroid, it seemed to make me bigger–even with exercise and diet.
Ok, so here’s my opinion about thyroid patients now. Armour made by Forest Labs, changed their formulation. Unfortunately for many people, myself included, I can’t take Armour anymore. I felt exhausted again, had difficulty maintaining my weight, and my hair started falling out after Forest changed the filler in Armour. So I had to come up with another option.
I get mine now from Canada, you can even order directly from the manufacturer if you want, but your doctor has to write the prescription in the following manner:
Natural Dessicated Thyroid (then he/she needs to write the amount in grains…not mg like they are used to) So, if you were taking 60 mg of Armour before, then the Erfa would be 1 grain, every 60 mg is equal to one grain
In terms of how to ask your doctor, the best info I can pass onto you is to just let them know that what you’re doing isn’t working for you with regards to the medication. Everyone is different when it comes to how certain medications affect them, and since you’re not having good results with Synthroid, which is not that unsual—you want to try the natural dessicated thyroid hormone. And the Canadian version is the closest to the “old” Armour (in my opinion).
It’s hard, but you have to advocate for yourself…sometimes it’s really frustrating with certain doctors who think “they know best”. But what I’ve learned with my thyroid issues is that I really do know when something works for me or not. And finally…after years of struggling to feel better, I know that I have to work with a doctor who listens to how I feel, otherwise, I would recommend finding a new doctor.
Hope that helps you. Please come back and post an update with how your doctor’s appointment went.
Hugs,
Louisa
I go to the doc on Tuesday. I was hoping to get some advice from others who have gotten their doc to switch from prescribing synthroid to Erfra. Thanks.
Wow! I stumbled onto all the massive amount of sites talking about Synthroid and Armour this week. I am amazed there is so much out there. I was diga. for hypo. in 1998. I was put on Levoxyl and felt so bad that I took myself off. A year later I went for a check up because of high blood pressure and Dr. did lab work. My triglyerides were 974 after a 12 hour fast. My Dr. said I absoultely had to go back on thyroid meds. She switched to me Snythriod and I learned to tolerate it. It was not as bad as the Levoxyl. But I didn’t feel good right from the beginning, palpitations, sluggish, moody, aniexty. I was pretty healhty and my resting heart rate was in 60s. Then it jumped up to and remains in upper 70s. Odd chest pains etc.. I was 34! Dr lowered my dose I and worked my way through the symptoms. I am still on Snythroid, 12 years later. I still feel like sluggish and don’t feel healthy. I have put on 45lbs and it takes way tooooo much effort for so few losses to lose weight. Anyway, my blood pressure is back up again so I went on line to research when I came on all this info. and this site. Kind of exciting to talk to other people with thyroid problems. I didn’t know it was possible feel better than I do. I am going to ask my new Dr about Armour. Weird thing is my symptoms are different. I am hypo but I can’t tolerate heat. my skin is dry-but not flaky, steady wt gain, nails and hair are ok. I sleep 8 or 9 hours and still am so tired I lay in bed for another hour just thinking if I can get away with it. I am bloated and hands puffy. Today I am sweating because it is in the 70′s and yet my morning and afternoon temp were 97.6, but I am too hot. Been this way for 12 years. I wear a spring jacket in 15 to 20 degree winter. I felt at the time when I started taking Snythroid that it caused more hyper and hypo symptoms. I felt really good before taking meds. Had energy, could lose weight when I tried. Felt rested when I woke in the morning. I still continue to feel like I live in a fog.
Is it possible that I can be misdiagnosed?
I will of course talk to my Dr, but I’m not sure what to tell him.
Lynn,
You can ask the pharmacist at the compounding pharmacy what fillers he/she uses. Sometimes you can have reactions to different fillers, or the fillers can affect how the thyroid medication is absorbed. That very well could be why so many thyroid patients are having problems with the new Armour. Because Forest Labs changed their filler when they reformulated the new Armour.
So, ask what fillers are used, and if you need more help, just post your question here. There are alot of knowledgeable folks here who would be happy to help you.
BTW, too much thyroid hormone or too little can cause headaches.
I’ve been taking compounded natural thyroid medication since I couldn’t use the new Armour, but I’m noticing that I’m getting headaches and was wondering if anyone else had this happen. Do you all know what’s in the porcine powder that the pharmacies use when they compound the natural thyroid?
Hi Everyone,
I started Erfra, The Canadian Thyroid back in October of last year. When I take it, I feel warmer than I did with Armour. My thyroid dose I had to reduce from 180 mg of the new reforumulated Armour to only 120 mg of Erfra. My hair, has also stopped falling out as well when I changed to the Canadian Thyroid.
Hi Ginger,
I’ll definately have to ask about the Reverse T3 test. I also have high blood cortisol levels but my Dr. never really did anything about it. I have complained so many times to my Endo about finding it almost impossible to loose weight. (high cortisol makes it even harder!) I recently started following a very good diet (no sugar, potatoes, white anything). I also run 3 times a week along with other areobic workouts and I’m lucky if I loose 1 lb a month. It makes me want to scream! (My sis, also the same way.) Low carb diets, omega 3, green tea, enough sleep, and limiting to workouts to less than 1 hour are all supposed to help lower cortisol levels.
Hi Jeannette,
I know what you mean about feeling like a slug:-) Some days I wonder where all my energy has gone. I hope you can get your endo to increase your doseage. One thing that also helped me is that my new doctor did a Reverse T3 test and told me that this can cause you to be for all intensive purposes, hypothyroid even if your labs look good. Apparently there is often a high Free T4 when this happens and some doctors reduce your dose, when in actually you are not getting enough replacement thyroid hormone. Obviously, for me, I’m still working on finding what works, but I also found that I had low ferritin, but normal serum iron along with high cortisol which can also hamper the thyroid hormones from being able to be utilized properly. So starting on some iron replacement although the prescription one that my doctor gave me upset my stomach so badly that I had to stop that one. Finally found another iron supplement that doesn’t hurt my stomach, so maybe this will help.
I do think that the new Armour smells differently from the old one, but you’re right..neither one smells very appealing. I too have Hashimotos and it seems like there is a genetic component to that as well.
Hope you and your sister are feeling better soon.
I’ve been back on Armour for just over a month now (from switching from Armour to Synthroid and now back to Armour). I believe overall I’m doing ok with the new reformulated Armour, but I can feel that this particular dose is a little low. I’m still struggling with dry patchy skin, dry hair and quite often feel like a slug, but in some other aspects I feel a little more regular. In the past I was on 90mg but my Endo started me on 60mg so I’m hoping once I get my updated labs I will be back to 90mg and feeling better. My twin sister (who has Hashimoto’s just like me) also switched back from Synthroid to Armour and she feels about the same as I do. Just more tired than anything.
One thing that everybody talks about is how you can notice the smell being less pugnent with the new Armour. I don’t notice that? They still smell horrible if you ask me.
Hi Angela, I’m glad you’re able to find Armour thyroid again and that it’s working better for you than Synthroid. Boy, can I relate. Anything it seems works better than Synthroid. I was on it for 4 years and just felt horrible. Kept thinking it was just because I was getting older–didn’t know there could be a difference until I finally went to a Naturopath and she suggested I stop the synthetics and try natural thyroid hormone. I was like a new person with Armour, until they changed it. Guess it really depends on our own response, but I couldn’t tolerate the new Armour. I’m on NatureThroid now but that’s been such a struggle to find it over the past 9 months. It’s supposed to be getting better I’m told in terms of the shortage, but not sure what to think, and I really wish the old Armour would come back.
You’re smart to have your Vitamin D levels checked and I know ferritin also makes a difference in how I feel but of course, my doctors in the past never checked that and I learned about that from another thyroid patient. We must all stick together LOL, otherwise I’m afraid we’d never feel our best.
Anyway, just wanted to say hello, and I’m so glad that you are doing alright with the new Armour.
I was taking Armour for about 3 years before the shortage. Compared to the years before that, where I was feeling like a stoned tortoise, I was feeling peachy. My hair was thicker, my skin was healthier, and I was regular in so many ways. I did notice a change sometime in the midst of the last year. My eyebrows started falling out in the corners again, my hair was getting rather brittle again, and I was feeling a bit less than energetic. But, I was still better than I’d been before. So, I thought it was just stress.
When they stopped the availability of Armour last year, I was switched to Sythroid. While I initially felt OK, I soon became exhausted, paranoid, thin-haired, and was completely unable to handle the cold. I would leave my house in the winter to get into a pre-heated car, go into the office, and then go home to get into pajamas and go to bed. That was my life for several months.
As soon as I found that there were any dosages of Armour available, I pleaded with the pharmacist to let me get them and cut them to my dose. Within weeks, I was feeling better overall and able to get out to run again. My hair has since recovered, and my eyebrows are back.
Apart from feeling just a bit jittery and not quite “with-it,” I have been feeling fine since being back on Armour. I didn’t know it was reformulated until my appointment yesterday to check on some other hormone-related issues. It was cited that some of the changes to Armour– either before the freeze or since its return?– could cause some changes in the iron and vitamin D levels, as well. They ran blood tests. Still awaiting the results from that… And, I’m still trying to find information about how it all links together.
I also live by a gluten free diet and have been exposed to all kinds of bad-for-me foods over the Easter holiday, so I’m never sure whether it’s the Armour or just that I’ve eaten something that’s causing other malabsorption issues. All I can do is compare how I feel today to how I felt before Armour. It’s still better than Synthroid, so I’m going to stick with it until I seem some definitive news on why I shouldn’t or what is really going to be better for me.
I could just scream! I have been sick since October! MASSIVE HAIR LOSS, Headaches, joint pain, ANGINA, weird menstrual periods, stomach aches, REFLUX, MOOD SWINGS, brittle nails, you name it!!! I thought it was the cold weather, menopause coming early, stress, my hairdresser, my shampoos, my migraine medicine. EVERYTHING but ARMOUR!!!! I have been on Armour for years and was cruising like a champion! Then in October–BAM! I hit a wall. I had no idea all of this was brewing on the web… I have called Armour. I have called the FDA. I have posted on as many websites as I possibly could. WE ARE INJURED!!!!!! And I want my compensation for the hundreds of dollars of bills that I’ve run up visiting GPs and Derms to stop my hair from falling out. I threw away expensive shampoos and bought new lines. I even went on that crappy synthroid for 30 days as a last resort because my Dr told me that I may have developed anti-bodies to the Armour. My hair is SIX INCHES shorter in just three months!!!! It’s thin, brittle and STILL falling out!!!!! I switched to a compounded prescription two weeks ago but so far my hair is STILL breaking off…inch by inch!! It’s not coming out at the root. It’s just dry and brittle and falling out like 1/4 to 1/2 inch pieces of black pinestraw!!! I HATE it!!! I had no idea that they reformulated until ONE week ago! Have I been living under a rock??????? I am an AVID Internet surer and health nut, so I know that there are some people out there who still dont know, and I know that they are being harmed tremendously.. What are we doing Armourites?? What are we going to demand??????
I am switching from Compounded to Erfa tomorrow! I will post again to let you all know how it’s going!
I never did very well on Synthroid. Then I went to a nutritionist because I was gaining all kinds of weight and she encouraged me to ask my doctor at that time about trying Armour Thyroid. Guess even the nutritionists were more tuned into their patients then the doctors. Anyway, I had a hard time getting my physician to prescribe it. I later found a holistic doctor who had no issues with Armour and he also encouraged me to add in DHEA a few times a week. This worked fine for a long time, but then last year when the fiasco with Armour happned I changed to NatureThroid. But for me, the Nature Throid wasn’t as effective as the old Armour. I finally changed again to the Canadian Thyroid and started taking them about one month ago. Within only a few days I started feeling better than I had in years. I take the Canadian Thyroid in the morning with a full glass of water. My energy is great, sleep better than I hae in years. For me, I like the Canadian Thyroid (Efra) better than the old or the new Armour.
Hi Jeanette,
Thanks for stopping by. It may be a good idea to have a backup plan (just in case) like you said. Most of the thyroid patients writing in to share feedback with us have been discouraged by the new Armour, but there are a few who seem to think that it works ok for them. I think it is just important no matter what medication you are on or choose to pay attention like you have been to the symptoms. I mean, who wants to deal with the weight gain, headaches, and what I call “feeling like you’ve been run over by a truck” syndrome:-) Would love to hear how you do on the new Armour as it’s always good to get feedback from those of us “in the field” so to speak. Some people who are still using the new Armour are also adding just a tiny bit of sugar to it to see if that helps with the absorption. Along with the filler chaange, Forest Labs reduced the amount of sugar in the tablets, thus making them taste differently and theoretically this could also affect absorption levels in the body.
Anyway, take care of yourself, and thanks to everyone who’s written in.
Wow! I just finished reading every post. I was not aware of the reformulation until today. Where in the heck have I been!? Geesh..
I first started out on Synthroid, then switched to Armour and took that for several years. I really liked it until one day last winter my pharmacy said it was discontinued. Just believing what they said, my Doctor switched me back to Synthroid. After being sick and tired of gaining weight, muscle aches, and headaches, I found out online that Armour was not discontinued so I had my doctor switch me back (she voiced her concerns that she does not like it). Believe it or not, today was my first day back on Armour. I’ll have to pay close attention to the symptoms and I’ll let you know if it works for me. So far, I’m not liking what I’m reading! I might check to see if my pharmacy has Nature-Throid just in case!
Hello Parish,
I also have Hashimotos and am hypothryoid. Here’s the deal. You are absolutely correct to question and advocate for yourself in terms of requesting natural thyroid medication. I was put on Synthroid, oh what a mistake that was for me to take it by the Mayo Clinic after having thyroid surgery there. Unfortunately, the endocrinologist I saw had no idea about using natural thyroid medication. I had the most severe headaches of my life with Synthroid, felt terrible, and after a few weeks said that I didn’t care who I had to see, my primary goal was to find a doctor who could prescribe a natural dessicated thyroid. Initially I did wonderfully well on Armour thyroid, my headaches went away, energy level came back, fogginess disappeared, hair loss stopped and I felt terrific. Unfortunately, after I got a new prescription that was filled using the new “Armour” my hair started falling out again and try as I might, I almost couldn’t get off the couch to do much of anything. Plus I had shooting pains in my head like someone was stabbing me. Since my doctor didn’t know the Armour was reformulated, nor did my pharmacist, I had to find out thru research and found this website. When I read the info from other patients I was floored. I changed to Nature Throid until the shortage happened with that medication—I know the whole thing is disheartening and disillustioning, and finally I just got my doctor to prescribe me the Canadian thyroid and I order mine from a Canadian Pharmacies. The Nature Throid worked pretty well for me, so I think if you could find it it in your area just may be an option for you to try. If not, there is a pharmacy in AZ who will ship it out to you and their shipping costs are very reasonable. Alternatively you can see about finding a doctor who will just write you a prescription for the Canadian thryoid as for me I think it works just a little better than the Nature Throid, although the Nature Throid was pretty good for me as well. I just prefer the Canadian because it reminds me of the old “Armour” including the taste! But my symptoms were well managed with the Nature Throid too.
Here’s some quick additional tips:
1. Right now, make it a point to get copies of all your labs. Don’t rely on the doctor’s office to tell you what is “normal’ or not. The thing you will quickly learn is that the ranges for many of the thyroid labs is inconsistent and many of the doctors treating thyroid disease if they are endocrinologists are trained more in diabetes medicine and are not that great if competent at all at treating throid patients.
So get copies of all your labs and repost them if you wish with the reference ranges for the lab where you had them done and I will be happy to give you some additional feedback if you like. Most of us (thyroid patients feel better when our TSH is below 2.0 although the “range” for most labs is much higher. Remember “in range” or normal does not mean that you feel your best within the lab’s reference range, what you are looking for is your “optimal” level. I learned that from this website.
The fact that your antibodies are so high is an indication that you desperately need thyroid medication, so your doctor is correct to treat you for it, however, google synthroid problems as it sounds like you may have already done and you will see so many first hand accounts from patients who have not had good relief from symptoms using a synthetic thyroid medication.
In terms of the compounded, some patients do very well on it, it depends upon the compounding pharmacy and you are correct in terms of questioning the fillers. Some patients find that adding a little sugar to the compounded version makes it more “absorbable” and thus makes it work better. Drawbacks of compounded are that it is more expensive. I wouldn’t really buy your doctor’s excuse that it makes it more difficult to maintain proper blood levels… sometimes the physicians I think say silly things because they just aren’t experienced enough in treating thyroid patients. Compounded versions can be actually more “exact” because a specific amount of Free T3 and Free T4 can be made individually for y our needs. But again, it is the filler that can be the issue and some patients just do better with one of the other brands of manufactured natural dessicated thyroid.
So, I know it is alot to take in. Please post back if you need any other help. I was only able to get better through the grace of God and thank goodness the help and support of other thyroid patients. If I can help someone else through this process I am happy to do so. Just try to take it one step at a time, and if your doctor isn’t willing to listen to you and prescribe a natural thyroid hormone if that is your decision, although this may sound harsh, best advice I can give you is find another doctor. Take care, and please post with an update if you can after you decide what to do and with your progress on how you are feeling.
One more thing… once you are treated with the proper medication, I promise you will feel better, so there is lots of hope:-)
Hi. For the past few years, I have noticed my skin becoming more dry and my hair falling out in much larger quantities. I have felt fatigued even though I try to sleep 8-9 hours a night. I am thirsty all of the time, even when I drink 2-3 liters of water per day. Last week, I went for blood work and was told that my TSH is 6.25, my T3 is normal, and my Free T4 is 1.24 (which I was told is normal, but borderline). I was also told that my TPO is 197 and my TG is 59. My doctor says I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and she wants me on Synthroid ASAP. After doing a lot of research, however, I am afraid to take Synthroid and I would rather take Armour. Or at least, I wanted to until I read about the reformulation. My doctor wants me to begin medication immediately, but I am afraid of exacerbating the problem with the wrong medication. I asked her nurse if I could have the prescription called into a compounding pharmacy, but I was told that they will not do it because it is more difficult to maintain the proper blood levels and that often the compounding pharmacies use allergenic fillers. I do not know what to do and I need some sound advice.
McCain’s “Safety Act” Bill would increase our already inflated health care costs. Isn’t that one of the reasons they are supposedly trying to bring reform into the medical system? Supposedly costs are one of the biggest problems we have now, therefore McCain’s supplement bill shouldn’t be able to be justified. But just because they can’t justify it now doesn’t mean that in the past they haven’t done many things that couldn’t be justified.
Natural Thyroid is not the only thing that’s being threatened. The new bill Senator McCain has come up with is also something that could have less then optimal effects. I think sometimes our lawmakers don’t have a clue what is going on in the real world and come up with things that end up costing us more and making us more dependent upon systems that don’t worlk. “The Dietary Supplement Safety Act” would make it so that we’d have to get a prescription from the doctor (good heavens, most of them don’t even know about the benefits of Vitamin D) but we’d need a prescription from the doctor to get a bottle of vitamin C, which would in turn drive up prices even more for the Vitamin C, and the patients having to pay the doctor just to get some natural supplements. Looks like Big Pharma is winning again, and may have complete control over both prescription and non-prescription products if this passes.
Jill, I was forced to go on Medicare Part d..which costs 30.00 per month, then found out that they don’t even cover Armour. Now they don’t cover cytomel either. Years ago, when Part D didn’t even exist, I didn’t have any problems. The price of cytomel has gone up from $45.00 to over $100.00 in the past 2 years. Guess we are in for some challenging times.
The New Armour in my opinion is about as worthless as Synthroid. I used to get feelings like my jaws were very “tight” and “clenched” all the time with Synthroid. Had muscle aches like fibromyalgia and thought everyone felt so bad. Took it for years after I was brainwashed by my doctor. Ie: “doctor knows best, and your doctor knows everything” NOT! Was amazed after finding out that there actually were other options and switched doctors and did great with the old Armour. Now, it’s back to square one for me. What A mess!
Government healthcare is not the answer for patients. If anyone thinks so, ask some of the people on Medicare. I’ve just been denied natural thyroid medication by Medicare. Was told I was either taking too much (after my endo prescribed it) or it was not safe. I had called and asked to speak personally to the pharmacist but was told that it was impossible for “patients” to speak directly to him. Guess they decide that a lowly patient couldn’t know how they were feeling and they know best which medications work and which ones do not. I can’t take Synthroid no matter what. Talk about increased healthcare bills. I almost ended up in the hospital the last time I took Synthroid. What a mess!
Yes, it’s amazing the differences in “norms” with the TSH levels. My daughter, unfortunately had a TSH of 8, and was told by her doctor that she wasn’t considered hypothyroid until her TSH got above 10. By that time she was almost non functional. We found a DO (doctor of Osteopath) who worked with us and told us that the upper range for TSH should actually be 2.0 to 2.5 and that many of his patients didn’t feel their best unless the TSH was below 2.0. There was something else he was explaining about the TSH not being that important anyway when someone is on natural hormone replacement because the TSH will automatically go lower in those cases. He said it’s more important to go by the way that the patient feels and the Free T3 and Free T4 levels instead of the TSH.
Hello, I am wondering why some labs are listing upper range for the TSH at 5.5, some will list 5.0 and still others I see are showing 4.5. It is rare that I see anyone listing the “newer” recommendations of 0.3 – 3.0. Why do so many laboratories show differences in the upper limits for TSH when so many of us with TSH levels that high feel so poorly?
Hi I started having trouble with armour last Fall (09) when I got a script of Armour filled. My TSH levels almost doubled in 5 weeks. I learned of the reformulation on line. I switched to canadian Thyyroid. My last blood work showed good improvement in TSH but I am going to go up from 30 mg of Canadian Thyorid (my old Armour dose) to 45 mg of Canadian.
I think I may call Forest. It can’t hurt to have hundreds of people call Forest and ask them to switch back. the only way they might ever switch back is through customer complaints.
Is anyone doing well on the new Armour? I was taking the old Armour Thyroid for almost 7 years after having my thyroid removed due to thyroid cancer. Just wondering if anyone is having any success with the new Armour after Forest changed it?
I’m using the Erfra ie: Canadian Thyroid now and found it works well sublinqually like the old Armour. Because this winter’s been so cold I find that I have to increase my dose slightly. Had to do this with the old Armour as well. Once it warms up again I will go back to my regular dose of thyroid medicine. I also take mine in 2 times a day. Once when I wake up and once around 3pm in the afternoon. Seems to work better for me if I split it up.
I can now get the Nature-Throid again locally as well. Been using it sublinqually for about 6 months now. I split the tablet in half and then put the crumbs and the pieces under my tongue which helped it to dissolve. It’s more gritty tasting than the old Armour but my lab tests have stayed within good ranges so I guess I must have been absorbing most of my thyroid hormones from it. Seemed like the old Armour tasted better and was more easily absorbed, but I did not have a good experience with the old Armour in terms of my blood work and felt awful on it, thus the switch to Nature-Throid.
Whooohooo everyone, my Nature Throid prescription was able to be filled locally today. Tomorrow I can stop using the compounded type of thyroid. I didn’t care for it at all and haven’t felt very good for a few months since I couldn’t get the Nature thyroid. Was also a big fan of the “old” Armour. Took it for 13 years until it was changed. Arrghhhh, couldn’t believe it when it started tasting different and giving me horrible headaches etc. Long haul to try to get the right meds. Tomorrow will be my first day in a long time actually being able to take a regular tablet instead of the compounded thyroid, so I can’t wait. Anyone else having any luck in getting the Nature Throid?
Camille,
This is almost exactly what happened to me. I kept loosing my keys, couldn’t remember what I had entered a room to get, and my body ached all over. Every day, all day. Was beginning to think I had some strange condition, because my Nurse Practitioner whom I see for General Family Practice type things said I was fine! Couldn’t believe it, when I found out that Forest Labs had changed things. And that no one in my community ie: NP, doctor, pharmacist etc, knew about it either and they kept telling me it must be something else even though I told them it must be the medication. Guess that leaves me more trusting of MYSELF:-)
I hope everything turns out for you ok. I tried using the compounded version of natural thyroid and it didn’t work for me, but the Nature Throid seems to do ok, although I’m not sure it is as good as the old Armour. But the good news is that with me taking the Nature Throid I’m not forgetting things anymore, my energy is back, and my weight is back to where it should be. No muscle aches or joint problems anymore for me either, so I’m thankful for that.
If you wouldn’t mind staying in touch through the boards here that would be great. I’d love to know how things turn out if you decide to change medications and like you…am so glad that at least there are other thyroid patients who actually know what’s going on!
Warmly,
Kathy
I have felt so sick since taking the new Armour Thyroid formulation, I had no idea what was wrong with me, I did not know they had reformulated it! I feel like I have the flu every day, headache, body and joint ache, foggy, I feel really terrible and it seems to get a little worse each day. A bell went off in my head that when I received this last prescription I began to feel REALLY sick. It does not have the same smell as the Armour Thyroid I have taken for the last 10 years. I am really upset with Forest Labs and their negligence over this issue. I am switching to Natur -thryroid to see if I can start feeling like I am not sick every day and get my health back on track.
Wow, I am so relieved that I looked on the internet and found that Armour Thyroid reformulated this prescription and that other people have felt sick from the new formulation.
camille
Carolyn,
When my pharmacy must have changed over to the new Armour I had terrible troubles as well. Awful headaches, gaining weight, and so tired that I didn’t want or care to do anything. And normally, I’m up and going all the time. I thought I got a defective batch from my pharmacy, and got another refill. Still didn’t change anything, still felt terrible. Called my doctor, he wasn’t any help, and finally found out through this website that the Armour had changed. There is finally some Nature Throid available with certain pharmacies in my area, so hopefully you could get some locally in yours. I had to call around to many of them before finding a local one who had it in stock. Also, I know some of the ladies I talk to from this board here said that they ordered the Nature Throid using the Arizona Pharmacy that is mentioned. Let me know if you need their phone number. They will mail it out to you supposedly and I was told that they are really nice and efficient. Finally, as another option, I had ordered some of the Canada Thyroid because I wanted to try it and I am really pleased with it. I’m doing a “test” now where I’m only using the Canada Thyroid, then I will switch back to the Nature Throid once I refill mine here locally and will use that again for about a month to make sure that I’m not imaging that I’m feeling better, but so far, I think I really like the Canada thyroid better than the Nature one. It seems to me like it is like the old “Armour” which I loved. I’m so sorry that you struggling with the new Armour. I don’t know why the company changed. I called the 800 number to complain, and yes they do take down the information but I’m a bit leary of trusting a company again when they didn’t let anyone know in the first place that they changed their ingredients.
Also, I had gone to the Mayo clinic for my thyroid a few years ago…not for Lipedema. I thought Mayo was an amazing place. Some really good doctors who helped me with some other issues I had, but the endocrinologist at Mayo that I saw I was not impressed with. He was focused on putting me only on “Syncrap”..sorry, I mean Synthroid and was not open to prescribing any Natural Thyroid, so I had to find a local doctor to get my Armour prescription, and then didn’t have any troubles until the Armour changed. I hope you can get your precription changed if you are still not feeling well with the old Armour. I can tell you I feel a world of difference after changing mine.
Hugs to you Carolyn!
Renee
Please do call Forest Labs and complain about the refom Armour!! The only way we can get them to change it back is to keep calling. I called them yesterday and someone took a detailed report of my complaints and symptoms! Took my name etc, said someone might be contacting me. I told them I had had horrible heart palpitations and they wanted to know if I had seen the doctor. My doctor wanted me to try Synthroid which I started taking yesterday. Well, felt nauseated all day yesterday and again since this morning. Am also freezing!! Also talked to one of their pharmacists, not sure why I was transferred to him. I asked why they had changed it, he said so it would dissolve easier! If nobody ever complained about it before why did they think this a problem? This might make sense for the heart palps, in that if it dissolves faster, maybe people getting too much T3 too quickly, causing the the heart problem. However, that doesn’t explain the weight gain, tiredness, and brain fog, unless too much is released too quickly, and then there isn’t enough to maintain the dose throughout the day. Am only guessing of course! If you are unhappy with this product, PLEASE do call Forest and give them a statement on your experience. It seems they are listening to what people are saying.
Hello I Am Carolyn in Tennessee I am having a lot of problems with my armour thyroid of late.I have been on Armour Thyroid for 50 years. I am having problems with my eyes & also weight gain & trouble with sleeping & tiredness I quess I finilly got the new batch. I am on 120 mg a day. Tried Synthroids before didn’t work . Also I have a condition called Lipedema which has to do with lip fat..Does anyone else have this condition too. Lipedema is inhereted & its not what you eat.Went to Mayo Clinic with my problems with Lipedema ,Thryoid,Diabetes,&Fibro. Now with a messed up thyroid again what a mess I am 66 years old Thanks Carolyn
I apologize for the mistake in my previous entry where I stated that the supplement of Armour increased my T4 levels. It should have stated that it increased both T3 and T4, and that now I was getting more T3 than with Synthroid alone.
Merry
Thanks Diane, for starting this forum.
I started on Armour thyroid some 30 years ago. I was doing great. But my doctor put me on Synthoid a couple of years later….boy was that a shocker. I went back time and time again with problems and he kept changing the dose. He said that I needed to wait, that my body would become acclimated. Well, being the uninformed person that I was at that time in my life, I thought he knew what he was talking about, so I stuck with it and have remained on it for the next 30 years. I have remained overweight with low energy much of the time.
I can’t say I have had the best health through out that time and sometimes I wonder if the Synthoid has had something to do with that. I have Fibromyalgia, Sjogren’s Syndrome, acid reflux, colitis, nerve pain, Sleep problems, Apnea, breast cancer and most recently Macular Degeneration.
I started on a low dose of Armour about two years ago to bring up my T4 levels. I had to fight with my doctor to do this, but I laid out the information on the table, and she agreed to try it. I noticed a difference right away. My plan was to go completely off of the Synthroid and on to Armour. Well that did not happen, and you know why.
Now I am going through many of the same issues as most of the people on this forum, but at least I am still on the Synthroid. I was lucky enough to get a 6 month supply ahead on the Armour when I heard about the shortage. But, now I am out like the rest of you. I guess I will be calling some place in Canada and see what pans out.
Some one needs to give a d—, and get to the bottom of what has truly happened with Forest Labs. Also the medical community, particularly those in medical research need to take this seriously and find out why there is such an increase in low thyroid in our population, particularly in females. They need to take seriously the health risks we all face when our systems are in short supply or no supply of thyroid. Last but not least, we need to do something seriously radical about the pharmaceutical industry.
Thanks for listening.
Merry
Sharon,
There’s another lady whom I’ve been “talking” to on this site who said it took her almost 3 weeks to start feeling better after she switched to a compounded version. She said and I agree that it can take a little while if you change medications for your body to ‘catch up’. The other thing that I learned is that in the winter time I have to take just a little bit more medicine than in the summer, and that if you are exercising you may also need to increase the doseage of your thyroid medication. I learned that from a really good webcast that the lady on this site did for many of us who had questions. It was really helpful. Maybe they’d do another one for us if there was some interest and if we had some questions we’d like answered about how to best manage this thyroid stuff.
I hope you feel better soon. Would be grateful to you for posting an update after you see how it works for you. I’m kind of worried that I’ll have to change one day to the compounded since it’s been so hard to get the Nature version and so it would be nice to know if it works ok for you.
I have been on Armour for about 7 years. In the last 6 months I have noticed that I’m tired all the time. Can’t lose weight even following a regimented diet… and overall the hypo symptoms have come back. after reading about Armour being reformulated I wondered if this is the reason. I have been having trouble finding Armour for about a year. When I tried to refill this week the pharmacy said they didn’t know when they would get more and that I should consider changing to synthroid. I’ve read bad things about switching to Synthroid. When I called the Dr. they recommended having the natural med compounded. I just picked my script up last night and took it this morning for the first time. I was lucky to have a compounding pharmacy right down the road from where I work. It was $66 for 90 day supply – I take 180mg. I would like to hear how others who switched from Armour to the compounded? Anyone out there that has done this? How long did it take to feel better again? I’m hopeful it will be better than the new formulation of Armour. I’ll report back in a month or so too. Thanks!
Hi Peggy, it’s been such a struggle for many people who used to use Armour Thyroid medication and who are now experiencing problems. I’m so sorry you’re having difficulty too. There is a pharmacy in Arizona which I found who still had some supplies of the Nature Throid at reasonable prices and will ship them out to thyroid patients. Let me know if you want the name of it and I’ll email you with that information. What others are doing is to order directly from one of the Canadian Pharmacies. This has proven to be less expensive for many of us as compared to the cost of compounding. Since the new formulation of Armour didn’t work for me I just stopped using it as it and had to find another solution as I don’t have any thyroid at all either. Please keep me posted on how you’re doing and if you change to another brand it is helpful if you would share how it works for you. Take care, and thanks for your comments.
if I hadn’t stumbled across this information I would have probably spent thousands in medical bills (no insurance!) in the next month trying to figure out what was going wrong in my body. Thyroid removed 30 yrs ago, Armour thyroid for almost all the years since. In late August I renewed my Armour & since then have had daily morning diarrhea within hours of taking the “new” Armour – tried everything (changing diet, probiotics, digestive enzymes, etc., even cutting down on dosage, but unless I take Immodium or Pepto Pismol daily I’m suffering. I believe it’s an allergy or reaction to the fillers in the new formulation & I really feel like crap overall. Today I didn’t take the Armour & my stomach feels just fine – not sure what I’m going to do as I can’t afford the compounding pharmacy price & no one locally has anything I can substitute until Nature-throid becomes available (maybe in February?) I’ve got a month of this defective stuff left but not sure if I want to continue taking it – thanks Forest for making me sick & wasting my money!!
Hi Debbie, thanks for sharing. Although soooo frustrating, it helps I think to know that you are not the only one having problems after the reformulation. There have been many comments coming in regarding the fact that the new reformulated Armour does not have the same odor as the old one. Please thank your sister for me for bringing that up as that gives everyone more info on how to possibly determine if they have the old or new Armour forumulation. Compounding can be a good option and many people are choosing to have their natural thyroid medications compounded at least until the supplies of some of the other dessicated thyroid medications are available in most states and pharmacies again. What’s really hard for a lot of thyroid patients is that compounding can increase the cost of their medications by up to 1000%. And no, that’s not a typo…I’ve talked to thyroid patients who’ve said that their costs have risen one-thousand percent by having to use compounded medications! For everyone who either has a low deductible health plan it may not be an issue but the New Year brings a lot of financial challenges for patients who are starting over with their health care deductible. Not to mention the extra costs that the actual insurers are paying. I don’t think that Forrest Labs is concerned, but the fallout from their decision to change their formulation is far reaching. And yes, keep track of your blood work, but also make note as you’ve written here about how you feel. The combination of how your energy level is, your sleep quality, your ability to exercise, concentrate and generally live your life is so very much affected by your thyroid. So perhaps think about keeping a journal so that as you are adjusting your medications and/or changing to the compounded version you can track how you are feeling with changes in dosage etc.
It’s great to hear from thyroid patients like yourself who are coming up with solutions to get through this challenge. And I’m thrilled that your energy is coming back up and that the weight issue is back on track. It’s hard enough to lose or maintain one’s weight with a normal thyroid:-) If you don’t mind please keep me posted on how you are doing. We can all learn from each other I think if we continue to share our experiences. Thanks again for writing in, and the very best to you for the New Year!
I have been taking Armour for 5 years and just in the last 7 months I have felt like crap. I was taking 90mg of Armour and I found out that they reformulated it so I spoke with my Doctor about this and we both decided that I could start taking 120mg because the 120mg is probably really 90mg. My Sister is also taking Armour and she mentioned that it doesn’t have an odor like it used to (when I would open that bottle the smell would stay with you for a while and it tasted sweet not anymore) and I have noticed that too. We both felt tired and gaining some weight so now that I am taking 120mg I am losing weight again and i’m not as tired. I found a Pharmacy in Canonsburg, Pa and they compounded it for me so now I will be getting the full strength 120mg instead of 90mg so I will need to have blood work to make sure that I am not getting to much or to little. The last thing that I want is for my hair to start falling out. I refuse to take Synthroid I have so many bad things about it.
has everyone called Forest Labs and told them what the “new” Armour has done to them? The phone number is 800-678-1605 ext 66297. Please call them and let them know so maybe they will go back to the “old” formula.
Hi,
FYI, in the last several years I went from Synthroid, to Armour, to a compounded thyroid–the last because of the reformulation. Why I’m writing…if you have ANY suspicion that you are unable to tolerate one of the fillers (for example, the crystalline cellulose added to Armour–and also found in Synthroid), you might want to find a good compounding pharmacy in your area–Canada not necessary. The one huge benefit (be sure to ask yours) is that there ARE no fillers, only the dessicated thyroid. The capsule is made of gelatin. You will need a script with what you have been taking so they can make up the correct dose.
As soon as I stopped the “new Armour,” I was 100% better within days, and I’m feeling just fine on the new compounded dose. My symptoms had been general body aches and pains, along with exacerabated pain of pre-existing, unrelated pain. I firmly believe doctors are ignorant (and want to stay that way) about the effects of the fillers in any medication. Many people are sensitive to one or many.
Good luck.
Julie, I know it has been a huge problem for so many of us who used to do well on the old Armour. The new formulation is not supposed to be taken sublingually and according to the company, the new formulation is not meant to be taken sublingually. Just a fyi, we have gotten many emails from patients who used to take the old version sublingually who have said that the new version is not working for them either sublingually or swallowing the tablets. If the new version is just not working for you, I would absolutely suggest that you talk to your doctor about changing to Nature-thyroid or trying to have a compounding pharmacy in your area compound your thyroid medication for you. Alternatively, I am hearing from many patients who are seeming to do very well ordering the Naturally Dessicated Thyroid Hormone from Canada. Reports coming in say that it is the closest to the old Armour that folks have found and a lot of the emails I am getting are very positive from those who have ordered their medications. You do have to be careful however, about ordering medication online by making sure you are ordering from a reputable Canadian pharmacy. If you need more help let me know and I can share more info on how to know if the source you are ordering from is a reputable one and I have some links I can share with you about sources of ordering info if you need them.
Also, if you decide to switch to Nature-Thyroid it is now very difficult to find because of the shortage, but there are a few pharmacies that I know of who did have a small supply left but that has to be ordered in most cases as well, but these are US pharmacies, just fyi.
Hope this helps and do let me know if you need more assistance. Hang in there, it is worth it to find another option if the new Armour isn’t working for you. If you’re body is not absorbing the correct amount of thyroid hormone it’s normal to feel unwell, so just know there is hope once you find another medication that works for you.
Hi!
I, like so many others am having great difficulty with the new Armour formulation. My blood test are all over the board from HYPO to Hyper, not to mention the pain, fatigue and hair loss etc. I had been on armour for a few years and always just swallowed the pill… never sublingual or chewed. Should I try to chew and then follow with water? Also, how do I try to switch to Naturethroid? I am in the Indianapolis area and when I mention Naturethroid, no one has heard of it. Any help would be so greatly appreciated. I want my life back.
Hi Mary Ellen, I have some of the Nature-throid left but I am also trying the Natural Dessicated Thyroid that I ordered from Canada and I don’t know if it’s wishfull thinking or not, but right now it seems when that the Thyroid that I ordered from one of the Canadian Pharmacies is working for me like the old Armour used to. I was going to wait a few weeks more before posting about it just to make sure that it was working like it seems to be for me, but so far I am really very pleased with it.
What type of thyroid medication are you taking now? Are you chewing the tablets or swallowing them? Some of the people who used to take the old Armour sublingually are saying that they aren’t able to do that with the new Armour. Not sure if you’re on the new Armour or something else but stomach pain can be miserable……
I am having a lot of stomach problems. Which is the new thyroid you are taking. Experiening a lot of pain
Thank you
Thanks for your help about not giving up. I did try compounding armour and still having alot of problems,I can not take it. I am going to doctor and will try the nature throid. The doctor will have to take blood work to see if anything has changed. The burning in the throat from the new armour is so bad!! I am so frustrated trying to find what works and hope I can get nature throid. Is there anything we can do to get the old armour back? Thank you for all your help. Diane
I have been on Armour thyroid for over 7 years after having been on Synthroid for most of my life. I have had Hashimoto’s since the age of 7. I immediately felt wonderful on Armour. However within the past year of difficulties in getting Armour I have had symptoms again but didn’t really recognize them as thyroid related at firss (I have other medical issues that could have explained them). I have been able to get Armour Thyroid EXCEPT for last month when my pharmacy offered me generic. I took it but feel that “something just isn’t right”. To make matters worse, my wonderful endocrinologist has moved out of state and I’m left with one that is not as knowledgeable. (looking for another one as present time) I live in CT and the general theme I’m hearing from armour users is that they’re now being prescribed Synthyroid with Cytomel. I may have to go this route also AFTER having my labs done………..Too bad for Forest Pharmacueticals!. The only notification I gotabout Armour was thru my insurance carrier and even that was 6 months after I had trouble getting the correct dosage. I know a fellow Armour taker in Seattle who hasn’t been able to get Armour for over 7 months. This site was the first I had heard about a reformulated version. Thanks for the information. Could explain a lot of my symptoms.
Hi this is Diane again and I cut back on the reform thyroid and my hair is not falling out and feel better!! I took 90 one day and 75 the next and I felt good but heart racing and hair loss. My doctor said to stay on it so I did until I could not take anymore. Now I’m taking just 60mg and feeling so much better. My hair stopped failing out and no more heart racing. I hope I didn’t drop to much. I don’t knoe what I will do when I run out. Thanks for any help… Diane
I am disgusted at any changes that have been made to armour thyroid. I have had my thyroid surgically removed and do not have a thyroid at all. Armour has been the only medication that has worked for me. I am exstremly distrubed about the situation and my health. If their is anything I can do to get the original formula back please let me know. I have tried the new formulation and it is not the same. I can see a difference in weight gain within just one week of using it.
Hi Julie, thanks for your comments, and you are correct, there were many people who had used the old Armour sublingually, but there have been an equal number of reports from patients who are saying that they were swallowing the new Armour and were still having trouble. The most disheartening part of all this was that there were patients who were taking the same dosage of the new Armour whose lab levels suddenly went way out of line for their TSH and Free T3 and Free T4 levels, and we had reports of patients whose hair started falling out again, along with others who were having the same deep fatigue and hypo symptoms that they had prior to starting thyroid medication. I’m so glad that you are not having any trouble, that’s wonderful, but for many of us the change in fillers or whatever they did has not had a good effect. Keep us posted please and let us know if the new Armour continues to work ok for you, and thanks again for the suggestions:-)
Hi, I’m taking Nature-throid Right now, but will be ordering some replacement medications this week from one of the Canadian sources. I’m getting concerned because the prices are consistently raising, and I don’t want to wait until mid November (when the Nature-throid will be back in stock in the US, to find out there was some other delay or problem getting it restocked.) So I’ll be changing yet again…. (sigh…..) to the Canadian Version of Thyroid which is simply called “Thyroid”. I’ll post here when I get my supply and let everyone know how the ordering process worked, shipping etc. I’m going to ask that they ship it using an ice pack because it can get really quite warm in the FedEx trucks when they are out driving, and the thyroid medication shouldn’t be exposed to high heat.
Hi Sherry, I’ve only heard of 3 patients who’ve written in to say that they are doing ok with the old Armour. Most everyone whom I’ve talked to here and in other groups is having the same difficulties with the new Armour. Right now, it is challenging because of the shortages. What I can tell you is that out of everyone that I’ve heard from who has ordered the replacement Thyroid Medication from Canada (It is just called Thyroid and is manufactured by Erfa) is so far having good results from it. Some are saying it’s just like the old Armour and others are reporting that it seems to be working for them even a bit better than the old Armour. I’m going to give this a try myself as I was going to wait and see if I could just get a refill on my Nature-throid which has been working great for me since I changed from the old Armour, in November when it’s supposed to be back in stock, but because the prices on some of the Canadian sites are doubling within days and the shortage just seems to be getting worse, I’m going to err on the side of caution and go ahead and get some of the Canadian Thyroid medication because I can’t risk running out. Synthroid was horrendous for me…it didn’t work at all, and I’d go to the ends of the earth to avoid taking that medication again. Everyone is different, and I have one neighbor who has taken Synthroid for years and she says it works for her, but I think she is definitely in the minority as most patients whom I come in contact report much better results using the natural thyroid hormones vs the synthetics.
What I’m telling everyone who is struggling with these issues is to really take a step back and realize that you know when you are not feeling well. Trust your body and yourself. If the synthetics aren’t working ask your doctor to prescribe the natural hormones. You may need to get it from Canada, or Germany right now until there is stock again in the US, but it’s not necessary to keep on taking something that isn’t working for you. Another option is to see if you can find a compounding pharmacy in your area and ask if they have a supply of natural dessicated thyroid on hand to compound your medication. Note: Make sure that they are using natural dessicated thyroid hormone, we have heard of some patients paying extra to use a compounding pharmacy and not getting the natural dessicated thyroid hormone. If your current doctor won’t prescribe the natural thyroid hormones, then find another one. I know it can be difficult to find a good MD to help you with these issues, but they do exist. And if you can’t find an MD, then many people report having better luck with finding a D.O. or Doctor of Ostepath who can prescribe either Nature-throid or the Canadian Version of Thyroid for you, so look in your area for a Doctor of Osteopathy if you can’t find an MD who will help you. Be persistent, don’t give up, it’s your life, and you deserve to feel well. As of right now, there are very, very few pharmacies at all in the US that I’m hearing even have any Nature-throid, so I think right now most of us are left with ordering from Canada or Germany or using a compounding pharmacy that still has a supply of the natural dessicated thyroid hormone in stock.
I have been having difficulty getting my thyroid at the right levels also. I have been fluctuating up and down for several months and now have other hormonal imbalances that may be due to the thyroid not functioning well for some time. I am losing hair and feeling fatigued with many memory loss issues. The doctor is having difficulty finding the right dosage and now I may understand. He continues to tell me to switch to the synthetic formula and I continue to tell him I did not respond well to any forms of the synthetic brands. I am considering switching to Nature-throid, although I know he will be reluctant to help me. Does anyone have any ideas for me to advise my doctor. I am so upset, I was doing so well on the old Armour and now I can not seem to find the right level – I am too high and then too low. Right now at 135 mg I am too low, yet 150 made it too high???
Exasperated
What medication are you taking now? I’d sure like to know as I can no longer get Armour.
Hello,
I’m wondering if the people who are having difficulty with the new Armour formulation are chewing their Armour tablets? I’ve always chewed, rather than swallowed, both the old and tne new, and have had no problems with the new formulation. i would think chewing would get around the problem of difficulty dissolving the tablets, so perhaps it will solve the problem of bioavailability of the active ingredients.
Julie
Thank you for your response. When I was on just t4 I got heart burn so bad and had three scopes to see if I had othe problems and none. I stopped the t4 and that’s when the hearburn left after many tests done and lots of money spent. Other problems on t4. Now after many years the new armour I have back the heart burn and I never had it until I went on ner armour. what could it be in the armour?
I’m speaking for a computerless friend. She has had to go from taking a 1/2 grain and a 1/4 grain to (the only thing she can get) a whole grain. This means cutting them in half then half again. These pills being so small then, turn to crumbs. How is one supposed to know if they are getting the proper amount? Is there any other way?
Diane, I know what it’s like to go this. Sure wish Armour wasn’t reformulated..it’s a terrible inconvenience, hassle and not to mention problem dealing with not feeling great, while you try to find some other options. For most of the ladies who’ve written in, I’ve heard that many have chosen to switch to some other type of Natural Thyroid Hormone. Unfortunately, there is a shortage of Natural Thyroid Hormone that is causing everyone who was in this same situation as you some additional challenges. There are some options on the article on Options for getting Natural Thyroid Hormone Replacement during the shortage that may help. The biggest thing I can pass along to you is don’t wait if you’re not doing great on the new reformulation. See what other medications may work for you, even if you have to work with a compounding pharmacy until this shortage thing is cleared up, but don’t just keep feeling poorly and accepting that as your new normal. From your note you felt great on the Old Armour, which means you can feel great again, you just need to find out which medication will work best for you. Good luck and please keep me posted on how you’re doing. Thank you for sharing.
Hi, I am on the new reform and having alot of problems. It took yrs of feeling terrible when I was on just T4, I asked to take armour now for 5 yrs I felt great!! Now all my problems are back. I don’t know what to do. Can anyone help ? Diane