Thyroid Medication Nature-Throid VS. Armour Thyroid
by patient-advocate
Filed under Thyroid
Armour Thyroid Medication Reformulation Part III
If you’ve been following along with this series on how Armour Thyroid Medication was reformulated, you’ll know that it came as a surprise to patients, including myself, that a medication could simply be reformulated without informing patients, physicians or pharmacists. So, to pick up after the last update, I had a resurgence of all the hypo-thyroid symptoms that I had previously been managing so well while on the naturally desiccated thyroid hormone, Armour Thyroid, and found out that Forest Laboratories, the drug company producing Armour Thyroid had changed the fillers. Since I was obviously not doing well on the new reformulation, the new task at hand became on what to do about replacing Armour Thyroid.
First of all, it’s not that easy to change medications. Especially, if you’re taking a naturally desiccated or non-synthetic thyroid hormone. Most doctors, especially if they don’t have a good understanding of thyroid issues, or simply believe everything that their drug rep tells them, will prescribe a synthetic medication which contains only T4 hormone. Other synthetic hormone preparations may have only T3, but the bottom line is that your body produces both T3 and T4, so many thyroid patients will do better taking a medication that more closely resembles the hormones that your body would produce naturally if it could do so. The other argument that some medical practitioners use is that they will tell patients that it is perfectly acceptable to take a synthetic T4 hormone supplement only because the thyroid gland will convert some of the synthetic T4 to T3. This is a problem for many of us with thyroid disorders because if you are relying on an already malfunctioning thyroid gland to do conversions of hormones for you, it can be problematic to expect that you will get the proper conversions with a thyroid gland that is not working optimally. Not to mention the fact if you talk to a group of thyroid patients, most likely the ones most satisfied with their treatment are those who are taking non-synthetic type/s of hormone replacement. Not all, because the thyroid is a complex organ, and of course, everyone’s body is different, thus the need to adjust dosages and pay attention to patient’s symptoms. But most patients I have interviewed and the thousands of news group postings online seem to reflect a common denominator in that most will feel much better by taking a naturally desiccated thyroid hormone.
Alright, we’ll talk more about the different types of naturally desiccated thyroid hormones in another segment, but for this time, we’re going to focus on Nature-Throid™. After finding out that the thyroid medication that I relied on every day to keep me functioning no longer worked, I got busy and found that there were many thyroid patients who were switching over to Nature-Throid. So I called my pharmacists and explained the situation and found out that because Nature-Throid and Armour are essentially the same active ingredients, that they could most likely just refill my prescription with Nature Throid without my having to schedule another doctor’s visit. My pharmacy actually ended up making a call to my doctors office for me and my doctor just went ahead and wrote out a new prescription and faxed it to the pharmacy and I was able to pick up my new Nature-Throid medication the very next day. It took some adjustment in order to get my dosage correct. Even though theoretically, the Nature Throid is the same “active” ingredients because it has different fillers my body does process it differently and I am now taking 1/4 of a grain less than what I was taking using the Armour Thyroid. But so far, it’s been a few weeks and things are finally getting back to normal in terms of my energy, memory and other symptoms. And no more headaches which is great.
As always if you’re on any type of medication, make sure to listen to the signals your body is telling you and don’t ignore any new side effects even if you think that it “couldn’t be an issue with your medication” because you’ve taken it for years.
And no, there’s not a mis-spelling with the words “Nature-Throid” . The “y” has been left off the word Thyroid, so please make note of this if you’re trying to have your pharmacy order it in for you if it is not in stock and you want to try it as an alternative to Armour Thyroid.
Armour Thyroid Medication Change Part I
Armour Thyroid Medication Reformulation Part II
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I just found this site. Very useful information, thank you! I am one of those not doing so well on the new Armour, but when I was doing some research on Nature-Throid I found information about N-T being reformulated as well, in the same way as Armour…! Are you still on N-T, are you having problems with it or can you recommend it to others? Erfa seems to be an alternative but needs to be imported. Thanks.
Christine
I’ve spent the past year almost trying to find out why I feel lousy on Armour thyroid medicine. Now, come to find out that the formula was changed? This is very discouraging considering how badly it has made me feel. And it sounds like there are so many other people who have had terrible problems with the new Armour thyroid formula also.
My mom was diagnosed with Hashimotos about 10 years ago, but until recently, I’ve been told that my thyroid was “fine”. Yes, I know, I read through this website about how many of you were also told that the thyroid labs were “fine” even if you had so many bad thyroid symptoms. After years of saying I thought I had some issues with my thyroid, today I finally found out that I am also hypothyroid. I don’t have the actual lab numbers yet, but will post them up as soon as I get them. Just wanted to say thanks for the good thyroid info here and I’m sure I will have lots of questions in the future.
I’ve had problems with Armour thyroid medication for 2 years now. I never took the older version so I can’t say if I would have done better with the older formula. My doctor is trying to tell me to go back on Synthroid. Which I really don’t want to do. Anyone tips for me on how to convince my doctor that I still have other options instead of going back to the synthetic thyroid medication?
Thank you for helping other thyroid patients like myself to find out about the new Armour Thyroid. I didn’t know anything about the changes from the company either. And although I have seen my doctor numerous times because of all my hypothyroid symptoms he has not said one word about the Armour possibly being the reason.
Hi, I was researching problems with Armour thyroid and came across your website. I really think I could be having issues with the new thyroid formula. Will ask my doctor to let me try either a compounded thyroid medicine or maybe the newer Thyroid NP that I have been reading about. It’s very hard to know what to do but I am so glad to find out that I’m not the only one who was having trouble with Armour Thyroid.
Re: Carin & adrenals
Hi Carin! Thanks for your response. I know how things can get sometimes. I hope you were able to help out & get the house sold in this market. YES! I would love to know what you are doing for your adrenals. I am taking 5 mg of hydrocortisone 3 times a day. My ferritin hasn’t been checked in a few months. The last labs that I had was 6/21/11 it was 24 (10-291 ng/ml) then checked again on 7/26/11 which was 61 (10-291 ng/ml). Where does ferritin need to be? The labs done on 6/21/11 I was not on a multi vitamin or iron at the time but am now. I will probably have it checked again in the next month or so along with FT3 & FT4. I think the main thing that has helped me is that I have had 2 injections of testosterone & B12. I just wish I could see some results in the weight. I am SO glad that I am feeling much better. I don’t have the fatigue, brain fog, sluggishness that I was having.
Thanks!
Hi Karen,
I’ve had a crazy summer. Was away for a few months helping a relative sell their house and get setup in long term care. Finally back at home and it’s great to be able to check in and see what’s happening with all my fellow thyroid friends! Your labs looked pretty darn good to me but I would have probably stayed at the 2 to 2.5 grain and not raised it unless you had a specific reason for wanting to try the 3 grains. Your Reverse T3 is a bit high but the FT3 which is your “active” thyroid hormone was at a good place at the 3.8 level.
Adrenal wise, you could be having issues and I’m just seeing that you posted some questions about those so I will update you with what I am using for my adrenals if you want to see what I am doing. Did you happen to have your ferritin checked? If you’re feeling better then this is a good sign, sometimes the adrenals being off can affect the weight issues too, and the ferritin of course is always important to see where it is because it can help the thyroid hormone be able to actually get into the cells for us to use it. Hope that helps a bit and do let me know if you want me to give you an update on what I’m doing now for my adrenals.
Hello all,
I was wondering if I could get some suggestions on my labs.
I started taking Thyroid NP on 8/4/11 with one grain. I am currently taking 3
grains but when these labs were drawn I was on 2 to 2.5 grain. My dr just
called today to say to reduce back to 1.5 grain. I don’t know that I agree.
RT3: 173 pg/mL(90-350)
FT3: 3.8 pg/mL (2.4-4.2)
FT4: 0.66 ng/dL (0.50-1.20)
TSH: 0.0400 mcU/mL (0.300-5.00) I know this test doesn’t really matter.
I do not have a thyroid as I took RAI in 2005. I also have a RX for Cytomel.
Would that help if I took that? I still haven’t seen any weight loss as of yet.
Grrr But I am feeling pretty good. No real symptoms to complain about.
Thank you!
Karen
Now I finally understand why my thyroid medicine isn’t working for me anymore. Can you believe it my doctor changed me from Synthroid over to the new Armour but had no idea about the formula change? I’m going in this afternoon and will ask if I can try the new Thyroid NP —the one without any cellulose, because my hair is still falling out on the new Armour. And I just feel all bloated and tired all the time. Glad that I found this information! Thank you.
Zinc Recommendations:
Thanks Charlotte! How do they taste? What qty do you take? Someone else recommended iherb.com for other supplements.
Thanks again!
RE: Zinc Recommendations
Karen, I use this brand of zinc and also love it to prevent colds or even hay fever.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/goodzinc
I think this site is going to shorten the link so I hope this shows up for you as the link is very, very long, so hopefully it will be automatically shortened.
What is a good brand of supplement of Zinc?
Thanks!
Karen, I started dropping some pounds about 2.5 weeks after switching to the Thyroid NP. I also noticed a boost in my energy about 1 week after changing. That’s so good that you’re noticing an improvement in how you feel.
Can you all tell me when you started to see weight loss results after starting Thyroid NP (Acella)? I have been taking it for 2 weeks tomorrow. I started taking 2 grain & have up it by 1/2 then another 1/2 but may go back to 2 1/2. I guess I was thinking I had been taking it longer. I haven’t worked out much since taking it but started back this past Monday and feel pretty good. All in all I am feeling pretty well.
Thanks!!
Fluoride in water
I just read an article in First for Women July 18 issue about a thyroid patient that have the same symptoms as a lot of us brain fog, fatigue, joint/muscle pain, etc. It suggested that we all are on fluoride overload and to switch from tap water to spring water. The article stated that Arrowhead & Crystal Geyser bottled are fluoride-free. It’s worth a try, right? Has anyone else heard this or switched?
She may possibly wish to try getting in utilizing nursing homes and residence health care agencies just search them on the web and go from there. These places generally have high turnovers and are easier to obtain into and get that 1 year she wants even though waiting for the really prosperous jobs. Good luck!
what about bacalar??? its in mexico near chetumal (close to the border with belize)really amazing crystal clear water thanks to the blue cenote
My GYN Dr. referred me to an Endo Dr. that I really didn’t want to see because I know how Endo Dr.’s are but thought I would try. My appointment is next week. I decided to call and ask if this Dr. looks at everything or just TSH. She said she looks at everything but only prescribes Synthroid or Levoxyl & NO armour. Why Why Why??? I told the nurse to cancel my appointment. I do however go back to my NP tomorrow to get lab results but I know I am still not ont he correct dose. We shall wait and see what she says. I just had to vent because I couldn’t believe the endo dr. I am SO glad I called & didn’t WASTE my time.
Can anyone suggest some supplements for adrenal support?
I hope you all are having a great day.
Janice thanks for clearing that up!! I think you are correct, we must be on the correct dose before we can really tell. The first 2 weeks I took the Nature Throid, I had a headache. I didn’t know if it was from that or from some of the supplements that I was on (which I wouldn’t think the supplements would do that) I did just up my dose by 1/2. I do enjoy the gym too and haven’t seen any weight reduction at all by taking Nature Throid. Ugh. I still have a little bit of brain fog, no weight loss, & mid morning & mid afternoon slump. I did have my adrenals checked but won’t have results until next week. The first week or so I tried to take the Nature Throid sublingually but I don’t guess I could ever wait long enough for it to really dissolve & would end up swallowing anyway. No, I didn’t care for the taste but was willing to put up with it but I could not see any results from it but like I said I wasn’t waiting long enough I don’t think. If I can ever get on Acella I will try it sublingually also.
Re: Thyroid NP
Hi Karen, the Thyroid NP is the Acella (the generic thyroid). But no matter which medicine one is on I really do think we have to be on the right dose otherwise it’s hard to know if it’s the medication or the dosing. The one thing that seems pretty easy to figure out from talking to most of you and others is that the new Armour doesn’t seem very effective. I also was ok with the Naturethroid, but on the Thyroid NP I like it better because it seems “softer” when it dissolves and I take mine sublingually so having it dissolve quickly is a plus. The Naturethroid kind of left a chalky taste in my mouth. I guess that’s from the cellulose in it what do you all think? Another way I can tell if the dose and medicine is working for me is if I am able to workout. With the new Armour, I couldn’t hardly move..so working out just seemed exhausting. And I actually enjoy the gym! Can anyone else relate?
Janice,
What is the Thyroid NP? Who is it by? I have been on Nature Throid for about a month & I don’t see any difference. My NP hasn’t upped my dose which I think it needs to be. I am not happy with it so far. I really want to try Acella and hope to in the next few weeks.
Thanks for posting!
I have been on Armour thyroid, Naturethroid, Erfa and now trying the Thyroid NP. So far, I would say I liked both the old Armour and Erfa the best. I’m getting the Thyroid NP because it’s easier to get –I don’t have to mail order that from Canada and my co-worker is on it and she said she feels wonderful since she changed to the Thyroid NP. The new Armour was terrible for me so I’m hoping that I never have to feel that badly again.
Does anyone know of a multivitamin that is the best for hypothyroid people to take, I hate having to take a lot of pills everyday is there one that covers the most that we need?
Thanks all!!
Thanks Bethanie!!! You are a wealth of knowledge!
The NP did put me on DHEA supplement. 30mg once a day for one month then decrease to 15mg daily for 2 months. I went to my GYN for my annual checkup yesterday and asked him about the Progesterone cream. He said since I was on the pill that he didn’t think I needed the cream.
Does anyone else experience headaches with Nature Throid? I seem to have one every day. I am not sure if that’s what is causing it or not. I really want to try the Acella brand. My labs for TSH, FT3 & FT4 were taken when I was still on the 100mg of Synthroid. I didn’t start Nature Throid until 6/23. I was trying to save money by having the thyroid checked before going to NP. She did check my Rev T3 though.
I was even crushing the Nature Throid & that hasn’t seem to help either but I didn’t know to take my Iron & Vitamin C 4 hours from my thyroid medicine.
I just started an Iron Glycinate 29mg twice a day. I will have to look at the brand but I know it is a vegetable cap.
I knew my Testosterone & DHEA were low but getting anyone to do something about it is another story. I even asked the nurse @ my NP’s office. I don’t know that I am getting much out of her. I may be on to yet another Doc soon (UGH).
Thanks for suggesting what to get tested for iron & hormones.
No, I don’t know that anyone has checked my Vitamin B which I want to have done but that is usually a battle.
Yes, I would love to know what to do for adrenal support as far as supplements.
As always Thank you so much Bethanie!!
Re: Still Not Feeling any Better and Gaining Weight
Hi Karen, thanks for posting the lab info. Ok, lots to talk about:-)
1. Your 6/21/11 Labs along with symptoms would certainly indicate that you are still hypothyroid. You want your FT3 at the upper end of the normal range and the FT4 at least midrange.
2. TSH is something that will be suppressed almost always when on natural thyroid hormone. TSH is not showing how much hormone is in your bloodstream and available to your body. It is a pituitary hormone that is a “signaling” hormone that tells the thyroid bland to release thyroid hormone. When TSH is low it means that the pituitary is not telling the body to produce thyroid hormone. What is important to measure is the amount of Free T3 and Free T4 in the body. This is actually the 2 hormones that are available to us to use. TSH is a fairly new measurement, years ago they didn’t even have the TSH to measure. Thyroid patients were diagnosed and treated based upon symptoms and other lab values. So although TSH is supposed to be the standard for thyroid hormone testing and treatment, it has nothing to do with how much thyroid hormone is in your system.
2. Your testosterone is too low, this also can cause fatigue and other issues. Many holistic practitioners are prescribing testosterone cream for women whose labs are in the range yours are. Even though some may say it’s a male hormone, testosterone for women is vital and very necessary.
There are many symptoms but the biggest one is that of lack of energy, fatigue and not feeling well. Dry skin, hair that breaks off easily, mind fog, testosterone that is too low can also contribute to osteoporosis, and a decrease in red blood cells (ie: possibly leading to anemia). Guess what lack of red blood cells causes? Lack of oxygen and energy.
*** I would think asking your NP for a compounded testosterone cream (she can order this prescription from a compounding pharmacy) would be very helpful in your case.
3. DHEAS is too low as well, this hormone is a precursor to testosterone so if you can get your DHEAS level up, then it is likely that you’d eventually see some improvement in your testosterone numbers.
DHEAS is also very low (you are under range) . I would say you probably have some adrenal issues going on. Chronic stress can lead to low levels of DHEAS–and DHEAS is sometimes referred to as the “feel good hormone.” . Furthermore, endocrine function overall is affected by low levels of DHEAS..
In terms of hormone retesting (when it is time to test your thyroid again) : I would ask your NP to make sure that you are getting the following tested
A: Estradiol (during your follicular cycle which is the time between days 3-9)
B: Progesterone (should be tested during the luteal phase (this will be days 14-28)
C: then retest total and free testosterone levels
D: LH and FSH
E: Prolactin
Dose of DHEA is generally 5mg 2x a day. I see patients sometimes being prescribed up to 10-12 mg per day, depending upon the test results.
4. The next time you get your labs, also do ask them to run the full iron panel to include:
a; serum iron
b. TIBC
c. Ferritin
Your ferritin right now is getting lower, which is another problematic finding for thyroid patients. Most of us need ferritin levels at a minimum of 50, some are saying actually around 60-75 is best. There are studies in athletes with low ferritin correlating the low ferritin levels to a decrease in energy and performance.
My favorite iron supplement is: http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron
It is the easiest one on the stomach and can raise ferritin levels nicely in those of us who need iron.
You do need to take iron with Vitamin C, but not within 4 hours of taking your thyroid medicine. Iron binds with thyroid medicine so this would mean you would be getting even less of thyroid meds if you take iron with them.
5. Spreading out your VItamin C dose 4x a day may also be very helpful for your adrenals.
6. I’m going to look to see if I see where you’ve ever had your Vitamin B tested. I’m not a huge fan of pill form VItamin B because you can spend lots of money on supplements and still not absorb it. I like the shots and you can do them using a very tiny diabetic type syringe that feels painful than a mosquito bite!
7. Asking your NP if you can increase to either one and a quarter grains or one and 1/2 grain may be a good thing to discuss. Being too low in the FT3 an FT4 just makes us exhausted and sets us up for other issues down the road in terms of energy and ability to function.
8. The D is ok, but I still like to see it just a bit higher. Toxic levels will not occur unless you go OVER the higher end of the limit. You are no where near that level.
9. You may want to ask your NP for some adrenal support in the form of supplements. I can list some as well if you’d like,but from your Testosterone and DHEAS levels, this is likely one of the big reasons why you are having trouble getting and then staying in a place where you feel better.
I’ll post in a bit about your Reverse T3. Wanted to get this off to you before it got later in the day.
Bethanie,
Here are my latest labs:(the NP didn’t re-test since they were only a week old when she ran all the other test)
6/14/11:
25 Hydroxy D2: <4
25 Hydroxy D3: 63
25Hydroxy D total: 63
TSH:0.0300 (0.300-5.00)
FT4: 0.66(0.50-1.20)
FT3: 3.0 (2.4-4.2)
Labs from 4/5/11
TSH 0.0200 (0.300-5.00)
FT4 0.91 (0.50-1.20)
FT3 4.3 (2.4-4.2)
Thanks for the advice on twice a day if that is the route I need to go. I will ask about the Acella brand.
Hi everyone. Wanted to say hello to you all and to let you know about some exciting news. We are a Interviewing a Thyroid Surgeon Tomorrow: If anyone here has questions about thyroid surgery, or always wanted to ask a thyroid surgeon questions about your thyroid, please go to our facebook page, (Like Us on Facebook) then post your questions. We’ll answer as many as we can and will post an update for you once all the Thyroid Q & A’s are compiled!
Re: Progesterone Question
Hi Karen, Sometimes progesterone can cause an initial weight gain because progesterone at the start stimulate oestrogen which can initially cause some fluid retention. I have a few articles on this–here’s one to start: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1549751/
I didn’t see what your FT3 or Ft4 was this last time when you did the labs. And I know you mentioned that the NP was going to do lots of labs. If you have the others that were done, please post them.
First thing I would have her look at is are you on the appropriate dose of NatureThroid? Some patients also find that if they are so fatigued and not feeling any better, and their labs and other symptoms warrant an increase in medication that they do better by taking for example the one grain tablet in the morning, and then about 5 hours later, either 1/4 of a grain or 1/2 of a grain, (whatever the doctor or health care practitioner has prescribed) and that helps them get through the day without crashing. See your normal thyroid if it were working would be releasing thyroid hormone throughout the day. So sometimes just taking thyroid hormone once a day doesn’t work, and the other issue is your dose appropriate for you.
Thirdly, some people simply are not able to tolerate the cellulose in Naturethroid.
The generic thyroid (by Acella) does not have the cellulose and as such, sometimes will work better for thyroid patients because the cellulose isn’t binding with the thyroid hormone and causing you to not get maximum benefit from taking your thyroid medication.
If you want your NP to prescribe Acella you would ask her to call in a prescription to Walgreens if you have one in your area for the following:
Thyroid NP (Acella) brand
You can use a pill splitter if your NP wants to to take like 1/4 or 1/2 a grain more in the afternoon, as long as she prescribes the proper amount of tablets for you to do so. I find it’s much less expensive to get a prescription written (this is just an example) Thyroid NP (Acella) brand, 1 grain, (2 per day) and then use the pill splitter if your NP wants you to take an additional 1/4 or 1/2 of a grain in the afternoon.
Let me know tomorrow if you will some of your other lab values. Do keep your chin up—I know some days it’s so hard:-)
Re: Why Is My Thyroid Smaller Than Usual (For Tracie) And Pam also, welcome to our thyroid group
I’ll have comments for you tomorrow and thank you for posting information about your thyroid experiences.
Hi Tracie, Normally when a thyroid gland is smaller than normal it can be from the result of something like Hashimotos disease which is an auto-immune condition where one’s immune system actually attacks the thyroid gland itself. Some cases of Hashimotos make the thyroid larger (in which case the enlargement is referred to as a goiter), or in other cases sometimes the thyroid gland can shrink or atrophy. It sounds like they are referring you to an endo to determine the reason for the shrinkage of the thyroid gland, and for treatment.
In terms of whether you should be worried…of course anytime we are told that something is not exactly in the norms then obviously it is hard not to worry. If your condition ends up being diagnosed as Hashimotos, it is getting to be quite common, especially for women as we age.
I just looked over your past labs, and you did have positive TPO Antibodies which is a fairly good indication that this may end up being Hashimotos disease. In that case I would definitely see if your GP will run the
TSH, Free T4, Free T3 and Reverse T3. I have found that sometimes getting a Doctor of Osteopath (just like an MD except, Osteopaths are generally better at using interventions like Natural Thyroid) and making you wait until the end of August to adjust your medication once you know that your thyroid has atrophied seems like it won’t accomplish anything, unless you are feeling well now.
If you aren’t feeling well, and you are not able to do the things you need to do in your life, then I would definitely find someone to do the proper testing for you as a dose change may be in order given the state of your thyroid gland. One of the things that is very important in Hashimotos is to keep the TSH suppressed, and then you need to look at the Free T3 and Free T4, along with your symptoms and how you feel to correctly calculate and adjust the proper dose. It certainly is NOT necessary to wait 6 months for a dose adjustment.
The most important question is “How are you feeling right now?” If you didn’t know about your thyroid scan, (I know hard to do) but just pretend that you didn’t have that information. How do you feel? If less than optimal, then I would push for more comprehensive thyroid testing now, before your endo visit, and no don’t take the answer that the endo needs to do it. That’s simply not true.
Karen and Tracie,
I just got back from a conference, so will respond to both of you a bit later today. Karen, hang in there, it’s sometimes a bit complex but the pieces will come together. Let me take some time to look over your latest labs and what you posted since I was away and I will give you some feedback that I hope you can take to your NP and see if you can come up with a gameplan. Believe me I know how frustrating the weight issue is. It seems like sometimes no matter what we eat or how much we exercise–the body just doesn’t cooperate. The good news is that once everything is in order generally I see people who can loose the weight by doing the regular things like watching their diet and exercising normally. I gained weight too while trying to get my thyroid issues straightened out. Then it was amazing how easy the weight came off, but it did take some patience and persistence on my part. But it was hard for me to have either of those 2 things when my clothes felt tight and I couldn’t make any headway on the weight….so I know how you feel. Will see if I have anything you can ask about. Thanks for posting:-)
Feeling very frustrated & not knowing what to do. My new NP put me on a compounded Progesterone Cream and within 6 days I have gained 4 lbs. That is not the way I want to be going. I am still unhappy that I am not seeing the results that I thought I would with Nature Throid. I am still fatigued but besides that & weight gain I guess those are the only two symptoms that I have. I wanted to cry so bad when I stepped on the scale at the gym yesterday. It was all I could do to do my workout. Needless to say I did not use the cream last night like I was suppose to. I have a call in to the NP so we shall see what she says.
Thanks for listening
Still trying to get my body straightened out. Will it ever happen? I have been on 1 grain of NatureThroid since 6/23/11 and haven’t seen much improvement. I can’t even keep my eyes open right now. When will it end? I would love to curl up in a corner & take a nap. I hate feeling like this. I am taking new supplements to help with certain but I am not sure if they are working.
I had a thyroid ultrasound and they said my thyroid is smaller than it is suppose to be,that it is atrophying. What does this mean and what causes it. They are sending me to an endo and didn’t say much more should I be worried my appointment is not until August 29th.
Thanks for your help!!!
Armour thyroid caused me all kinds of problems too. Actually, my new doctor from a few weeks ago wanted to put me back on Armour even though I have been taking Naturethroid and feeling very well lately. He didn’t even know that there was a change in the formula. I printed out some material from this site so that he would know about the Armour change in ingredients.
Making the change from Armour thyroid for me is quite difficult. It’s a medication I’ve used for 8 years. But for whatever reasons–I’m falling apart on it now. Hair is so thin, it falls out in the shower and when I’m in the car. My running times are getting slower and slower and I can’t even get through my entire run without stopping to walk because I’m out of breath. So this week I’m going to ask for another thyroid medicine. I’m glad that I read through your experiences here so that I know I’m not the only one having trouble with Armour thyroid.
I’m going into my doctor’s office this week to have thyroid labs run. It will be the first time getting lab results since changing from Armour to Naturethroid. I feel much better. It will be interesting to see how or if my lab results will reflect that.
Oops, I forgot Antibody
Thyroglobulin Antibody <20 (0-40 IU/mL)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody 20 (0-35 IU/mL)
Here are the results from my latest labs 6/21/11:
DHEA-Sulfate and DHES 23 (35-430 ug/ml)
Ferritin 24 (10-291 ng/ml)
Testosterone <20 (0-65 ng/dl) which is too low to test free testosterone
Sex hormone Bind Glob 122 (18-144 nmol/L)
Progesterone <0.1
RT3 146 (90-350 pg/mL)
Any suggestions? What should my RT3 be along with the rest of these?
Thanks!!
Carin,
I haven’t noticed too much of a difference yet but I did seem to feel better today. Does anyone get headaches from Nature Throid? I have gotten a few but today’s I think may have to do with work but I did wake up with one Monday and had it all day.
Also I would like to get feedback on the pros & cons of topical Progesterone. I have my other labs that I will post later. I did find out that my DHEA was low but don’t have the numbers with me. My NP suggested to take 30mg daily of a DHEA supplement for one month then decrease to 15mg for 2 months. She also suggested 29 mg Iron Glycinate daily.
Thanks!
I hope everyone has had a good day
Karen, thank you for sharing your info on the Nurse Practitioner! Have you noticed any difference at all yet on the Naturethroid?
Tracie, thanks for posting your labs. As soon as I get a break from work today that’s longer than a few minutes, I’m going to post some feedback for you.
Hope everyone is having a great day!
Got some test results, I would like to get your opinions on.
Cortisol 13.2ug/dL range 2.3-19.4
ACTH,Plasma 19.6pg/mL range 7.2-63.3
Prolactin 7.2ng/mL range 4.8-23.3
Growth Hormone,Serum range 0.4ng/mL range 0.0-6.0
I dont know what all those test have to do with thyroid levels but maybe some of you do.
Here are some other test results
Thyroxine T4 T Free, Direct, S 0.74ng/dL range 0.82- 1.77
TSH 0.390uIU/mLrange 0.450-4.500
Thyrotropin Receptor Ab, Serum <0.51IU/L range 0.00-1.75
Thyroid Peroxidase (tpo) Ab 82IU/mL range 0-34
I asked for the t3 and free t3 but for some reason that was not tested
The note on my results from the nurse said i needed to see a holistic specialist to adjust meds for hypothyroidism since oversupplemented.This was my first visit to this doctor and he refuse to treat with natural thyroid meds like nature throid which i am currentlly taking but my regular doctor GP who let me try nature throid wants to leave my meds alone for six months what should I do.
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A DOCTOR NEAR CULLMAN ALABAMA WHO TREATS PATIENTS WITH NATURAL THYRIOD MEDS AND KNOWS HOW TO TEST AND TREAT USING NATURE-THROID?
I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE ANY HELP ANYONE CAN GIVE ME !!!!
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!!!
Bethanie,
I am not sure if you want me to post her information her or not. She wants me to eat a high protein breakfast and when I work out to not depleat my body. If I walk on the treadmill she doesn’t want my heart rate above 130. I said so I can go to the gym and lollygag. She laughed & said yes. She suggested if I wanted salt to eat it but she recommended Iodized Sea Salt. Do not eat fruit in the morning like pineapple but berries are ok. She recommended a good B Complex Vitamin & Buffered Vitamin C. For some reasson I quit taking the Vitamin C that you told me about but started back today. The nurse gave me a “how to” for an ascorbate flush with the Vitamin C. I am not sure about doing the flush. I bought the B Activ vitamin that she had by Xymogen, it has a vegetable capsule.
That’s all I can think of for now.
The Center for Proactive Medicine
Paige Adams, MSN, FNP, B-C
1916 Patterson St. Suite 203
Nashville, TN 37203
615-331-1973
Hi Karen,
I’m so glad that your visit with the Nurse Practitioner went well and that she ordered a good many labs. And that she asked you how you felt. That is awesome. And yes, I would love to know her name and contact info. Anything else you can share about how the visit went would be also helpful to know. Thank you so much for the update and being able to come online and read this has just brightened my day:-)
Bethanie,
Thanks for the update on how Acella is working for you. I meant to tell my NP about this drug but forgot. I will at my next appointment.
Thanks Carin & Bethanie!!! The appointment went well and she is ordering ALL kinds of labs. I am finally getting my DHEA checked along with adrenals. They took 10 tubes of blood. I have never had so many tubes taken at one time. She is very thorough and yes she asked how I was feeling and sleeping. I got my RX for Nature Throid today so we shall see how that works and what the results for my labs are. I am excited again and hope everything will be on the up and up. Bethanie, I was glad my Vitamin D was up and I hope it goes up a little more. She also said she would like to see my FT3 a little higher. She is also testing Reverse T3. Thanks to ALL of you on here who have helped me to know what to look for and how to be a better advocate. Bethanie, if you want this NP’s information to add to your list I will be glad to send it to you.
Thanks again!!!
Karen, I couldn’t get to the computer yesterday, but saw your message this morning. Oh, I hope your appointment with the new Nurse Practitioner went well. I will keep checking to see if you’re able to post an update. For me it’s always a mixture of anticipation and also a bit of apprehension when visiting a new doctor or NP. Kind of like…are they really going to be informed about the thyroid? I hope you are feeling well and again that the doctor’s visit was a good one!
Karen, Your labs look ok, although I like to see the FT3 at the upper end of the range without going over, especially if someone still has symptoms of being hypothyroid. Your Vitamin D, 25Hydroxy looks better, it would also be fine to be a bit higher if your lab’s range goes to 100 which most of them do. I am keeping my Vitamin D at around 80, but yours is looking better so congratulations on that!
Can you see if your NP will order the full iron panel for you which would be
Serum Iron, TIBC, and ferritin
Thyroid: When she reruns labs including all of these: TSH, FT3, FT4, TPO antibodies, and TG Antibodies, and Reverse T3
B12
B6
Folic Acid
In terms of medications I am finding that I am really LOVING the new Generic Thyroid, manufacturer Acella.
If you want to try it you can ask your NP for a prescription written like this
Natural Dessicated Thyroid Hormone (ask her to write the doseage in grains, NOT mg) If you are taking for example 1.5 grains or may need to increase what I do is ask them to write the dose for 2 (1) grain tablets, and then I can split them. Walgreens for sure has this medication but you have to ask the pharmacist to pull it up in their system as simply “Thyroid” then verify it is the natural dessicated thyroid type, manufacturer Acella.
NatureThroid is still fine, but I think I like the one above –a bit better. The above (Acella) brand has no cellulose in it so for some of us that really helps with the absorption.
The other thing as I always say is to tell your new NP how you FEEL. Labs are only part of the picture, the other really really critical thing is how are your symptoms doing?
Can’t wait to hear how your appointment goes Karen. Good Luck!
Here are my latest labs:
6/14/11:
25 Hydroxy D2: <4
25 Hydroxy D3: 63
25Hydroxy D total: 63
TSH:0.0300 (0.300-5.00)
FT4: 0.66(0.50-1.20)
FT3: 3.0 (2.4-4.2)
Labs from 4/5/11
TSH 0.0200 (0.300-5.00)
FT4 0.91 (0.50-1.20)
FT3 4.3 (2.4-4.2)
I was gladly surprised to see my 25Hydroxy D at 63. It was 53 on 10/13/10. Any suggestions on these results? I am seeing the holistic nurse practioner today. yeah!!! I have never been so excited to go to the doctor before.
Thanks!
Naturethroid has been wonderful for me. Back when I was first diagnosed with thyroid disease in 2006 my doctor put me on Synthroid. I didn’t feel any improvement at all on Synthroid so finally after a long time went by I was able to get on Armour thyroid. Things were so great using the old Armour. But after the Armour medicine was changed–I was back to being very tired and feeling badly. So again, I had to change thyroid medicines. Naturethroid is working very well for me and I feel energetic and optimistic again.
I’m so grateful to have found this site about thyroid problems. My hair has been falling out in clumps. In the car, on the couch, in the shower. I have been on the new Armour for about 2 years now. And nothing was ever discussed by my OB/GYN or my Internist about the new formula. I wonder if my hair and energy problems are related to the Armour thyroid medicine? I am so glad that you all have talked about your experiences. I am going to look into this some more as soon as possible. Otherwise I will be heading to the wig store I’m afraid.
Can I take Synthroid sublingually? I never have felt right since my doctor put me on Synthroid for my thyroid medicine and I was wondering if Synthroid works sublingually.
Compounded thyroid isn’t my favorite choice either for thyroid medicine. I switched to compounded after Armour changed the formula. It has cost me a lot more than my old Armour used to cost, and I’m not sure if I’m even on the right dose. Do you think I should ask to switch to Naturethroid or maybe the newer generic thyroid?
I think it’s the fillers in the new Armour that make it not work very well. I was going to switch thyroid medicines anyway but I had not had a change to get in to see my doctor. And last week when I went to the pharmacy to get my refill of Armour thyroid–the pharmacy filled it with the new generic thryroid. The one from Acella! I think that this has helped me alot already. And I didn’t have to get a new prescription. I guess the pharmacy can choose the generic or you can ask for it if you want to try something else than the new Armour thyroid.
Sarah, I felt much much better after changing to NatureThroid. If I recall correctly I think I too felt better my first day! I know it seems like we’re afraid to hope that something like changing just the brand of a medicine will help, but there are many thyroid patients I think from what I’m learning who also had problems with the Armour. I hope you continue to feel better each day, and make sure to check your labs and talk to your doctor about how you feel. I had to raise my thyroid dose by a whole grain (not all at once) but I think my hormones got so messed up from the Armour that I had to increase my thyroid med slowly and now feel really good.
After being on Armour thyroid for the past 4 years I am finally trying another natural thyroid medicine. Picked up my Naturethroid prescription this morning from my pharmacy. I waited until I picked it up to take my dose. So far, so good, I wonder if anyone else has noticed a difference the first day? Or could it just be that I want it to work and so I think I already feel a bit better? I used to love the old Armour thyroid but for some reason the new one just didn’t work for me either. My doctor wouldn’t change it until my TSH went up to 9. So I’m hoping that I’ll get some good results with the Naturethroid.
Re: Pseudohypoparathyroidism Questions
Dear Pseudohypoparathyroidism, welcome to our patient to patient thyroid support group. Glad to have you here with us. Please use your first name when posting next time instead of the name of the issue you are having so that it is easier to properly address your questions. You can also use your first name last initial if there are others on the board her with the same first name.
Now, onto pseuohypoparathyroidsm. Have you been told specifically which type you have? Ie: Type 1a or type 1b? Were you given blood testing, genetic testing, or MRI scans? Let us know specifically what was tested in your cae, and we’ll do our best to help.
Do you know what the exact numbers are from your latest calcium blood work along with the ranges? Are you on any type of calcium supplementation?
In terms of feeling like one is destined to have problems the way I look at any medical issue is that sometimes there are tendencies we all have that can be helped. Meaning that even if you have a particular diagnosis it doesn’t mean that our case will be the worst scenario. Sometimes doctors cannot explain why certain patients have better outcomes than others. So although it’s hard whenever you get a diagnosis not to be alarmed, it can be useful to find out different things that you can do to help support your healing so that you can have the best outcome possible. I know when I found out I had Hashimotos it seemed as if every possible problem you could have with it–I had. But now, finally things are evening out and I actually feel really great. So hang in there, let us know more info and we also have some nurse volunteers who are also thyroid patients who may be able to explain things for you in a non medical way if we know more about your particular situation.
I ended up being just not too long ago identified as having Pseudohypoparathyroidism nevertheless for the longest time period physicians advised my family that I had Pseduopseudohypoparathyroidism. I don’t fully grasp any of this. Does this mean I’ll have kidney problems? All the websites I’ve seen just say the same medical jargon over and over. I’m so confused! Just what is the big difference? Can anyone help me determine what’s going on? Thanks to any person who can help!
Armour thyroid used to work so wonderfully for me. But I was not made aware of the change in formulas, and when I gained 17 pounds–ugggh, and my hair was falling out again, I began to ask questions. Finally after lots of late nights and reading, I stumbled upon this website and others and found out that the formula had been changed. I could tell the smell was different and it became more chalky than before. I spent almost another year trying to find a thyroid medication that was working as well as the old Armour. I finally am on the new Generic Natural thyroid by Acella and have to share that it really is a good medicine. I have dropped 12 pounds already and feel good again. So anyone who is feeling defeated or tired, just keep at it. There is hope!
I am still battling doctors and trying to find one that will prescribe a natural dessicated one. I think I have found one but am not sure when I can get in to see her. Has anyone ever taken Thyroid Health Formula by Natural Factors formulated by Dr. Michael Murray? I have had two medical professionals tell me that my TSH is too supressed. I was on 125 Synthroid & 25 Cytomel and they reduced my Synthroid to 100. The hair loss is almost gone but I am still having a problem with weight gain and I work out several times a week.
Thanks,
Karen
Re: Doctor Changed Thyroid Medication Dose – For Cynthia
Hi Cynthia, you are so welcome and thanks for the update on your doctor changing your Acella Thyroid dose. Have you noticed that the heart flutters have decreased? I know you may have just recently changed your dosing but do you feel any better at all yet? It will be important for your doc to keep monitoring how you feel and your blood work because sometimes what happens is that the body “adapts” to the dose and at some point you may need to increase again, but maybe just 1/4 of a grain and not an entire half. The thyroid isn’t like some other medications where you get the dose right and then stay on that forever. More often than not there is some adjustment that goes on, but I’m so glad that your doctor did reduce your dose because being either over medicated or under-medicated can really play havoc on how we feel.
Anytime you want additional info or support, please know that that’s what all of us are here for. And if you have friends who are thyroid patients and who need more information or help, feel free to pass on our links to anyone who may either have a thyroid problem, be wondering if they could have a thyroid problem, or need help with an existing thyroid problem.
RE: Acella
Cynthia, thank you for helping me with the Acella thyroid question. I think I am going to try it. Trying to work everything out so that the thyroid medication works has me exhausted! I am just glad that I’ve found other patients who are going through a similar experience. I hope that you are going to have an improvement in how you are feeling as well Cynthia. Thanks again.
Carin: Thanks again for all of your help. I really appreciate it. My doc cut my Acella dose in half and told me to go off all caffeine for a while. I will check back in with you when I get my next lab work done. In the mean time I will look at some of the suggested reading you mentioned. Thanks again for all of your help!!!
Georgia: I was getting Armour at Walgreens and then when I went to renew my prescription they just gave me Acella instead. So if you want Acella go to Walgreeens.
Re: Acella Generic Thyroid
Cynthia, I was hoping you could help me with a question that I have about how to get Acella Natural Thyroid. Did you specifically ask your doctor for a prescription for that type of thyroid medicine or was it just substituted at your pharmacy for something else? Did you use a national brand pharmacy or did you have to special order the Acella? I’m thinking about trying it because it does not have the cellulose in it, but I’m having trouble finding a pharmacy that carries it and not sure my doctor will go for changing my thyroid meds yet again.
Re: Thyroid Lab Tests
Hi Cynthia, here is the list of tests that are recommended for thyroid patients. The first section (thyroid tests themselves) will not need to be redone until 4-6 weeks from the time that your dose is re-adjusted. As I mentioned yesterday, hopefully the endo or your doctor will have spoken to you already about your dose or will do so.
Thyroid Testing:
Free T3
Free T4
TSH
Reverse T3 (All of the above should be used to check dose changes)
Then if one has not ever had thyroid antibody testing you would need:
Thyroid Perioxidase (TPO) Antibody Testing
Thyroblogulin (TG) Antibody Testing
Also necessary to look at are the following
Iron Panel: Including Serum Iron, TIBC and Ferritin along with CBC
Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy – This can be tested again to see if your levels come up after you have rec’d instructions for how much to take from your doctor
You may also want to ask for DHEAS to be tested.
Vitamin B12, B6 and Folic Acid
Also, adrenal testing is important. If you’re going to an endo they may just do a one time cortisol test, which is better than nothing but not that great to measure adrenal status because you want to see how your adrenals function throughout the day. Saliva testing is best for this. Let me know if you need more help on where to get adrenal testing if you wish to do the saliva testing.
Those would be the main ones that are the most important to look at.
Re: Thyroid Books – For Cynthia and Anyone Else Who’s a Thyroid Patient
Hi Cynthia, Here is that link to the thyroid books I was talking about.
Meant to post these last night but I think they were doing some updates on the website yesterday.
Here are the thyroid books: http://www.hospitalsoup.com/thyroidresources
Most of the thyroid folks whom I interact with really like: The one by Dr. Shames, Dr. Mark Starr, Dr. Broda Barnes (that one is really interesting because it has research from a long time ago which talks about how you have to use the Free T3 and Free T4 and not just the TSH for dosing and other things. I also really like the B12 book. Haven’t read the Stop the Thyroid Madness one but some like that. So anyway wanted to give you just some options on how to get some additional material and/or read some more on your own so that when you go into the endos office or any doctor you can be more prepared to counter some of the information that you may encounter that is not helpful when it comes to thyroid treatment.
Will post the tests here shortly in a 2nd message for you. Happy Saturday everyone!
Re: High Free T3 and Other Thyroid Labs and Vitamin D
Hi Cynthia, ok thanks for posting the lab info. Now, your Free T3 is actually too high, which may very well explain the heart “flutter” issue. You want Free T3 at the top of the range, but you don’t want it over range. What could very well be happening is that the Acella, Generic Thyroid unlike Armour or NatureThroid does not have cellulose in it, so it can actually work “better” for some people, meaning that it is absorbed and gets into the tissues and cells easier. Even if you were on the same dose of Armour, the new Armour just has not in my opinion, worked very well for most people, and folks were going hypothyroid on the new Armour. If your doc left you on the same dose as Armour and put you on the Generic Acella, this could be the issue–you may be taking too much of the Acella.
I’ll write more later, with the other tests but wanted to get this part right off to you before it got too late.
1. Has your doctor’s office seen these results? Did you not get a call from them yet?
2. If the answer to #1 is no, and you are having those heart fluttters, I would call the endo’s office and ask to speak with the doctor on call. I would tell them what your Free T3 results are and ask them if you can cut your dose in 1/2 for tomorrow. That is just my opinion, I can’t tell you what to do medically, but if those were my results and I was having the heart palps, with that FT3 so high, then the doctor should be adjusting your dose downward.
Let me know if you can get in touch with someone this evening to see if you can get your dose ok’d to decrease it for tomorrow and until you can get back into the endo’s office to discuss the other tests.
Having too much thyroid hormone in your blood can also make you feel miserable. Hope that helps, I’ll write up the suggested labs as well.
Carin: I looked at my results again and now that I know what I am looking for, here they are:
T3 Free is 8.2 Range is 2.4-4.2
T4 Free is 1.22 Range is 0.71-1.85
TSH is 0.06 Range is 0.45-4.67
Vit D 25 hydroxy 31 Range 30-80
Prolactin 65.4 Range is 5.2-26.5
Age 41
Pituitary tumor removed in 1990
I have taken 50,000 units of vit d before that the doc prescribed. That was a while a go. As for my prolactin we just monitor it and it seems to bounce around but the levels are never more than a 80. I have taken growth hormone shots for a year, but still did not feel good, so I stopped taking it as it was very expensive. My endo has done a lipid profile six months ago but everything there looked good. I had a bone scan to check for osteoporosis and that looked good. This is the worst I have felt in a couple of years. I just keep thinking it might have something to do with changing from Armour. I have never felt this heart flutter thing either until now. I have never heard of adrenal fatigue and did not know this could be an issue. I will ask the doc about this too.
If you can list the other blood work I should ask for, I will talk with my endo on Monday. Again thanks for all of your help.
Re: Vitamin D and Thyroid Labs
Hi Cynthia, you are very welcome. Glad to help. I wouldn’t have survived I don’t think if I hadn’t had other thyroid patients helping me.
Here’s some feedback for you:
1. Your Vitamin D (hopefully they tested the correct one, the correct test name is Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy)
but if your’s is 31 with a range of (30-80) this is one reason you would feel very badly. Low energy, lowered immunity and a greater susceptibility towards other medical conditions and disease processes is found in Low Vitamin D3 levels. And within range is not acceptable, what you want is to be at the upper end of normal, at least 75% of the upper range. You can also have joint and bone pain with levels as low as yours, so I would address that s quickly as possible.
Now, sometimes if you are NOT seeing a holistically focused MD or an Integrative Medicine Specialist who could be an MD, DO, PA or NP, when the practitioner sees vitamin D levels like yours, the first thing they do is write a prescription for synthetic Vitamin D. You do not want a Vitamin D prescription. I can send you references a bit later today if you’d like to have them on hand. Bottom line, the over the counter Vitamin D is safer, better absorbed and will fix the problem in a much better manner than any prescription you could take. Liquid is #1, then gelcaps, and finally tablets as the last choice. I have some tips on how to take Vitamin D I can also post later if you’d like. Dose should be discussed with your doctor, but generally in cases like yours they will start one on 50,000 iu a week, (the vitamin D I get is 2000 iu per drop so in that case if someone were on a 50,000 iu a week, they would take 1 drop of the 2000 iu a week for 5 days a week.) Just as an example–you of course will need to check with your own doctor and no one should just start taking Vitamin D without being tested.
2. Could you please let me know if your Triiodothyronin says the word FREE in front of it or somewhere on the lab result form for that result? If not, then this is not the correct lab, what is current and used by the progressive thyroid doctors is the FREE Triiodothyronin otherwise known as Free T3, and then you also need the FREE T4. If they are just testing T3 and T4 without the word Free, this is not the test that you want to have done.
3. If no one has ever tested you for thyroid antibodies then this definately should be done, along with the others that I listed earlier. I will type up a full list for you a bit later and also post those, and yes, I would ask for all of the things on the list I will give to you to be tested. One of my biggest mistakes in my own care was expecting that my endo or even GP would know alot about the thyroid. Unfortunately most of them don’t.
It takes asking questions, like you are doing, and standing up for yourself and being your own advocate to get the proper care. I’ll also post some good books for you later. I have some work assignments to finish up but will post as soon as I can for you.
Also, have a friend with a pituitary tumor as well who also has thyroid issues. Are you taking medication to control the pituitary tumor and how have your prolactin levels been doing over the years? Are you able to keep yours fairly stable, or do you have to adjust your medication frequently? Do you have headaches?
Note: anything I share is simply patient to patient info and should not be construed as medical advice. This is a support group for thyroid patients and as such we help patients become informed about their thyroid and how to become advocates for themselves.
Carin: Thanks so much for the help. I looked on my rx bottle and it said Acella. So that is what I am taking. I had my Vit D test done yesterday and it came back saying 31 the range is 30-80. I just got another test result for Triiodothyronin and it says 8.2 the range is 2.4-4.2.
I had a pituitary tumor removed 20 years ago. I also have high prolactin. I see an endocrinologist, but he has never tested me for adrenal stuff or iron. I am seeing him on Monday so I can always ask him for them. I just don’t feel good so I will do anything at this point.
Re: Naturethroid and still not feeling well questions
Hi Cynthia, thanks for posting your question, and it can be challenging trying to figure out some of these thyroid issues.
I know sometimes it can be confusing to figure out, but let’s try to see which thyroid medicine you are actually taking.
Naturethroid and Acella are two different thyroid medications.
1. Naturethroid is made by RLC Labs
2. Acella is another manufacturer of a different natural thyroid medication
Both Acella and RLC Labs manufacture a natural dessicated thyroid medication, but they are different products.
Having hair that is falling out, not feeling good etc, and being very tired can all be indicative of hypothyroid symptoms. The fluttery feeling in the chest can happen if there is an adrenal issue that has not been addressed and/or if iron and ferritin are too low or a combination of several things. Sometimes you can also get that feeling if either on too much or too little thyroid medication, so taking into account all your symptoms, there seems to be a lot of room for improvement so that you can get back to feeling well.
The TSH being low is not concerning, with any natural thyroid medication the TSH actually will be supressed. And that just means that the pituitary is not sending signals to the thyroid to product more thyroid. The TSH does not measure actual hormone levels of thyroid in your blood. It is just a “signaling” measurement. And a pituitary one, not a thyroid one at that.
Now, the numbers you will need to look at are:
The FREE T4 and the Free T3: Have you had both of these tested and if so what are the numbers?
You also need to know if you have had both the TPO Antibodies run, and the TG antibodies, along with serum iron, TIBC, Ferritin, B12, and Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy
Also, have you had your adrenals tested?
Let me know a bit more about what you have and have not had in terms of your labs and I’m sure that will help.
I have switched to Naturethroid by Acella and am taking 60mg. I have been taking this since I changed from Armour in December 2010. I am not feeling good. My hair is falling out and I am very tired all the time. I also have this weird flutter feeling in my chest. I just got my blood work done and my TSH is 0.06 the level for normal from this lab is 0.45-4.67. My T4 is 1.22 normal level is .71-1.85 I am still waiting for the rest of my blood work to be done. I was just wondering if maybe I should change to synthroid or if anyone else has some ideas?
Re: The New Generic Thyroid Medicine
Tamara, thank you for sharing that information. I was thinking about trying the new generic thyroid but I was too afraid to change:-) Naturethroid works ok for me but I’m always hoping that there is something better and it still does not give me the same kind of feeling like I used to have when I was using the old Armour thyroid.
Re: Which Thyroid Medicine is Better?
Cynthia and other fellow thyroid patients. I’ve tried almost all the thyroid medicines. Synthroid, Levothyroxine, Armour, compounded T3/T4, Naturethroid, Efra etc. And please know that although everyone is different, I really think the best of them all is the new generic Thyroid made by Acella. It doesn’t have cellulose in it, so it absorbs super quick sublingually. I have energy, my brain is less foggy, I feel really great. The new generic reminds me of the old Armour before they went and changed it. If anyone wants more info please let me know.
Re: Differences Between Compounded And Armour
Cynthia, glad to help and you are very welcome. A few things you may want to check, just so that you have all the information.
1. Call your compounding pharmacy and ask what fillers were/are used in your compounded T3/T4 medication.
2. Also ask the exact ratio of how much T3/T4 are in one grain
3. If you wish, you can make a post here with the answers that you received along with your current thyroid medication dose (ie: 1 grain, 1.5 grains, or whatever your current dose is)
4. It may also be a good idea to post your most recent labs to get some feedback on them : if you are under-dosed, then it doesn’t matter which thyroid medication you are on-if you don’t have enough thyroid hormone –you don’t feel well. (Note: this can also happen if you are taking too much, but labs and how you feel give a good indication of where one falls on the scale etc.)
The other really big factor with regards to thyroid medication is to make sure that you are receiving the appropriate dose and that other things like B12, Vitamin D, and Ferritin, Iron, and adrenals are all adequately tested and addressed if necessary.
But a big first start for you to figure out what could be going on with how you feel etc, is to find out about your fillers, in the compounded, and then list out your most recent labs and post them. Getting some additional info and feedback on these things could potentially speed up your search to find out what’s wrong significantly:-)
Thank you so much for the information about compounded versus Naturethroid and Armour. I have been on compounded for almost a year and am not totally happy yet but have decided it’s definitely better than Synthroid. I left a message with my doctor indicating that I’d like to try Naturethroid because I found out my insurance will pay for it—and many people on the site seem happy with it. Hopefully, she will agree to let me give it a try. Thanks again so much!
Re: Differences Between Naturethroid or Armour and Thyroid Medication You Get at Compounding Pharmacy
Good morning Cynthia, Totally an excellent question, and I am also very glad that you asked. Here’s an article that outlines the key differences between getting your thyroid medicine from a compounding pharmacy where it is made up individually vs purchasing some other type of natural thyroid medication like Naturethroid, Armour Thyroid, the Canadian Thyroid, the new US Generic Thyroid or others that are already manufactured.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-conditions/compounded-thyroid-vs-other-thyroid-meds/
Re: Difference Between Compounded Thyroid and Natural Thyroid Tablets
Hi Cynthia, that is actually a SUPER question. And I think it deserves a detailed answer. I’m at work this afternoon but I’ve asked Bethanie if she could write up the pros and cons of compounded thyroid vs taking thyroid tablets and she said she would be delighted to do so. Look for the answer either tonight or tomorrow and I’ll also update you here as soon as it is listed.
How are you doing? Were you able to make any progress with your doctor yet? Energy wise and all any changes?
I know this is probably a stupid question and I should know the answer….but what is the difference between my compounded T3/T4 that I get from the compounding pharmacy and Nature Thyroid or Armour?
I decided to make an appointment whith my gynecologist and see if i can get her to check my thyroid out for me its time for my check up anyway. That is for next month so any suggestion on what I need checked would be greatly appreciate. If she doesnt want to deal with my throid I’m going to see if she can recommend somene who can help me. I think my general practitioner isnt concerned and isn’t listening to me. Maybe my gyno will help. Thanks All.
I have been on Synthroid also since my doctor told me that I had to go back on synthetic thyroid medicine after my TSH went up to 12 when taking the new Armour thyroid. My TSH has gone done on Synthroid but I don’t feel much better. Finally I was able to get my Reverse T3 tested and that is very high. Could anyone explain to me why this happens and could that be the reason for why I still feel awful?
I also had my thyroid labs done this past week and my doctor said to stay on the same dose. But My Free T4 is very low–is this normal? And if it should be different why is my doctor saying it is ok? It is so confusing to me why every time I go in for my check I’m told that my levels are good but I don’t feel very good.
Re: Still Feeling Tired – For Tracie
Hi Tracie, I’ll definitely write more later…just have a few minutes right now, but based soley on your FT4 level — you are still hypothyroid which means you would need more thyroid medication not less. However, you can’t just look at the FT4, you need to look at the FT3 which is an even more important marker, because it is the FT3 which is the “active” thyroid hormone in our bodies. That is what gives us our “get up and go” our energy etc. But it’s also important to know your ferritin level etc, (along with some other things because that can impact how your thyroid hormone is utilized.)
I’ll write more on what you can do re: getting further testing and also some things you can document/test yourself like using your temperature a bit later.
Hang in there..I know it’s incredibly hard getting the right treatment. But most of us have been in your shoes before…..
Carin, I forgot to tell you how I am feeling. I still feel pretty tired most of the time thanks for asking.
Tracie
Carin, when you say my T4 are still to low does that mean I need more a higher dose of naturethroid or a lower dosage?
Thanks
Tracie
Carin, Thanks for you reply, I printed off the list that was given to me on this site of test to run and I thought he was going to test them but when I got a copy of the test result he had tested FT4, TSH, glucose , bun,creatinine, sodium, potassium, chloride, carbon dioxide, bun/creat ratio, calcium, total,protein, albumin, A/g ratio , globulin, ast (sgot),alt(spt),alk. phosphatase, total biirubin, gfr caucasian, gfr african american can you get the B 12 and ferritin tested whith out your doctor doing it because he told me he is going to leave my medication the same and come back in 6 months what should I do?
Thanks,
Tracie
Re: Are My Thyroid Labs Ok?
Tracie, hi good to hear from you again. Did your doctor ONLY test your Free T4, and your TSH?
If so, those are not the proper tests in order to know what is going on with your thyroid.
Based on just those results, your Free T4 is still too low—the TSH is not a useful marker without taking into consideration your Free T3, Free T4, whether or not you have antibodies etc.
Just looking at those numbers your Free T4 is still too low, but you can’t just look at that–it’s important to see what your Free T3 was also.
Were you ever able to get ferritin, and B12 tested along with a full iron panel?
All these things are important and if your doctor is not doing comprehensive testing–then you are being shortchanged and it’s hard to get everything into balance.
I’m not sure if I had posted some books last time we talked. Here is a link to many good ones:
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/thyroidresources
I particular like the ones by Dr. Shames, Dr. Mark Starr, and Dr. Broda Barnes.
The others are all very good also, but those were ones I really like. Also the one on B12 is good just to also know more about how B12 can effect your body.
And even another really important part is to look not just at your labs but to see how you feel. Which by the way how are you feeling?
I finally got retested for my thyroid and my TSH is 0.25 on a range of .0470 – 5.010 and my free FT4 is 0.77 on a range of 0.89-1.76 is this good my doctor said he is going to leave my med. dosage where it is at.
thanks Tracie
I think I had seen somewhere that others were also having leg cramps if you were diagnosed with a thyroid issue…is that correct? I’ve been getting terrible leg cramps after exercise. I am getting potassium in the form of a banana every day. Is this enough or is there anything else I can do?
Dr Broda Barnes Books from his Foundation
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/drbrodabarnes
Carin,
Broda Barnes is who I first read and admired for his practical approach of listening to his patients.
I went back to Armour at 150 -180% of my previous dose and have done far better than on the Levoxyl.
I will try the new generic next time. I am still looking to increase my dosage higher and see if it continues to improve. Thought being that the Manufacturer had to go back to the original formulation that existed before FDA, and the dosages Barnes mentioned as common, were 2,3 and 4 grains a day.
The second thing beyond Thyroid supplementation that has boosted our (my wife and I) Immune Systems
was to stop eating sugar.
Thanks for asking.
SAM
Re: Why You Should Fast and Do Early Morning Thyroid Testing
Hi Tracie, I know…I’ve had a thyroid problem for years as well, and there’s tons of things our doctors don’t tell us. Personally, I don’t think that with regards to the thyroid testing that it’s something that the physicians intend to mislead us about. I just think that with them having to see 30-40 patients a day it’s something that they either #1 haven’t read about or #2 don’t understand the subtleties involved with thyroid testing, and they think that unless you’re so sick with either hypo or hyper thyroid that you’re ready to drop, that “things are fine.”
I know most patients however, feel otherwise, and we’re all interested in not just feeling “ok” but feeling “good” or feeling our best. Here’s the article that was posted on this site which explains the reasoning behind it, and what exactly happens with your labs when you test fasting vs non fasting. I think there’s even a reference to a research article on the document that is within the article that you can download from Scrib.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/medical/do-you-know-when-to-get-your-thyroid-lab-testing-done
Isn’t that fascinating info though? I know I was blown away by knowing that it does really make a difference in our labs in terms of what time of the day we do them.
But what do you all think about that and how many of us haven’t been told that information?
I read on here somwhere that you are suppose to fast and not take you thyroid medication the morning you go for your test. Is this true? I have never been told this by a doctor and I have had hypothyroidism for 11yrs now.
Thanks,
Hi, Carin
I would like the names of those books you mentioned.
I appreciate your help.
Thank you,
Tracie
Re: Thyroid Resistance Article Dr. John Lowe
Hi Sam, Oh thank you so much for posting this article. Yes, I have read lots of Dr. Lowe’s material along with other pioneers in the field and think that this is defnitely of use to have everyone be aware about.
I wish some of the cardiologists would read and understand the thyroid because there are so many cardiologists who simply write a prescription for statin drugs to lower cholesterol instead of checking the thyroid properly.
And then giving patients the knowledge that labs aren’t everything..that you must correlate symptoms along with the lab results is also so important.
How are things going for you? Have you read any of Dr. Broda Barnes’ work on the thyroid?
Please see if you think this info has value.
Sam
Dr. John Lowe is a skilled clinician, recognized as one of the leading experts on treating thyroid disease with natural medicine. In this interview, he discusses hypothyroidism and the lesser known thyroid hormone resistance, and how thyroid disease is connected to fibromyalgia.
Sources:
Video Transcript
Dr. Mercola’s Comments:
Thyroid disease, or inadequate thyroid hormone regulation, is extremely common. According to estimates, anywhere from 10 to 40 percent of Americans have suboptimal thyroid function.
The Difference between Hypothyroidism and Thyroid Hormone Resistance
Hypothyroidism occurs when you produce insufficient amounts of thyroid hormone or when you have thyroid hormone resistance. As a result, your body cannot maintain normal metabolism, and your ability to convert tyrosine to dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine is impaired. This can cause a ripple effect of symptoms, including cognitive dysfunction.
A common give-away that you may be hypothyroid is feeling cold most of the time. This is because your body cannot generate enough ATP molecules to keep the core temperature of your body high enough.
Thyroid hormone resistance began being investigated in the 1950s, yet many endocrinologists still have never heard of it, or believe it’s a rare condition.
“The difference between hypothyroidism where there is a deficiency of thyroid hormone, and thyroid hormone resistance, is that the same amount of thyroid hormone—within the laboratories’ reference range—that would maintain normal metabolism in cells don’t do so adequately.
Those people [with thyroid hormone resistance] need a much higher dosage of hormones—a dosage that would cause most endocrinologists to scream, “You’re going to die of heart attack if you don’t get off that,” Dr. Lowe explains.
Why Lab Testing is NOT the Most Useful Tool for Diagnosing Thyroid Disease
Unfortunately, many if not most conventional doctors do nothing but look at lab test data when diagnosing thyroid disease, and typically ignore signs and symptoms revealed by the patient, such as dry skin or hair loss. Dr. Lowe and I often refer to these as extremist medical technocrats.
However, Dr. Lowe says he’s noticed a revival of sorts of the practice to listen to the patient; getting a list of the symptoms; looking at the patient and touching them.
This can be particularly valuable in the case of diseases like thyroid disease, which is littered with clinical symptoms.
The exclusive reliance on lab tests is actually NOT advisable in this case. In fact, Dr. Lowe discusses why these tests may at times be completely useless for diagnosis. For example, based on three decades worth of work in this area, and two rigorous studies, Dr. Lowe has concluded that the traditional testing used does not correlate with the far more powerful assessment of thyroid hormone in your body, which is your basal metabolic rate.
For more information about that, please listen to the interview, or read through the transcript.
A Forgotten Sign of Thyroid Disease
Dr. Lowe’s interest in the thyroid was ignited about 25 years ago. At the time he used myofascial trigger point therapy to treat pain, taught by Dr. Travell who used it on John Kennedy. Most patients responded favorable to this treatment, but some did not get the typical relief and he started wondering why.
“I went to Travell and Simon’s textbooks and found a huge section on perpetuating factors,” Dr. Lowe says.
“What can make a patient resistant to usually effective myofascial therapy? Among those were nutritional deficiencies. If patients don’t take enough B complex vitamins, various ones can cause neuromuscular hyper-excitability that has to be dealt with. I would give injections of B complex vitamins and would immediately get them on megadoses…
Rather than three treatments it might take eight or 10, but I was able to release them as ‘recovered’. But there were some patients for whom none of those usual tactics worked. They kept coming back. The reprieve from pain might be only six hours.”
He finally discovered information that linked myofascial pain and trigger points to hypometabolism, especially due to inadequate thyroid hormone regulation.
The standard tests used today to diagnose inadequate thyroid hormone regulation due to hypothyroidism are the free T3, free T4 and TSH. There’s also a test called TRH (thyroid releasing hormone) stimulation test. Using these tests, Dr. Lowe was able to determine that many of those patients could be diagnosed with central hypothyroidism.
“They didn’t have a thyroid gland problem per se where the thyroid gland wasn’t producing a thyroid hormone, but they had either a problem with the hypothalamus or with the pituitary,” he explains.
Some of the clinical symptoms presented by these patients were primarily pain, such as headaches and cervical- or back pain. One such patient became pain-free once she started taking thyroid hormone. That’s what got Dr. Lowe started on the path of treating thyroid disease.
Signs and Symptoms of Thyroid Disease
So, if the conventional lab tests are unreliable, what are the signs and symptoms to look for? As stated earlier, there are some 60 different symptoms (including many that correspond to symptoms of fibromyalgia) that are indicative of thyroid disease—although, remarkably, you won’t find these in the newer endocrinology books.
Dr. Lowe’s web site, http://www.DrLowe.com, contains a full list of all the signs and symptoms. Here are a few of the most common:
* Fatigue—If you don’t have enough dopamine or have too few dopamine receptors due to inadequate thyroid hormone regulation, you end up with extreme fatigue, which is also a common complaint in fibromyalgia patients
* Hair loss
* Weight gain–Thyroid hormone controls gene transcription for lipolytic enzymes, which lower cholesterol and break down triglycerides and fatty tissues. If you have enough of these enzymes, they will reduce fat tissues in your body even if you do not diet and exercise
* Dry skin, hair, eyes and other mucous membranes
* Excess muscle tension and trigger points—For muscles to completely relax, filaments must lengthen and separate, which requires energy (ATP molecules). Low thyroid hormone reduces ATP
* Delayed deep tendon reflexes (slow relaxation phase of the Achilles reflex)—Thyroid hormone controls gene transcription for calcium ATPase. When you hit the Achilles tendon and your foot goes down rapidly and then raises back slowly, it’s a sign of hypothyroidism or thyroid hormone resistance. This is due to lack of ATP molecules to provide the energy for the contractual filaments to separate and relax, hence you get a visibly slow relaxation phase of the Achilles reflex.
Here again is a classic thyroid indication that does not correlate with high TSH values. Unfortunately, this test (which used to be an established gold standard in thyroid testing) is no longer used because endocrinologists assume high TSH values must be present for hypothyroidism, which is not the case—but lab testing, like drugs, is big business, brining in billions of dollars
Thyroid Disease and Fibromyalgia, and the Treatments that Work for Both
Interestingly, inadequate thyroid hormone regulation may be one of the primary underlying factors in many patients with fibromyalgia.
Dr. Lowe explains:
“I had prior training as a research psychologist and was able to pull forth that training and enlist physicians on the research team. It was a loose net research team until it eventually became a non-profit organization called the Fibromyalgia Research Foundation.
Seven or eight years ago, I gave a presentation at the Fibromyalgia Coalition International based in Kansas City… I got there late and heard none of the other presentations.
When I gave my presentation, people began saying, “Dr. Lowe, you’ve used the word “integrative metabolic therapies” for getting patients free from chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. It just so happens, every single one of the — at that point, considered alternative doctors — have said exactly the same things.”
Through their personal, clinical experiences they had come to the same conclusions we had. If they used metabolic integrative therapies, nutritional deficiencies, anti-inflammatory diet, exercise, getting off medications that impede metabolism, and possibly treating cortisol deficiency, possibly balancing sex hormones, and treating the patients with effective thyroid hormone therapy… They got the patients well.
I said the same thing they had said, but my experience was based on rigorous scientific testing. Their experience was based on intuition and the wisdom that comes from listening to patients and working with them.”
This is yet another potent testimony to the truthfulness of the theory that health is based on a few fundamental principles, and although you will typically address specific aspects of a disease, the bulk of the therapy is the same for ALL diseases:
* Eating a nutritious diet (a low-sugar, low-grain, mainly raw organic diet is optimally nutritious and anti-inflammatory)
* Exercising
* Normalizing hormones
* Avoiding medications (virtually all medications create further imbalances, hence the side effects and deterioration of health)
Creating health really isn’t rocket science. It’s just “returning to basics,” and although it may not be easy, it’s rather simple.
Logic and Deductive Reasoning in Medicine—A Novel Idea
Dr. Lowe’s research team came to the conclusion that the thyroid was involved with fibromyalgia through the use of a method called “deductively formulated theory,” which he calls the “ultimate logic of problem solving.” Unfortunately, this method is virtually never used in medicine, and it’s a rare scientist who truly understands it.
Dr. Lowe explains it as follows:
“You take competitive theories or hypotheses about what causes something, then use the methods of mathematical physicists to show which hypothesis tops them all out.
Well, there simply is no competitor to inadequate thyroid hormone regulation that accounts for about 43 of the 46 subjectively verified findings in fibromyalgia — reduced brain blood flow, inhibitory alpha-2 adrenergic receptors, platelets that cause constriction of arterials and cold fingers… The list goes on.
If anybody looks at the method of deductively formulated theory and compare the inane serotonin deficiency hypothesis, which has been thoroughly refuted, there are no competitive theories.
… Hippocrates wrote about people with these symptoms and said, if these people will get a reasonable amount of physical activity, stop eating the trash the aristocrats eat and start eating vegetables and fruits, they’ll recover. Nothing has really changed there.
What we learned about fibromyalgia patients is that one set of symptoms: chronic aching and pain that lasts for three months or longer, and abnormal tenderness with associated symptoms (there are 12 of them), are all classic hypothyroid symptoms. It’s just another of what we call a clinical phenotype…
Most [fibromyalgia] patients are either hypothyroid or thyroid hormone resistant.”
Thyroid Hormone—The Missing Ingredient in Fibromyalgia Treatment
Dr. Lowe’s extensive experience with treating patients with both thyroid disease and fibromyalgia has led him to come to some startling conclusions. One, that thyroid dysfunction is a component of fibromyalgia, and second, that the conventional thyroid test is typically useless in making a diagnosis.
Instead, he recommends simply treating fibromyalgia with thyroid hormone until the symptoms improve.
“We give patients monitoring forms. One of those forms is the 20 most common symptoms of thyroid hormone over-stimulation,” he explains.
… [P]atients record their basal body temperature and their basal pulse rate. The pulse rate in most of these patients is too low for their levels of cardiovascular conditioning. It’s under-regulation of the thyroid. Some of them are bradycardic (less than 50-60 beats per minute).
If weight is an issue, they measure their weight after getting out of bed before consuming any liquid or solid, along with temperature and pulse rate. We have a lot of symptom severity scales where they estimate the intensity of their symptoms. They fill out this form at least three times a week.
Then, it’s easy for us to chart the data on line graphs. We can see, as the dosage increases, are the data points moving in the right direction? Is the temperature rising properly? Is the pulse rate coming up so that it’s more appropriate to that person’s level of cardiovascular conditioning?”
A one-line summary of Dr. Lowe’s research would be that thyroid hormone is the missing ingredient in the treatment of fibromyalgia that is nearly universally overlooked.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/02/26/dr-john-lowe-on-thyroid-disease-part-1.aspx
RE: Not Feeling Better After Med Change and Thyroid Testing
Those are good clues Tracie, and so it’s important to ask for your thyroid antibodies to be tested if they have never been tested as well as the other tests, because if your ferritin for example is too low, then you can have trouble utilizing the thyroid meds no matter how much you take. Your symptoms where you said sometimes you feel almost jittery could mean that your Reverse T3 is too high, which you can find out with testing, which is another reason for thyroid hormone not being able to enter the cells.
Most docs will go ahead and test those things if asked (and if he doesn’t or won’t initially there are some books I can recommend where you can bring those into him and/or copy some info off, but if he will just go ahead and run those tests) all of them I mentioned are relevant to the thyroid and ones since you are not making good progress that should be tested.
Worst case scenario you may need another doctor but see if this one is willing to test you properly so that you can get this sorted out.
My pulse has been a little faster than nomal and blood pressure a little higher also. I think all my doctor has ever tested is my t3, t4 and tsh.
Re: Still not feeling better after 4 weeks on New Thyroid Med
Tracie, No, I certainly would not wait another 2 months not feeling well to find out you need to make a change. It’s not normal to not feel well, and there’s no need to waste months (or years) they add up when you are told to wait that long before re-checking.
That’s kind of their standard “canned response”. Come back in 3 months and recheck. Actually most are now saying recheck in 4-6 weeks, but 4 weeks for a recheck is certainly fine to do and well warranted.
So here’s how I would approach it…feel free to modify to your liking…
I would call the doctor’s office and tell them that you’re still “falling asleep in the afternoon” and cold, hair falling out, constipation is another symptom of being hypo (not saying you have all of them, I would just mention the symptoms you have) and then tell the nurse (ask to speak to a nurse) and tell that nurse that it is affecting your ability to function, and you want a blood test and you have a list of things that you’d like to have tested that you can fax to his office.
If they are not open to that –then let me know. But absolutely no reason for you to “wait” and “hope” things will change because if they haven’t already then something is up and your job is to find out so that you can start to feel better.
And you are very welcome. I do remember how this feels…..
My doctor who is a family practioner told me to come back in 3 month and that was a month ago, thats how long he has always tells me to wait. Should I not be waiting so long in between test when the dosages are changed?
P.S. I really appreciate your help
Thanks,
Tracie
Re: Still not feeling better after 4 weeks on New Thyroid Med
Tracie, I wouldn’t wait any longer if it were me. Do you feel comfortable either calling your endo or your family physician and asking for them to test the following things?
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
If you have not had antibodies tested I would also ask for your thyroid antibodies to be tested
The are: TPO Antibodies (Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies)
and
TG (Thyroglobulin Antibodies)
Also a B12 test and a Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy Test and
Iron, with TIBC and FERRITIN
are all very important things to have tested when evaluating thyroid function.
You can also take your temperature (under your arm) first thing every morning before you get out of bed. And then chart that number in a journal. That can also help with determining if you are still hypothyroid in addition to your other symptoms. How’s your blood pressure if you know that and if you don’t have a monitor at home can you check like at a pharmacy or somewhere so that you can track how your blood pressure is doing and if your pulse is staying the same or not? I tend to write all these things down when I am doing dose changes.
So it could still be that you’re not on enough medication, or that there’s an issue with one of the things I’ve listed above. I know it’s so darn frustrating when you don’t feel well trying to get all this sorted out.
But believe me it’s worth it once you do. It’s like you feel as if you get your life back!
It has been a little over 4 weeks. I do have less brain fog but I haven’t notice any boost in energy and I also have what I guess you would call the jitters at times. I still feel very fatigued like I need a nap even after 7 or more hours of sleep.
RE: How Long Does it take Someone To Feel Better when Switching Thyroid Medication
Hi Tracie, sometimes it can be fairly quick. Like a day or so when you start feeling like some things are better. Although they say it can take 4-6 weeks for the full effect of thyroid meds in your system, I tend to disagree with this when changing meds. I think if you are not feeling better after a week at most then either the new med is not going to work for you, or you need an increased dose of the medication, or there are other issues like iron/ferritin issues, B12, Vitamin D or other things involved. Sometimes it is a combination of things that happen.
How many days has it been for you and do you notice any changes at all?
I meant to say how long does it take to feel better and get more energy after switching from levothyroxine to Nature-throid? Does anyone know?
Thanks
How long does it take to start getting energy and feeling better after switching from levothyroxine?
Re: Cramping Muscles, and Low Thyroid
Magnesium is so important in the body. It helps with stabilizing blood pressure, is important in energy and metabolism, helps the muscles to relax, and is involved with the nervous system. Magnesium can help you avoid insomnia and help you relax at night. About 80% of Americans are said to be deficient in Magnesium and if you have thyroid issues, then this number is probably higher.
Re: Leg Cramps and Thyroid
Callie, I’m not sure if it’s related to the thyroid, but my legs and toes were cramping so badly last year. My naturopath has me taking magnesium powder and potassium and I also take a calcium tablet every day. This has stopped the cramps and I’ve read somewhere about most people being very deficient in magnesium which I guess can cause some of these cramps.
Question about Leg Cramps and Thyroid
Does anyone know if leg cramping, especially at night is related to having a low thyroid? I’ve been very painful cramps–especially at night when sleeping and it’s starting to cause me to lose sleep.
Re: Thyroid Testing: What Should You Get Retested?
Retesting basic thyroid function should always at a minimum include:
Basic Thyroid Retesting
TSH
Free T3 and Free T4 (These would be the minimum’s let’s say if someone did not have insurance or can’t get the other testing)
If someone is still having any hypo symptoms then adding on a Reverse T3 to the ones above can be useful so in that case
Basic Thyroid Testing (if still having hyposymptoms)
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
(Thyroid Testing: New and or if physician has never ordered Thyroid Antibodies to be Tested)
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
TPO (Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies)
TG (Thyroglobulin Antibodies)
And I like to also have the physician do a Reverse T3 (optional, but nice to know)
Now, those are the thyroid tests: however, things that go along with thyroid function and should be tested if you don’t have a baseline would include:
Iron Panel, Full to include Serum Iron, TIBC, and FERRITIN
Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy
Vitamin B12, Serum is ok if you are not supplementing B12 with a vitamin: if you are supplementing this number can be falsely elevated so a urinary MMA test would be the best one
I know that’s a lot of info so if you need any further clarification or help, please ask.
Here’s an article that I submitted to this website that got published, that may also help you with information on why time of day matters with regards to thyroid testing and some other
thyroid testing tips
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/medical/do-you-know-when-to-get-your-thyroid-lab-testing-done
Thanks Cindy, I decided to cancel that appointment for now and to wait and see how it goes. I’ll make sure to get my D level tested next time I see my doctor. Thanks!
I’m going next month for a retest on my hypothyroidism what all should they be testing?
Thanks, Tracie
Re: Can Vitamins Make A difference
Hi Sandy, I think that yes, the Vitamin B, D3, and taking iron (but only if ferritin is low) all collectively makes a huge difference. So you may not need the specialist if you are feeling better and don’t have any other pressing issues to discuss.
In terms of bad effects, the only thing to be careful of is that Vitamin D has to be monitored—you can’t just take it and not get a follow up lab test. Same thing with iron even though you didn’t mention that one. The B vitamins are water soluble so no real need to get tested once you are supplementing.
I’m always so pleased to hear that someone is improving, so I thank you very much for sharing that with the thyroid group here:-)
Hi Everyone,
I posted a couple weeks ago and received some great information. Thanks all of you for your contributions. I started taking Vitamin B complex and D3, got off my trial of Armor (I felt worse on it), and returned to Levo. I really think the vitamins are making a big difference. I’ve dropped a little weight without effort and have lots more energy and my mental functioning is way better. It’s amazing. So far, so good. I have my fingers crossed that it is not a fluke:) I have an appointment with a specialist next week and am considering canceling it. It will be a very expensive appointment to keep. Has anyone had any bad effects from self-medicating with high doses of vitamins?
Thanks!!!
RE: Changing Thyroid Medication
So glad to know that someone is having good outcomes on the Naturethroid. I’m going to try it next week. Let’s hope it will do the same for me.
Re: Thyroid medications Update
Hi thyroid group, well last week I went through all the pages I could, and then printed off some helpful material and I am amazed at how much info you all share here. This is a wonderful wonderful resource. So yesterday I had my doctor’s appointment for a follow up and I guess my labs are looking much better. I will have a copy of them next week because I forgot to ask for them. Really stupid I know–but anyway, My T3 was up, and TSH was low but my doctor doesn’t give me grief about that. And I had made the switch from the new Armour thyroid to Naturethroid. Would love to hear from anyone else whose switched. Anyone else having good results? Or if you haven’t switched anyone doing anything differently that is making your Armour work better?
Re: On a Budget and Need Labs – Elke
Elke, It is hard to get proper thyroid treatment with or without insurance! Definitely a shortage of good doctors who understand thyroid levels. Bethanie listed some great labs and if you have insurance at some point, those would all be good to do.
In a pinch, here are the minimums for thyroid labs (and these are not expensive)
TSH
FREE T3
Free T4
(Since you’ve had your antibodies tested–although I too have to admit that how that one was reported was a bit ‘different’ — these 3 re the ones that you can get tested next time at the clinic.
And if you can find one doctor to just write your prescription for Thyroid (then you could go to Walgreens and get the generic thryoid which is natural dessicated thyroid, and that would probably do much, much better than Synthroid.)
I don’t know if you had read where we should not take the thyroid med on the morning of our blood draw either but that would be something to know before you get repeat blood work. I always take mine along to the lab and then take it right after they draw my blood.
But if you could find a doctor anywhere in your town or close to it, that would just write your prescription for Thyroid, or NatureThroid instead of Synthroid, that could at least help you. My neighbor had to resort to getting her Dentist to write her a prescription for B12 (she was low/normal) but the darn doctors wouldn’t do anything about it. She took her results to her holistic Dentist and he wrote the prescription for her right away. Apparently she was so low in B12 that having surgery could be very dangerous…..
Do hang in there—somehow you can always find a way through this maze.
Re: Has Anyone Had Good Luck with Changing Thyroid Meds to Naturethroid?
Hello Olivia,
My experience with Naturethroid so far has been a good one. The only thing I don’t like is that it doesn’t dissolve very well, so taking it sublingually kind of leaves a sticky mess for a while until it dissolves. But other than that I think it is making me feel so much better. Of course any improvement would’ve been welcomed after what I went through with the new Armour! But it is good. I still think about maybe even trying the Canadian thyroid–just so I can compare and see which one could be best. But for now, sticking with the Naturethroid.
Hi everyone. I was wondering if anyone who had posted who was going to try Naturethroid after not doing well on Armour had any luck with using the Naturethroid? I know there were many of you who also seemed like the Armour (the new one of course) wasn’t working–I’m in the exact same boat. I think I can get an appointment next week with a better doctor and so didn’t know if I should try the one from Canada or Naturethroid if I have the option of switching thyroid medicines.
Re: Thyroglobulin
Hi Elke, I’m so sorry, I think I see where both I and Bethany were confused. Usually labs like Thyroglobulin are reported with a less than number, for example, let’s say if the lab’s range was 20, then you’d be less than 20 to be within normal range. So I think that was the issue. Then there’s the other whole thing about some things actually not being the best “in range” even if the lab that you use says normal. That happens for example with TSH levels–some labs will report numbers up to 6 or so as being “normal” whereas others have a cutoff of a different number and/or even list right on the labs that anything over 2.50 should be considered as possible hypothyroidism. Bless that lab I say—-but doctors don’t seem to know that labs vary with their reference ranges. So they are ‘happy’ if you walk in and have ‘normal’ numbers according to the one lab they use. Whew…it gets confusing sometimes. So for the TSH you want lower numbers, the Free t3 and Free T4 you want higher numbers in general
With the antibodies, you either have them or you don’t. But the labs do list the reference ranges. It still doesn’t make sense that the lab ** not your fault, you did everything just fine but it doesn’t sense that if your result was greater than 20 and the cutoff for the antibodies is 20 that yours would be normal.
You always want lower antibody numbers. So for example, if the lab said that the
Thyroglobulin should be ABOVE a certain number to be normal, that would not be correct —at least I’ve never seen one ever that’s written like that. If it says you are at 20 and the range should be below 20 then that would be ok I guess. Just wonder if the lab misprinted the interpretation on your sheet because as far as I know it would not be possible to have a scale that is greater than 20 and then have yours come back as being above 20 and still be normal.
Not to keep harping on that but I wonder if the lab meant to write <40 as a reference range and because yours is at 20 then it's within normal range.
But labs should always be written < (Less Than) for antibodies not greater than. That's what's so wierd about how yours are listed.
I just looked up mine from before I started thyroid treatment and here's how mine were written
Thyroglobulin AB 163 IU/ML < 40 ( so see mine was positive because it was higher than 40). I will call a few friends tomorrow and ask them to look theirs up too so that I can make sure I'm not imagining things. With a 20 yours shouldn't be too bad anyway, but it is very very strange at how they worded and reported it.
Also back to how you're feeling. So sorry that it's been so frustrating finding a doctor who will listen. One of my friends who lost her insurance didn't think she could get help either. But another friend told her about a clinic in her area that had been in business for years and years and specialized in helping those who were uninsured or underinsured. So she went in with her list of thyroid tests and they did them all for a very very affordable amount. Then she didn't think she could find a regular doctor who was affordable to write her prescription—but she did find that too. It's so hard to think that we should have to struggle though, just to get adequate treatment.
Lynn:
Thank you. The test and labs I posted ARE in normal range, please look above. Bethanie misread the lab I posted on the Thyroglobin, the test say “in normal range” and shows greater than 20 which on the scale on the test is “greater range of 20″. I have checked it 4 times now, I posted it correctly and it is correct.
I am just frustrated right now and there are many people effected by the economy, me being one whom I NEVER thought I would be in a position of deciding over purchasing food or going to the doctor. As a single woman who is very strong, I will get through this but like I said, a simple resolution is only an arms length away and I can’t remedy it because of a stubborn doctor and I can’t afford to go to the proper doctor. Very sad.
Thanks for all you advice.
Elke
Re: Thyroglobulin Numbers
Hi Elke, I know you were discussing this with Bethanie but on the Thyroglobulin you don’t want to be “in range”. If you have Thyroglobulin this is not a good thing, this can mean as Bethanie said that you have Hashimotos. So unlike the other numbers, the antibodies are a bit different. I’m sure Bethanie can explain more or one of the other ladies who has more knowledge on this than I, but with the antibodies, I do know if you’re showing them on your labs, then this is not what you want…
Re: Synthroid
Hi everyone, I had taken Synthroid for about 3 years. Was losing my hair, felt like I was losing my mind, couldn’t remember anything, my job was suffering as well as my home life. Used to hike a lot and want to be outside. With Synthroid I had headaches and basically it was a real chore to get through the day. I’ve been on Naturethroid now for the past 8 weeks. Initially there was a pretty big improvement, then things leveled off. My doctor raised my dose and I’m happy to report that it is like night/day. Hair is growing, even my hairdresser commented. Things look “brighter” — I can concentrate, and I’m not so tired or cold all the time. And my cholesterol that had been going up has dropped by 60 points! I got a regular doctor to prescribe the NatureThroid so it wasn’t expensive or anything. I’m so happy I found this website and learned about what I can do for my health. Thank you all so much.
Bethany:
Thank you for the details, very informative!!!
I am in range with Thyroglobulin, as above greater 20 so, I am ok.
Without insurance it is impossible to afford blood tests and such. Next time I see this one clinic doctor, it may take alot of convincing to do all the blood tests and it be covered under this low income plan, let alone prescribe any type of natural product, he is very arrogant and I may just go to a different clinic, which will take a few months to be able to change.
I really liked my Endo and I am sad I can’t afford insurance any longer, it is too bad. I may just have to ride on this Synthroid until things get better for my economically.
It is a shame that such a simple process can be handicaped and in the mean time I feel like crap because of the system.
Oh well, thank you for the help and I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
I will keep in touch!
Elke’
Re: TSH and Labs – Elke
Hello Elke,
Ok, first of all if your initial Thyroglobulin Antibody was > 20 with a reference range of greater than 20 IU/ml being elevated, then that is something you need to be aware of.
I want to make sure we’re not losing anything in translation here with these being retyped, so please double check again on your labwork and if the Thyroglobulin was elevated than it is likely what you are dealing with is an auto-immune type thyroid issue called Hashimotos.
In Hashimotos there are antibodies that are elevated (The TPO or Thyroglobulin Antibodies) Both or one or the other can be elevated.
These elevated antibodies attack the thyroid gland and cause you to swing from either hypothyroid or hyperthyroid. Eventually the thyroid gland burns out and patients are left hypothyroid permanently.
It can be treated and unlike some doctors who tell you to “watch” it, there are many patients and some enlightened doctors who find that keeping that TSH suppressed, especially taking natural dessicated thyroid hormones and NOT the synthetics like Synthroid, can stop the progression of the antibodies or at least slow them considerably.
I have it too, as do many thyroid patients, so it is not anything to be frightened about it just requires that you are assertive in finding the right treatment for it so that it won’t progress as quickly and so that you can feel well in the process.
AND with Hashimotos patients, it is even more important to keep that TSH completely suppressed, as long as the Free T3 and Free T4 are in good ranges, and your vital signs are appropriate etc.
The other thing is that if thyroid is not treated appropriately (and or if someone has been left for years with untreated Hashimotos) then cholesterol is one of the things that can elevate or continue to elevate even with appropriate diet and exercise.
I hear and see labs every day from patients all over the country. It is not uncommon at all to see very large dips in cholesterol levels, especially the LDL level if the thyroid is appropriately treated.
Additionally, your doctors are not ordering the complete thyroid testing that you need.
In terms of monitoring your thyroid blood levels there are these tests that need done each time you get your thyroid levels checked
1. TSH
2. Free T3
3. Free T4
(And if you have never had a Reverse T3 – I would get that checked at least the next time)
4. So Add Reverse T3 to your list
You never need the Total T3-that is an outdated lab and one still on old lab slips, but it is not necessary to check
Once you have the above labs checked, the next thing I would personally look for is a doctor who will prescribe you the Natural Dessicated Thyroid Hormone
Most patients are doing better using NatureThroid, and not the new Armour Thyroid, so if you have to ask for something I would either ask for
a: NatureThroid or
b. Natural Dessicated Throid — If you go to Walgreens ask that it be filled with manufacturer Acella *** NOT ARMOUR Thyroid
I personally take Naturethroid and there are many many thyroid patients who do great with it. Some are saying that the new Natural Dessicated Thryoid (Walgreens carries it but you have to ask for them to look it up in their system as Generic Thyroid (but then specify natural dessicated thyroid by Acella) is ok because the Acella brand does not have cellulose in it (and not having cellulose is a good thing)
But Naturethroid has been on the market for YEARS and it is the one I personally take.
The prescriptions need to be written exactly like that (either a or b and if you have a good doctor they may be willing to write the prescription for both so that if one doesn’t work well for you, you could switch to the other if needed without having to pay for another doctor’s visit)
So that is the first thing…trying a natural dessicated thyroid hormone would be the first thing I would discuss with my doctor (and you may need to get a new one because it is difficult to find docs with the correct knowledge) There are books I can recommend written by MD’s that you can get or get the librarian to get for you and take those in to your appointments, but it requires that a doctor not be too egotistical to actually be open to learning something new.
Most endos are not good thyroid doctors..they are normally so STUCK on prescribing the synthetics like Synthroid that it keeps us sick for years! Synthroid only has T4 in it. (which needs to be converted to T3)
The natural dessicated thyroid hormone medications that I listed for you have BOTH T3 and T4 in them which is what your body would produce it if were working correctly.
So first thing:
a. Find a physician who will let you try natural dessicated thyroid
b. then you need an appropriate dose of the medication that will keep your Free T3 (once it is tested) at the TOP of the range, and the Free T4 midrange or higher and the TSH as low as possible
And you would need to learn how to monitor yourself for knowing whether you are on too much or too little thyroid. If needed I can write more about this.
There are many things you can also do in addition to getting your thyroid balanced that can also help with cholesterol.
What supplements are you taking? Has any of your doctors discussed a high quality fish oil with you?
The other things why I also asked about CBC, is that you also need to have tested in order to work with your thyroid:
Serum Iron, TIBC, and Ferritin (you need all 3)
Then the CBC at the same time which would need to have the RBC, and other things looked at) so they are all important
the CMP -which you have had but someone needs to look at sodium, potassium etc,
Serum B12 can be looked at via bloodwork but the urinary MMA is more accurate, but that’s hard to get these docs to do. What I normally do is have them start out with the serum B12 and see where that is, then move forward with the urinary mma if needed
I would also get them to check your
Serum Homocysteine level
And finally hormones:
your testosterone level was low so I would have them also look at other hormones like
Estrogen
Progesterone
FSH
LH
and see where you are with the premenopausal thing
If you need help with how many of us find doctors that are better informed about these things let me know and I’ll do another post. Also if you want me to check our list to see if any other patients have reported good results with a doc in your area, just let me know your city and I’ll look for you.
What I Just Learned About Breast Cancer Floored Me, Hi Everyone, I know this isn’t about thyroid trouble, but this was so important I just had to share.
Tonight I learned some things about breast cancer that I think we should all know about. Feel free to pass this onto others…
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-e-living/how-dense-are-your-breasts
Elke, thanks for posting your labs. I will go over them for you tomorrow and appreciate your taking the time to post the ranges. Also, normally fixing the thyroid issues can help the cholesterol issues also. But I’ll share more about that tomorrow. Everyone have a good night.
Bethanie:
Reg: Lab Results from Endo Before any Meds Perscribed:
TSH 3.52 Ranges: 0.50-6.00 UIU/ML
Free T4 0.91 0.75-1.54 NG/DL
Total 3T 98 70-170 NG/DL
Thyroglobulin Anti. greater 20 range: greater 20 IU/ml
Thyroid Perox. 12 range: greater 35 IU/ml
Testoserone Free etc. 8 range: 2-45
Regular Doctor Labs- currenetly on Synthroid 0.25 mcg::
TSH 3rd Generation 1.64 mIU/L Range: 0.40-4.50
Metobolic 82 Range: 65-99 mg/dl
my LDL cholesterol is a bit high since I was in my 20′s it is 168 apparently ahould be lower than 130
The cbc is all blood counts etc, too much to type out.
I do trust in the Endo over this basic doctor. The basic doctor also has me taking generic Zocor-Simvasatin, for the cholesterol, because I am soon premenopausal and said that there is a chance of heart attack when I hit menopause. I read the warnings of the generic Zocor- Simvastatin, and it says it can “interupt with hormones”. So, even with very healthy eating and exercise through my life, I still have this high cholestrol and want to also find another healthy way to lower it, NOT taking this pill that would interact with the hormones from the thyroid meds. I have taken only two so far, but think I will discontinue it because of all the hard work to balance this thyroid thing, I don’t want to throw a wrench in the whole deal!
Thank you!
Elke’
Re: Looking at Thyroid Lab Results – Elke
Hi Elke, you are too kind…it’s not problem really. I had TONS of help from other thyroid patients when I was first diagnosed, then later when I couldn’t figure out why synthetic thyroid meds weren’t working for me. So it’s kind of like–once you get your life back from thyroid disease it’s almost like you have to share info and help others along the way. Smile— otherwise we’d all be “stuck”.
Please do post your ranges for the labs, and if you don’t mind listing the Metabolic, Lipid, and CBC info that’s also useful info to know sometimes, so if there’s anything there that would be of significance I’m happy to give you just my thoughts on it.
And you are correct, the TSH is NOT the only test that he would have needed to do in order to evaluate your thyroid. In fact, it is the LEAST important one. I’ll comment more when I get your reference ranges, so I’ll look for them. Hope your day is going well.
Bethanie:
You ARE an Angel here on earth, truly! Your knowledge and advice is highly appreciated!
As far as labs, I am going to write out what I see, I am confused on what I see and how to read it all, the different measurements etc. , I may be missing something, so please ask what you need and I will respond.
Labs from May 2010 NOT on any prescriptions:
TSH 3.52
Free T4 0.91
Total T3 98
Thyroglobulin greater 20
Thyroid Peroxidase 12
Test. Free and total LC/MS/MS 8
If you need the reference ranges I have them listed on the results.
Labs from Jan. 21, 2011 currently on Synthroid ( this is doc who wants me off it):
TSH 3rd Generation 1.64 mIU/L
Other blood work was done, Lipid panel, Metobolic, and CBC, but I don’t think there were any more thyroid related tests.
How can this new doctor tell anything with one test? The first doc did a more detailed testing, of course he is the Endo.
Thanks for your interest and I look forward to your response.
Elke’
Re: Dosing of Thyroid Medication
I’m glad I found this discussion. I’m on Naturethroid and Cytomel and had to raise my NT dose up about 6 weeks ago because I was exhausted (just crashed) and having a return of my old hypo symtoms. When my doctor checked my labwork I needed more thyroid medication, so he increased it. But I also found out I had very low ferritin and have been on iron supplements since then. I was having hair loss which has stopped and much more energy now. Is there anything else that you all think I should have checked to make sure I don’t have another “crash” like I did before?
Re: Increasing Dose of Thyroid Medication
I had to increase my dose of Naturethroid also this month. Went from taking 2.5 grains to 3.5 grains. I am also noticing very good results. So if you are taking thyroid medicine and you think that it is your medicine that is not working, please do check the dose you are on. My doctor said many of us will have to adjust their dose as time goes on.
Re: Dosing on the New Armour
Hi Sam, I don’t know what could be happening. But that is interesting because I have wondered if it simply required much higher doses for us to get the same result. But then on the other hand there are some of us who took way, way higher doses of the new Armour and whose labs simply went up to the moon! Like a TSH level of 20 or so- with the new Armour. So I do wonder with the reforumulation if it is effective at all no matter what one’s dosing is…
But I guess it would be worth trying to take a larger dose to see if that works–but that’s what we should all be doing anyway by monitoring our Free T3 and the Free T4.
Hey, just had an idea, so you are feeling better on the new Armour right? Have you had any lab work done since you’re feeling better? If not, I wonder if you could get your labs drawn in about 4-6 weeks from the time you started having good results on the new Armour. And then see if your Free T3 and Free T4 along with TSH are all in good ranges. Just to correlate your labs with how you’re feeling. That would be so interesting!!!!!
And I’m glad that you posted your results. It must feel very good to have some success and thank you for sharing it with other thyroid patients.
Dear All,
This is experiential & a developing theory, but I want to put it out there and see if anyone else is getting the same results.
I first learned of the Thyroid need through white papers written by Dr Broda Barnes. and recalled recently that the dosages he spoke of seemed excessively high compared to the dosages we had been sustained on using the old Armour. He spoke of 1, 2 and even 4 grains a day.
I began taking more of the new Armour with positive results. It made me wonder if Forest was grandfathered in with the original formula which Barnes used and perhaps they changed it at some point, making it more effective and requiring less ( the material we knew as Old Armour) but because the change came after the establishment of the FDA it became recognized that it would not be allowed without new costly retesting, so Forest went back to a previously grandfathered formula that experience documented took higher dosages.
Just a thought because I am having success with higher dosages of the new Armour.
Thoughts from others?
Sam
I have a doctor’s appointment tomorrrow but my doctor only usually tests my TSH for my thyroid labs. Could someone please help me and give me the list of things I need to ask him for? Also, is there anything else I need to do to prepare for having my bloodwork drawn? Should I be fasting or not?
Re: NatureThroid and Sublingual
Hi Tracie, I know it’s not the most pleasant taste. At first I felt the same way, but I think my body needs the “get up and go” it provides so much that now I don’t even mind it at all. Maybe we just get used to it — I don’t know. But I do know for me the NatureThroid just works so much better than the Synthroid I was prescribed way back when. Ugggh, talk about awful. I felt like I was walking around in my sleep all day. Looked pretty bad too. So I figure this is much better.
Now, I think that the people who are trying the new generic Thyroid (make sure it is the natural dessicated type if you want to try it) and make sure your doctor does write the prescription for “Natural Dessicated Thyroid” and that you ask for the manufacturer Acella (Walgreens) has it according to Bethanie who is another thyroid patient….. I think the ones who are using that say that it tastes more like the old Armour. Because it doesn’t have cellulose in it it could quite possibly dissolve easier and if people are saying it tastes like the old Armour, you may want to try it and see if that makes it better for you to tolerate.
And if you are doing the sublingual then it’s not such a big deal to wait one hour before eating. I think normally I average about 30 minutes before eating in the morning for the same reason that you mentioned. Swallowing the tablet would make a bigger difference but for us “sublingual” thyroid gals—it’s not as important because the medicine is not going through the stomach with food. I think they just say one hour even with sublingual if you happen to swallow some of it. So make your mornings work for you and if you can do the sublingual then adjust your eating time to compensate for that.
But for sure— I would never take my thyroid at night. I know there were some who posted that they do, but I don’t know if they work nights—some do, but if you work days, then you really want to be taking your thyroid in the morning. Alternatively there are some people who may take 1/2 of their dose in the morning and 1/2 of their dose about 5 hours later–this because of the duration of action of the T3. But I never found that this worked as well for me as did taking the whole thing in the morning. For some reason splitting my dose made it seem like I wasn’t getting enough energy even though I was in theory taking the same thing–only dividing it.
So there are lots of variables with the thyroid meds. And the key is finding a solution that is going to work the best for you. Hang in there:-)
Hi KellyJo, Yes that does help thank you, but even with honey it still tastes really bad. It’s also hard to wait an hour to eat in the morning when you have to get going. I also read somewhere that some people take theirs before bed, but I’ll take your advice and take mine in the morning. I’m very thankful for your help.
Thanks,
Tracie
Re: Questions about NatureThroid etc.
Elke, We’re glad to have you here also on the thyroid support group. And yes, it can be grueling. I remember feeling like I had run a marathon just trying to get everything in order. First it was hard to get diagnosed, then ever harder it seemed finding the right doctor to prescribe not only the proper medication but the right dose! Whew…..makes me tired just thinking about it. But the good thing is that once you find what works for you —it is like everything doesn’t seem like such a chore anymore.
Alright, so let’s talk about your situation. What are your lab ranges. I know your doc said your levels are normal, but you probably saw my other post about “normal” and there’s differences between normal and optimal, so you need copies of your labs. Also, once you are on thyroid medication, they need to test more than just the TSH. But please post your lab values that you have and someone will give you some feedback.
NatureThroid, is natural dessicated thyroid hormone, which is better in my opinion than anything synthetic because it does have the T3 and the T4 which is what your regular thyroid would produce if it were working correcting. Also the Synthroid, as mentioned earlier only is the inactive form of the thyroid hormone T4, and your body needs to work to convert it over the active form which is T3. Furthermore, most patients feel BETTER on a T3/T4 medication so. yes, that would be a good thing to try if you have a doctor who will write you a prescription for it.
Now, it is a natural dessicated thyroid hormone medication (NatureThroid) but it still requires a prescription –it is a prescription thyroid med.
Armour I would not personally use because of the formulation change. It used to be the best in my opinion, but no more. So many people are writing in saying they are having trouble with it–so I would avoid Armour.
But, there is a new generic natural thyroid medication available (Walgreens is the only place I know that has it, but others may follow or even have it now…but I know you can get it through Walgreens)
It’s so new that even the pharmacists are confused. You have to tell them to look it up in their system as
“Thyroid” and then tell them you are looking for the natural dessicated thyroid medication, generic, by manufacturer Acella.
This one does not have any cellulose in it which in theory should be a good thing.
*** If you want NatureThroid, your doctor must write the prescription for “NatureThroid” and the amount
*** If you want the generic natural dessicated thyroid the prescription can be written as either ” Thyroid” and then you have to make SURE it is the natural dessicated thyroid from manufacturer Acella, and Walgreens is the only place I know who carries and can get it for sure
OR you can also get that filled by having your doctor write the prescription for “Natural Dessicated Thyroid” and then ask for manufacturer Acella from Walgreens
You Asked:
Q: Is it better to wean myself off Synthroid or go right into the natural one?
A: No, please don’t wean yourself off the Synthroid, if you are taking thyroid medication and your doctor prescribes the natural thyroid you would simply begin taking the natural one on the day after you stopped taking Synthroid
Most of us who take NatureThroid have better results crushing the tablets and taking it sublingually. The patients I know who are taking the Acella Generic Thyroid are also doing sublingual instead of just swallowing it.
Any other questions please ask. Glad you’re here on the thyroid board!
RE: Thyroid
Hello all, I am so glad to have run across this post. I have been through the grueling blood tests with my endo until he said although my thyroid tests are in normal range, my symptoms are that of Hypothyroidism. He put me on Synthroid 25mcg about 10 months ago and I am doing well. I seem though to have more cystic acne than I have not had in a long time. I would though like to get off the Synthroid and go natural, but I have no insurance now, so it may be something I do on my own. I visited a local clinic and the doc wants to completely take me off Synthroid because he said my levels are “normal” , I said NO WAY!!! I finally have a libido, can sleep, don’t have night sweats, lost weight and have hair growing back where I was losing it -reseeding hair line, I am now energetic and my periods are regular. My gosh, I will do what I can to stay on it, but still want to go more holistic. I found I have access to Nature Throid, is this a good way to go? Or Armour which is out of stock right now…..is there a preference or is this something I will have to do and see how I feel. Also, is it best to ween myself off of Synthroid, or just go right into the new natural one? I understand your advice is that, advice, but I trust people who have been through all of this and it seems the doc’s have their own agenda. Thanks.
Re: Are Swollen and Achy Muscles a Symptom of Hypothyroid – For Walker
Hi Walker, Yes, swollen and achy muscles can definitely be a related to hypothyroidism, and low Vitamin D can just make it worse.
Regarding your labs. You really need to ask your physician’s office for a copy of your labwork, I never, ever rely on anyone’s word that my labs are ‘normal’. Because you know what?
Normal ranges vary from lab to lab. I didn’t know that before until I started volunteering and looking at labs ranges all over the country. So if you were in one state your doctor may tell you everything’s peachy, where if you happened to live in another state your doctor may treat you. What’s the difference—nothing except you happened to live in one area or another, and some doctor’s don’t even know this, all they go by is the numbers on the page.
The other thing with thyroid disorders is that it’s not just the numbers. It’s WHERE on the range you are. Are you bottom oft the barrel? Or are you at the top of the range? The only way to know is for YOU to keep your lab results, so YOU can begin seeing changes. There are lots of other reasons to get your own copies of your labs–but bottom line–you need your own copies!
So get copies of your labs and if you want feedback, post those exact numbers along with your lab’s ranges.
B12 is another one that is way, way off. Unless yours was at the TOP, and I mean top…then B12 could be an issue. Also, if they just ran a serum B12 and it was at the upper end of normal, this can be falsely elevated. There is a proper B12 test that can be done which is more accurate, but most docs are not doing it. If you get your B12 results from what was done and post them, we can give you more info on where you stand. but Normal range for B12 can be very dangerous. Some patients with low/normal B12 levels can have permanent neurological damage. In Japan their levels are 1.5 times what ours are…so here in the US we have too low limits in terms of the B12.
What exactly was your vitamin D, and what type and kind of Vitamin D are you taking? Also what dose?
If I knew what your exact labs were I could give you a better idea of your dose. But one grain is not a large dose, that would be considered a lower dose.
Re: Getting Frustrated with Thyroid Medications
Hi Linda,I know it’s frustrating to try to find a thyroid medication that works for you. Especially after Armour changed it has been a whirlwhind for some of us.
I don’t think Forest Labs is interested in bringing back the old Armour. Just my opinion it must have something to do about $$$. This seems to overshadow effectiveness almost all the time.
Which types of thyroid medications have you tried, what dose are you on, and what are your labs and how do you take NatureThroid?
RE: TSH Levels and Doctor Wants to Start Medication
Hi Susan, welcome to our thyroid support group and thanks for your question. None of us our physicians, so what we are sharing is general information that has worked for us and so none of what we share should be construed as medical advice.
Now, onto your message and info on your TSH. Thyroid testing and treatment can be a bit complex, but once you get the basics down it’s also simple too.What’s hard to describe sometimes is all the ins/outs of why things are done at what point and what lab results are really important depending upon what stage you are in of the thyroid diagnosis and/or treatment.
1. TSH – If the TSH is low or even within range but low normal and if someone is already on thyroid treatment, then most docs who are very knowledgeable about these things will not rely on the TSH for thyroid medication dosing (after you are already diagnosed)
However, and there’s a BIG however, IF your TSH is high as yours is…4.5. I would consider to be quite elevated, then it would warrant getting on some thyroid medication I would think as soon as possible. So I do agree with your doctor on that respect.
What you may want to question and where most doctor’s are highly uninformed or under-educated about, is the fact that using a T3 and a T4 medication is superior to what they’ve been accustomed to using or prescribing which is a synthetic medication which has ONLY T4 in it like Levothyroxine or Synthroid. MOST patients that we hear from over many years, have NOT had success using ONLY T4 medications. Your body would have to convert the inactive T4 to the active T3 which is the useable form of thyroid hormone that your body can use. When one has a thyroid issue, much of the time we are unable to get this conversion processed well within our bodies—thus the need for thyroid hormone treatment. So to say that everyone is a good T4 to T3 converter—just doesn’t make sense, and the comments and feedback from other patients back this up well.
Now, would it have been better if your doc had initially tested your thyroid completely? And I will list those tests for you….
Absolutely.
If my TSH was as high as yours, I would go ahead and follow the doctor’s advice to get started on a thyroid medication, and what works best for most patients is to take a Natural Dessicated Thyroid Medication.
There are several choices, but starting out to keep it simple, you can ask for either
A: Natural Dessicated Thyroid (written on your prescription) and go to Walgreens and ask that it be filled ONLY with the new generic medication that they have or can order for you. In Walgreens’ system they’ll need to look this up for you under the word “THYROID” and then ask them to find the THYROID by manufacturer Acella and then confirm that they are filling this with the natural dessicated Thyroid – manufacturer Acella one last time
MAKE sure THEY DO NOT fill your THYROID prescription with Armour Thyroid—this has not worked well fora few years for most patients
2. The other option is to ask for your doctor to write you a prescription for NatureThroid (it is also a natural dessicated thyroid hormone) and like #1 has both T3 and T4 in it. Most people are doing well on this, but some are saying they are having some issues because of the cellulose in it. Option #1 does not have cellulose, so you can choose which one you would want to start with. And if one doesn’t work great for you, you can always change.
If you had a progressive doctor he would write you a prescription for both #1 and #2 and you could try one and then have a backup prescription that you would fill only if one didn’t work. So that’s an option also.
In terms of the starting dose, I would ask for the prescription to be written as a 1 grain prescription (for both #1 and #2) If they write it in grains and not milligrams it’s easier because it’s a uniform dose for both.
Then you would ask your doctor for permission to just start with 1/2 of a tablet (which would be 1/2 grain) and see how you feel. Get a pill splitter and cut it in 1/2. This can save you 1/2 off the cost of the medication because the cost of 1/2 grain and 1 grain are the same. Plus most patients will have to raise their dose anyway, so it gives you a buffer if you have to raise your dose.
I will list the complete thyroid testing a bit later. Got backed up with the storm on answering some replies, but hope that will get you started. Please let me know if you have other questions and/keep us informed on your progress and if your doctor is open to doing those prescriptions for you.
In the meantime, I will also check the list to see if other patients have recommendations for good thyroid doctors in your area.
P.S. Almost forgot…so it would be fine to start on the thyroid medication now, based on your HIGH TSH levels, and then test in about 4-6 weeks and at that time do the full thyroid testing. Yes, it would have been better if he would’ve tested everything in advance, but since you are going to need medication anyway and you’re going to need another lab draw in 4-6 weeks, then it’s well warranted to get started.
Re: When To Take Thyroid Medication (Morning or Night) and How To Make It Dissolve Better
Tracie, Thyroid medication should always be taken in the morning. On an empty stomach ideally 1 hour before food or 2 hours after. It should not be taken with calcium, iron or other supplements. You don’t want to take it at night because it gives you energy–so unless you’re working at night—take it in the morning. Now, if you are taking it sublingually, you don’t have to be as careful about the 1 hour before food type thing, because the medication doesn’t have to be processed through your stomach.
I know it can stay “gritty” for a while if you are doing the sublingual route so I move the medicine around a bit with my tongue if I have to. I guess a small amount could be swallowed but by moving it I can see quicker progress in getting it to dissolve.
Does that help you at all?
Oops. I see that I made a typo in my previous posting a few minutes ago. That should have read 50 mcg. of Synthroid that my doctor suggested for a start dose–not 50 mg. Also, I want to add that the area where I live is Indianapolis in Indiana.
Hello.
Three weeks ago I went to my doctor for a check up because I was feeling unusually tired. He ordered a test of my TSH. That test result came back at 4.5. The doctor told me he was thinking to start me on 50 mg. of Synthroid. I asked him if I should have any other lab tests first and he told me that wasn’t necessary. Just from the reading I’d done on this and other websites, I am thinking that I should at least have my free T 4 level checked before starting thyroid hormone treatment. All in all, I don’t have much confidence in this doctor to manage my care for the hypothyroid problem. Can you please provide me with a list of doctors in the greater Indianapolis area with whom I might consult.
My issues with all the thyroid medications I have tried continue and I am EXTREMELY frustrated. Old/classic Armour Thyroid was the best. I have struggled to find an alternative that works and is available. Even the latest Naturthroid prescription made me feel horrible. I am living off a small supply of “old” Naturethroid, but that won’t last much longer. This is distressing and I am running out of options
I am beginning to question the irradiation of the desiccated thyroid.
Compounding is my next try . . .
Help! Does anyone know if there is a coordinated effort to put pressure on Forest Labs to bring back the old Armour Thyroid?
My experience is that I had been getting my thyroid checked for years–or so I thought. My physician had just checked the TSH which I now understand doesn’t catch many of the problems that can happen with people who have thyroid disorders. So almost 3 years ago I went to an MD who was also an Integrative Medicine Specialist– which is a big word for someone who thinks holistically about the body. The new Dr. put me on Armour thyroid because I had Hashimotos and I had felt better almost right away. But after the Armour changed I was feeling worse. I was switched to Naturethroid thyroid medicine and everything was good until this winter. I had to raise my thyroid medicine from 2.5 grains to 3 grains. I am now back to feeling good again, so anyone thinking that their medicine isn’t working maybe you could get your dose checked.
Hi KellyJo, and Lori,
Thanks for you comments on how you are taking Nature Throid. I tried taking it sublingualy with honey yesterday, but it seem like the honey dissolves but I could still feel the grit from the pill for a long time so, I ended up swallowing it. How long does it take for it to dissolve for ya’ll and also do ya’ll take yours in the morning or at night?
Thanks,
RE: Vitamin D for Sandy
You are most welcome Sandy. Please stay in touch and let any of us know if you have more questions or if you just want to check in. I’ve gotten help from so many thyroid patients who helped me when I first learned that I had a thyroid problem–so I try to pass on that help to someone else. If you know anyone who thinks they may have a thyroid problem or wants more information on what tests to ask the doctor to do so that they can find out. Or of course anyone whose already been diagnosed, feel free to pass on the address of our thyroid support group here so that others can get help and support too!
Re: How to take Nature Throid questions
Hi I was just swallowing the thyroid tablet because my doctor didn’t tell me I could take it any other way, but after I had heard that you can take the Naturethroid sublingually I decided to try it. I think it does work so much better taking it that way. So if anyone is wondering if the route that you take the thyroid medication makes any difference–I think it does!
Bethanie, thanks so much for all the good information on Vitamin D! I’ll take your advice. Thanks for sharing, I sure appreciate your help.
Re: How to take the Naturethroid
Hi Tracie,
I definitely take my Naturethroid sublingually. I went to Walgreens and got this little blue pill splitter/crusher that I had read about on here, and I crush my tablets each morning. Then drop the crumbs into my mouth and put a dab of honey on top of the crushed mixture. This for me helps it dissolve and I know alot of the other girls here do that too:-) (That’s how I learned about that tip!)
For some reason the sublingual seems to make the thyroid medicine work better for me. The other issue is that perhaps you’re still not on the right dose. I just got in tonight and have to feed my dog but I’ll go back over your earlier comments and see if you listed anything else that may be helpful for you to recheck or consider. Hope you had a good day and thank you for updating me on your dose etc.
Hi KellyJo and thanks for your reply,I’m on 120mg . I was on levothyroxine for 12 yrs and had never felt really good and I heard that it can cause your hair to fall out . Hair loss has been a big problem for me but the doctors never told me that synthroid or levothyroxine(generic) would or could do that. Then one day a lady on the Dr. Oz show was talking about her hair problems and he recommended Armour thyroid but I read alot of people where having trouble with the reformulated version, so I asked my primary care doctor if I could try nature throid after my last blood test because he was going to up my levothyroxine from 125mcg to 175mcg. He didn’t have a problem with it so he called it in for me. I have been taking it for 12 days now I felt pretty bad the first 4 or 5 days and have had a tingling in my hand and feet and my eyelid has been twitching a lot dont know if it has anything to do with the nature throid or not but the longer I take it it seems to be going away. I didn’t read about the reformulation of nature throid until after I got mine filled. I don’t have an endo and I’m not supposed to go back for another blood test for 3 months. How do you take your nature throid.
Thanks for your help,
Tracie
Re: Question about B12 and Vitamin D for anyone whose interested in my results…..
You know, I can’t say 100% for sure that it is the Vitamin B12 that is responsible for all of the changes I’ve experienced, but what I do know is that I had gained about 35 pounds prior to starting the B12, and I just couldn’t get myself to the gym or motivated to do something about that before…. I’m happy to report that all 35 pounds are gone. I go to the gym at least 5 days a week–and even better yet, I have the energy to do so. I also had an awful habit of smoking sometimes…I’ve been cigarette free for 4.5 months so far, and have no intention of going back. I’m pretty sure my depression is much better too. I still have days that are not perfect, but now they don’t get me so far down in the dumps when they happen. Taking the Vitamin D supplement daily and I think that this along with the changes I’ve made in terms of eating healthier and exercising,have really helped. I guess getting off the Levothyroxine and onto Naturethroid may have helped a lot also.
I’m so eternally grateful for the support and help of everyone here. Before this I felt like I could never convince anyone that something wasn’t quite right and so then I just quit saying anything. Now I know that I do deserve to feel better and it’s because of all of you that I have the strength to find the proper medical care. Please if you’re just starting the journey, have the strength to stay on it, and my hope is that all of you will also find the right balance of medications so that you feel good too.
Re: For anyone Taking Vitamin D – Sandy and others (SamK — you are welcome!)
Hi Sandy, Hope you are feeling better and that if anyone is snowed in these days that you are all staying warm and safe.
I missed the fact that you said you were taking a prescription Vitamin D. For the most part we should NOT be taking prescription VItamin D which is D2. According to the Vitamin D Council and countless other holistic type doctors, prescription Vitamin D (D2) should Not be given. Again, most doctors aren’t aware of the differences between over the counter Vitamin D (D3) or prescription (D2), and they simply open up their prescription pad and write yet another prescription if they notice that your vitamin D is low.
I can write more about this if anyone is interested, but in a nutshell.
Prescription Vitamin D is D2 – which is a synthetic form of VItamin D that definitely inferior to D3. Your body does not absorb it well—so taking it will not be as effective as taking D3 which is the type that you can get over the counter and is the natural form of Vitamin D that your body would normally produce
Just taking a vitamin isn’t automatically better–you have to make sure it’s in a form that your body can use.
Here’s some research which supports these findings:
“# “Vitamin D2 should not be regarded anymore as suitable for supplementation or fortification.” From ‘Vitamin D2 or vitamin D3?’ Mistretta, VI et al
“Vitamin D2, or ergocalciferol, should not be regarded as a nutrient suitable for supplementation or fortification.” From ‘The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin supplement’. Houghton LA, Vieth R.
# “D2 (ergocalciferol) has lower bioactivity, poorer stability, and shorter duration of action, resulting in approximately 33% lower potency compared with vitamin D3” From ‘The Value of Vitamin D3 over Vitamin D2 in Older Persons’ Barbara J. Zarowitz PharmD, FCCP, BCPS, CGP, FASCP
# “…Vitamin D2 is only about 20-40% as effective as cholecalciferol …” Michael F. Holick, ‘The Vitamin D Epidemic and its Health Consequences’.
“ cholecalciferol (vitamin D3) is substantially more potent than ergocalciferol (vitamin D2).” ‘Vitamin D in Health and Disease’ Heaney, RP
Now, some may say, alright no problem, just have your doctor write you a prescription for MORE VItamin D2–and it will be ok.
Not the case, see when we are deficient in Vitamin D not only is your immune system compromised, leaving you more susceptible to all kinds of illnesses and some disease processes including cancer according to studies, but your parathyroid gland can be altered which affects how your body utilizes calcium. The overactive parathyroid gland in a deficient Vitamin D patient will go back to its regular state if the body receives D3 (which is the NON-synthetic and natural type of Vitamin D that you can purchase over the counter)
This does NOT happen when you take the prescription Vitamin D2!
So, if you are taking Vitamin D make SURE it is the non prescription type.
DO Take Vitamin D3 – over the counter
Don’t take prescription Vitamin D2 (the synthetic)
Now, one more very important thing in terms of Vitamin D.
Ideally the best form is a liquid form, again, back to absorbability.
Most of the ladies here on this board who are having good luck getting their Vitamin D levels raised up well are taking a brand called Biotics Research (Bio-D Mulsion Forte) It comes in 2 strengths, most depending upon their levels are having to take the 2,000 iu a day for 4-6 weeks then retesting, but this is not something you want to just start taking without
This brand is the liquid Vitamin D– also much better for absorption and bioavailability. If you’re taking a tablet your body has to break it down
So my preference in order of best to worst is
1) liquid Vitamin D3 over the counter (BIotics Research is a really good brand)
2) If you can’t find liquid gelcaps are next best
3) tablets last on the list
All should be Vitamin D3, NOT prescription D2
a) having a Vitamin D blood test and
b) getting some help from either a knowledgable doctor or a good holistic type pharmacist
There are some very reputable pharmacists who are based in the US and do phone consults and who will talk to you free of charge if you have a dosing question like this. I really recommend everyone get comfortable with asking a good pharmacist questions because they can be very helpful for many things and if you find a good holistically based pharmacist can help support your health in many ways. If anyone needs some numbers of pharmacists who will do these phone consults I’m happy to post the one I use.
The other really important thing that docs will leave out of the Vitamin D Conversation with patients is that you should be taking it with food and some fat. So ideally you would take your vitamin D with the highest FAT meal of the day. Helps with absorbtion!
Bethanie,
Thank you very much…(optimal gratitude)
Sam
Re: What are the appropriate levels of Vitamin D and B12
SamK,
Hello, because each laboratory has different ranges that they use and sometimes Vitamin D is reported using different types of measurements, the easiest way to know if you have an adequate Vitamin D level is to look at your lab results and then look at the range for Vitamin D. The goal according to most holistically oriented physicians, is that our Vitamin D level should be at 70% of the upper range of normal.
Now, the numbers won’t look like this exactly, but if for example the range for Vitamin D was 1-100 in terms of your lab, then you’d want to have a Vitamin D level of at least 70.
For Vitamin B12 it’s a bit easier although labs will often times have different levels of ‘normal’. Bottom line for B12 is that you want to be top of the range or above. So if the range for B12 is 200-1200, you would want to be at the top end (1200 or even above is ok for B12) according to most holistically oriented physicians. In Japan, their levels are 1.5 times ours..and they are healthier, so there is some debate over whether the US levels are high enough. And since Vitamin B12 is water soluble, any excess is eliminated in the urine. You should always consult your doctor before taking any type of over the counter supplement or medication, but it is important to try to find one who practices more holistically or someone who is a functional medical practitioner because these physicians are more likely to be educated about nutrition and how to look at treating the source of the problem instead of simply treating the symptoms.
A regular serum Blood Test for B12 can sometimes be falsely elevated. A functional medicine MD or DO would know this and would run a urinary MMA test along with a serum homocysteine level to more accurately test for any B12 deficiencies.
If you can only get a regular serum B12 test, and that is low or below the top of the range, then it would be practical to discuss B12 supplementation with them. If it comes back high then definitely I would ask for the urinary MMA test and serum homocysteine test to be done.
And yes, both B12 levels and Vitamin D levels getting them and keeping them in the OPTIMAL range. Note I said OPTIMAL, not just “Normal”. You will read things from other patients where they say
“My labs are normal.” What you are looking for is OPTIMAL levels and where you are on a scale on the range.
For example, Ferritin ranges go from 10-291 in some labs. If you come in as a patient and your level is an “11″ you may be told you are within normal range. This is a real travesty for a patient. What you are looking for is a ferritin level that is at least 50 and sometimes people won’t feel best unless their ferritin is around a 70. I’m using that example because there are several patients here on this board who have had this same experience. Myself included, with the ferritin. There was another lady who went to 9 different doctors before she was properly diagnosed, and every one of them never mentioned her low normal ferritin which I believe she said was a 10 or 11.
Now, back to your question about mania. For some patients who do have manic depressive type illnesses, then some type of medication may be needed. But the thing is, that getting the B12 and the Vitamin D levels could potentially help these patients a lot, by either decreasing their depression because it would address the cause, not the symptom, or sometimes allowing them to take a different dose of their medication. This should be coordinated with a physician obviously.
Re: Reformulated NatureThroid Question
Hi Tracie, I’m on the NatureThroid and I guess I’m on the new kind because I’ve been taking it for about 1.5 years. I am feeling good, but my doctor increased my thyroid dosing to 1.5 grains about 4 weeks ago because he said I needed to do so. I guess it is pretty common to have to go up in the amount you take when it is cold.
Are you having trouble with it? How many days have you been on it and what’s your dose? I think sometimes we can get into issues where the doctor does not give an appropriate dose, and/or they make someone wait for 4-6 weeks before changing the dose. My physicians is awesome he taught me how to tell how the increase is doing for me by paying attention to certain things like my temperature, and how I feel etc. He also told me to check my pulse and blood pressure so I know how to look out for getting too much medicine.
If there’s something else I can answer for you I’m happy to share anything about my experience.
Is there anyone having good results with the reformulated nature throid? I just started taking it and was wondering how others were doing with it. Thanks
Thank you SO much for your reply! You have been so helpful and I really appreciate it. I know that my free t3 and t4 were normal, but I am not sure what the numbers were. I didn’t have the antibodies done this time, but in the past they have always been normal.
I have been on thyroid in the past after my last child was born, but I went off it after testing normal and I have always tested normal since. I have been off it for several years (I took synthroid and cytomel).
I had my b12 tested and it was normal and my vitamin D was very low so I am supplementing with vitamin D now.
I am taking 65 mg of nature throid right now once a day…I take it first thing in the morning. (Is 65 mg (1 grain) a large dose?)
I am anxious to see what I notice in regards to feeling better…how long does it take for symptoms to subside? Are weak. swollen and achy muscles a sign of hypothroid?
Thank you so much again for all of your help I really appreciate it!
WHAT AGAIN ARE THE APPROPRIATE D AND B12 LEVELS. IS IT ALSO KNOWN TO HELP MANIC HIGHS AND LOWS THAT SOME TREAT WITH ANTI DEPRESSANTS?
SAM
Re: Starting Nature Thyroid
Hello Walker, welcome to our thyroid support group. It’s nice to have you here. Regarding your “normal” TSH, do you happen to have the rest of your thyroid test lab results?
For example, do you have your
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
And Have you Had BOTH of your Thyroid Antibodies Tested (including the TPO Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies along with TG Throglobulin Antibodies?)
If so, please list those other labs as the TSH is not the most important part of the equation. The TSH is actually a pituitary test, not a thyroid test, so you need all the others in order to adequately assess what’s happening with your thyroid and not your pituitary bland.
Regarding your questions here’s some info
1. RE: Pulsatile Tinnitus can this go away now that you’re taking the NatureThroid?
A: Walker, were you on any other thyroid medication before, or is this the first time you are taking thyroid medication? If you were on thyroid meds before please post what kind, your dose, and your labs as listed above.
Also, what dose of NatureThroid are you on now?
The thing is, yes Tinnitus is a known problem when we have a thyroid problem and are not receiving the proper medication, so it’s possible that the NT will correct this. But the important thing is to make sure that we are receiving the right dose and that begins with having a comprehensive thyroid testing done, not just the TSH.
Q: Is it ok to chew and then swallow the NT?
A: It’s ok to take it in that manner, in fact swallowing the medication is how it’s recommended by the manufacturer to be taken.
HOWEVER, and this is a huge HOWEVER, most thyroid patients find that it works much better taking it sublingually and allowing it to dissolve. It goes directly into the bloodstream that way, bypassing the stomach, where it would normally have to be broken down and processed, and in the stomach other things like food, or supplements or sometimes other stomach conditions can affect how your body is able to actually utilize the medication.
So that’s really an individual decision, but I take mine sublingually and I have friends who are also on thyroid meds who find that they just don’t feel well–get very sluggish etc, when they swallow their thyroid tabs. They say they feel really good taking it sublingually. I know most on this board here are taking their Natural Thyroid Medication, no matter what brand sublingually.
Q: The nerve problem causing eyelid to droop
A: You know I haven’t specifically heard of that one before and I’m at work now so I can’t pull up any info to try to research that for you right now. I’ll look later tonight to see if I can find anything on that and if so I’ll post it for you.
The big thing that I think of also with regards to thyroid health and general nerve health is Vitamin B12. Many of us with thyroid disorders are deficient in Vitamin B12—and B12 if too low can cause nerve damage–sometimes permanent nerve damage so it’s important to test for B12 also.
Additionally, there’s Vitamin D that’s important to look at as well as serum iron and ferritin.
Have you had: VItamin D, serum iron or ferritin tested?
Hi, I just found this site. I am just starting NT even though I have a very normal TSH (1.6) but I do have a goiter and I have been having some symptoms that I didn’t even realize were related to hypothyroidism…particularly the pulsatile tinnitus I have had for almost 2 years…can this go away now that I am on NT?
I have been chewing my NT and then swallowing it…is that okay or should I do it sublingually?
Also…I have a nerve problem that is causing my eyelid to droop…could this be from being hypothyroid? My doctors aren’t sure what the cause is.
Thank you!
Hi Maggie,
Thanks so much. I will go ahead on Monday and see if I can get the generic Armor. If not, I’ll call my doctor and see about getting the Naturethroid prescription. As far as getting the B-12 figured out…do I need to just start taking vitamins? If so, how much should I take? Or is it a lab test thing? I have prescription D vitamins…just need to make sure that I take them. Thanks again!!!
Re: How Long Should You Wait if You Don’t Feel Any Better on Armour Thyroid
Hi, Sandy, this is just my opinion—but based on my own thyroid issues and reading thousands of comments from other thyroid patients — if I wasn’t feeling better in some way I wouldn’t wait any longer to try something else.
Walgreens pharmacies at least in my area are carrying the new generic thyroid medication Acella. The pharmacist said that if your prescription just says
Thyroid – and no brand name that you can ask that it be filled with the generic natural dessicated thyroid which would be Acella
Alternatively, if you are using a Walgreens pharmacy and you have a prescription for Armour thyroid, if you ask if they can fill it with the generic you don’t need your doctor’s approval to do so. They will, upon request, fill it for you with the natural dessicated thyroid brand Acella if you request it. Some Walgreens are doing this automatically anyway, but if you want to try the generic Acella, instead of just hoping that the pharmacy will fill it that way, it is best to ask them #1) Do they have the Acella Thyroid in Stock and then get that prescription filled if you want to try it
I haven’t checked other pharmacies other than Walgreens but if you use a different pharmacy ( I didn’t see where you listed which one) then just call them and ask very specific questions
1) Do they have the new generic Thyroid medication manufacturer (Acella)?
2) If so, will they accept the Armour prescription and fill it with the generic (Acella) if you request it. This should not be a problem because I verified it with the Walgreens pharmacist that these drugs/medications are listed as interchangeable in system, just make sure the other pharmacy if you use one will also do that.
You have to make sure you speak to a pharmacist—not a pharmacy tech. Even the Walgreens pharmacist didn’t know what I was talking about when I asked about the generic thyroid. I had to encourage her to look it up on her computer and not just tell me she didn’t think they had it. Because they DID indeed have it, she just had to take an extra moment, pull it up on the computer and verify that for me.
If you just speak to a pharmacy tech you may not get correct info, so you have to be very specific and ask specific questions
Also, here’s something that most paitents don’t know they can do. Instead of booking another doctor’s appointment and asking permission to switch to a generic which you actually don’t need the doctor’s permission to switch from Armour Thyroid to the generic…if you have any refills on your prescription just go and get another refill. Sure, you’re insurance company won’t reimburse you if you’re refilling before the 90 days is up, but as long as you have another refill left on your prescription, the pharmacy should fill your new prescripiton with the generic Acella if asked — but you would have to pay for it. I checked prices for a 90 day supply of the generic thyroid (Acella) 1 grain tablet x 1 per day and it was around 11.00.
So it’s not a huge expense and well worth it to get something in your hands right away that you could try if you’re not noticing anything different with the Armour.
About 98-99% of the messages I see from patients using the new Armour are not good. So with those odds, I really wouldn’t waste time hoping that it would work for me.
I do know most people, myself included are doing well on the NatureThroid–so that’s an option as well, or the Canadian like I mentioned before. But the NatureThroid would require that your doctor write the prescription for NatureThroid, it is not directly interchangeable with the Armour, like the new generic natural thyroid Acella is.
Having low energy and being depressed goes along with not being properly medicated on thyroid medicine. It also can be further exacerbated if your Vitamin D is low normal instead of high normal, and your Vitamin B12 is low. Many doctors will just prescribe an antidepressant, which has it’s own risks, instead of getting to the CAUSE of biochemical depression which can be certainly things like: inadequate thyroid dosing, or medication not working, low or low normal Vitamin D, and low Vitamin B12 among other things. Many, many people I know who addresed just those 3 things now feel so much better and depression is not on their list of problems anymore.
Let me know what you decide to do and if you need any help with the pharmacy or how to proceed.
All the Best to you Sandy—I know for me things looked so much better once I got those 3 things I mentioned fixed also.
Thanks Maggie. I have been feeling pretty bad for the last 6 weeks or so. I have been experiencing a very slow incremental decline for even longer. I don’t think I feel a whole lot worse energy wise than before I switched meds, but I don’t feel a bit of improvement. I don’t know what I should expect. How long should I wait before I go back to the doctor? My depression is pretty bad. That is worse this week for sure.
RE: All this Thyroid Information
Hi Sandy, I’m just glad we could help. And I know what you mean about it feeling good to share. I remember when I was first diagnosed with having Hashimotos and Hypothyroidism. I thought —no problem, just take a pill once a day and it’ll be fine. Oh my word then when it wasn’t fine I was so disappointed. Didn’t know who to talk to or where to turn. My doctor only wanted to prescribe Synthroid and that was a huge mess for me.
I’ve learned tons since that first day and so if you have anything you are worried about, have questions about, etc—please don’t feel like you have to do this alone. Without all the thyroid gals on this site I’d be a basket case by now I’m sure. Instead–I feel great all because I took charge of my own health which I would’ve never had the courage to do before having some great information and support.
Just don’t stay on the Armour for too long if you seem to crash consistently. Doctors may want you to wait 6 weeks but you know what I found? You don’t have to wait that long. I know within a day or so if a thyroid medicine is going to work for me. There’s no need to draw out the inevitable… Now, it may take a few weeks to actually feel really good, but I know almost immediately if the thyroid medication is working and having that tired washed out feeling in the afternoon is something that would tell me it wouldn’t be working for me very well.
Wow, so much good information. Thank you Carin and Maggie!! I’m happy to have this new knowledge. I’ll let you know how it goes with the Armour (I am taking the Armour brand). I’ll make sure to get the generic when I get the prescription refilled if I continue. Glad to know that of that option. I’ve been taking it now for just 3 days so I can’t tell much yet. I feel a little strung out in the morning and crash around 4:00. We’ll see.
I’ve have recently started taking vitamins. I’ve never been a good pill taker. I was diagnosed with low vitamin D about the same time my thyroid was diagnosed, but have only taken the D a few times. Now I’ll make sure that I do. I’ll add iron to the zinc, selenium, multivitamin, and B complex that I’m beginning to take. Maybe these will help.
So glad I found this web site. Feels great to share. Thanks everyone:-)
Re: Armour thyroid
Hello all, Hope everyone is having a good day. I wanted to drop by and say that no matter what thyroid medication you take it’s important to check your iron/ferritin levels, Vitamin D, and your B12. Adrenals can also affect how you feel and how your thyroid works.
All of these work together so even if you think your thyroid medication is not working—there can be other reasons for this to happen. Not just because of your thyroid prescription. Bethanie’s listed these tests that you should have, but if anyone needs them again, just let me know and I’ll repost for you.
Re: Armour Thyroid not working
Hi to all of you all who have hypothyroid issues. I am not doing that great either. Have been on the Armour thyroid since about 3.5 years, but like others who are sharing, I was not told that anything could be different with the medicine. Thus I did not know about the filler change and just thought my problems were something else. I have asked my doctor to test my ferritin and he says my iron is “fine”. I’ve also asked for the antibody tests and he says that’s not necessary. I’m just so tired I don’t know if I have the energy to insist anymore. I’m glad that I’m not the only one but am kind of mad at the Armour people who made these changes without telling us.
Re:Armour Thyroid is it working for anyone?
Sandy, welcome to our thyroid group. It’s hard to find anyone now who’s doing well on the new Armour. I guess there may be some but roughly for about every 100 people I talk to, maybe 1-2 think the new Armour is ok. More often then not thyroid patients are just not doing well on it. You may—but what happens sometimes is people will get all discouraged if they try the new Armour and think that the T3/T4 combos don’t work. Which is NOT true. They do work better. T3./T4 combos have been written up in the New England Journal of Medicine as a better way of treating thyroid patients, but most doctors get their education (hummm) about meds from guess who???? Yep, the pharmaceutical reps.
Now, you don’t have to get your natural thyroid from Canada. That is NOt the only option.
And depending upon where you got your Armour filled, you may not have even gotten Armour—if you went to Walgreens what is happening in many cases now is that they are filling prescriptions for Armour thyroid with the generic thyroid. ( A brand new one) called Thyroid NP (by Acella)
Thyroid NP (MFG by ACELLA) – just came out so there are not alot of comments/feedback on it yet. I heard it smells like the old Armour and it does not have cellulose in it so that may not be a bad thing.
It’s just hard because there is so much confusion and misinformation out there and many docs don’t even know about all the options or they get all bothered by patients telling them what medications they prefer.
But here’s what I would do if I had a prescription for Armour:
1) Find out exactly what type of thyroid medication was actually used by your pharmacy to fill your Armour Thyroid prescription
If it really is the new Armour, then you may wish to do the following:
2) Ask your pharmacist if they have the new generic natural dessicated Thyroid NP (MFG by ACELLA). If it is Walgreens they likely do or can order it. If not, maybe your pharmacy can get it (Note: it has T3 and T4 in it)
OR
3) Ask your pharmacy if they have Nature Throid (which is just another BRAND of natural dessicated thyroid and also has T3/T4.
All of these, the new Armour, the new Thyroid NP by Acella and NatureThroid are ALL natural dessicated thyroid meds. The differences will be in the fillers that they use.
In terms of comments/sucess feedback etc from other thyroid patients. Most people I know are doing just fine on the NatureThroid. Some, however, say that even crushing the tablets which helps for aborption still does not seem that the NT works well for them, and they are getting the Erfa Canadian Thryroid which also does NOt have any cellulose in it.
Again, not alot of feedback on the generic Acella thyroid that Walgreens is substituting, but the GOOD thing about that one is that it does NOT have any cellulose in it. There are different types and kinds of cellulose and some speculate that the type of cellulose now in the new Armour is what is causing it to be ineffective for so many people.
Now in terms of prescribing, you will have to tell your doctor what to do:(only because they usually have no knowledge of the varied options available for treating thyroid patients and there have been so many changes in the thyroid landscape the past year, unless they’re spending their time reading/researching these things…they are just not going to know. )
1) If you want Naturethroid (you have to have them write the prescription for NatureThroid)
2) If you want Armour, thyroid – if they write the prescription for Armour Thyroid you may get either Armour Thryoid or if a Walgreens pharmacy client may get the generic automatically without being asked which would be the NP Thyroid, by Acella. Other pharmacies may just fill with Armour…and not the generic. But generic does not mean synthetic… so the NP Thyroid by Acella is not synthetic it is generic and does have the Free T3/Free T4
3. To order the Canadian thyroid: all you’d need from your doctor is a prescription that says
Natural Dessicated Thyroid: and the amount ie: 1 grain, 2 grains, or 3 grains (your doctor doesn’t even need to know you are ordering from Canada) You can send your prescription directly to the Canadian thyroid manufacturer and they will mail order it to you. All they care about is that you have a valid prescription–your doctor does not need to be involved except to write the prescription in that manner.
There is also a Canadian pharmacy that many of the people in thyroid support groups have used that will fill prescriptions that say “Naturethroid” with the Canadian thyroid. I know…very confusing but we have to decide what will work best for us and not be afraid to try different types of thyroid medications because it is so important.
4. What some people do is ask their physicians to write the prescription no matter what the type for 1 grain 3 times a day (even though you wouldn’t take that much starting out) but it gives you some leeway in terms of being able to raise your dose if you need it and can be more economical that way if you’re using insurance
5. Also, because the different types of thyroid medications may vary a bit in terms of milligrams, what is easiest is to have your doctor write the prescription in grains rather than mg that way, any dose is equivalent to the other doses.
Now, I know that’s a ton of info. If you decide which one you want to go with if you don’t want to stay on the new Armour, then just post back and I can give you the exact written info you need to ask for based upon which one of the 3 tablets of natural thyroid that are now available to thyroid patients.
The other option is compounded natural thyroid, available also in the US, but that is way more expensive than the other 3 options) and it makes it harder to modify your thyroid dose. Some people just go with compounded if they don’t care about costs because they can control what fillers are used if they specifiy that to the pharmacy on the prescrption . Which you would again need to tell your doctor what and how to order this if you decide to go that route. Some patients have said though that compounded costs up to 10x the price of the other 3 options I outlined.
Hope that helps and hang in there–it sounds way more confusing than it actually is.
Just stumbled on this site today. I can see that I’m not alone with my low thyroid problems and frustrations with doctors, treatments and trying to feel better. Looks like I need to buck up and get mentally prepared for it to take a while before I find my own solutions.
I was so excited that my doctor allowed me to try Armour. I took it for the first time this morning. I’ve been on synthetic T-4 for about a year, without happy results and have slowly gotten worse. To try and give myself a lift I started to surf the internet this morning to find articles about Armour and was hoping to see lots of good things. Instead, I’m learning about the reformulation and all the problems people are having with the new drug.
Is there anyone out there having good results with Armour? I don’t want to waste time taking this medication if it isn’t likely to help. It took a lot of energy to insist on a change to a T-3/T-4 drug. I’m trying to visualize asking her for a Canadian prescription. I can just see her eyes rolling now.
Anyway…I’m glad to be grounded in the possibility that I may be in for more disappointment. On the positive side, I feel affirmed that my thyroid problems are not all in my head and that I will need a more comprehensive treatment than what my doctor can offer me.
Thanks everyone for sharing.
RE: Naturethroid and Trouble with Doctor
Susan, I am sorry you are having trouble with an inept doctor. So many of us have had similar experiences in the past with our thyroid troubles. There are also good books in addition to the ones that Carin mentioned that are good for those of us who eventually find doctors who can be educated.
Hypothyroidism Type 2, Dr. Mark Starr MD
Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness by Dr. Broda Barnes
Sometimes we find ourselves in a position where we can’t convince our doctors of anything. Although your doctor said he would change your prescription within 6 weeks, it is unfortunate that he would make you wait yet another 6 weeks before allowing you to change to something else that could potentially immediately help you. And why was he willing to write for Synthroid, and not Naturethroid?
These doctors do need education. I took a whole stack of books in with me for my appointments before I found a good doctor. And even the one I am seeing now didn’t know a whole lot until I printed out some outlines for him and showed him the books. I also told him that I was a member of the thyroid group here where we had much good information about what works and what doesn’t for thyroid patients.
I do also hope that you are feeling better. But please, as Carin said, don’t wait the full 6 weeks if you are still not doing well. There’s no point in suffering if the Armour isn’t working.
Good luck and I am glad that you are sharing your story with everyone.
Re: Doctor won’t change prescription to Naturethroid
Hi Susan, was just now able to get back online regarding your doctor’s appointment.
1. I have no idea why your doctor would refuse to change your prescription from Armour to NatureThroid. Unless they don’t understand that NT is simply a different BRAND- it is the same medication and THAT thousands of thyroid patients are now having trouble with Armour because they changed their formula. Yes, I do know most doctors would rather write a prescription for Synthroid because they get incentives from the drug companies to do so, but to refuse you as the patient this simple change is really unacceptable.
I know when we come in as thyroid patients and tell them how we feel they make giant assumptions that they know the reason like the other deficiencies..but bottom line is that Armour has not worked for many people since Forrest reformulated it, and if you have to work with this doc I would not wait for another 6 weeks, but that’s your call. If it were me I’d be calling this week telling him I need to work and be functional etc, and that there are many thyroid specialist physicians all across the country who have switched their patients to NT. This should not be an issue for him at ALL to do unless he is just unreasonable and refuses to listen in which case getting another doctor may be in order. If they can’t help us as patients with such an easy simple thing… I can only imagine what would happen if you needed something that actually required some thought or consideration.
This is a no-brainer…Armour is causing problems for thousands of thyroid patients…and for some doctor to say “no” they won’t switch you is ridiculous, And the physician is incorrect to think that the only option is going back to a synthetic T4 only drug which Synthroid is. There is an article in the NEJM that you can print out to show a physician who is not willing to read on their own about these issues that T4 is not found to be as good as both T3 and T4 for patients. Furthermore even though he writes “Armour” Walgreens is not filling most thyroid patients prescriptions with Armour but with the new thyroid medication that we discussed. So the NT prescription is just one way for you to get the natural thyroid that is more proven at this point then the newer one. How ridiculous for him to not write you the prescription for the NT….
You may want to wait another 6 weeks, but I would not if it were me. But that’s just my opinion:-)
And on the B12…it’s good you have a shot, but the methylcobalamin is more effective and safer, but I guess I shouldn’t expect these physicians to know that. It’s sooooo frustrating to think that our health care is in the hands of some medical professionals who are not willing to read anything once they get out of medical school There’s a book http://www.hospitalsoup.com/b12book, written by an Emergency Room Physician and his wife, an RN, that has plenty of studies and info in it about the different types of B12 etc.
If your doctor didn’t want to take the time to learn about the combo that I listed for you, the least he could have done was to look up the facts about methylcobalamin vs cyanocobalamin. Sometimes I will volunteer at a a clinic and the physicians always outline for the patients the positives and negatives about methylcobalamin vs cynanocobalamin and let the patient decide. It doesn’t sound like he took the time to tell you about the differences which is really disappointing. But at least you did get some B12 but his dosing for the future is most likely going to be too low for you if you are like most people who have problems with maintaining B12. It is water soluble, so a once a month dosing is not generally enough. This is outlined in the B12 book I mentioned.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/b12book
The D3 at 50,000 iu a week is fine (and it is what is in the endo textbooks). Most holistic doctors are prescribing the 10,000 a day for someone as deficient as you are and retesting in the 4-6 weeks as we discussed before. But he’s not that far off and you can do your own research and even speak with a holistic pharmacist if you wish to get more info about that. 50,000 iu a week is an ok dose–maybe not the optimal one that most other holistic docs would start you on, but not too bad either.
On the Vitamin D that you found locally. That may work just fine for you as long as it is liquid and you are dosing appropriately. If you can get the Biotics for next time you may want to do that but getting started was the most important thing because you were so low.
On your liquid B12 that could possibly be helpful. Some people if they are going to use the Liquid B12 say that the Jarrow Brand is one of the only ones that can work for some people. There are some of us with thyroid issues that do not respond well to any liquid B12 —our bodies can’t utilize it or convert it properly. This means that although it doesn’t hurt anything, it doesn’t really help. You can see if you think you feel better with it but I know another thyroid patient that spent 50.00 a month for a year on a liquid B and her levels were still in the 200′s. So for some just know it won’t raise you up like an injection would. The Nurse in the B12 book was saying how she had to educate her own doctors about the proper dosing of B12. They only wanted to give her the once a month dosing also which for her condition would have been dangerous.
On your other supplements and folic acid etc, maybe you could set up an appointment with that compounding pharmacy that I mentioned, or another one if it is closer to you and see if you could do a consult with one of the pharmacist on all your supplements and safe dosages. The one that I mentioned seemed to have a really knowledgeable pharmacist on staff and if that doesn’t work I know there is one in Austin TX that will do free phone consults with patients about questions on dosing etc. They are actually a greater sense of knowledge for many of us than the doctors because I think the pharmacists actually do continue to study once they graduate:-) LOL.
I am trying to remember the name of the Lady OB/GYN in your area. If you recall even the first name of the other one you saw, let me know because I think I would remember her name if I heard it. The one I had heard of though did take regular insurance so maybe there is another one that you could use as a backup if you needed someone to actually listen better:-)
Oh, and the tinnitus that you mentioned can be associated with thyroid problems…that’s another reason was hoping that at least you could try the NT right away to see if things like that cleared up. The last thing you want is for something like that to get worse.
It sounds like from your other post you figured out a way to fit all the dosing in. Did you happen to feel any better yet? If the Armour is contributing, the really frustrating thing is that you may not feel great until you can get on a different thyroid medicine.
Susan, I just got home but wanted to say thanks for posting your update. I’ll answer your questions either a bit later tonight. Have to do a few things around the house or tomorrow. Glad you got your B12 shot–although I sure wish he would’ve prescribed the methlcobalamin instead of the cyanocobalamin. But at least it’s a start. Also… I can’t believe he wouldn’t change your thyroid medication. These doctors!
Oh, in the meantime if you don’t mind what was the name of that lady doctor whom you said would not take insurance?
Talk to you soon and I’m going to grab some dinner really quickly.
It would have helped to have read the labels before asking. LOL
1.) The liquid Vit D3 just says take daily
2.) The liquid B12/Folic Acid says take AFTER meals
3.) The Multi Vit, Cal/D3 and Omegas say take WITH meals
4.) The Integra says take BETWEEN meals
5.) The Probiotic says on an EMPTY STOMACH
So I just need to figure out when to take Vit D3 (has to be refrigerated) and probiotics. In the am with the Armour or at night (but my stomach won’t be as empty LOL).
Hi Carin,
Well my appointment was very lukewarm today. Here’s how it went:
1.) He didn’t switch me to NT and says my biggest problem right now is how deficient I am and not my thyroid. I told him how I felt, about the Armour reformulation, etc. but then just let it go. He mentioned switching to Synthroid and I said no way. BUT, I said if I take what you prescribe and do what you say but still don’t feel better in 4-6 weeks will you switch me to NT and he said yes. Not great, but fair enough.
2.) He didn’t go for the compounding home injections, but did acknowledge how badly deficient I am and insisted on giving me a B12 shot right then (of course I didn’t object). I think it’s 1000 IU. He wrote me a script for it as well, but it’s only to be given once per week for 3 weeks and then every month which he said I probably will have to continue for the rest of my life.
3.) We spoke about the D3, iron and folate as well. He completely agreed about the D3 and said I must start it NOW but the current endocrinology standard for levels as low as mine is 50,000 IU every week for 6 weeks and then 2000 IU/day for life (of course if levels are good).
4.) He gave me a bunch of samples of Integra F which are to be taken daily and are in capsule form, not a pill, so hopefully it won’t be hard on my stomach. They contain the following:
Ferrous Fumarate (anhydrous) – 191.1 mg
Polysaccharide Iron Complex – 135.9 mg (equiv to @ 125 mg elemental iron)
Folic acid – 1 mg
Ascorbic Acid (from ProAscorb C) – 40 mg
Vit B3 (from ProAscorb C) – 3mg
5.) He said the Vit D3 you recommended was fine but to make sure and take 50,000 IU/wk. My Vitamin Shoppe doesn’t carry the Biotics brand so since I needed it like yesterday, I picked up a bottle of Trace Research Liquid Vit D3 5000 IU so I’ll basically have to take 5000 IU M, W, F, Sun and 10,000 IU T, Th, Sat. I’ll look for the one you recommended online and start taking it when this bottle runs out.
I also picked up a bottle of liquid B12 with Folic Acid. A dropper full daily is 1000 mcg B12 and 400 mcg Folic Acid. Do you think I should take this in addition to the pill the Dr. gave me?
I have some additional supplements that I’ve had but haven’t started taking yet because I wanted to see where my levels were at. These are the ones Dr. Oz recommended so since I already have them I might as well take them. They do contain additional D3 and Folic Acid though. They’re a Multi Vitamin and Calcium/D3 supplement. Together they would provide an additional daily does of 1,400 IU of D3 and 400 mcg of Folic Acid. So if I took everything I’ve already mentioned together (Dr’s pill, liquids I bought, supplements I aleady have) do you think it’s too much? The amounts you put in your last messages I think were more than what these 3 total, but let me know what you think.
Also, I’m going to keep taking my Armour in the am on an empty stomach so how should I take all the others? The pills (including my Omegas) I want to take with lunch and dinner but will the liquids affect the Armour if I take them in the am as well? Also, I have a Probiotic I’d like to take which is supposed to be taken on an empty stomach…do you think this will affect the Armour?
Well, I guess I’ll keep my endo appt and see what he says and maybe run some more endocrine tests before I see him. My appointment wasn’t fantastic, but at least it’s a step in the right direction.
Let me know what ya think and thank you again for all of your help!
~Susan
Re: Adrenals etc. For Susan
Hi Susan, The saliva testing I think the last time I did it was around 140.00 or so. It is kind of a pain to do..I tend to have a really dry mouth even though I drink tons of water, and I had a hard time getting enough saliva.
Instructions were to only do it on certain days of the month etc. Like this
“WOMEN COLLECT
Regular
Periods
Day 19, 20, or 21 of cycle
(fi rst day of bleeding = day 1)
Irregular
Periods
Collect when not bleeding (closest to
days 19, 20, or 21 – call lab for help)
No Periods Any day of the month”
I used ZRT Labs.
But with you actually being able to do the 2x a day lab draws, that could give you some indication of where you are with the cortisol, not as good as the 4x a day because it’s interesting to see the end of the day results but sometimes we just have to do what we can and not get ourselves all overwhelmed with the testing. I only had to do mine for one day (4x a day on that one day) but it was still a bit of a pain, and yes I had to freeze the specimens and then send them out the next day.
Regarding the hormone testing I can get my regular family doc to do that for me if I ask, so it doesn’t require the use of an expensive doc. If yours will redo your hormones and it has been a few years since you’ve had them done, just see where you are now and then you can decide what you want to do about it. Maybe things will be ok…but if you can get the testing covered by your insurance maybe it could be helpful to see where you are now. If it isn’t covered…then that’s another issue.
The main thing for you is that the D, ferritin and thyroid combined may just really help you to feel so much better. And it’s hard to fix everything at once, but if you can get the ok to add in things like magnesium or remember to take the one you have, then see how you do. And also the B12—(I don’t want to get your hopes up too high..but I have heard people that cannot believe how they feel in one day from a b12 shot if they are really low) And that in an of itself as well as correcting the thyroid can help with adrenals as can doing the vitamin C throughout the day.
So I wouldn’t stress too much about the other things. Do what you can…in a perfect world if we all had unlimited dollars and resources we’d all do adrenal testing and I know I may be criticized for saying this to you by some “die hard” thyroid people, who think that you must invest in the saliva test and so all kinds of nutrient testing etc, (I think that the tests I listed in my opinion are the most important to start out with and you can see how you do by fixing those things first, if funds are limited. And in a few weeks or whatever if you still think there are things that you need to tweak or think that something is interfering with your progress then think about adding in the saliva testing at that time.) In the interim since you have access to the lab testing at work…if you want to do a 2x cortisol to get some type of reading..that would be fine as well.
I’ll look and see what brand of bp cuff I have and post that for you tomorrow. I loaned mine out to a neighbor and can’t for the life of me remember which kind I bought. I’ll go over tomorrow and retrieve it and then will let you know. But it had good reviews and it seems pretty darn accurate on me and DH.
Since you’re in the medical field you could even just test your blood pressure 2 or 3x a day at work, and then do your pulse and temperature at home. The key is to track your numbers over time. Just use the thermometer you have right now and then chart your numbers and then see how you do.
Hi Carin,
I’m trying to find my labs from a few years ago from the female OB/GYN that I wish I could afford. If she saw all my deficiencies she would have me in her office doing IV supplement infusions which I’d love, but absolutely cannot afford as she doesn’t except insurance. Anyway, I did a lot of the testing you mentioned, she even had me on progesterone cream. I had the kit to do the salivary cortisol testing but just couldn’t afford anymore. I had already spent hundreds of dollars on just food allergy testing and in hindsight, wish I would’ve stuck to the hormone tests. Back then my serum cortisol was bad and I’ve suspect for years that I have some sort of adrenal insufficiency. What stinks is last week I had our MA draw my 8am and 4 pm serum cortisol levels and ended up throwing them out because I was going to bring them to my dr’s appt that was canceled. Then when I worked with her next, she said she could just use our lab slips instead of my PMD’s without a problem. So I’ll probably just go ahead and repeat them.
Also, with the salivary cortisol it’s fairly difficult to collect, right? You have to be very specific with the timing like 4 times/day for several days and freeze them right away which is hard to do with my work schedule. I may look into it again. Have you had it done before? Do you know the collection requirements and pricing? The box I had was blue and white but I forget the lab name.
Sea salt is no problem because my blood pressure is on the low end. My temp is usually around 97.0. I don’t have a mercury thermometer, just a digital and an ear one. Nor do I have a bp monitor. Our patients tend to have false high readings from the home units quite a bit, so do you have any recommendations for a trustworthy brand?
Re: Heart Palpitations with Thyroid Medication
Hi Betsy, I’m not LizBeth, but was online answering some other thyroid questions right now, and I’m a thyroid patient too, so when I saw your question about the heart palpitations thought I’d see if I could give you some things to consider.
First, as I mentioned to Susan there are quite a few things that can affect how we are able to utilize our thyroid medication, Some of the major things are your ferritin, iron, B12, magnesium, Vitamin D, and adrenal issues.
I didn’t stop to go back to see if you posted this before, but will do so after I answer this, but what type of blood work is your doctor testing?
Specifically do you have labs for these:
Free T3
Free T4
TSH
Reverse T3
TG Antibodies (Thyroblogulin Antibodies)
TPO Antibodies (Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies)
Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy
Iron panel to include ALL of these: (*Serum Iron, TIBC, and FERRITIN) you need them all
Vitamin B12 if you are not supplementing or taking a vitamin with B12 in it, and even if you are the serum B12 is not the most accurate test but most doctors will start by doing a serum B12. The most accurate is a urinary MMA test for B12, but you can begin with the serum B12 if you wish as long as you are not supplementing B12 already
Folate
Serum Homocysteine
DHEAS – I would ask for that to be tested also if you haven’t had that because sometimes that can be elevated if there are heart palps and/or some hormonal issues going on
If you haven’t had all of these tests, then do you have a doctor who you can approach and type out this list and ask him/her to test all of these things?
CBC and CMP is also normally done annually
If you have had any of these tests please let me know which ones you have had.
If you are having those heart palpitations etc, I would NOT take the thyroid medication sublingually. Yes it does ‘work’ better that way, meaning that food, and other medications are less likely to bind with it which would make it stronger and more effective taking it sublingually. In your case, maybe you are on too high of a dose, maybe your ferritin is too low, maybe there are other things going on, your adrenals are stressed, there can be all kinds of things that go hand in hand with how your body is able to utilize your thyroid medication but since you are describing things that can happen if you’re hyperthyroid, then I would not personally take yours sublingually.
And if it seems less potent with food, but you don’t have the heart palps that way, then by all means take it with the food. Yes, you’ll get lower absorption but that may be exactly what you need until you can find out what is going on.
You could also be very deficient in magnesium…most of us in the US are, and as long as your doctor ok’s it—– then you would want to ask him/her if you can try magnesium glycinate or magnesium gluconate anywhere generally people start at around 400 mg and some may take (*2) 400 mg tablets a day, but you could start with the 400 mg if your doctor says that is not something that would be harmful to your health to try. If you get loose stools then back down off your magnesium dose.
No, you don’t want to take magnesium with your thyroid medication, you would want to take it at least 2 hours before or after your thyroid medication. Most people take their thyroid first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, but perhaps you could ask your doctor about your taking your magnesium first thing if he/she ok’s that, then taking the thyroid medication 2 hours later and then if you need another magnesium maybe asking if you could take another dose before bedtime. Always check with your doctor first thought before doing or adding in anything. We don’t know here what other conditions you may have and we are all thyroid patients not physicians, so this is just patient/patient info and support.
With what you are describing it could be that either you are taking too much thyroid medication (and are getting hyper) because that’s what happens when we get hyper, or it could be that the ferritin and some of the other things I’ve mentioned are just out of balance and your body can’t properly utilize the thyroid medication that it’s being given.
If that continues I would make an appointment with your doctor, or get a 2nd opinion from another doctor, or if it gets worse even go to the emergency room if you have any doubts because taking too much thyroid medication can be dangerous.
You can also keep a journal, and note your pulse taken at least 3x a day and then jot those numbers down. If you have a home blood pressure monitor it’s also a good thing to check your blood pressure 3x a day to see how your b/p is faring. And first thing in the morning it can be a good idea to use an old style mercury type thermometer if you can find one, if not a regular one, and check under your arm first thing in the am. for your temperature before you even get up or move or get out of bed. Write that down in your journal. If you’re temperature, and pulse, blood pressure are running high, it is another signal that you can be on too much thyroid medication.
The magnesium can come in a tablet or powder, the powder you can mix with water or juice but the powder I got one time tasted awful, so I just get the capsules and as long as it is the magnesium glycinate, glyconate, sometimes people will also get the Taurate. Avoid Magnesium Oxide…not a good choice in my opinion.
Hope that helps, and please post back and let us know how you are doing.
Re: Blood Work for Susan
Hi Susan, thanks for all the additional info. Here’s some other thoughts for you.
1. Re: the tinnitus, this is something that can happen from inadequate thyroid dosing–so hopefully this will be resolved once you get on the NT and on the appropriate dose of thyroid medication
2. Your Glucose did seem low, it will be good to retest and see what it is this time
3. If your potassium is sometimes low, and since it is not high as long as your doctor doesn’t have a problem with it, then drinking the coconut water is a great way to add in some extra electrolytes into your system
4. From your sodium level it looks like you may also benefit if your blood pressure is not high from perhaps adding in some sea salt to your diet. At some point although it’s not covered by insurance a good saliva test (4x a day throughout the day) may be beneficial to test your adrenals which are often times over stressed with thyroid issues. Poor adrenal function (which can be helped by the sea salt, Vitamin C and Vitamin B12) can also make it difficult to raise one’s thyroid dose without feeling hyper, so I suspect this could be an issue. If wouldn’t be a bad thing to test the adrenals but I know you have numerous other expenses with co-pays and sometimes I have personally addressed the other things that I know need addressing and come back to the adrenals later when my own funds are short. In theory we are supposed to fix the adrenals at the same time as the thyroid but I do know sometimes we have to make choices based on the funds we have, and adding in your Vitamin C several times a day, and getting your B12, along with the sea salt if not contraindicated by any other medical condition could be helpful for you now.
Good that you don’t have Hashis- ie: your antibodies are negative. Great news!
Since you mentioned your monthly being an issue I would also add in a
DHEAS test: and if you can hormones which would include:
Estrogen
Progesterone
FSH
LH
Testosterone
Having all of those already tested as well as the DHEAS which is another hormone that can be out of whack both with women with thyroid issues and some menstrual issues so getting all that done prior to seeing the OB/GYN may give her some clues on what’s going on and/or at least a basis for her to make additional decisions about further testing.
Also if I didn’t already say it, do make sure you add in your
homocysteine test (serum)
Regarding your endo appointment that’s a tough call. I’m not sure I would cancel that, especially without talking to your primary about it. I think it’s wise to have another US and see what the nodules have done. Was the plan initially not to do anything unless they grew? Do you feel anything or feel your neck area being warm, uncomfortable, or painful? Most people say they do not, but we do have another lady on this board who had her thyroid taken out and she has said that she “knew” her nodules were a problem, even though many different doctors told her they weren’t. Hers kept growing though and by the time she self referred to the Mayo Clnic I guess they were obstructing her vocal cords and esophagus. So I’m not saying this to frighten you just a reminder to in addition to doing all your checks to make note of your internal “sense” of whether something is wrong or needs addressed with the nodules because there have been other patients whose “gut” reaction was right on-even though doctors told them to ignore it. There are though cases of thyroid cancer where the cancer was small or painless and the person has no symptoms–so it is important to check and follow up regardless. Just don’t ignore them if you do have symptoms because I always believe symptoms are our bodies’ way of trying to get our attention:-)
If you do keep the endo appointment and that if for nothing else just to perhaps get a 2nd opinion on those nodules, I would not ask or get input from them about the thyroid medication. I know there are always exceptions-but as a general rule, the endos I hear about and had gone to myself always want to change me from natural thyroid to Synthroid. So I don’t discuss meds with them at all.
If you are getting another ultrasound see if there’s someplace you can go that has techs that ONLY do ultrasounds. I guess that was another thing I learned that if you go to a generalist Ultrasound tech that does not have extensive experience scanning thyroids that sometimes the quality of the information provided will differ from that which you may receive by going somewhere and having your scan done by a tech who ONLY does thyroid scans. Some of us may not have that luxury, but I didn’t know that was important back at the beginning of my journey so just passing that on to you.
Finally, I know what you mean about being hyper. That is a miserable feeling. And, again with your low ferritin levels and possible adrenal issues, adrenals and/or low ferritin can cause this independently, but (even if your adrenals were in great shape) with low ferritin is can be very difficult to raise thyroid meds up to where we need to be because we need the ferritin in order to be able to properly use the thyroid hormone. So that could have contributed to the heart palps and problems in the past.
You may, however want to consider asking for a 2 grain prescription this time. And still only take starting out what you have been taking on the new Armour, but then you’ll have the extra medication so that when you raise your ferritin if your thyroid labs are still low like they still are now, that you’ll have the ability to raise up by another 1/2 grain or maybe even adding in another 1/2 grain every other day at that point with your doctor’s permission and after your ferritin comes up. Generally it is the same price for a one or two grain tablet, and using the tablet splitter is a great idea…plus having some “extra” thyroid med can help so that you’re not running out on the 90th day of your prescription and having to race to the pharmacy the next morning because your insurance only ok’s 90 days at a time. Yes…I hear from people who do this because they only have just enough tablets for the exact 90 days..and if they drop one and/or when it runs out–they have no spares to take and if the pharmacy doesn’t have their medication on the day when they try to renew it…some people have to wait a week until they can mail order their medicine in. I always say have a bit extra on hand..it is medication we need to function every day so don’t cut yourself so short that you’re setting yourself up for additional stress:-) Just a thought..
Do let me know if I missed something…. good luck tomorrow, will send good thoughts your way, and I will be very interested to hear what your doctor says about your testing etc.
What form do you take the magnesium in and how much? And at the same time as the NT?
Lizbeth, thanks for your prompt reply. I think I spoke too soon regarding my early success with tHe NT. What started as brief palpitations have morphed into warmth in the chest, palpitations that gave way to panic attacks and general jitters. My doc told me to stay at the 1/2gr dose but to split in in two, taking one in the morning and one at noonish. The first one I took in the a.m gave me a huge heart event, I think because I cut the pill and maybe the raw edge made for faster absorption on an empty stomach. So after a horrid morning of heart palps I was afraid to take the second dose and decided to risk in but not on an empty stomach. And yeehaa…that did the trick. No reaction. But the truth is that it probably wasn’t absorbed either because of my full stomach. Once again I called the RCL and they said it is certainly preferable to take the drug on an empty stomach for best absorption but if I need to eat first to stave off the jitters and heart crap then so be it. So that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Now I’m thinking I might try the sublingual route, except I don’t want it to be so strong that way and absorbed so thoroughly that it gives me the palps. When people say they feel better by doing it sublingually what do you think they mean? That it is stronger? If so I probably shouldn’t chance it, right? I’m a mess!
Oops, I forgot to tell you my dosing.
When my thyroid went out like 11 yrs ago they put my on Synthroid .05 mg. Then it went out again, so I went to the lady doc who prescibed 1.5 gr old Armour which worked much better. If I got a little hyper I took it every other day. With the new Armour I started taking 1.5 gr again daily, that’s my my labs prob improved. So, I’m going to ask for the exact same prescription I have now with the new Armour which is 45 count of 1 gr (which I cut the 2nd pill in half to make 1.5 gr). I like having the option of altering my dose if needed. With the NT I’ll start with the 1 gr and increase to 1.5 if needed because hyper for my is almost worse (I was in the ER for chest pains and palps before). Now I need to decide if I want to take it sublingually or not. I’ve never taken it this way before.
~S
Hi Carin,
Thanks so much for the supplement info! I’m writing everything down you mentioned about the B12, iron, etc. for my appointment tomorrow (which was actually confirmed today so it’s looking good thus far!).
Here are my CMP results (I’m going to abbreviate):
Glu: 66 (65 -99) – which I think is kinda low after eating a few hours prior but we’ll see
BUN: 16 (7 -25)
Creat: 0.72 (0.59 – 1.07)
Na: 137 (135 – 146)
K: 4.1 (3.5 – 5.3) – it has been low in the past
Ch: 103 (98 – 110)
CO2: 18 L (21 – 33) – this usually runs low when the sample isn’t tested right away
Ca: 9.2 (8.6 – 10.2)
All my liver enzymes are WNL.
And some good news…both my TPO and TG Ab’s are negative!!!
I forgot to mention my monthly has been so screwed up because of my thyroid. Late last month, early this month, etc. Plus I have endometriosis (gee I sound like a mess LOL) and my family goes into early menopause, so I prob will…yay.
I’m going to get a CBC and fasting lipid panel. My cholesterol has actually been low in the past if you can believe it, so I’m curious how it is now. If you can think of any other labs I should do, please let me know. Plus I’m going to get another thyroid US since it’s been like 7-8 yrs, to make sure the 3 nodules I had aren’t growing.
Do you think I need to keep my endo appointment next month if my PMD is helping me manage everything? The copays are a lot more for specialists. I have another appointment with a GYN for a laparotomy consult next month as well since my TOM’s are so bad (I’ve had 5 surgerys already). Maybe she might have some input into all of this as well.
Anyway, I’ll let you know how everything goes tomorrow and thanks a bunch!!!
~Susan
Re: Kate’s Labs
Kate, thank you for posting your CBC info. So I was just checking to make sure your Red Blood Cells were not elevated which they are not, they’re actually on the low end, so do ask your doctor to check the iron panel which is again : Iron, TIBC and recheck Ferritin – Once you have those please post the results because if your ferritin is still low and your iron is not elevated, then it would be appropriate to ask your doctor for the ok to do the iron supplementation
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron -as I’ve posted for Susan and others before is a really good one, much better normally than anything the doctor would prescribe because they don’t always pay attention to stomach issues and if they prescribe the normal iron —it can be torture on your stomach. This one is not and it is affordable. Much less expensive to order it than if I try to get it locally–so ordering that one if you do get the ok from your doctor to take iron, is what I would consider.
And if you do get the ok to take iron, post back here and I can review some tips on how/when to take it and what to avoid when you get to that part if it is appropriate for you.
One other thing to ask the doctor to run is both the CBC, and the CMP which will also give things like your potassium level and other electrolytes. You may want to ask him also to run again the H1A1C also–just to see if you’re trending upward or downward with that number and check that Vitamin D which I am concerned at this point with your high level of supplementation will be too high.
And if you are above range Vitamin D–your doctor may tell you just to lay off Vitamin D completely for a bit to see if you can get it back down to a normal range. Because again, too much is not good either–so you’ll want to be careful with that.
And then all the other tests that I mentioned in my first post would be good to request.
Your magnesium may be just fine. Can you look at your bottle and see what the ingredients say? Most of the time it will list the type of magnesium that it is on the bottle. Let me know what type it actually says on the ingredient list please.
When is your doctor’s appointment? Just as a precaution with your Vitamin D levels as high as they were last time…you may just want to stop taking that right now until you get another blood check. Because you’ve been on such a high dose, if you are getting overdosed on Vitamin D–that can be another reason for your extreme tiredness etc…and so it’s probably better to be safe on that and just stop taking it until you can get in to get your labs checked again and see your doctor. You can call and ask him for permission to stop taking the D but if you explain to the nurse that the last time what your levels were and how much you are taking they should ok this for you without any issues.
Re: B12 Compounding Pharmacy Information For Susan
Hi Susan, glad to help. Here’s the B12, P5P and Folinic Acid Information for the prescription
B12: There are several types of B12, Methylcobalamin, does not need to be converted in the body compared to the synthetic cyanocobalamin, and the methylcobalamin does not have a cyanide molecule attached to it, which your body would have to eliminate if you took the synthetic form of B12 which is cyanocobalmain. So I’m going to list the one that I use which is using the methylcobalamin instead of cyanocobalamin. The methylcobalamin is supposedly retained in the tissues better also.
Prescription: P5P, Methylcobalamin and Folinic Acid dosage: .4cc
every other day subQ
The Methylcobalamin (is the B12) the P5p is B6, and Folinic Acid is Folic Acid–this is the combo that my compounding pharmacy recommends, and they are very knowledgeable. If for some reason your doctor needs a consult on how/why to prescribe this, let me know and I can get you one of the names of the Pharmacists that he can call to speak with.
I was told several months ago that the Coastal Compounding Pharmacy in your area can compound the methylcobalamin, I don’t know if they can do the trio—but I would imagine they can. If for some reason they cannot let me know and I’ll give you the name of the one I use.
The breakdown is: Methylcobalamin 6.25 mg, Folinic Acid 5mg and P5P
6.25 mg per ml: and again dosing is .4cc every other day subq injection
I never use the stomach for the injection, always use one of the upper areas of the subq sites above the buttocks that’s easily reached.
Regarding testing your thyroid…you can test a bit earlier than the 6 weeks, I just think once you get all these other deficiencies corrected and if you get your doctor to finally prescribe a high enough dose of your thyroid medication, you aren’t going to have to keep running back and doing testing so often and can finally get yourself feeling better. I generally say 4-6 weeks is fine for a retest. If you want to do it at 4 weeks that would be ok. 3 weeks would be a little soon because you would want to do a check of your vitamin D levels and that’s another reason I said 4-6 weeks for the thyroid so that you can check your Vitamin D level at that point and see how things are progressing in that respect. As you know, getting multiple sticks all the time is not great for your veins..so I just think that if everything else is addressed really having blood tests every 3 weeks is going to be excessive.
I will go back and see if I can find where you said (if you said) exactly what dose of thyroid (The Armour) that you are on now, and then give you just my ideas of what I would ask your doctor to prescribe for you if I were going in with your labs. (Now, keep in mind again, all of this is just my perspective…I’m not a physician –this is just my opinion as a fellow thyroid patient so everything I am sharing should absolutely be discussed with your doctor and/or pharmacist to make sure everything is appropriate for your individual situation and care.
If you pay attention to your temperature, your vitals signs (blood pressure, pulse) etc and check these every day, you will actually know if you need to raise or ask for an increase in your thyroid medication by paying attention to both subjective (how you feel) and objective (your vitals etc) signs and symptoms. The tricky thing for you at least at first, is because your immune system is so depleted along with the iron, and other things (stress, and not having proper thyroid medication which further depletes everything) you’ll just have to do some catching up before you will probably be able to differentiate the thyroid trouble from just being depleted from all these other things.
But you will start feeling better probably fairly quickly if you can get on the proper dose of the Vitamin D, and get some type of the B12 injections going, It will take a while to get both the D and the iron/ferritin level back up where it needs to be, but most people who are so low who do start supplementing are relieved when their body gets back some of the components that it’s been lacking:-)
And get on some other thyroid medication other than Armour that will hopefully work for your body. Everyone is different, and there are some people like we’ve discussed that say they don’t like the NT either. But I still think for the majority of folks at least the ones who are doing the NT sublingually, that it works so much better than the new Armour. But take it step by step, see how you do and feel.
Let me know if I’ve forgotten anything…and I am really glad that you’re finally going to be able to get in with your doctor tomorrow:-)
Hi Carin,
I’m in bed but can’t sleep (typing on my phone) but have to be up in 5 hours so I’ll write more tomorrow after work but wanted to type a quick reply since all your info is awesome!!! Thank you so much!!! Yes I would like your B12 cocktail ingredients. I have no prob sticking myself I can even draw my own blood. LOL I did do a CMP but didn’t post bc all was in range but you know more about this in relation to thyroid so I’ll post tomorrow evening. I’ll bet that OB/GYN you mentioned was the same one I went to. She really knows her stuff but doesn’t take insurance & I can’t afford her even with the professional curtousy discount she gives since she refers patients to us. I wanted to do my CBC but we didn’t have anymore purple top tubes at the office I was at that day.
But it was already on my list for the dr on Thurs bc I’m a little concerned about my H&H with all these other deficiencies but I’ve NEVER been even close to anemic, in fact I’ve always had the H&H of a man! So I’m curious to see if that’s affected too. I had purchased some supplements that Dr. Oz had recommended including Vit D, which I had a feeling was low just not THAT low so we’ll talk more about those later too since I’m in bed.
So I don’t retest my thyroid for 6 weeks after starting the NT? I thought it was every 3 weeks until stable. I think I prob just read that somewhere. I do have a wonderful Mg powder I highly recommend called Calm by Peter Gillham which I should be taking more often. You take it at night like a tea. I’m wondering if all these deficiencies are causing this horribly loud tinnitus I’ve been having for the past few weeks?!
Also, since you mentioned it, I do have immune probs which I never had before & acquired 2 yrs ago after my dad was sick in the hospital for 3-4 months. It was stress & I just ran myself down & got one if the worst cases of shingles, not to mention EB which prob caused chronic fatigue. Not to mention I’ve had asthma since childhood & since my thyroid went out like 11 yrs ago it caused really bad stomach problems, so I’m glad you mentioned the iron issues.
Anyway, I write more tomorrow & thank you again!!!
~Susan
Susan,
The good news is that you have LOTS of things that are most likely making you feel badly and that’s a good thing because it means that there are many things (in addition to your thyroid) that can be corrected!
Your Free T3 is still too low, it needs to be at the upper end of the normal range. Free T4 you want midrange or above. TSH is the least important — I always just get the Free T3 and Free T4 within range and then see where the TSH is. If the TSH is lower –that’s fine and doesn’t mattter, but if the TSH is raising, then you know you have a problem.
With your iron and Ferritin Low I would absolutely talk to your doctor about just getting approval for supplementation. My best advice is DO not take a prescription that your doctor would write for iron. Most of the time they write prescriptions for iron that is so hard on the stomach and so tough to absorb that most patients stop taking it.
This iron supplement here in my opinion is the best, and the one I and many other thyroid patients use and do very well on.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron
It is easier on the stomach than most any other iron supplements, it is affordable because some of the other ones you have to take 2 or more tablets to get as much iron as this has in one, and it is a gelcap which means it’s easy for your stomach to break down. Well, well worth using.
Now, you have to take iron with vitamin C- I like to take mine at least with 500mg of Vitamin C- 1000 is even better, and at least 4 hours away from your thyroid medication, magnesium, or calcium. What I do is take iron about one hour prior to going to bed, with a full glass of water and some vitamin C. I use the vitamin C powder so it has no fillers in it or any other sugars or anything.
Your Vitamin D- is critically low: This is very important that you get this addessed IMMEDIATELY. Do not let your doctor write you a prescription for Vitamin D. Prescriptions are D2 the synthetic, and what you want is D3, the natural type of D that your body would make normally. So over the counter D is the best, and you definitely want a high quality liquid D3.
My favorite is called Biotics Research Bio-D-Mulsion Forte (2000iu per drop) If your’e going to buy this one make sure you get the one that is 2000 iu a drop, You DONT want the 400 iu per drop. Normal dosage for someone as low as you are on Vitamin D would be 10,000 iu a day of the BioD Mulsion Forte for 4-6 weeks with a lab test at that time. You don’t want to stay on high doses of D indefinitely because it is fat soluable so you don’t want too much or too little. But in your case, it is really at a critical level and you should get that up as quickly as possible.
What you are striving for in terms of your labs is a Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy level that is at least 75% of the upper end of normal. If you re-test in 4-6 weeks and you come in at around 35 or so, that is still critically low and again, you need to be 75% of the UPPER end of normal. All this you’ll need to get approved by your physician, but if he gives you any slack, let me know because this is what other holistic doctors are prescribing. Sometimes if a doctor is not holistically focused they will not know some of this and will only want to get their patient’s D levels within range, which is simply not good enough.
You have as you can see, very low B12, (actually that is something that is also very important to address aggressively, and that along with the low folate, are also common in thyroid patients) and you would not want to lets say be in an accident and have emergency surgery with your B12 level that low.
B12 you need levels at or ABOVE the top of the range.
Are you open to getting B12 shots? If so, I will post for you tomorrow the exact prescription that I would ask your doctor to write for. It would be an injectible that is B12, Folate and B6 and would be the best and most efficient way of getting your B levels up where they need to be. This in turn with the iron supplementation will help get your iron and ferritin levels up where they need to be.
Treating your deficiency of Vitamin D will help your immune system, energy level etc.
And all of this in combination is essential to the proper functioning of your thyroid.
Other tests you can ask for would be the CBC, and CMP. + a full lipid panel. Also next time when you get your thyroid tests (or if you order them yourselves from the lab slip … (smile:-) Here’s what you need to order:
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3 (These are all the follow ups you will need) You never need the other thyroid tests that you ordered
so leave OFF the Free T4 Index and Total T3, (you don’t need those) but next time you check your thyroid tests (after you start on the NatureThroid and not until about 6 weeks from then, make sure you get the Reverse T3 checked because I think that one was missed this time around)
Hopefully, you DID order the TPO and TG antibodies and they are the ones that you said have just not come back yet, and if those come back this time, you do not need to check those every time you check your thyroid levels, I generally just test those maybe once every 14-16 months or so but only if someone has positive antibodies the first time. If the antibodies come back negative you don’t need to retest for them unless something really changes with how you feel in the future that is not explained by other things.
Since I’m not seeing your CMP or CBC, I don’t know what your calcium, potassium or cholesterol levels are:
If your potassium is in range but not at the top of the range or low normal, most thyroid patients will do and feel better by including some kind of electrolytes in their daily regimen like coconut water. This has more potassium in it than bananas and is well used in this day and age by lots of marathoners etc. It’s great as a pre and post workout drink and you can mix it with pineapple juice or some other juice or in a smoothie to get some electrolytes in your system. Just make sure that you get a potassium test to see where your levels are now.
Magnesium is also something that most of us are deficient in. I wouldn’t bother testing for it..the blood tests aren’t very accurate anyway, but magnesium is common in thyroid problems and can also contribute to osteoporosis which we as women and thyroid patients tend to have.
I take a good quality magnesium glycinate or gluconate supplement every day and that’s also important for the thyroid and energy metabolism etc. You don’t want to take magnesium if you have kidney disorders, or extremely low blood pressure so check with your doctor first to make sure that he ok’s everything before begininng any supplements.
Let me know if you want the names of the supplements I use or if you want me to list out that prescription info for the B12 injectible for you. You can give yourself the shots or if you have someone at work maybe could help you with that as it’s less expensive if you just get the prescription from your doctor. If he won’t prescribe it because he’s not familiar with it or doesn’t know anything about it, let me know. There was a lady on another forum here who was in your area and there was an OB/GYN that someone found who is familiar with B12, and natural thyroid etc who does prescribe this and there is a really good compounding pharmacy I think in your area…take a look and let me know who can compound the B12 mix that I just mentioned.
http://www.coastalcompoundingpharmacy.com/about_us.htm
The pharmacist there is very knowledgeable, we’ve spoken to him before about other things and he’s very helpful.
Ok, hope that gets you started…good news is you should be feeling better as soon as you get some of this in order!!!! No wonder you feel so wiped out…there is a reason!
Hi Carin,
I got all my lab results back except for the TPO and TG Ab’s. My thyroid tests are better because I increased my dosage but I still feel crummy so I’m still going to ask to switch to NT. However, my glucose, Vit D, B12, Folate and iron are quite low. Here are the results:
TSH: 1.98 (0.40 – 4.50) – better than the previous 3.87
T4: 7.9 (4.5 – 12.0)
Free T4 Index (T7): 2.1 (1.4 – 3.8)
Free T4: 1.1 (0.8 – 1.8)
Free T3: 2.7 (2.3 – 4.2)
T3 Total: 97 (76 – 186)
T3 Uptake: 27% (22 -35%)
Iron, Total: 44 (40 – 175) – on the low end
TIBC: 361 (250 – 450)
% Saturation: 12% L (15 – 50%) – LOW
Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total: 20 L (30 – 100) – LOW & states I’m deficient
Vitamin B12: 249 (200 – 1100) – on the low end
Folate: 4.4 L – (> 5.4) – LOW
Glucose: 66 (65 – 99) – this seems low to me since I wasn’t fasting and it was drawn only 3-4 hours after I finished eating.
Well, Carin let me know what you think and any suggestions you may have including anymore labs you might recommend. I’m scheduled (AGAIN) to see my PMD this Thursday so at least I’ll have my results for him to see. I’m sure he’s going to recommend taking supplements.
Talk to you soon,
~Susan
RE: irradiation with thyroid medications
SAMK, Interesting thought you had there… I guess that could be possible. Never even considered that so thank you for bringing that up. I know there are some supplement companies that use that to market their products and say that’s why their product is more expensive etc..because they don’t go through irradiation but I never thought about how this could potentially correlate to our thyroid meds.
I wonder how they would go about proving or disproving that theory. Would be kind of interesting to find out.
Have you gotten your labs done recently since you lost your “zip”? What about your Vitamin D level do you test that regularly and are you able to keep it up where it should be? I still have trouble getting mine up and keeping it up. Guess that’s because I have hard time remembering anything else but my thyroid medication.
Anyway, would love to hear more from you and if anyone knows something else about irradiation, please share with the rest of us!
Betsy, I was glad to find your message today. I had been taking Synthroid, just T4 and had insomnia, fatigue, really unable to concentrate — you name it –I was having trouble with it. Then I was switched to Armour Thyroid and up until about a few years ago I did very very well.
One thing I noted that seemed different from many people who were hypthyroid is that when I was on Synthroid I had the heart palpitation and panic attacks and depression. But with the old Armour all those problems went away. I have only begun to try the NatureThroid, have just been taking it for almost a week and everything is much better. But I was still having that panicked feeling until my Nurse Practitioner suggested I start some magnesium. Now I’ve only taken the magnesium for the past 3 days and I’m afraid to get too excited…but the panic feelings are GONE.
Thought maybe you could look into this if you had the panic feelings and/or heart palpitations.
Re: Sublingual NatureThryoid
Hello Betsy and welcome to our thyroid group. I saw your message and was especially pleased. Yes…someone that checks and double checks things like I do!!! Great.
I too had called RLC labs, the manufacturer of NatureThroid to ask about the sublingual route, but I had been also on the old Armour for more than 7 years. And I always took the old Armour Sublingually. Years ago when I check with Forrest Labs I was also told to just swallow the tablets. Trouble is I have lots of issues including IBS and so I just never felt like I was digesting anything properly–including my food or medication. So I consulted with a compounding pharmacist and he suggested going the sublingual route–which worked so wonderfully for me for years with the old Armour. Until they changed the formula. So then I was back to square one–not knowing what to take or what to do.
I changed to NatureThroid and called like you did to ask about the sublingual option. Was told to just swallow the tablets, but I just didn’t ever feel 100% going that route. When I learned from here and other boards that so many thyroid patients were having better luck with the sublingual I decided to try it. Now, everyone is different and I’m not telling anyone to change if what they are doing is working, but for me, the sublingual works much better.
When I asked my pharmacist why the SL can work better than just swallowing he said:
1. You get the medication more directly into your system because the stomach doesn’t have to process it
2. Many times thyroid patients have low levels of stomach acid, thus making it difficult for digestion and even assimilation of certain nutrients (B12 is another nutrient that can decline rapidly as we age)
3. For sublingual users it is less important to worry about waiting an entire hour before eating or in my case having my coffee because the medication is not having to go into the stomach, need to be digested, and then I can eat. Instead because it is being absorbed directly into the tissues etc, food won’t interfere with the process. Now sometimes I think a small amount is swallowed anyway, but the majority of my medicine is absorbed instead of swallowed and this way food and the calcium in the milk that I have in my coffee doesn’t bind the thyroid medication which would then make it ineffective if I didn’t wait a whole hour before eating
I guess the manufacturers which put out these meds will only tell us about swallowing them because that is how they were tested. And to put out formal alternative ways of taking the medicine they would probably have to do another entire set of clinical studies, which costs so many hundreds of thousands of dollars that it wouldn’t be cost effective.
So for each of us, that leaves us I think as individuals to decide what works better for us, taking orally or sublingually. I have a few co-workers who are also on thyroid medicine. One lady who just started on NT this July, found that she still had pretty bad hyposymptoms by taking it orally, however, she has lost 25 pounds over the past few months and feels great after changing to sublingual. Now everyone don’t start emailing me if you don’t lose weight if you change to sublingual, but I think we all should perhaps talk to our own pharmacists and/or try the sublingual route if the oral route isn’t working, or if we have stomach issues, and/or if anyone is like me and just has the hardest time getting enough hours in the day to separate taking thyroid medication and waiting to eat!
NT does still have cellulose in it–it’s the microcellulose rather than the macrocellulose, but this also can cause alot of patients to still have problems because the cellulose can interfere with absorption. Supposedly, taking the medication sublingually can break those cellulose bonds and help get the medication into one’s system in a more efficient manner, thus making it work better for anyone who has issues or is unable to break down the cellulose.
Anyway, maybe more info than anyone wanted or needed to know.
I’m so glad you’re having success with the NatureThroid—great, great news and thank you so much again for posting your story. If I were doing well with the oral route, I’m not sure I would change anything–just saying for me, that I’m an “old timer” with the sublingual and my labs also are not as good when I test them if I swallow the medication.
Great website, very helpful. I have been on Levoxyl for 9 years and doing fine. In November of 2010 I had a sudden down turn and became very symptomatic with predominantly depression and panic attack symptoms, some gastric issues as well and low body temps (96.2)and a low TSH of .84. My naturopath suspected the Levoxyl from the getgo but my internist was not willing to make any changes other than letting me lower my Levoxyl from 75 mcg to 50 mcg. Finally after two months of hell (and psychotherapy, Reiki, accupuncture, SAD light therapy…all in an attempt to lift the depression) I went to my holistic gyno/hormone specialist, who promptly took me off the Levoxyl and started me on 1/2 grain Naturethroid. The very day I started taking it the depression vanished. I do have a period each day of racing pulse and elevated heart rate but it passes within about 5 minutes with deep breathing exercises. Otherwise I feel ALMOST like ME again! My quick positive response to the Nature-throid was probably due to the addition of the T3, but alsoto be fair the lowering of the Levoxyl a month earlier most likely had a part in it as well…just took forever to work. Also I can’t discount all the other paths I took seeking relief, the accupuncture being most helpful with the anxiety. My question is I see a lot of people on this site crushing and doing the Naturethroid tabs sublinguially. I am tempted to do so to encourage continued success, but maybe I should leave well enough alone. I called RCL or RLC or whoever the maker of Naturethroid is regarding this and they say no, the tabs are meant to be swallowed and that is what their chief scientist suggests. Just FYI to you sublinguilists! Good luck to all of you in maneuvering this thyroid maze and I hope you all find great docs and NDs as I have been fortunate to locate here in CT. For now I am LOVING this Nature-throid, but it might be too soon to tell!
Has anyone considered that the dedicated thyroid itself might have been required to go through a new process like irradiation and it altered the capacity of the T# within the material to yield the benefit we all saw diminished after what we were told was a filler change. The old Canadian I purchased worked until this last batch NOV 1st and since then I have gained weight, my immune system is far less capable, and no zip.
I think there is a secondary cause like the one I just mentioned that is the actual culprit, and might have been a second command from the FDA to the procurers of the actual pig thyroid.
Any thoughts from anyone on this?
Sam
Hi, everyone,
Just want to say hi, I learned a lot from you guys. I’m on armour thyroid right now and not doing well, tomorrow I’m going to make an appointment with my doc and try to switch to Nature-throid. Thanks, everyone.
RE: Doctor Never Called Back – For Susan
Susan, I’m so sorry that your doctor’s office didn’t call back. It’s awful that they aren’t ‘getting it’ that when the thyroid’s not working—nothing is working. Glad that you took charge though and got your lab draws. Just know that the non-fasting is likely to show “better” numbers than what you actually have. If you need more info on that let me know. Sometimes we have to make the best of things and getting your labs done was probably a good choice even though you couldn’t be fasting–and at least you didn’t take your thyroid meds so that will help.
Re: asking the doctor you work with to write a script for the NT for you. If it helps you may want to reiterate to him that it is the SAME medication that you are currently taking–it’s just that the manufacturer has CHANGED the fillers in the new Armour Thyroid and it’s the filler that’s causing not just you, but thousands of thyroid patients across the country to have problems with it. So you’re not asking him to do anything different for you, except to change the BRAND of the thyroid medication you are on. If your dosing needs to change you can worry about getting that changed when your regular doctor comes back.
If the other doctor you work with still won’t do that, maybe you could call that nurse back from your doctor’s office and tell her that you need a call back that day and tell her it is just a BRAND change that is needed—not a different prescription.
Re: the Acella I can certainly understand. Wish I had more feedback on it, but since it is so new, only a few weeks–it’s just hard to know how that will do for people.
I take my NT sublingually…crush it with my pill crusher, then pour the crushed tablets into a spoon and then take the spoon and let the medication drop into the front of my mouth between the teeth and lower gum line. I then put a drop or two of natural local honey on top of that, and it seems to help make it absorb much quicker. Sometimes people will complain that the medication stays a long time, but I just move it around a bit while it’s dissolving and I don’t have a problem with it at all.
Regarding dosing changes switching from the new Armour to the NT—initially my dose was exactly the same, but I did recently do some additional testing and I had to increase my NT by 1/2 grain. First I was taking 1 grain more, but that was too much, so I have backed down to 1/2 grain more than what I was taking with the new Armour. Many people have to increase during the winter season anyway and I have been on NT for quite a while now, so I don’t think it has anything to do with the new Armour–just that I needed to increase my medication now. But most people will just start out on an equal amount of what they were taking on Armour, unless their labs show that they needed an increase. If that’s the case (ie: labs are showing you need an increase, I go ahead and let the doctor write for the higher amount) then maybe start with the original amount that you were taking on the new Armour, and just make sure that after a day or two you’re not feeling hyper, because there’s so many of us having the same problems–and some people’s labs went way out of bounds with the new Armour. But even if labs don’t look awful, some thyroid patients have had their cholesterol values go way up, or have all kinds of back pain, hand pain, body aches and pains all over, foggy thinking, cold, hair falling out, among other thyroid symptoms. So to answer your question, anytime the doctor is going to write for a higher dose, I always let them write the prescription for the higher amount, so that I don’t run out of thyroid medication. But you can decide if you want to start out with the NT on the exact dose that you were taking of the new Armour, and then after a few days as long as you’re not feeling hyper, bump up to the dose that will be your new dose. That is just my opinion on what I would do—can’t tell anyone else what to do because I’m not a doctor. But I ask the pharmacist questions on things like this all the time and they are usually a good source of help–sometimes even more so than the doctors on dosing questions:-) So, everyone should ask their doctor or pharmacist if something like that would be ok for them.
Good luck for Monday… I’m hoping that tonight you will have some better news:-)
Whew! This is a great board!
No visit, no Rx.
It’s 9 pm and I have been reading this page off & on since 8 am! Same story, bad docs, med shortages. Tried OTC supplements when the first Armour shortage hit – things did not go well. Finally got a supply from a pharm in the UK, anti-aging something.com. First DX for hypo came about 15 years ago, my TSH was 326. The doctor was in a “panic” over that. I felt bad/slow/tired/cold, but his nurse made me feel like I was dying based on that lab. He put me on Synthroid. Six weeks later my TSH was an 8. He said it was high, but happy with the big change. He never tested anything except TSH. I moved, another doc, kept me on Synthroid. Again only TSH test. I moved, same thing – Synthroid & only TSH. Then I had a mystery rash/allergy. Doc said it was milk. I LOVE milk. So I scoured through EVERYTHING I ate or took looking for a milk source. That was when I discovered Synthroid had “milk” in it. Told Doc, if I can’t drink it, I’m NOT taking that pill. She said “find something without milk & I’ll write you an Rx”. I found NDT on the Internet. She was NOT happy, but wrote the script. Fast forward two years, feeling MUCH better on the NDT (old Armour) I might add – SHE decided she could not control my thyroid & I should see another doctor. In short – she DISMISSED my from the practice because I refused to take Synthroid!! My TSH was a 12 at the time. She, like all the other Docs ONLY tested my TSH. The Doc she “sent” me to did not prescribe NDT – I never went there. Found a Doc on the list of “Top Thyroid Doctors” – he wanted me to take SYNTHOID!!! Then I found a Doc that will give me NDT – it’s a three hour round trip to see her
I have a new job which is great, but don’t want to take so much time off from work. AND she makes me come up when my labs are not good – they never are
I have a list of four possible docs closer to home, hubby is going to make calls for me tomorrow. I’m back to ordering online from the UK, Nature Throid this time. Currently on a compound 30gr – I take 3 a day per doc. Actually FEEL better on two. OH! current Doc does test more and she DX me with Hashi last year. Meanwhile, my supply is low and I’m afraid to be 100% without, so I am dosing at 30 gr a day, until more arrives – thinking a little is better than nothing?? And I almost feel better – weird, because I’m thinking Doc is going to raise my dose again. Here are my YO-YO numbers:
April 2010 – dosing at 60gr NDT
CBC- everything normal – including iron & a “D” test (no test done for B??)
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 53.9 [32.0-100.0]
T4,Free(Direct) 0.68 LOW [0.82-1.77]
TSH 22.650 HIGH [0.450-4.500]
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab 95 HIGH [0-34]
Antithyroglobulin Ab <20 [0-40]
Triiodothyronine,Free 4.0 [2.0-4.4]
AUGUST 2010 – dosing at 90gr NDT
CBC – all normal – no D or B testing. Only thyroid tests as follows:
TSH 37.760 HIGH [0.450-4.500]
T4,Free(Direct) 0.51 LOW [0.82-1.77]
Triiodothyronine,Free 1.6 LOW [2.0-4.4]
JANUARY 2011 – dosing at 90gr NDT
CBC- all normal – no D or B testing. Only thyroid tests as follows:
TSH 9.700 HIGH [0.450-4.500]
Triiodothyronine,Free 1.8 LOW [2.0-4.4]
I do take OTC
D3 – gel caps daily 2000iu to 10,000 iu – on the high end, only if I'm feeling a bug coming on.
B-12 mcg – sub-lingual
Idoral – per Doc 1/2 of a 12.5 tab ( did the 24hr urine test – joy)
If I remember, most often not – a multi, fish oil and a natural progesterone creme.
I take everything in the morning. Avoiding calcium and soy (stay away from that as a rule) when taking my meds. Wait at least 1 hour before eathing anything. Just started taking my temp in the am – over the past six days my average is 98.7 Still trying to understand Dr. Barnes theory. Is my body temp saying all is well? Yet my labs said ewwwww??? Do I need more or less NDT???
I used to think Doctors were smart ~ my husband reminds me they are "practicing" medicine. Oh, he's SO right!!!
THANK YOU!!
Hi Carin,
Well good news and bad news. Bad news is I left a very explicit message at 8:30a for my Dr’s MA or RN and not only did they not call it in, they never even called me back! The good news is that I got the MA at my work (I’m an ultrasound tech) to draw my blood and since I used to be a lab tech, I filled out all the tests I wanted on the send out sheet. I wasn’t fasting because it was drawn at 5:30p, but I didn’t take my thyroid meds today. Strange thing is though I had little to no sleep last night and had a suprising amount of energy today. I didn’t feel great, but I wasn’t in my usual fog. It’s after 8p and I’m just now eating dinner (just got home a little bit ago), so I’m sure I’ll be paying for it tomorrow.
As a last ditch effort, I may ask the Dr. I work for to write my a script next week, but I’m not sure if he will. And, I’m crossing my fingers that my Dr. is still available for my appt next Thursday and hopefully all my labs will be back!!!
I’m going to hold off on trying the Acella since it’s so new and it smells even less “piggy” than the new Armour. Plus, I really don’t want to consume mineral oil.
Do you take your meds orally or sublingually? Did your dosage change when you switched from New Armour (the devil) to NT?
Thanks again!
~Susan
BTW…I live in Palm Beach County
Re: How to get your doctor to order the proper Thyroid Testing
Barbara, when I was first diagnosed I had a really tough time finding a good doctor to do my testing also. I guess I have a question for you. Is she the absolutely only choice you have? If she is the only doctor whom you can possibly see, then you can try to encourage her to do further testing by asking her how she is certain that the T4 in the Synthroid is properly converted to the type of thyroid hormone that is available to be used in your body which is the T3?
Additionally, you may discuss that the TSH is a pituitary hormone, and shows that the pituitary is working, it does not indicate a functioning thyroid gland. The reason you need the Free T3 tested is because the Free T3 will show how much T3 in the form of thyroid hormone that is in the active or available state.
If that doesn’t work then you may just have to recognize that not all doctors are willing to learn and you just may have to find one who either already understands thyroid treatment or who is willing to test the thyroid hormones fully and not just the pituitary hormone and who is willing to listen to you and treat not only the thyroid numbers, but also go by what your body is telling you by how you feel.
How can I get my doctor to order the correct thyroid tests? All she orders for me when I ask is the useless TSH and she never orders the Free T3 at all. How can I present it to her so that she needs to order the Free T3 and the Free T4? It makes sense to me why I should have it but not to her? Thanks
Hi all, I’ve actually changed a few primary care doctor’s minds by making sure that I printed off information about Free T3 and Free T4. There was an article that you may want to take in that a lady named Jessica linked to here in an earlier post about the study in the New England Journal of Medicine which showed patients do better on T3 and T4.
I figure if I take the time to do the research, print it out, and then my doctor doesn’t listen–I find someone else. With my last two Internists that I’ve had I’ve been lucky because I gave them both the info–they read it and understood what my reasoning was for requesting additional testing. I have not had any luck with endocrinologists though–for some reason they think they know everything about the thyroid and seem to be the most arrogant and unwilling to learn anything new.
Regarding Back Pain and Armour Thyroid ?
I am also having very bad back pain and I guess I am on the new Armour. My thyroid was removed due to thyroid cancer back in 2006 so I’ve had to take thyroid medication for many years. Right after surgery I was given the awful Synthroid but that made me sick to my stomach, I had awful headaches, and was very lethargic and cold all the time. Changed over to Armour and thought I had a brand new life! But I thought something had not been right for a while. Now I’m reading your wealth of info here about Armour and I guess it all makes perfect sense now. My doctor is hard to get into see but I suppose I need to go in and talk to him about trying one of the other thyroid medicines. Did anyone who was having back pain get this resolved? If so what did you do?
Re: Acella Natural Dessicated Thyroid
Got several questions already from other patients about my post regarding the brand new other natural dessicated thyroid medication that’s available in the US. It’s called Acella, but unfortunately because it’s brand new, we just haven’t received enough feedback from other thyroid patients yet to know whether this one will be working for most of us or not. Acella does have both T3 and T4 and no cellulose–so that could be a real positive.
Here are the ingredients:
NP THYROID 30 – levothyroxine and liothyronine tablet
Acella Pharmaceuticals, LLC
NP Thyroid (thyroid tablets, USP) for oral use is a natural preparation derived from porcine thyroid glands. They contain both
tetraiodothyronine sodium (T4 levothyroxine) and triiodothyronine sodium (T3 liothyronine) providing 38 mcg levothyroxine (T4)
and 9 mcg liothyronine (T3) per grain of thyroid (or per 65 mg of the labeled amount of thyroid). The inactive ingredients are calcium
stearate, dextrose monohydrate, maltodextrin and mineral oil.
From what we have heard Acella is being substituted by Walgreens Pharmacy for those on Armour. If you are on NatureThroid and go to Walgreens please report back to let us know if they try to substitute this for NatureThroid as well.
And, if anyone does try or has tried the Acella Thyroid medication, please write in and share your comments.
Re: Changing Prescription
Hi Susan, Your work schedule sounds very hectic right now and how awful to have to go through all that when your thyroid medication isn’t working. Good for you though in calling the pharmacies in advance and already knowing that your Walgreens couldn’t get the NT.
I hope you can leave a message for your doctor’s nurse tomorrow. There’s NO reason that they should not be able to call in your prescription to Clark’s immediately even without waiting for him to come back. Again, it’s not like you are changing med types…the ONLY difference is the fillers–so this doesn’t take a rocket scientist to get that approved. Sometimes, I think we’ve lost all common sense in our medical care. I hope they can get something sorted out for you soon.
If you wish to share what city you are in I am happy to put an email out tomorrow to ask if anyone in your area knows where to get NT locally also.
And you are so welcome…I remember what this feels like — as if it were yesterday. Hoping you can get the new med really soon.
Oh, almost forgot. I have not personally used the Acella, but there are a few others here who have talked with some who also got it from Walgreens. Apparently Walgreens is substituting this for thyroid patients on Armour. It is BRAND New—just came out so not much is known re: feedback from patients about how it works. The Acella is also a new generic natural thyroid medication that contains 19mcg of T4 and 4.5 mcg of T3, it does not have any cellulose in it which theoretically should be a good thing. In terms of feedback others shared it seems since it is so new the jury it still out on this one. There were 2 people who said they liked it and that it helped them and 1 other person who said it gave her a stomach ache, while another complained that it made her feel terrible. So I just don’t know about it.
“On paper” in terms of the ingredients it looks like it should be ok–there were some patients who commented that if one needed to be gluten free there was one ingredient listed as ‘maltodextrin’ and they weren’t sure about people with possible gluten intolerances.
Here’s lots of hope and luck that you can get something in soon or if you decide to try the Acella—I hope that it will help you feel better ASAP!
Well I guess I’m out of luck until next week and hopefully not later. The pharmacist said she’d call around for me tomorrow, but I called another store and that pharmacist said I will NOT be able to get it in the state of FL because they’ve been having problems getting it so it won’t be available until maybe next month. I may just leave a message on my dr’s RN’s answering machine and beg her to call or fax Clarke’s with my info tomorrow, but I have a feeling she won’t OK it since he’s out of town.
I’ll let you know how things go. Meanwhile I have to be up at 5am and don’t get home until 6:30-7p because work is nuts again tomorrow. I could barely talk/walk last night because I had the same kind of day on Wed.
Wish me luck!
Thanks for all the support!!!
~Susan
Hi Carin,
I already had done all my research prior to my appointment today and was going to get a 3 months supply from Clarke’s because my Walgreens doesn’t have it in stock and doesn’t regularly carry it. So I just called a different local Walgreens to see if they have it in stock and they don’t, so I told the pharmacist how sick I was getting and if she knew if there was a way she could check the computer for the other locations’ stocks. She was very sweet and said she would call around for me and let me know either way (they all close in like 35 mins so I’m keeping my fingers crossed!). The local compounding pharmacy does not carry it either, so I’ll probably get my Dr’s office to fax the script while I’m there and then call Clarke’s and pay the extra money to have it overnighted if possible.
BTW…have you heard of the thyroid med Acella? It’s the generic for Armour (which is ridiculous because Armour is much cheaper than synthetics) and it was subsituted for my last Armour refill. I still have the entire bottle but haven’t touched it because it’s the first brand new FDA approved natural thyroid med and anything the goverment messes with (aka New Armour) usually stinks. Anyway, just curious if you’ve heard anything about it.
~Susan
Re: New Armour thyroid – Family Doctor’s Emergency and Feeling Awful – For Susan
Susan, I’m so sorry you didn’t get your appointment today, but this is an emergency for you as well. Because the new Armour for whatever reason does not sound like it is working for your body and as you know thyroids affect EVERYTHING.
Here’s some ideas and I don’t think it is unreasonable at all for you to follow through on this:
1. Call your pharmacy and first ASK if they have NatureThroid in stock (at least a week’s worth) If they do not call others and ask A) if they have Nt and if not how long it will take to get it.
2. Explain to the pharmacist what happened and ask them what would be needed to give you a one week’s supply of NatureThroid. When you find one that has it
Note: Do not talk with a pharmacy tech, ask for the Pharmacist themself..sometimes the techs don’t know what NatureThroid is or that there are other natural dessicated thyroid medications.
Armour, NatureThroid and Erfa from Canada, as well as compounded natural thyroid are ALL the same medication: (what differs is the FILLER ONLY). Remind the pharmacist of this if they give you any trouble. Some pharmacists will have no problem giving you the other name brand of the medicine especially for one week if yours is not working. Others will contact your doctor’s office for you and request the change electronically.
Just to make sure everyone is one the same page I would, if I were you, call your doctor’s office and ask to speak to whomever is on call. Tell them you just need the change of the medication called into the pharmacy. If your regular pharmacy doesn’t have it, see if they can order it for you so that next week you can get it right away. In the meantime call some others pharmacies in your area and see if they have it–that way you’ll already be a step ahead and when you call your doctor you’ll know which pharmacy to tell him/her to call in the change.
But sometimes phamacists will help you with this step and/or not require it.
If you run into any trouble at all finding NatureThroid let me know. Clark’s in AZ will ship it out to you and they have good prices and are reliable. They can even overnight and that may be worth it to get your medication if you can’t find it locally.
Most other patients whom I talk to can always get theirs (NatureThroid thyroid medication) at Walgreens, Safeway or Randalls. Sometimes Costco will have it, or can order it, but don’t wait until next week to try to find it.
See what the local options are and if you make some calls today —there’s a good chance you may if you can find it locally just be able to get a one week’s supply until you can see your doctor next week.
That’s not over-reacting or anything. Not having proper thyroid medication can be harmful and/even life threatening….so don’t feel badly for asking.
Keep me updated and if you need other info or help–please ask.
Yes, I changed from the new Armour to NatureThroid and I feel great now:-) It took probably about a week to feel my best, but I noticed the change right away.
Now, most likely you won’t be able to use your insurance to pay for this small amount of NT, but it should only be a few dollars and is worth it for sure to have a medication that can help you feel better right away.
Hi Carin,
Thank you for all the info! Unfortunately my doctor had a family emergency and I had to reschedule my appointment for another week.
Stinks because I am dragging so badly and am having a hard time keeping up at work and we’re slammed with patients! My appointment isn’t until 1:15 pm so fasting may or may not be possible (I’ll try and sleep later) but I do know not to take my thyroid meds that morning (which aren’t really working anyway LOL). I’ll let you know next week how it goes and then I’ll post my labs when the results come back. Until then I’m like a zombie!!!
BTW…did you switch from the New Armour to Nature-Throid? If so, how long did it take for you to start feeling better? Anyone else who’s made the switch I’d love to hear from as well.
Thanks!
~Susan
Glad I saw this info and everyone talking about the Armour. I’ve been having severe trouble also but my doctor never said anything about armour changing.
Re: Thyroid Labs for Susan
Hi Susan, that’s great news that you will speak to your doctor Thursday about changing your thyroid medication. Here’s a “tip” that may or may not be useful to you, but I always feel that it’s better to be overprepared than underprepared:-)
Ok, so many of us when we changed from the new Armour Thyroid to another thyroid medication at first many of us weren’t sure which other thyroid med would work best for us.
The two most popular choices right now in my opinion are either the NatureThroid or the Erfa. Both of these are natural dessicated thyroid tablets, but the NatureThroid is easier to get in my opinion, because you can get in the US. The Erfa has to be ordered from Canada…not a problem, but it takes longer to get it because you have to deal with the longer shipping times from Canada as well as the medication needing to go through customs.
What I suggest to patients is if your doctor is open to it having him/her write a prescription for both thyroid medications. This gives you flexibility so if one doesn’t work well with your body, you can always try the other one. Without having to pay or make another appointment–wait to be seen by your doctor etc.
Mine had no problem doing that for me at all. And it gives me peace of mind knowing that if I needed to order the Erfa — I have the prescription to do so. You may decide not to ask for both, but it is an option so I like to tell people if they like to have lots of options–it is a way to make sure you are covered with options for your thyroid medications.
The NatureThroid prescription can be written as follows
NatureThroid – strength in grains so for example, if you are taking 1 Grain of NatureThroid your prescription would read
NatureThroid 1 grain
1 grain is = to 60 mg of Armour, but the Erfa comes in 65 mg which is actually equivalent to one grain. I find it easier just to ask that all my prescriptions for thyroid are written in grains so that there is not a confusion in pharmacy with them having to call the doctor if someone writes the wrong mg ie: 60 instead of 65 because they can’t remember which thyroid medication has which mg to go with it.
The prescription for Erfa should be written as follows:
Natural Dessicated Thyroid – 1 grain, or whatever strength you are taking (no mg at all should be used for the Erfa prescription) Most order theirs either through Universal Drugstore in Canada or direct from the manufacturer.
http://thyroid.erfa.net/
Additionally, in many cases the price of thyroid medication is the same whether you order a one or two grain tablet. At least in the US for the NatureThroid. So to save money, some who are taking a one grain dose of NatureThroid ask their physician to write the script for a 2 grain tablet, then they use a tablet splitter to 1/2 the tablet and this can save 50% of the costs of the thyroid medicine. Most prescriptions in the US are like this–not just thyroid medications. Apparently, they price by the pill, not by the mg, so seniors have known these tips for years. I mention it because many of us now are on high deductibles with health insurance and so this can help keep costs down and there’s no need to pay more than you need to even with insurance.
So that should give you several options and info about prescription thyroid medication (natural dessicated choices other than Armour) There is also compounded which you can get, but that is more expensive and has other drawbacks which I can address if anyone wants the pros/cons on that.
Regarding thyroid testing here’s what I’ve learned from this thyroid support board:
Thyroid testing:
Free T3
Free T4
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPO) Antibodies
TG Antibodies
Reverse T3
TSH
Make sure the doctor orders BOTH antibody tests..not just one, you need both
Also:
Ferritin, Serum Iron and TIBC (need all 3)
Vitamin B12 – you can start with serum (blood testing) but if you are supplementing B12, let me know, then this won’t be accurate and even if you’re not supplementing there is another more accurate test. Sometimes people if they are not supplementing start with the serum B12 anyway to see what it is
Homocysteine
Folic Acid
Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy
You can also ask for a morning cortisol test, which is helpful in some cases. The best cortisol testing is 4x a day and is done via saliva, but if you’ve never done a saliva test and don’t want to pay out of pocket for that now, at least the a.m. cortisol could be done if you want to get some idea of how your adrenals are doing at least in the am.
Regarding your nodules, yes that’s a good idea to repeat that. Especially if you have any tightness or feeling of fullness or choking feelings in your throat. We have a lady here whom I will ask to post for you about her experience with nodules if you’d like. She normally is on one of the other groups because she has another medical issue, but thyroid nodules and problems were very much an issue for her and she has TONS of info on that. In fact, I learned most of what I know from her and from Bethanie:-)
Mistakes I and other patients have made in the past.
Don’t go into your doctor and ask them to “test your thyroid”. Most of the time you will not get the appropriate tests and you end up having to do things over. Do go in with a list of the things you want from the list I’ve listed here and add other things you wish to have tested so that you are asking for specifics. Even the Vitamin D test needs to be a specific one–so don’t “ask to have Vitamin D tested”. Instead on your list it should say Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy is the test that you wish to have done.
Additionally, when you have your labs drawn, do NOT take your thyroid medication the morning of your lab draw.
Do FAST for 12 hours prior to having your thyroid labs drawn but you may have water during your fasting period, no juice or coffee prior to labs.
DO Have our labs drawn first thing in the morning, or as close to first thing as you can ie: 7:00 or 8:00 is great if you can manage it
And DO take your thyroid medication with you so that immediately after your labs are drawn you can take your thyroid medication.
Ask if you’ve got questions. Hopefully that all made sense. Good Luck and keep me posted on how things go:-)
Hi Carin,
Thank you for your reply. I’m already looking into Nature-throid as we speak. I have an appointment with my PMD this Thursday who will order/prescribe anything I want because he knows I know my own thyroid and then an appointment with a new endo next month.
Please let me know what labs you recommend. I’ve read the following: T3 & T4 and both FREE, TSH TPO, Iron, Ferritin, TIBC, Vit D. Plus I’m going to repeat my ultrasound since I had 3 nodules like 7+ years ago.
I look forward to your reply and thank you again for your help!!!
~Susan
RE: New Armour and Dosing
Hi Susan,
Regarding the new Armour and the article you had spoken about and the twice a day dosing here are a few thoughts.
1. Twice a day dosing isn’t necesarily bad—but I do think the author’s advice about taking the 2nd dose after dinner isn’t great. Because most people are not going to sleep well if they take their thyroid medication so late in the evening. I have, however, heard of some thyroid patients who find that taking the first does of thyroid medication when they wake up, and then the 2nd dose about 5-6 hours later, can help them get through the day and not get so tired in the afternoon. Because natural thyroid medication ie: Armour, NatureThroid, Efra or compounded natural thyroid medication all have both T3 and T4 in them–the T3 has a shorter 1/2 life and so the effects of T3 are usually gone after about 5-6 hours from taking it.
Now, there are other thyroid patients, and I am one of them, who feels much better taking the entire dose of medication in the morning. So that is something you just have to try to see what works the best for you.
Because we’ve just continuously heard so many people complain about the new Armour, I’m really not one to encourage thyroid patients to stay on a medication that is just not working for them.
I know sometimes people may read a comment here or there about NatureThroid being reformulated, which it has, but the VAST majority of people writing in–at least here are reporting that NatureThroid is working so much better for them than the new Armour. And if you’re already feeling terrible, there isn’t alot to lose by trying something else–right?
I also wanted to address in the article where you posted the excerpt about “cutting or splitting the throid medication with a razor blade.” That I would NOT encourage at all. It is much easier and safer to go to the drugstore, Walgreens carries them I know, and purchase a pill splitter. I like the blue cylindrical type and that one works great for splitting the thyroid meds if you need to and are taking a tablet that can be split or cut safely.
And you really don’t need to spend an arm and a leg for the expensive doc. If you already know your TSH is 3.87 you don’t need to wait for the endo to tell you that is too high. In fact, most endos I know are clueless about thyroid and you may even be told, depending upon what lab range they use, that the TSH is “within range.”
However, some labs are already lowering their TSH levels and many patients, myself included don’t feel well unless their TSH is completely supressed. If you have a family gp who can order the right labs for you, it is not that difficult to learn the numbers yourself and work with a family doc who’s wiling to learn and listen to how you’re feeling so that you can get on the right medication dose.
I know there were some posts earlier on about people saying Armour (the old type) was coming back. Just don’t see that happening anytime soon. At least if the company is going to do that they aren’t ‘fessing up to it, and we just aren’t getting reports of patients being on the new Armour who are doing well.
Furthermore, I wouldn’t want to stay on a medication that was keeping my TSH so high if I wasn’t feeling well. Best advice I can give to anyone, is to start making some changes if you aren’t feeling well, doing well etc…because there’s no reason to stay sick and tired. It’s not necessary, and we all deserve BETTER.
If you need help interpreting labs or need help with the list of what to ask your GP to order, just ask. There’s so many people here who’ve been in your shoes…we all know what it’s like to feel miserable, and those of us who’ve been willling to make changes –also know how freeing it is to actually feel human again:-)
RE: Still on Armour and Feel Terrible
Diane I know it is just awful to feel badly and be told everything’s normal. And there’s much more to it than having labs which are within range. First you have to know exactly what your lab’s ranges are, then you have to be sure that you’ve had ALL the proper thyroid tests, and finally, it’s important to know things like your Vitamin D status, Iron including Ferritin, as well as Vitamin B status. Adrenals can also be involved with thyroid problems, and maybe even more important than anything else…is HOW YOU FEEL. Since you say you are feeling terrible, this is a clue that something is not working correctly for you.
Let’s see if we can’t give you some info to know what some options could be to discuss with your doctor or find another one if you aren’t getting the help you need.
I’m having trouble reading your labs properly, so let me see if I’ve got what you wrote correct.
1. Your TSH was 1.710
2. Free Tt 0.97
3. Free T3 4.0
Is that correct? Could you kindly respond back to this post and list your lab’s ranges by the results?
For example
1. TSH 1.710 (Range 0.5 – 3.50) or whatever your range is for your lab
and do the same for all of the above
Now, before even asking for some of the other labs, let me say that most people at least who are writing in and whom I see in thyroid support groups are NOT doing well with the new Armour. So, it’s really up to you but I personally would not keep taking a medication that is making me feel horrible and expect that something will change regarding that. Because if it’s the medicine that is the problem—then nothing else you do is going to help this.
Most people are doing much better on either NatureThroid or the Erfa from Canada.
Will your doctor write you a new prescription so that you could try the NatureThroid and see how you feel?
What does of Armour are you on now?
Have you ever had your thyroid antibodies tested? How about B12, Iron and Ferritin?
I AM STILL ON ARMOUR AND FEEL TERRIBLE. WHEN I WAS ON THE OLD FOMULA I FELT GREAT. I HAVE MY BLOOD WORK AND IT IS NORMAL. MY NUMBERS ARE TSH3 I.710 T4FREE 0.97 T3FREE 4.0 I HAVE SO MANY HYPO SYMTOMS AND NOW IM LOSING ALL MY HAIR. IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. THANKS FOR ANY HELP
RE: Naturethroid on Backorder – Help: For Annie
Here’s an article that I hope helps you on options so that you’ll never run out of your thyroid medication again. BTW, were you able to get your prescription filled yet? I was away from Internet Access over the holidays so just now getting your message.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-conditions/how-to-never-run-out-of-your-thyroid-medication-practical-thyroid-tips
Susan, I would not recommend taking thyroid meds at night. Some people do ok if they take 2 doses during the day, usually the first one early am, and the 2nd dose around 5 hours later. This will not however help if you need a higher dose–it just helps some people avoid the later afternoon tiredness that sometimes happens. I however just do better at taking one dose in the morning, for some reason I don’t feel as well if I split my dose. Most of my friends with thyroid troubles are the same but I do know a few who say they like to split the dose and take their thyroid medication twice during the day. Taking it at night is kind of counter productive because the thyroid hormone will give you energy, so having more energy at night isn’t great unless you work nights in my opinion:-)
I forgot to ask if anyone takes their meds at night and if that makes any difference or if it keeps you awake?
Thanks!
Hi Carin,
Thanks for the info. I had some labs done in October so I’ll have to post them here when I get copies. I had some hyper symptoms after starting the old Armour (although I was starting to feel better) so they had me try different doses like every other day, etc. Then I was laid off for a year so I wasn’t able to get regular testing unfortunately and kind of just gauged how I felt on certain dosages. I couldn’t keep going to the Dr. I mentioned earlier because she doesn’t except any insurance, so my PMD has been monitoring me. He did do a whole battery of thyroid/autoimmune testing and I had an ultrasound years ago that showed 3 small nodules. My PMD isn’t as vigorous as an endo I think, but I’ve known him since I was a kid and will test, prescribe, etc whatever I ask for which is a huge plus but only tests me every 6 months or so because of insurance I think. He himself has bad thyroid issues but I think he does well on Synthroid. Unfortunately he’s so darn busy all the time, there’s not much time to talk so that’s why I made an appointment with an endo in February (first available) and I pray he is good. if not, at least my PMD always works with me. I was considering Nature-throid but people are saying that, like Armour, it has a lot of shortages AND it has been reformulated as well.
So, I’m thinking since it’s been many years since that last thyroid ultrasound I should probably have it repeated. Also, I was wondering if there is anything else you can recommend since I’m back to work (I’m an ultrasound tech) and have insurance. Should I get the full thyroid battery done again? I’ve heard others mention Iron, Ferritin and Vit D. Also when you’re determing which brand/dose is best, how often should your T3, T4, Free T3/T4 and TSH be tested to make sure you’re in the optimal range? I think I read like every 3-4 weeks? Whatever is best, I will just go to my PMD and ask him to either draw my blood or give me scripts, I just hope he’s allowed because regular testing might be limited to endo (insurance wise) but at least I’ll have some more results to bring to my first endo appointment in Feb.
So Carin, then the best recommended way to take your thyroid meds is on an empty stomach and wait an hour to eat and then at least 4 hrs before taking any iron or calcium supplements?
Thank you for all of your help!
~Susan
Carin – thank you so much for your post. My “gut” has been telling me the same thing. I am going to research a new doctor ASAP. Of course, that is not an easy task. Thanks again. Your information really helps!
Re: Armour Thyroid and the article and Is T3 Dangerous
Susan, thanks for sharing your experience. I am asking Bethanie to post up your article here with some current information because the one that you mentioned has very “old” information and if we simply talk about it as is…we’re going to get thousands of thyroid patients asking about it, so having some current info will hopefully help everyone much better. Thank you for mentioning it though because it helps to know that older info is still out there and sometimes that’s where people are getting their thyroid info from.
Quick note: I personally don’t think there’s any hope in the old Armour coming back. I have called the company many times to confirm/deny the rumors that have been out there, and I know we’ve had some here who have posted that their doctor said it was coming back. Quite honestly…I don’t think this is going to happen, it certainly has not happened yet, and it’s dangerous for us as thyroid patients to keep taking a medication that is no longer working for us in the ‘hopes’ that it will return to the old formula. Both Bethanie and I always say…
“If you are taking Armour thyroid and it’s working for you, meaning that you feel good, you have good energy, your hair is not falling out, your cholesterol levels are in good ranges, your Free T3 is top of the range, Your Free T4 is midrange, you can concentrate, you’re not cold, your skin is not dry, your vital signs are good, you can maintain your weight well, etc, etc– then keep taking it, it’s obviously working for you.” However, if you have several issues with the above, and you have symptoms of being hypothyroid, then what do you have to lose by trying one of the other natural thyroid medications like NatureThyroid or Efra to see if that corrects your symptoms?
It’s not about medication jumping, it’s about getting a good quality of life for you. And you, are worth it! We all are and shouldn’t settle for sub optimal medications or feel like we should have to stay on something that’s not working.
Cynthia, your labs are way too low. Cytomel (T3) is only dangerous if you are taking it inappropriately. If your Free T3 levels were already too high, and/or if your pulse rate and temp’s are elevated, and if you have hyperthyroid symptoms, then yes, you would not want to increase your dose.
With those labs, and compounded medication being even more expensive than the NatureThroid and Efra, I would suggest getting a physician who understands treating thyroid patients and trying one of the natural thyroid meds and then adding in the Cytomel, and then taking the Cytomel several times a day because T3 has a shorter half life than T4. But it really doesn’t sound like your doctor is providing you with options.
I don’t know how to say this so that everyone (all thyroid patients understand it)…and it is something I feel really strongly about. We do ourselves a disservice by not changing doctors or trying other medications if our symptoms have not been alleviated and we are doing the same thing for months or years. There’s no rule written saying we have to stay with the same doctor if they are not able to help us. Maybe one doctor is good for your friend, sister, neighbor but is not helping you. Certainly there are guidelines we can use ourselves to see if we are being treated adequately.
They are:
Free T3 – upper end of normal
Free T4- at least midrange
TSH- it’s ok and most of us find that we feel better if it is suppressed. That’s ok, look at your Free T3, Free T4 levels and see how you feel
How you feel is important!
Other things to check:
Temperature: before rising, out of bed in the morning, chart and graph your temperature, using an old style thermometer under the arm
Pulse: check 2-3x per day and graph
If your pulse rate and temperature are low, these can also be attributed to being hypothyroid. You can chart these over time and see if you get improvements when/if you change medications to see if something else would help you.
The way you know if your doctor is the right one for you is if she/he has addressed your concerns and you are feeling better than that is the doctor to stay with.
If you as a thyroid patient are continuously feeling badly, then it may be time for you to seek someone else out. There really is no reason for thyroid patients to be under-medicated and/or miserable.
It does not sound like you are doing well on the compounded thyroid medication. This is not unusual and many other thyroid patients who switch from compounded to taking a natural thyroid medication like Naturethyroid or Efra (maybe with some T3, Cytomel if you need it) later find out that they actually feel like themselves again and can function normally.
Who knows maybe your compounded thyroid medication that you are getting has fillers that are binding your thyroid meds so body can’t metabolize them properly? But I sure wouldn’t keep taking them and expect a different outcome, or listen to a doctor who tells me she can’t raise my dose because it’s dangerous…when my levels very obviously scream out for more medication.
Yes, taking too much T3 is dangerous if your Free T3 is already high. Yours according to the levels you are posted is not.
What is dangerous is to stay under-medicated and be hypothyroid for extended periods of time. This can have all kinds of direct and indirect, current and long term health consequences.
Note:this is not to be construed as medical advice. This is a patient/patient forum and for sharing of thyroid information and tips that have helped us and many others with thyroid issues.
After being on Synthroid for 25 years, I changed to T4/100 and T3/25 for the past 6 months. My labs weren’t any better and I don’t feel any better. Here’s the latest:
TSH 0.981 (.450-4.500)
Free T4 .77 (.82-1.77)
Free T3 2.2 (2.0-4.4)
My doctor wants me to be on the same prescription but will split it in half so I’m taking it twice a day.
Question: The doctor says that prescribing more than 25mcg of T3 is dangerous. Why is that?
Hello everyone,
I’ve been reading all of your posts from the beginning because I have been a hypothyroid sufferer as well for the past 11+ years. Forgive me if my post is short, as I’m extremely tired (imagine that) and typing is a real chore at the moment. Briefly, I was on Synthroid for years and felt better for years and then started getting hypo again. Come to find out, my thyroid was “going out” again. So I ended up switching to Armour and started feeling better, which lasted until the dreaded reformulation and know feel as bad as I did 11+ years ago and am heavier than I’ve ever been and so unbelievably tired it’s almost unbearable. Anyway, I’ve been researching a lot lately knowing many others are going through the same and I came across this article on Armour. I don’t know how old it is or even if it’s from a reliable source, but I was curious what other people thought of it. Specifically on how to take it. Here’s a quote from that section and the link to follow. I’d be interested to hear what others think about it. I may try it because I’ve also been having palpitations on the new Armour but have always been told to take it on an empty stomach:
“Armour Thyroid Dosing– TWICE a day.
The most common starting dose for patients with hypothyroidism is Armour thyroid, 90 mg which is cut in half with a razor blade and half is taken after breakfast and the other half after dinner. Taking it after meals also helps to reduce volatility of the blood-level of T3. If the patient has any problem breaking or cutting the pill, they should purchase a pill-cutter at the pharmacy. The TSH, Free T3 and Free T4 are then repeated in one month and the dose is adjusted.
Taking the Armour thyroid twice a day overcomes traditional medicine’s major objection and resistance to using natural thyroid preparations – its variability in its blood-levels. Most doctors using Armour thyroid are not aware that Armour thyroid should be used twice daily and NOT once a day. The major reason is that the T3 component has such a short half life and needs to be taken twice daily to achieve consistent blood levels.”
I’d love to hear everyone’s feedback because I really don’t want to start “medication hopping” if I don’t have to. People’s comments about the old Armour formulation coming back is exciting and I hope it’s true but my last few refills I’m pretty sure is the new stuff. I’m going to see a new endo next month and hope he helps. My last TSH result was like 3.87 and according to the OB/GYN who ran a naturopathic clinic on the side, my TSH should be under 2.0 (I just couldn’t afford her anymore and she was always pushing unbelievably expensive tests/products/weight loss programs and only spending 5 mins with me after always waiting at least an hour to see her and spending hundreds of dollars out of pocket. Too bad because she really seems to know her stuff! So many people are just too greedy these days!!!)
NATURETHROID ON BACKORDER AGAIN???? Hi group – I posted here a while ago when I was just starting out unravelling the thyroid puzzle. I started on 30mg of Armour, felt nothing. I switched to 1/2 grain of NatureThroid – not much – I upped it myself to 1grain – and started feeling better – oddly, what I noticed first was “regularity” every day… then my husband was happy cause I actually felt like doing :”that”… yay.. now here comes the bummer – just went for my refill on 1grain – and THEY ARE OUT! Its on BACKORDER -Please for the love of regularity and good s-e-x please tell me where to get a refill! Seriously though, I am really frustrated with this. Has anybody else tried to get a refill recently and told it was again on backorder with no update??
Hello! Was wondering if anyone could give me some advice? I’m 29 years old, hypothyroid and have been on and off synthroid since I was about 15. Sept of 2009 I had a needle aspiration to a 2.9 x 2.2 x 2.1 cm nodule which came back benign. There is also a 1.1 x 1.1 x 1.1 cm nodule which was not tested. Had another ultrasound this Nov. 2010 which showed that the dominant nodule had grown nearly 50% so now I need to decide between a partial or total thyroidectomy. I have hashimotos, my thyroid is enlarged and I feel terrible! Feel worse since I’ve been on synthroid even though my tests are “normal”.
TSH 2.08 (.3 – 4.7)
Free T4 1.09 (.75 – 2.0)
Free T3… didn’t know to ask for it
Looking for a new surgeon since the one I recently saw told me she wanted to do a partial thyroidectomy with a new robotic procedure she has not yet done on a live person! I feel that due to my Hashimotos it will be easier to regulate my levels if I have a total thyroidectomy. Any thoughts? Either way, I really want to switch to Naturethroid when all is said and done after reading all the comments. I have a very hard time controlling my weight and am very nervous about what a TT might do to me. Thanks for all the info… this site has really helped me!!!
Re: Swelling with the New Armour Thyroid Medicine
Kim, I was on the new Armour for a while also. Could not use it. My face got so puffy it was embarrassing. All my hard work that I put into exercising and losing weight came crashing down. Naturethroid can require some adjustments and for me I had to increase my dose to get myself feeling better. I don’t know if that’s because of the temperature change —it is cold now where I am and Bethanie says we may need to increase in the winter time., or if it’s just because my body was so messed up from the Armour. I think anything’s worth trying if you are having bad experiences with the new Armour. From what I’ve learned I just don’t think the Armour works very well for anyone anymore.
Has anyone else experienced facial and abdominal swelling on the new Armour? I’ve been on 60 mg of Armour since last spring. Didn’t have swelling with the old Armour that I was on for 10 years. Do you think Naturethroid may help?
Thank you, Bethanie, for taking the time to respond to my concerns so thoroughly. I am going to take your advice and do some research about finding another doctor. And I particularly appreciate your sharing the levels that you aim for in terms of your own health. That helps alot!
Thanks again so much!
Re: TSH Low and Don’t Feel Any Better
Hi Cynthia, first of all, let me say I wish there were great answers to your questions. And you are right on the money about wondering why it is so difficult to get adequate treatment. I have my own thoughts about this, and will share some of them but if I can pass along only one message to you this morning…it is ….. Please Don’t Give up! Most of us have had to go through a lot to find a medical provider who can treat thyroid problems adequately. There are also those physicians, who some thyroid patients would call ‘TSH worshippers’ meaning that the ONLY thing they are looking at are the TSH numbers. This is not good thyroid care in any situation, but for those of us with Hashimotos, it can cause us to feel horrible, because for many of us with the TPO Antibodies, we may need to have our TSH completely supressed, (meaning much much lower than normal) in order to keep the antibodies at bay. The TSH is only one small part of it, when looking at labs, and probably in my opinion, the least important part. More importantly, is the FREE T3 and Free T4 levels, and your symptoms and how you feel. Now, some doctors will say you’re “fine” because your TSH is within range, but again, there’s not just one number you need to look at when dealing with thyroid problems and your symptoms along with the Free T3, Free T4, are very important.
There’s a book I’ve mentioned before that may be beneficial for you to read. http://www.hospitalsoup.com/thyroidbook
If you don’t want your own copy perhaps you could see if the library could order it for you. The good/bad news about all this is that if you can find the strength to say “I don’t feel well” and I’m not going to settle until I find someone who can treat me and get my Free T3 at the top of the range (where it is necessary for most of us to feel our best) and who won’t worship the TSH—then you can and should be able to feel so much better. Dr. Richard Shames explains what he calls the “Tyranny of the TSH Test” and so it also provides patients with documentation from a medical doctor about these issues. The reason Dr. Shames wrote the book is because his wife was also a thyroid patient and ran into some of the same difficulties that you, I and so many of us here describe.
The reason so many doctors go by the TSH test only is because unfortunately that’s all they know to do. They haven’t read/or researched further and they simply go by perhaps the only thing that was taught to them in their medical education which was to look at the TSH. Then they don’t study further and find out that the TSH is only a small part of the picture.
In terms of getting comfortable with knowing what the goal is for our treatment, here is what I aim for with my own care:
Free T3, upper end (high) normal range
Free T4 – at least midrange, I don’t mind if it’s higher, but at leat midrange
TSH – In my case, because I also have Hashimotos, my TSH can sometimes get even below the normal range. This doesn’t bother me at all. I also monitor my temps, blood pressure and heart rate, and as long as everything else is stable, then I know I am where I need to be in terms of my thyroid medication. Some doctors will say you’ll ruin your bone density if your TSH is too low, or that you can have other problems. My bone density actually increased when I got on the proper level of thyroid medications, and cholesterol and other lab values also tend to either improve greatly, or problems with cholesterol can even disappear once you are on the proper dose of thyroid medication.
I think there’s just not a large body of doctors out there who are willing to look at the entire picture when it comes to thyroid problems. We’re not the most profitable group of patients for them…we require all kinds of “tweaking” when it comes to our dose and unlike some things like a cholesterol medication where you just pop a pill and supposedly treat something, you have to look at the whole picture when treating thyroid problems.
And yes, it is very hard to find a good doctor. Some of them who do treat more holistically will charge tons of money. I know some people who have spent $500.00 a visit. I don’t think this is necessary if you are willing to look at finding a thyroid doctor as if you were looking for a job—meaning that you are willing to put in the time and effort into finding the right doc for you.
Here’s what I do to find a new doctor
1. Find a compounding pharmacy in my area (you can look in the phone book or Google Compunding pharmacies and then do a search for your area)
2. Call the compounding pharmacy and ask to speak to one of the pharmacists.
3. Ask the pharmacist who in your area is prescribing the following things:
a. NatureThroid and/or compounded thyroid
b. Methylcobalamin (this is the injectable form of B12 and even if you don’t need that, asking that question will get you the doctors who are prescribing it which is a good thing in most cases because it means they areknowledgeable about B12 and most thyroid patients may also have B12 issues and even if you don’t, working with a doctor who has that knowledge is normally better than working with someone who does not.
c. Once you find a list of those doctor’s see if you can pull up their websites and/or do research on them online. If they have a website it’s pretty easy to determine if they take regular insurance or if they’re one of the very expensive types ie: $500.00 an hour etc…
d. I pass on the $500.00 an hour types and keep searching until I find someone who prescribes natural dessicated thyroid ( in my case I prefer the NatureThroid over the compounded) and once I find them I call their office and ask some other questions.
e: Like: Does the doctor only go by TSH to dose thyroid medication or do they use other testing and also take into account the patient’s symptoms and how they feel?
f. How much experience do they have with treating thyroid patients?
g. Are they accepting new patients?
h. How long does it take to ge an initial appointment… (Add your own questions to the list and ask these BEFORE you schedule an appointment.
Your doctor is wrong when they say that because your TSH is low that’s as good as it gets.
My preference is also to get on a regular dessicated thyroid medication like either NatureThroid or Efra from Canada instead of using compounded. You can adjust your dose much easier with the regular tablets, and it is less expensive. Furthermore, there seem to be more patients that I hear from who are having problems with compounded thyroid than those that are on other types of natural dessicated thyroid medications.
I guess I am about to give up. I am so upset and frustrated – thought I had found a doctor that would be good for me but now I realize that I haven’t. Are there just two sets of people – those who feel energetic and have great memories and then there are the rest of us who feel tired all the time and can’t remember what we did yesterday? I won’t bore you with all the whining. Here’s my question – and maybe there is a good answer that I haven’t discovered yet. Why can’t I find a doctor who will let me get my T4 and T3 to at least the mid-normal range to see if it will make a difference for me?? What is the real danger of TSH “bottoming out”? Are all the people who feel great, look great and can concentrate – are these people at the highest of the “normal range”? If that’s where they are – why can’t I be there too???
After being on Synthroid for 25 years, I changed to T4/100 and T3/25 for the past 6 months. My labs weren’t any better and I don’t feel any better. Here’s the latest:
TSH 0.981 (.450-4.500)
Free T4 .77 (.82-1.77)
Free T3 2.2 (2.0-4.4)
And my doctor says that’s as good as it can get because my TSH is so low? Plus, my TPO is high too so I guess my body is fighting the meds. If this is correct, then I give up – I’ll stop looking for a solution. But if any of you out there can tell me differently, I’ll keep looking.
Thank you.
Thanks, Bethanie. This is the same doctor and she says she knows she needs to change my meds based on my last labs – but wants me to go back and check RT3 before she changes it. My last labs were:
TSH 0.981 (.450-4.500)
Free T4 .77 (.82-1.77)
Free T3 2.2 (2.0-4.4)
My current dosage is T4 100/T3 25. I still want to increase T3 to see if it will help my concentration and memory – even though it is in the “normal” range – but it’s at the very bottom. And it looks like my T4 dosage may be too low too.
I appreciate all your support!
Re: Why Thyroid Patients Sometimes Need to Test Reverse T3
Reverse T3 can be tested if you are not feeling great and your Free T3, Free T4 levels are looking good but there is something that is unexplained that is causing you not to feel well. If you have high levels of Reverse T3 what can happen is that your other labs will look “good” but you still feel poorly. This is because high Reverse T3 levels actually block your cells from being able to use the thyroid hormone that you are taking or that your body makes. Thus, everything looks good on paper so to speak, but in actuality you are still hypothyroid.
Cynthia good to hear from you. Is this the same doctor you were seeing before or a new one. It is actually good that they want to test for Reverse T3 and some docs will just go ahead and premptively test for that just to make sure that it is not an issue for you even if you are feeling ok. Because it’s so hard to get some doctors to even do the Free T3, Free T4 and the antibody testing, it is difficult to suggest that they add on the Reverse T3 at the beginning of this process. But if they will do that without being prompted, that is very good info to have and a good thing that they want to test it.
How are you feeling? Any changes at all? And if this is a new doctor what other things has he/she changed?
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving and again…very nice to hear back from you:-)
Does any one know why my doctor would want me to get labs for Reverse T3? I just tested for TSH, FreeT4 and Free T3. Just curious…
I am on the Nature-Throid for about 6 month. I noticed that my hair is not falling as much as before I was diagnosed, but it is still thinning. I used to be so proud of my crown and now, can see my scalp. I am wondering. Will the hair grow back? Will it keep falling and thinning? I am so sad that this is happening and I have no control about it.
I also like to give hope to those who are just diagnosed. It is not easy, you might feel depressed, sad, frustrated, but believe me, once you get the right medication and the right dose, you will feel better.
Now to the right dose. I started Nature-Throid only with half a grain. I felt ok, but not great, my hair was dry, my skin very dry. I went take blood test and result was 2.4. It was normal, however, normal for me is around 1.9. I know, because before I was on the original Armour and I felt great when I was 1.9. So I talk to the doctor and we decide to increase my dose. I am taking one grain now, and feel fine. My hair is not dry, but it is still thining, however the shower drain wasn’t clogged once since then.
What I am trying to say is that even though, your test show normal, it must be not necessary normal for you, if you still have the symptoms and feel sick. Every body is different. If one doctor is not helping you, find another. Ask friends, do research, call the office and ask questions.
I have perfect doctor. They work with me. I do a lot of research, print some interesting articles and bring it with me to the office. They give me what I want and how much I want (if they of course think it is safe). My doctor knew there is a shortage of Nature-Throid so he ordered some for his office. Now I just buy it there when I go see him.
I wish everyone good luck with this.
Back in the mid 90′s I had to go to 3 different specialists after researching on my own the Broda Barnes method of “temp testing” to determine the need for thyroid supplementation. I was started on 1 gr. of Armour; of course back then, the OLD Armour. I lost 25 lbs in the first few months w/o trying- I had built to 2 grains then a dr. somewhere down the road freaked & I stayed at 1 gr. FOREVER……….. here’s the latest dilemma- My pharmacy ran out of Armour in Dec. ’09- I didn’t know there were other options cuz I never had to research so just got on Synthroid- my doc at the time did the conversion to 0.05 mcg the equivalent of 1/2grain. I stayed on this while starting a candida cleanse/adrenal healing diet which has enabled me to lose 23 lbs. but due to the diet change which is gluten free & sugar free for nearly 3 months now!!!! Here’s the problem- my doc retired quite suddenly which led me to have to “test” out two other clinic docs. The first-the type who would “NEVER prescribe PIG thyroid” etc.. all of the arguments against natural thyroid & she sung the praises of synthetic, saying it was man-made & the CLOSEST thing to what our own bodies make!!!!!!! UGH!!!!! While researching articles to show her MY argument, I learned that Armour had been reformulated- not even our small-town pharmacist or Dr.s knew as I’ve heard was quite the norm…….. So, I had been back on “armour” or what I thought was armour from April 2010 till this new doc put me on Synthroid- 0.1 mg. (the equivalent of 1 gr. of natural) well, I decided to try the “next” dr. in the clinic who I thought would be open-minded- he had the same mindset as she but was more “flexible”- I was NOT WELL on the increased dose of synthroid, I was anxious, hyper, having hallucinations, weird stuff so I asked him if he could put me back on what I was on the equivalent of 1/2 grain or the 0.05 my doc had put me on when they ran out of Armour or natural. I KNEW then that the synthetic was going to be a problem but we were working out other health issues, the new doc trials since my doc of 20 yrs. had just left. So, with all of the diet changes & the addition of quality supplements I knew that the only thing left was still to work on the thyroid so I tested him out to see if he would prescribe “natural thyroid” again for me to try.. I had my appt. on the 1st of Nov. I just wanted to see if he was going to work with me or if I should still be looking for a new doc & I said I was still trying to figure out which one I wanted to try- he wrote me a script for “natural thyroid” & said I could just get which one I wanted but that we would have to do tests to monitor…….. the last test (the first one under him back on July 26th) had the following- I requested the frees for this testing-
TSH 1.30 (0.35-5.50)
T3, Free 2.55 (2.30-4.20)
T4 Free 0.89 (0.80-1.76)
I still was having hypo symptoms & when he wrote the script in the beginning of Nov. for Natural Thyroid- I had just ordered my copy of Stop the Thyroid Madness. I asked my pharmacist if he could get Nature Throid 1 gr. he couldn’t but our Apothecary Pharmacy could. I received the book with the added bookmark which said that NT had been reformulated too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARGH………….. I’ve been crushing it as Janie suggested & I didn’t want to stay at the loading dose past two weeks so am now on 1.5 grains & I feel like absolute DOOKEY!!!!!!!! (that’s now feeling good at all!!! I’m SO frustrated, I was doing SO WELL on my diet changes but knew the entire picture would not be optimal had I not addressed the thyroid as well. I’m starting to think I should have just “settled” on the synthroid cuz I feel worse now than I did before. BUT I know from the past of beginning on Armour in the 90′s that it worked for me. I’ve had fibromyalgia & complications to where I’ve been able to wean off of pain meds etc. so the gluten-free, sugar free, supplements etc. are/were doing wonders. The problem I first noticed & didn’t like is that with the Nature-throid- when I went to go to one & 1/2 I couldn’t even BREAK IT IN HALF w/o a pill crusher. My husband could do one, barely & no more. I’ve had MAJOR G.I. upset, constipation that I didn’t have before with all of my diet changes- all of this since starting on the NT- it doesn’t dissolve at all, is not soft enough to even break- my pain is creeping back up, I’m irritable & the WORST part………….. when I go see this doc again He’s going to think he was right in prescribing the synthetic stuff & I’ll be back to where I was!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh get this- when I left the appointment & read the lab sheet for him wanting to “test” while I started this new Natural Thyroid……………. all he had written was for a TSH………. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry this is so long & winded, but I’m so brain-fogged, I can’t get the toxins out as I was before started the hard-shell, non dissolving NT- I eat REALLY well, had gotten to where I was “going” easily with the additional fiber I drink 2-3 times a day & it’s worse than ever……………
Thanks in advance to anyone-
My thyroid tests have always come back ‘fine’ according to my nurse practitioner. I wonder if I too could have had undiagnosed thyroid disease for many years? I’m always cold, tired, and feeling fat, even though I exercise regularly and eat very well. I’m not overweight per se, but I just always have this bloated, fat feeling. And almost no eyebrows! Thank you for putting this out in the open. I really must see about getting other tests I think to find out if this is something that is affecting me.
Re: Doctors and How to Find for Rosemary
Hi Rosemary, finally, I’m able to post the rest of my message. We had some Internet Outages at my house this weekend so I had the whole message written out, then poof–away it went and couldn’t be posted. I didn’t take my own suggestion and copy it first before submitting, and so had to rewrite it and wait until they got my service back up and going again.
Ok, I have an even larger list that I will have one of the volunteers who has offered to help with the doctor list send to you via email, but here’s something to get you started.
Here’s a doctor who comes highly recommended by quite a few patients: (He’s in Chicago, but perhaps someone to consider if once you research him further he may be a good choice for you.)
http://www.docintheloop.com/
Alan Bain, Osteopath/DO, Alan F. Bain, D.O., Osteopath/DO
I visited his website and what I did like about this docor is that it appears (I have not called to confirm) but it appears that he takes regular insurance. Sometimes there are more holistically oriented docs who are quite good, but they are so expensive that it puts them out of the reach of us everyday people:-) So it looked as if he took insurance and if you’re interested in him, then you could call and find out more about him.
Questions I always ask BEFORE I book an appointment:
1. Does the physician prescribe natural thyroid medications including NatureThroid if medically appropriate? Make sure you add that little statement about medically appropriate at the end because otherwise sometimes the offices think you are trying to get them to make a blanket statement about prescribing, so I always add that in.
2. I always want to know if they are familiar with prescribing injectable B12 just so that I know in advance if this is a physician who understands the importance of B12. And if they are familiar with prescribing the compounded version of B12 that is the best type for most people which is methylcobalamin B12 injectable, that is even better (in my opinion) just because it shows some holistic knowledge that would require them to have read or researched more about B12 then what they would initially have learned or known about from their initial education.
3. Another doc who may be closer to you and who also has lots of good reviews is Dr. Burton Waisbren, Thyroid & Autoimmune Diseases, 2315 N. Lake Dr., Suite 815, Milwaukee, WI 53211, (414) 272-1929,
One of the nurses who writes articles here and who helps me out with answer to my questions here on this website actually tried to get in touch with Dr. Waisbren’s office for you to get a few questions answered. I don’t know if they were able to connect but I asked her to update me tomorrow when she comes in so if I have any more news on that I’ll let you know.
4. The other thing I wanted to share is that when I am looking for a new doctor one way to find one is to contact any of the compounding pharmacies either in your area or in a larger city ie: like Chicago. Then ask to speak to one of the pharmacists and ask those pharmacists who prescribes NatureThroid and/or and/or the compounded methylcobalamin which is the injectible B12.
Any compounding pharmacy can answer about the thyroid medication, but for the injectible B12 question you need to find a compounding pharmacy to ask who does sterile compounding. If you call one and they do not, ask them which compounding pharmacies in your area do sterile compounding and they will tell you, then ask the B12 question about docs who prescribe that, even if you decide not to use injections, it will give you the names of those docs who like I mentioned are at least knowledeable about it and that is a good sign.
Finally the other name that came up so far who does work with compounded medications is supposedly Dr. Cathy Dunnell.
cathy dunnell,
http://drcathiedunal.com/blog/contact/
847-205-2055
Again, one of the nurses attempted to email her for some questions but so far no response back. From her website it looks as if she may be knowledgeable but one can never tell unless you ask more specific questions. Also, what I did not like is that it looks as if she does not take regular insurance, and since she doesn’t post prices on her website I don’t know what her visit costs would be. If you can obviously find someone who does take insurance and who has the info you need, that would be ideal.
Hope this helps, I’ll have the other more extensive list emailed to you tonight.
Hi Bethanie:
I ran to my computer this morning (and I must admit, around 10 times yesterday) looking for your reply and list of doctors in my area. You poor thing, you must be so busy and yet you take your time too help us as well. Sending lots of {{{hugs}}} your way.
I’m on my way to church and will pray again I can get in the hands of a wonderful Doctor. What I am looking for, and what I think would be the best way to go, will be a Naturopath who is also an MD. I am planning on calling first thing Monday morning, so hopefully I can get in soon enough to stop all my hair from falling out and can ask Santa for some new hair growth.
Besides Bethanie, if anyone else on this site has a great MD here in Wisconsin, PLEASE post their name.
I’m looking forward to your reply!
RE: Iron Supplements and When to Take
Hi Rose, With the iron you should take the iron with your powdered Vitamin C. This will help you absorb it better. Take with a glass of water 30 minutes before a meal and make sure you’re not taking it with milk or antacids. No other supplements at least 2 hours after taking an iron supplement.
The B Right should definitely be taken with food and earlier in the day so as to not interfere with sleep. Take the sublingual B12 at the time of the day when you are in need of some energy or when you need your mind to be most alert. Since you are taking this sublingually and letting it dissolve just slowly you can take it right after a meal. Most people who are taking 2 sublingual B12 tabs take one mid morning and one after lunch. You may want to just start with one mid morning to see how you do, regarding sleep. And maybe then add in a 2nd one once you get your sleep patterns better handled.
A few more thoughts about sleep:
1. Are you able to exercise at all during the day (not late evening hours because this can rev you up more and cause you to have trouble falling asleep?) But getting a really good cardiovascular workout does wonders for sleep.
2. What foods are you eating around bedtime? Watch any intake of sugars, these can rev up your system and make it difficult to sleep. Foods with an amino acid called tryptophan can also help. Turkey has this in it. There are a few supplements that can be useful and taking a combo of calcium/magnesium at night can also help. The magnesium should be magnesium glycinate or magnesium gluconate, don’t use any magnesium that is called magnesium oxide as it is hard on the digestive system. Also, in the event that the iron makes you constipated, sometimes people will get constipated from iron, then you can add in some additional magnesium glycinate or magnesium gluconate (anywhere from 200-600mg) per day until your stools are the right consistency to also help with constipation and magnesium can help with lots of other functions in the body and is another thing most Americans are deficient in. The way to dose magnesium is to start at the lower end and then gradually go up until you get a looser stool, then back up a bit until the stool is ok and you know you have the right dose.
Supplements that can help sleep
Calcium/Magnesium – good to take anyway
5-HTP
Melatonin
Hopefully your new doctor can help you with this, but in the interim another great resource is to find a good reputable compounding pharmacy in your area. And then use them as a resource. Some of the pharmacists I have met over the years are much more knowledgeable than docs and many offer phone consults or have knowledgeable staff whom you can ask questions of to help put some of the pieces together.
Now, again, the key is to proceed slowly. Maybe try a few things first, see how you do. Keep a journal, write down what you are taking, how much and what the result/s are with each new option and change that you implement so you can track what’s working and what’s not.
Few more things that influence sleep:
Caffeine intake
Exercise – either too much too late in the evening or too little exercise can be problematic
Routine: not having TV in bedroom, not doing stimulating activities too close to bedtime
Getting on a regular sleeping schedule can help
Humidity: making sure the air in your bedroom is not too dry
Other things that can help: taking a warm bath before bed with drops of essential oil like lavendar which can help you relax
Food: no sugary or salty foods close to bedtime
On the sublingual with the folic acid, Your Jarrow B right has folic acid in it and this with the sublingual Jarrows are so far the best thing I have heard of as of yet with regards to the B supplements. I’m hoping still that once you find another doctor that he would be open to at least giving you a few B12 injections to get your levels up more quickly. But in the interim, the Jarrows are going to be something you can do now:-)
I’m going to post in a few minutes what I’ve found so far in terms of doctors in a separate post so this one doesn’t get too long:-)
Hi Bethany:
A few more questions:
1. I bought the Jarrows B12, Jarrows B-Right and powdered C (this I will take when I take my iron) I ordered it today.) I am at loss though WHEN to take the above supplements??? Do I have to be careful not to take one with another?
2. I desperately need something for sleep! Last night I went to bed a 2:00 and still could not sleep. I tossed and turned for hours. I finally fell asleep around 4:30 but woke up at 7:00. Any advise there would be so greatly appreciated.
3. Looking for to your list of a good Doctor here in Wisconsin. Maybe then I can get on some Naturthroid which will hopefully get my hair back and allow my body to get some sleep.
4. I saw a good supplement for a sublingual B12 which also had some Folic Acid which I read somewhere is best with B-12. It’s made by DAVINCILABS. Your thoughts?
5. When my Iron arrives, when is the best time to take it? I am going to take it along with the Vitamin C powder I ordered. I don’t drink orange juice. It doesn’t agree with me. I am also a follower of D’Dadamo and It Right for Blood Type and orange is an avoid. I can honestly tell you following his protocol is fabulous! You will feel so good.
Again. . . thank you, thank you, thank you! I am have to be thankful for Thanksgiving. This site and you! And my scalp thanks you too!
Bethany:
Where do I even begin to thank you for your time and compassion in helping me. I’ve received more from you in the last few days than I have received in 8 yrs of idiot doctors — not to mention friends; really.
During the past few years I remember telling my hair dresser that I’m really concerned because my hair is falling out in droves and she would say “you’re fine.” It would be so frustrating. Then as years went on and I try to express my concerns with friends and doctors they would act like I was being consumed or even superficial always concerned about my hair loss. No one would listen! Of course now my hair dresser and friends say they feel so sorry for me because the loss is quite evident.
I have literally spent thousands of $$$ in doctor’s bills and snake oils trying to stop my hair loss. And having gone thru a divorce and job losses, I really couldn’t afford it, but we get so desperate as a women trying to stop us from looking like those ‘smilies’ faces. It’s devastating.
This is the first time I feel that someone understands and cares. What you have given me is priceless! Today for the first time in 8 years I feel like there is hope. You actually brought tears to my eyes; honestly.
I was dating a great guy for 3 years after my divorce and I ended the relationship because of my hair loss. I felt deep inside like he deserved better and I shouldn’t burden, not to mention embarrass him with a balding woman. Everyone would say, “but if he loves you, he won’t care.” But what they don’t understand is, it’s more than that. It’s about the way “I’ feel inside and especially when you’re dating, and it’s not your husband, it’s different.
Thank you so much! I am going to order those supplements as soon as I hit ‘submit.’ I am going to pray I get my hair back. I feel VERY optimistic thanks to you!
God Bless
Re: Iron Supplements and B12
Hi Rosemary,
Here is the info you requested.
For iron
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron
For the B Vitamins, the only brand I really have heard that works well is Jarrow Brands.
Here are the links
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/bright (This is a really good B complex) and most will take it every day
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/b12sublingual (plus this one also taken 2x a day sublingually) for the B12
Here’s a discount code where you can get $5.00 off your first order if you use Iherb which usually has the best prices.
$5.00 Discount Code put in: DEL966 in the coupon code/discount code area to get a 5.00 savings
Vitamin D I like a good high quality LIQUID type is the best. Capsules are 2nd best, then tablets. Dose depends upon how low you really are, although Dr. Oz has said that most of us are going to need 1000 – 2000 iu a day especially in the winter, but to be really sure it is really best to have a Vitamin D test to see where you are.
I was going to post just doctors in Wisconsin for you, but since you gave me more specific zipcode info, I’m going to see if we have any listed more towards your specific area that other patients have used. Because it sounds like you may really want to get a more holistic doctor to help you with some of these things if yours has ignored your symptoms and everything for 8 long years. It’s so hard to hear these things from everyone. I can relate for sure. I think docs are so apt to prescribe all the things that they are used to prescribing like anti-depressants, antibiotics, etc that can be so harmful, yet won’t educate themselves on things like B12 which can have huge positive effects… I won’t get started on that right now.
Anyway, to answer your question about supplements instead of prescription thyroid medication. I’m just not a fan of this. To support the thyroid some people do find that things like kelp or selenium can help. But kelp can be dangerous if one has any tendencies towards thyroid auto immune conditions and although in your case, your antibodies are not ‘clearly positive’ you still have some — so I would be very careful with kelp because I’ve seen some cases where if antibodies are an issue this just adds fuel to the fire. Selenium can be a good supplement to add even if one has antibodies, but I also don’t like to add a bunch of things at once would rather folks get started on a few key things and work up from there.
I’ll see if I can find any docs close to your area. I’ll have time to work on that today. My work schedule has been so busy that I’m so glad to have a day off. I have to get some food shopping done etc in between, but I’ll be back to update you on what I found for docs around your area.
Bethany:
I think you were also going to check for a good Dr. in my area. I live in Kenosha, Wisconsin 53142 (also near the Illinois border)
So either Wisconsin or Illinois would work fine.
Thank you kindly.
Yes, PLEASE send me the name of the iron supplement you recommend. As well as the B12.
I saw a sub-lingual B12 w/Folic Acid on line by DaVinici Laboratories. http://www.thewayup.com/products/0018.cfm What are your thoughts?
I don’t think I will be able to get a Dr. to prescribe B12 injections, guaranteed. As a matter of fact I know I can’t. I can’t even get them to admit my iron is low and thyroid is out of whack. I might be able to find someone to prescribe NatureThroid. Isn’t it sad — I can get Dr’s to prescribe dangerous antibiotics and other drugs, but anything that is good for us, no can do. It’s insane!
I am going to play it safe and also take a Vitamin D supplement.
I was also wondering if I am unable to get the NatureThroid what your thoughts were on some sort of other Thyroid Support Supplement, i.e., http://www.inno-vita.com/thyroiden_index.htm or
http://www.davincilabs.com/vitamins_supplements/thyroid-basics.php
Also, any suggestions for a Digestive Enzyme to make certain I am getting the supplements into my system.
Again, sending a big {{{hug}}} and thanks. I am so grateful someone is finally listening and caring.
I look so forward to your reply.
Re: Labwork Comments for Rosemarie
Hi Rosemary,
Alright, the good news is that your doctor has done some good testing for you. The bad news is that apparently no one is acting on some of the things that may really help you in dealing with some of your issues. (Again, this is not medical advice, just sharing my thoughts as a fellow patient). I’ll post separately with the doctor info that we have, along with some tips for interviewing new doctors etc. And possibly, if you are armed with this info, maybe you can get your current doctor to go along with the info I will share with you.
1. With a doctor’s medical ok I would think you are a great candidate for iron supplementation. Your ferritin should be at least 50 and some do better from 60-75, but yours is definitely way too low. Your iron levels are showing up as normal and the high transferrin saturation can occur with certain types of anemia which with your very low ferritin you are well on your way to becoming anemic if someone does not address this for you.
Let me know if you want the name of the supplement I take (for iron). It is very important NOT to take just any iron supplement as most of them will upset your stomach. And I would not recommend getting a prescription from your doctor either. The brand I use which I order online is very, very well tolerated. I’ve recommended it to lots of friends, family, and people online and so far, no one has come back to say that they couldn’t tolerate it. So brands are important with the iron.
2. Your B12 level is very very low. In the United States are ranges are too low anyway. In Japan, their ranges are 1.5 times higher than ours. So with a B12 of 298 this is something that definitely needs addressed. B12 injections are much better at getting your blood levels up more quickly and getting you the B12 that your body will absorb. And yes, this should not be rocket science…another reason for hair loss is with B12 deficiency which at a level of 298 in my opinion, you definitely have. If you want more info about the types of B12 send a quick note. I’ll be able to get back to you quicker because I have tomorrow off, and so I can outline some of the different kinds of B12 for you because there are different types of medication that can be prescribed as an injection. You could try sublingual. I only like one brand of sublingual and even at that, it is just not as effective as the B12 injections. So let me know what additional info I can give you and we’ll go from there.
3. As I mentioned before, I think you are a good candidate to also try a trial of natural thyroid medication which I would ask your doctor for on your next visit. In my opinion, the natural dessicated thyroid meds work much better. Except the New Armour Thyroid. Too many people having problems with that. I like either NatureThroid which you should be able to find locally or the Canadian Thyroid called Efra.
If you can’t find NatureThroid locally you can also order it directly from a pharmacy in AZ which is right close to the manufacturer so they have always had it in stock in my opinion, and are very reputable and have fast shipping.
Re: The shedding. I think there is good reason to be optimistic that some of these issues could be helped Rosemarie. It’s always hard to know if something will work completely, but your thyroid according to your labs and symptoms would warrant treatment, and that alone can cause massive hair loss. Add in the low B12 and you have some things you can do to help this.
I can’t remember if on your earlier labs you had Vitamin D tested, so I’ll go back and look at that.
The Titer ANA can be elevated because your poor body is trying to ‘keep up’ with not enough iron, not enough B12 which is important for the immune system and a thyroid that’s working as hard as it can, but isn’t getting any help from medicine which it just may need.
Note: It’s best to get your ferritin up first before actually starting on the thyroid medication. But I would definitely ask either this doctor or a new doctor for a prescription of natural thyroid medication. Don’t let them sway you to get a compounded thyroid medication. That’s more expensive and is not necessary IMO and if you can find one of the others that works better, this is a better way to go.
Oh, and it took me about a year to see my hair come back to it’s thick natural state. My hairdresser even complains now how fast it grows. There are some other nutrients, like fish oil, and evening primrose oil and some other things you can do for hair. But for you, I would absolutely correct some of those other things first and then add additional supplements as you move forward.
Bethany: Thank you for your input. Below is the requested information:
CBC
Thryoglobulin Antibody – 4.6 (range 0.0 – 14.4)
ThyroidPeroxidase Ab <0.3 (range 0.0 – 3.9)
RBC 4.54 (range 4.20 – 5.40)
RDW 10.9 (range 10.5 – 13.5)
HGB 14.2 (range 12.0 – 16.0)
HCT 41.8 (range 36.0 – 48.0)
MCV 92.0 (range 80.0 – 100.0)
MCH 31.4 (range 28.0 – 33.0)
MCHC 34.1 (range 31.0 – 36.0)
Transferrin BL 371 (range 188-341) bit high
B12 298 (range 200 – 1100)
Iron Level 110 (range 49 – 151) in 2009
Iron Level 61 (range 35 -155) range in 2005
Ferritin – always low. Last tested was 12
ANA Titer 1:40 (range 0 – 40) slight elevation
Shedding: I'm glad you mentioned your "hair loss" and thinking you would need a wig. I went "wig shopping" last week and left crying. My hair loss is so bad and in looking in the mirror was more than I could bear. Not to mention the wigs made me look like a hooker because I normally have thin, fine hair and all the wigs have sooooooooooooo much hair making me look ridiculous.
Your comment about the wig made me feel better and that maybe there is hope. Did you grow back your hair? If so, how did you do it? I was in the store today and made the mistake of walking past a mirror when looking at a beautiful sweater, and . . . I just got so depressed I went home.
I just want to someone to help me. And contrary to what the idiot Dr's say, this hair loss is NOT normal!
My words cannot express how much I appreciate your help.
Re: Hair Falling out But Doctor’s Say My Thyroid is Fine!
Rosemary From looking at your labs and your symptoms it seems like there are definitely things that are not fine.
1. Low Ferritin (which is your storage iron) is notorious for causing hair loss. (Even though technically you’re within normal range do you see what a LARGE range there is for Ferritin?) There have been numerous studies linking all kinds of issues with low ferritin, including a decline in athletic performance in athletes along with hair loss especially in women. Not to mention that if your ferritin is that low, your thyroid hormones aren’t able to function efficiently or effectively. Your body needs the iron to bind with the thyroid hormone–and if you’re too low in the storage iron it can’t do that. You would not want to supplement iron though without checking your serum iron level and also taking a look at the RBC values that I mention later in this note. If you post them I or someone else here will be happy to give you some feedback on them.
2. Your T3 is too low, you should be a the top of the range, Your T4 is ok, you want this at least midrange, but it’s the T3 that’s more of an issue in your case.
The TSH at 4.31 is too high, anything above 2.50 makes you a candidate for subclinical hypothyroidism and an informed doctor would also notice your thinning eyebrows, loss of hair, cold hands/cold feet etc…and be very suspicious of subclinical hypothyroidism and a candidate for getting on a trial of thyroid medication.
3. Do you have your latest CBC which would show things like your RBC, RDW, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit, and your MCV and MCH and MCHC (even if these are within normal limits) they can often times show ‘clues’ to what’s happening with regards to your iron status in the body.
4. Did you have anyone do a regular iron panel which also showed what your serum iron level is (And you can still have issues in fact most of us will have within normal serum iron but very low normal ferritin levels which can cause alot of problems. But you want to see where you where with your serum iron)
5. Has your Vitamin D been tested?
6. And yes, low Vitamin B12 can cause the eye twitching and is fairly common with thyroid issues.
In terms of not being able to sleep this could be adrenal issues, thyroid and/or a combo of the two. If you let me know if you’ve had the thyroid antibody testing done, that will be a first step, then I can suggest some other things you can ask your new doctor to have done.
If you have not ever had your antibodies checked you should absolutely ask that these antibody tests be run:
1. Thyroid Perioxidase Antibodies (TPO) Antibodies
2. Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TG) Antibodies
This could also give some clues as to why there may have been such broad fluctuations of your TSH over the years. It’s important to test and often times missed.
I’ll look up for you to see which docs we have on our list for Wisconsin, but it will still benefit you to be prepared and to make your own lists of tests you want to have run even before you get to the next doctor IMO. Then you don’t run the risk of wasting even more time not having complete answers.
Glad you found our discussion group..and I know about the agony associated with losing hair. I was shedding so badly at one point I thought I would need a wig. That’s been resolved since I fixed my thyroid issue.
None of this should be construed as medical advice and one should always consult with their physician for any medical issues. This is a patient/patient support group only.
My kingdom for some hair! I’m 55 yrs young and have been losing hair since the onset of menopause 8 yrs ago. To date, I’ve lost over 60% of my hair; the shedding has NOT stopped and now my scalp showing through.
All the Doc’s I’ve seen in the last 8 yrs tell me, the tests are fine, or just “borderline,” abnormal and to stop at Walgreen’s on my way home and get some Rogaine, and “they have very nice wigs today.” I just want to smack them!
Symptoms: Massive hair shedding, ice cold hands & feet, lost outer 1/3 of brows, insomnia, but I am not tired at all and have tons of energy. Even at 2:00 and I’m still wide awake. Last week I started to get a “twitch” in my left eye, someone said that’s a lack of B12?
Note: My TSH always seems to be all over the place? At times 0.85 and then 4.31.
TSH when last tested was 4.31. Has gone increasing up from 0.86 in 2001.
T3, Total 1.10 (range 0.8 – 2.0)
T4, Free 1.26 (range 0.93 – 1.70)
Ferritin 12 (range 11.1 264.0)
Transferrin 371 (range 188-341)
Iron Binding Capacity 464 (range 250 – 400)
I live in Wisconsin (south end) and looking for someone to refer me to a good DR/ND/etc. to help me figure this out and if need be, get on some thyroid med.
Thank you immensely for your help and support.
Re: On Synthroid and Feeling Like Crap
Hi Debra, welcome to our thyroid group. Glad to have you here, but sorry you are having problems feeling well. I will ask Bethanie to look on our list to see what docs others may have recommended in NYC. In the meantime, do you happen to have copies of your thyroid labs? Has your endo done other testing like Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy, Ferritin, Your Thyroid Antibodies, Free T3, Free T4, TSH and Vitamin B12 for starters? If you know your lab numbers and want some help knowing why you may be feeling so poorly sometimes the labs if they have done the right tests can give you a clue what to ask for with your new physician if you change docs.
If you’re on Synthroid, don’t despair. Most of us felt like crap on that too, and changed over to a Natural Thyroid Medication. What is most common on people with Synthroid is that the T3 (which is the active type of thyroid hormone, the one that gives you energy etc.. is way too low because Synthroid just has T4 the non-active thyroid hormone in it. The docs give you the Synthroid (T4) and expect your body to convert it to T3. Which generally doesn’t happen because if you could convert it well, normally you wouldn’t have a thyroid problem
Just know that there is a way out of feeling miserable. It’s not necessary, and none of us deserve to feel awful which is what happens when we are not treated appropriately in terms of thyroid medications.
I am new to this board. I have been on this Synthroid for 6 months and am going out of my mind. I feel like complete cr*p. Is anyone here from NYC and can suggest a good Endocrinologist? Or can someone give suggestions of how to find one that will work with you personally? HELP!
Re: How to you take Thyroid Medication Sublingually
Hi Christine, I’m on NatureThroid also and take it sublingually. Here’s what I do.. I learned this tip from Bethanie. I got a pill crusher–the one I got was from Walgreens. It is a cylindrical type (blue) which you can use to split pills and/or crush them. I take my tablets and put them in the top (pill crusher part)– then I crush my tablets. I then take the powder and put that on a small spoon being careful not to drop any of the crushed tablets. I do this over a clean paper towel so that in the event I do have any droppage I can retrieve it from the paper towel.
So then I have the powder mixture on a spoon. I take one hand and open my mouth and kind of pull the side pocket away up and away and then insert the spoon with the other hand and let the powder slide off the spoon into the bottom lower pocket of my mouth. I close my mouth around the spoon to get any of the remaining powder off of it, and then I take a drop or two of honey, place it on one of my fingers—then slide the honey over top of the crushed mixture in my mouth. This way, it dissolves super quickly, and although it may sound complicated–it’s so easy I could do this in my sleep.
For those of you who don’t want to do this, then chewing the tablet will be better than swallowing it, but I like the sublingual route because then my stomach doesn’t have to process the thyroid medication and I don’t have to be so careful not to eat certain things without a few hours of taking my thyroid meds.
In terms of the NatureThroid being more of the same..I really don’t think so. Most people are doing just fine with NatureThroid and if for some reason they are not, it can be for several reasons.
1. If they are swallowing the tablet and not taking it sublingually, then consuming calcium, iron or foods containing these things within 4 hours of taking their thyroid meds, then you can block the absorption
2. If they are not on an appropriate dose of medication (then any thyroid med will be a problem)
3. If they have not had their iron and ferritin checked and/ Vitamin D3 and B12 analyzed, this can be an issue in terms of how well the thyroid med will work
4. If they have thyroid antibodies but either have not ever had these lab tests so that they and their doctor’s don’t know about them, and/or if their doctor is not dosing appropriately for those with thyroid antibodies–then any thyroid medication that they take can be problematic
In terms of the Canadian thyroid, some people say they do like it, but most if they are using it have to take MORE of the Canadian thyroid then the NatureThroid, because it, according to most people I know who have used both, is less strong than the NatureThroid.
5. Finally, if someone was on the Armour (new version) and their Reverse T3 has built up, and their doctor is not testing for Reverse T3, then again, whatever thyroid medication they are on, likely is going to be a problem until they get the Reverse T3 issue fixed, because high levels of Reverse T3 will stop/block thyroid hormone from getting into the body.
Obviously, everyone has to make their own choice in terms of which thyroid medication to try, but I want everyone to get the full story about the options for natural dessicated thyroid hormone. NatureThroid for sure, is less expensive and easier to get then the Canadian Version. For those who wish to try both, I suggest asking your doctor for 2 prescriptions and then ordering both (1x) and seeing which one you do better on. Most people are ordering if from UniversalDrugStore from Canada.. you can google it and find their website as well as their phone number. But it is more expensive, it takes longer to get here, and I’m not convinced it’s any better than NatureThroid, in fact, because it’s even less strong, most people if they continue to use it are having to get an increased dose on the Canadian thyroid.
I’m glad you reported your feedback to Forest Labs. You know it’s interesting… everyone seems to get “the spiel…ie: like the PR version from the Company, saying most people etc are reporting better results, yet, out of thousands of patients I personally have heard from—probably less than 1% are saying that they are doing “ok” with the new Armour. And googling about it doesn’t give me any more confidence in what they are saying being true either. I see more of the same reported online about people having really bad reactions to it. Not to say people shouldn’t call and complain. I just don’t trust what we’re being told…. And I’ve called a number of times..
For Rose and Carin:
Thank you so much for your suggestions. I appreciate you sharing your experiences with me. This is what I have been doing since my last post. I take 65mg’s of Naturethroid without crushing it in the morning along with 5mg’s of Cytomel as Rose suggested and then 65mg’s Naturethroid in the evening again not crushing it. So the only thing I did different was to not crush the Naturethroid and add Cytomel. Since then, my body temperature is finally normal and stays consistent throughout the day. My mood is slightly better as I am starting to have feelings for others instead of being detached and angry all of the time. It has been 4 days so I am raising the Cytomel to 10mgs tomorrow (25-75mg’s is a normal maintenance dose). I haven’t continued to crush the Naturethroid because I can’t seem to get it to stay under my tongue without flowing to my cheeks and swallowing it therefore wasting all that I’m trying to accomplish. I’m praying for some more improvement.
Carin, I haven’t had those tests yet but I will be sure to ask at my next visit. The thyroid tests done at the lab were the “thyroid panel” that they offered. I think they are the same ones my Endo orders. Do you have to ask for special tests that your doctor doesn’t regularly order? If so, I hope he will agree to that.
Although my Endo listens to me, I feel like I am the doctor sometimes educating him. I live in Houston, does anyone know of an Endo who is knowledgeable, cares and is abreast of the thyroid crisis we are all facing?
I have a question for those of you that take your thyroid medicine sublingulaly: How do you mix it with the honey/sugar for better absorption, and how do you not make a mess of things?! I recently switched from a compounded thyroid to Armour, with disastrous results. When I tried to get the pharmacy to give me the compounded version, they told me they didn’t offer it any longer since Armour was now available. I did improve things slightly by chewing the tablet, but after a week or so that stopped working as well. I just got a new prescription for Naturethroid and from what I’m reading here, it will be more of the same. I am trying to go the honey/sugar route, but I’ve never taken any medicine except by swallowing it so this is taking some getting used to.
I’d also love the name/number of a place to get the Canadian medication – perhaps that would be a better route. I’m in Chicago but I’m willing to ship from anywhere to get something that will work better.
I have also called Armour to complain about the new formula, and they were very receptive to my feedback – however they did defend their choice to change the formula and said that many people had BETTER absorption than before. So I urge you to call them yourselves and make your voice heard – and tell them you are switching brands. This will make them pay greater heed to your complaints.
New NatureThryoid for Tami: Hi Tami, Just wanted to check in with you to see how you were feeling since it’s been few more days since you last wrote. I know you had just begun crushing your NatureThroid and taking it sublingually—so is this helping at all do you think?
I know you listed your labs that you paid for, but the labs that you had done, are not really the ones that are helpful……
Here’s what you listed
“TSH 1.60 (.34-5.60) I usually do best around .45
T3-Uptake 33 (32-48)
Total T-4 6.1 (6.1-12.2)
T-7 5.12 (5.93-13.13)”
Next time if you are ordering your own labs, for follow up the only ones you’ll need are
TSH
Free T3
Free T4 and
possibly Reverse T3 if you want to see where your Reverse T3 is. To save some money you don’t have to do the Reverse T3 each time, and if really on a budget and ordering your own you can get
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
All the other ones you listed aren’t really giving you the info you need, except that you did mention that your TSH level was still higher than where you feel your best. If that’s still the case, you may need to raise your thyroid medication again, rather than waiting for 3 months to do so.
I would also see if you could either post your last ferritin levels, along with full iron panel, as well as your Vitamin D3 and B12. All these things together can make a difference in how we feel, so if you’ve had those tests please post them along with ranges. And if not, perhaps the next time you have your labs done you could also get those labs drawn. On the Vitamin B12, (the best way to test that is through 3 tests which are: serum B12, serum Homocyestine and Urinary MMA) If you are not supplementing B12 at all and/or are not taking any vitamins or things with vitamin B12 in it, you can just try to get the one B12 test through serum, but it’s not always the most accurate.
Re: Armour Thyroid Doesn’t work anymore
Hey everyone, I couldn’t agree more. If things are still not going well for you on the new Armour—-please try something else. I changed to the natural thyroid medication Naturethroid and am doing GREAT. It’s well worth it to TRY it. I know there are so many posts here on the board because this thyroid support group gets so much traffic, but I changed when I read about Bri’s experience as well as lots of others who had good results after changing to a different natural thyroid medicine.
Don’t worry too much about writing Forest Labs and begging them to switch. You have to fix your own health FIRST.
RE: All Hypothyroid Symptoms Back on Newly Formulated Armour
Diane, I’m a member of several thyroid support groups, and there are lots of people saying the very same thing. There was another post here this a.m. — and I agree 100% with what the other lady said.
She said our first priority has to be to change our thyroid medication. If what we are using isn’t working—we really must do something different and something about it because staying hypothyroid can cause lots of bad health effects in our bodies.
Just because the new Armour doesn’t work, does not mean you cannot take natural thyroid medication.
There are lots of thyroid patients who are doing great now on Naturethroid, which is another natural thyroid medication. Others are ordering their natural thyroid medication from Canada (which is totally legal and ok with the FDA) using thyroid medication by the brand name of Erfa.
Naturethroid in the USA is less expensive and works just fine for most, so if I were you, I’d try that first and see how you do. Taking it subligually and crushing the tablets –then using a bit of honey in my opinion works best. Do you think you can ask your doctor to change your prescription? Keep us posted on what you decide to do!
Since the reformulation of armour all my symtoms are back!! When I was on the T4 years ago I had heartburn so bad took all stomach meds for heartburn and nothing helped. I felt so bad on T4 always sick with low hypo symtoms. When I finally got on the armour what a difference I felt like I use too and when they refomulated the armour all my symtoms came back. Heartburn is so bad terribe palpations and on and on. I don”t know what to do,I am suffering and don”t know where to turn. Can anything be done about the change? Tell me and I will do what I can. Thanks for any help. Diane
Re: Getting NatureThroid – You Can Mail Order it From Here
Hi everyone, just wanted to post that if you’re ever having difficulty getting NatureThroid, all of us here have always been able to mail order it from Clarke’s Pharmacy in AZ during previous times when there were shortages of natural dessicated thyroid hormone.
Clarke’s is very close in proximity to the manufacturer, and they have helped quite a few of us who live in smaller towns get our thyroid medication on a regular basis. (I think the last time I used them it was 7.00 for shipping)
Here’s there contact info:
Clarke’s Pharmacy in AZ phone: 480-488-2007 Fax: 480-575-0541
36889 N. Tom Darlington Blvd.
Carefree Arizona 85377
I don’t have any trouble now getting Naturethroid locally, but for those who cannot get it, you can order it from Clarke’s and they’re really quick and good with customer service. You still need a prescription, but no one needs to suffer and go without thyroid medication if you can’t find it locally.
Re: Armour changing and symptoms of low thyroid returning
It is perplexing to say the least. I do wonder what the lab testing would show if someone could get that done, and if it’s not too cost prohibitive. But I wonder if our issues are more with the fillers and less about the active ingredients in the thyroid medication.
I’m using the Canadian thyroid med. But it is more expensive so I may try the Naturethyroid and see if that is a solution. I do know also that every time I try a different thyroid medicine I end up adjusting the dose. Good luck to everyone!
Re: New Armour and Naturethroid
Hi Tami, I’m so glad you wrote in about your experience. It’s like being on a merry go round just trying to stop these companies from messing around with our medications! I really wish Forest Labs would not have changed the Armour.
But I do think the Naturethroid is working better for me than the new Armour did. In my case what happened is that when I took the new Arrmour, my Reverse T3 went way up, then even the Naturethroid had trouble working. I don’t know why this is, but maybe someone here can answer that question. Anyways, my doctor put me on Cytomel and Naturethroid, and hooray…. I’m finally back to my normal self.
Not sure if that will help you, but I wanted to write in just in case.
Blessings to all,
Rose
Hi Everyone! I have been hypothyroid for 6 years and Hashi for 14. It was such a wonderful blessing to be in complete remission of all of my symptoms when I took the original Armour. The shortage last year scared me but in February I was able to get a mail order supply for 3 months. Shortly after, I started noticing some of my old symptoms creeping back into my life. Brain fog, deregulation of body temperature, hair falling out, depression, moodiness, irritability, dry skin and loss of all ambition. I felt like a lazy bum always laying in bed. I was terrified inside of what could possibly be wrong with me. I too found out the hard way that I was not crazy and that the Armour I loved which gave me back my life had recently been reformulated into something that was actually hurting me. How could they not tell us???!!!! On my normal dose which always kept my TSH around .45 was now at 4.00. My Endo had no idea what happened to Armour so I had to educate him. I’m very lucky he listens to me here in Houston. He wanted to put me on Synthroid and Cytomel but I have been on Synthroid and it drove me crazy once before. Even though my Endo was not familiar with Naturethroid, he agreed to try me on it for 3 months. I have since been back in July and he smiled at my test results and said I made the right decision!
Here is my problem now. In May the Naturethroid was completely out at all pharmacies in Houston and surrounding areas when my Endo wrote me that first prescription. I was even out of thryroid hormone and had nothing to take for four days. We were about to give up when we found a Sam’s Club that had 400 of their 30mgs left. I needed 90 mg. For three months we were able to fill my prescription there. I was so weak from not taking anything for four days I thought I was a goner, but by the second day on the Naturethroid I felt so much energy and from then I just kept getting better and better. Once again, all hypothyroid symptoms disappeared. Was this the old Naturethroid before reformulation that worked so wonderful?? Meanwhile, our regular mail order pharmacy called three months later to say they have a replenished stock of Naturethroid and could now fill our prescription. I started taking those and it’s been almost three months now and the same hypothryroid symptoms are returning to haunt me again. Are these the reformulated ones and is it possible they are not working for me like the Armour? I read the advice to crush it, put honey and place under my tongue and I have done that for two days. I decided to pay for my own thyroid lab at the same place one of my doctor’s use but doesn’t require a doctor’s order just to see what’s going on and the results were abnormal for T-7′s.
TSH 1.60 (.34-5.60) I usually do best around .45
T3-Uptake 33 (32-48)
Total T-4 6.1 (6.1-12.2)
T-7 5.12 (5.93-13.13)
I think I may need to raise my dose again even though I just raised it three weeks ago after those labs as I should be feeling better by now. Please, if anyone has any suggestions for me I would love to hear them.
I am so very sorry for all of you out there who are needlessly suffering from the thyroid reformulations and also the the difficulties in finding the right medication and the right dose suited for you. Please don’t give up hope because there is an answer for all of us and you never know tomorrow may be that day but you can be sure that at the right time it will be revealed!! God is merciful and full of compassion.
Re: Still Tired, Compounded Thyroid Not Getting Any Better – For Cynthia
Hello Cynthia, hearing your symptoms and looking at your labwork I am afraid you may be way undermedicated. See, you have antibodies (TPO) which are called Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies and when you have these antibodies, this means that your lab work from day to day can vary or fluctuate widely. Unless you treat your thyroid issues aggressively. Which means to keep your TSH very, very low. In Hashimotos patients many of the top doctors (I know they’re rare) will say to keep the TSH at a level that is similar to what a thyroid cancer patient would have, which would mean a very supressed TSH. Now, this doesn’t mean that anyone with Hashimotos has cancer–what it does mean that we (I have it too) are generally going to need more thyroid medication in order to stop the thyroid antibodies from attacking our thyroid glands.
You’ve been on such a low level now, and because you are not feeling better, I really wouldn’t continue on the same road with this doctor, if she’s not willing to change your prescription.
With what your doctor has you on now, it would just be equivalent to a 1 grain dose of natural thyroid medication, which according to your labs and symptoms, is probably still way too low for you.
There are other issues as well.
1. Because you’re on compounded thryoid medication, your pharmacy could be using a filler that is keeping you from being able to absorb it. This, along with the fact, that you’re likely to be on too low of a dose of thyroid medication could be contributing to the problem.
A: Can you please find out what filler your compounding pharmacy is using in your compounded medication?
B: Instead of using compounded, you may want to ask your doctor for a trial prescription of NatureThroid which you should be able to get locally. Walgreens, and Safeway generally carrry it. If you can’t find it locally, you can always order it from A Pharmacy in AZ which several of our members here have used.
C: When you ask for a prescription of Naturethroid, ask that you be given a prescription for 2 grains instead of 1 grain. Then split your tablet in 1/2. This will give you some flexibility if you need to adjust your dose upward, and take another 1/4 of the tablet about 5 hours after your first dose, with the approval of either this doctor, or you just may need to find another one, if this one is keeping you so undermedicated.
The reason for asking for the 2 grain prescription is that the 2 grain is generally the same cost of the 1 grain, so it makes financial sense to do so, as well as giving you some flexibility for the future in terms of adjusting your dose.
I am so sorry that you’re still feeling badly. The brain fog and tiredness can be extreme at levels that you’ve posted. If you need other help in how to interview new doctors let me know. When I interview docs I ask them if they prescribe only using the TSH levels or if they prescribe also using parameters like how the patient feels. If they’re only going by numbers, and yours are even very poor numbers which are screaming out for more thyroid medication, then I simply find another doctor. With the Hashimotos especially you’ll need to make sure that you’re on the proper amount of thyroid hormone. And I’m sorry that I was delayed in getting back to you. Had been juggling some family medical issues myself…. But getting my schedule back on track so should be much faster now in answering questions.
I am a bit frustrated. About 8 weeks ago I switched from .150 mg Synthroid to compounded T4 65mcg/ T3 25 mcg. Before the switch my labs were:
T4, Free – 1.1 (Range 0.8-1.8)
T3, Free – 255 (Range 230-420)
TSH, 3rd Generation: .18 (Range .40-4.50)
TPO, 44 (Range <35)
After being on the compounded thyroid for 8 weeks, here are my labs:
TSH 6.88 ((Range .40-4.50)
T4, Free .87 (Range .82-1.77)
T3, Free 2.8 (Range 2.0-4.4)
I told my doctor about 4 weeks ago that I was falling asleep in the afternoon and now I see why. She increased my T4 to 100mcg but kept my T3 at 25mcg. This just doesn't seem like it's going to make any difference and I am going to spend another 6 weeks feeling terrible until I get blood work done again.
Any thoughts? I am so frustrated!
Re: Rashes with new Armour
Hi Cakey, alright that’s different. Here’s some things that could help.
Armour is just a brand name, if you’re getting compounded medication, then you’re actually not getting Armour thyroid, you’re getting a compounded natural dessicated thyroid powder.
Sometimes people just say they’re getting Armour Compounded, but compounded is not NatureThroid, nor is it Armour Thyroid—it’s just natural thyroid powder that the pharmacy mixes up.
However, and here’s the thing that could help you. Do you know what filler your compounding pharmacy uses to make up your thyroid capsules?
If you’re getting a rash you could just be allergic or be sensitive to the filler that your pharmacy uses. You can request a different filler.
Mine will use either acidophilus which is a probiotic, or olive oil. Sometimes pharmacies will use cellulose which can cause some allergies in some people who are sensitive. But find out what filler your compounding pharmacy uses and then ask them to use something else like the olive oil or acidophilus. If your’s can’t do it that way you can mail order it from a pharmacy who has lots of experience with this.
On the gluten issue, I’ve been tested for celiac and am technically “negative for celiac disease”, but I also notice that any itching or rash etc seems worse when I have wheat products containing gluten. So I’m trying a gluten free diet also because for some reason gluten problems seem to go along with thyroid disease. Ugggh..like we don’t already have enough to deal with.
I don’t think I have gluten intolerances. But I did notice the rash got worse after eating gluten. I get my medication compounded, so I’m wondering if I need to switch from Armour completely and try NatureThroid.
Re: Rash with the New Armour Question
Hi Cakey, regarding getting skin problems with the new Armour. Yes, I’ve had rashes too. As well as increased itching etc.
I talked with my pharmacist about it and he said that it could be a combination of these two things or one or the other.
1. I could have a sensitity to the fillers in the new Armour
2. Because of the fillers in the new Armour, I may be going hypothyroid which can cause things like ezcema and itching etc.
What I did just to see if it helped was to change to a compounded natural dessicated thyroid medication. It’s so much more expensive that I really don’t like having to do this, but my rash and itching went away so it must have been something in there that was causing it.
I may try Naturethroid just to see how I do with that one because if I don’t have to pay the high cost of compounded, then it would be better for me.
BTW, do you happen to have any gluten intolerances also?
Anyone had a rash with the new Armour? For years, I’ve been on 240 mg dessicated Armour compounded — but with my new refill, I’ve developed a rash that only goes away when I stop taking my meds.
Re: Hashimotos question and antibodies increasing
Hi Cheryl, Many times the antibodies will actually DECREASE if you are taking enough thyroid medication. The mistake that some people make is that their doctors will tell them that they are going to “watch” the Hashimotos. Watching Hashimotos is like “watching” diabetes to see if it will go away. Which sometimes diabetes can be helped by making changes in one’s diet and exercise, but simply “watching it” is not helpful and can be harmful.
1. What are your other labs? Free T3, Free T4, and Reverse T3 if you have them
2. How do you feel? Are you noticing any increased symptoms?
3. Are you taking thyroid medication now?
4. If so what kind and how much are you taking?
Hashimotos Question:
Hello, is it normal to have antibodies that are increasing if you have Hashimotos? I just got my most recent thyroid blood work and it shows that my antibodies are not going down, but going up. Was wondering if anyone else knew about this and if so if there is anything I can do about it.
Re: Which Medication is Best after Armour
I’ve tried NatureThroid and I didn’t care for it either, and I simply cannot use the newly formulated Armour. My doctor, whom I had to twist his arm in the first place to prescribe natural thyroid wants to put me on Synthroid. But I know that’s worse then anything because I tried it when I was first diagnosed and I think I’d rather have no thyroid medication at all then have to take Synthroid. I am going to ask I think for a trial of compounded natural thyroid. Maybe that will get me back on track. If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. Thank you.
Re: NatureThroid vs Erfa
I forgot to mention that the Erfa also dissolves in your mouth like the old Armour did. So although it is more expensive if you want something that doesn’t have the fillers, yet tastes like the old Armour you may want to try the Canadian natural thyroid medicine.
Re: Naturethyroid or Erfa
Just a suggestion for anyone who liked the old taste of Armour. The Erfa tastes and has the same texture as the old Armour. I don’t think there are any fillers in the Erfa either, so it dissolves pretty easily.
Re: Naturethroid or Erfa?
I like the Naturethroid –but haven’t used the Erfa either. The Naturethroid is definitely not sweet, so if you’re going to crush the tablets you can just add some sugar to it if you don’t have honey. But the thyroid medicine seems to work great for me. Much much better than the new junk that they are labeling as Armour thyroid.
Re: Efra or Naturethroid questions on which one is better
Hi everyone. I am a convert over to the Naturethroid. I didn’t really have any grand plan in choosing it except for that it is less expensive and I can buy it locally:-) The other thing is that it works well for me, so I have no other reason to try anything else. I used to use the former Armour thyroid–and then like so many of you had to do something different. It is important though I think to crush the Naturethroid and add some honey while taking it sublingually. For some reason just swallowing the tablet doesn’t seem to work very well.
Re: Which Natural Thyroid Medication to Use? Nature Throid or Erfa (Canadian Thyroid)
Hi Erin, I was wondering the very same thing as you are. And what I’ve done was to ask my doctor to write me two different prescriptions. One for the Erfa thyroid and one for the Naturethroid. I’m going to try both and then see which one is the best option for me. If you decide to use one or the other it would be good to hear what you think.
Question on Canadian Thyroid or Naturethroid
I know there’s been so much talk here about people wanting to switch from Armour Thryoid to something else. I can’t decide if I want to try the Naturethryoid or The Efra Canadian type natural thyroid medication. What is the current thoughts about which one may work better?
My Hashimotos flared up again on the new Armour. When I had my labs redone apparently my Reverse T3 got very high. I changed to the Naturethroid and I’m not feeling quite so bad now. I do think it will take some time to feel good again. Like my body was very depleted or something from the Armour change.
Re: Switching from Armour Thyroid
Hi Sandy, It’s so good to hear that someone else has switched. I was so miserable on the new Armour. But I had trouble getting my doctor to change the prescription. I know it’s easy for us probably to look back and say that changing was the best decision we ever made, but gosh it’s so hard to get a doctor to prescribe the natural thyroid,and then some of them just refuse to change their prescriptions to NatureThroid.
I finally just had to find another doctor, but it gets expensive to have to do this and when your brain fog is so thick from not having enough thyroid medicine, decisions can be more difficult.
But I do agree—that if people are miserable on the Armour, then it would be best to have a family member help them to either find a new doctor or advocate for a different prescription. Healing to all!
And Sandy–again, I’m very glad that you’re feeling better!
I don’t understand why all you people above who are having problems with Armour won’t switch to Nature Throid?????
I did and it’s wonderful. NO PROBLEMS, NONE……There is an adjustment period as is understandable.
But they don’t fool around with the drug. It’s great. I wouldn’t live without it.
So you all complain and complain about Armour, just stop taking it…………..and stop complaining.
Hashimotos Question about Thyroid Medications
I’m a Hashimotos patient, just found a out about 5 months ago. I’m on a timed release t3 that is compounded from my compounding pharmacy in town. Initially I was on a small dose that progressively increased. At first, I felt fabulous. Lots of energy, I could hike, bike, run, swim, etc, but in the past few weeks I’ve been getting progressively more tired. To the point where you could say I’m exhausted. Do you think this could be related to the ferritin? My last lab work showed my ferritin at 31. I’m changing to taking this 2x a day instead of once now.
Thanks for the help.
Re:Changing from Armour Thyroid to something else
Used Armour thyroid for 6.5 years–when it changed I crashed. Worst part of all of it was that my doctor told me I was depressed! Finally, when I learned about the change in ingredients I found a new doctor and I got a prescription for the Naturethroid. I couldn’t find it locally, so I ended up using the Canadian Thyroid via mail order instead. It is working just great for me, although I had to increase my dose by .5 of a grain.
Thank you for all the good info and support
Naturethroid is so much better than new Armour now. Definitely worth trying. I noticed a difference right away
Re: Changing from Armour to NatureThroid
Hi Chris, I was an Armour fan for years. Was the only thing that helped me get out from under of the fogginess, tiredness, and just overall feeling miserable that I formerly had from taking Synthroid prior to finding out about Armour. But everything tanked for me when the Amour changed their formula. Didn’t find out about it until I came across the info on line. It was a huge disappointment.
I’ve been using NatureThroid for the past 9 months. It works far better in my opinion, than the new Amour, and I started feeling better after about the 2nd day of the switch. I think if I’m remembering correctly it took me about 2 weeks to really feel good, but each day was better and better.
Changing from Armour to NatureThroid Question
Anyone who could give me more information about your experience switching from Armour to Naturethroid? Did you notice an improvement in your symptoms? If so, how long did it take for you to start feeling any better? Thanks for the help!
Re: Taking Iron with Vitamin C
Forgot to mention, I am taking my iron with vitamin C and not taking it with any calcium or around my thyroid meds etc. My doctor says it’s very important to separate your iron, calcium and thyroid medicine otherwise it doesn’t get absorbed or blocks one another. Just wanted to let everyone know this in case you were also having trouble with iron and or ferritin and thyroid.
My Vitamin D was only 25 and my ferritin was low when my doctor did my lab testing last week. She has me on folic acid + iron supplements. I am using the ones recommended by some of the ladies here because the iron I used to take upset my stomach too much. Hopefully, I’ll get some good results.
RE: Hair Loss, Hashimotos and Iron
Kimberly,
Yes, having low ferritin can cause hair loss as well as low energy, and make it very hard to tolerate your thyroid medication. Do you have a good thyroid doctor who can help you manage some of this? Also, what were your Vitamin D levels and are you monitoring these through lab tests?
Re:Hashimotos, Hair Loss and Iron
I’m taking 2.5 grains of Naturethroid along with Vitamin D 10,000 iu a day and feel much better than I have in a long time. I recently had my ferritin tested and it is quite low — my lab test was only 12 with a range of (10-291), so I guess I’ll be adding in iron also. Is it true that low ferritin can cause a lot of hair loss?
Re: Hashimotos After Having Kids
I was diagnosed with Hashimotos after my twins were born. Talk about struggling to find someone to properly diagnose me! I can understand Pamela’s feelings about not finding the right doctor for many years. First I was told it was normal to have postpartum depression, and that weight gain was just to be expected after having children. Even my hairloss was explained away–and of course, everyone with kids is always supposed to be exhausted right? Finally, my sister in law who lives out of state told me to go to a compounding pharmacy and ask them for recommendations on a new doctor. After all these years of being ignored, I finally was tested for thyroid antibodies, and had more extensive testing done on my thyroid levels. I’ve been on Naturethroid for 16 months, and am doing great. If I can encourage any person who feels like they have a problem with their thyroid not to give up—and keep on trying to find the right doctor. It is so worth it!
Re: Hashimotos and Labs: Which Ones to Request
Hello Pamela, I’m glad you’ve joined our thyroid discussion group. And oh, my goodness is your story familiar. It’s so amazing that doctors will tell us that there’s nothing to be done when that is not true. And the Hashimotos can actually keep getting worse, if we just ignore it.
In terms of follow up testing, here’s what I would suggest:
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
If you already know you have antibodies, no need to retest them unless you just want to see how high they are or where they are in relation to your last test.
But I would also add these:
Complete Iron Panel which includes ALL of the following:
Serum Iron, TIBC, UIBC AND FERRITIN
With your symptoms: the heart pounding etc, it could be that your ferritin is too low. This often happens in those of us with thyroid disorders and if your ferritin is too low it can make it difficult to raise your thyroid meds up where you need to be
Also, the Reverse T3 that I mentioned earlier sometimes is an issue for us, especially if we have been on thyroid meds for a while. I have seen many labs with Reverse T3 elevated after the Armour thyroid reformulation. What can happen is that the thyroid hormones pool OUTSIDE of your cells, unable to get inside, so although the labs look fine or normal, essentially one can be very hypothyroid if the Reverse T3 is elevated.
Another good thing to ask for are your Vitamin B12 levels:
Here are the appropriate tests (and yes, all of them are best in order to find out about your Vitamin B12 and folic acid levels
Serum B12
Urinary MMA
Serum Homocysteine
And Folic Acid (Serum)
Cortisol could be another culprit. It’s pretty common to have adrenal issues with thyroid troubles. So a morning cortisol draw is a good start. Even better is saliva testing for your adrenals. Let me know if you want more info on that and I can share additional info on getting more testing for your adrenals.
Hope that helps and please keep in touch and let us know how you’re doing. And how your testing goes! Come back and participate often–by helping each other out, we don’t have to be miserable, just because we have a thyroid issue!
Hello Hospital Soup….Love that name! Anyway, I wanted to tell my experience with Hashimoto’s. My original doctor in California put my on synthroid, told me my TSH was normal, and even though I felt like I had a bad case of the flu (all the time) he would not increase it. I asked if there were any other tests I could take that might reveal the problem more accurately. He flat out told me NO! Every other doctor at least 10, told me the very same thing over the next 5 years. No one would help me and I could not even walk around the block I was so worn out. Finally I found an alternative doctor that specialized in natural hormones. My first appointment she told me just by looking at me that I needed an increase in thyroid meds. She took me off synthroid and put me on armour thyroid. That was in January of 2000! I burst into tears in her office when she knew exactly what I had been trying to tell every other so called doctor over the past 5 years! But guess what! After being on Armour I ran my first marathon in October 2000! Hallelujah!
I have now lived in Hawaii for 6+ years. My thyroid has been all over the place and has been especially difficult to get a handle on. One month my TSH will as high as 38 and after 3 months will be -2. My T4 & T3 have also been difficult to keep in a good range. Over the past year I have noticed some odd symptoms: my hands & feet constantly hurt, my body aches in random places but a hot bath doesn’t even get to it. Brain fog and memory is horrible, I don’t experience depression for that I am very happy.
My last TSH was about .07 but my T4 was also very low. The doc told me to increase my thyroid meds to try to get my T4 to increase, but it did the opposite. Recently I found out about the changes made to armour – I was experiencing the same symptoms as many who have written in. I decided not to deal with any of my docs here and called my California doctor to get Nature-throid from her. I started out with 90mg which is 30mg less than the armour I was taking. I have been on it now for almost a month – I feel so much better! I have energy! But my heart is pounding between 90-100 at rest. I will be getting my labs done in another 2 weeks. I am wondering if you might have any suggestions or recommendations for me. I am walking more now but still not back to a good exercise routine. With all the body aches and exhaustion I have not been exercising enough to make any kind of difference. I am 30 pounds over weight. I need help. Thank you for being here.
Pamela
Bethanie,
Thanks for your response! I actually do have Hashimoto’s, so I won’t worry about taking extra iodine!
I am feeling much better. I was still feeling a little bit of the brain fog, so I upped my dose a little. (I have a great doctor who treats by how you’re feeling, not by my test results). I am currently taking 9 of the 64.5mg? pills, all in the morning, under the tongue with honey. I also take magnesium, selenium, zinc and a B50 complex vitamin with breakfast.
Overall, I’m doing really well. Also, just wanted to mention I am getting my NatureThroid from Clark’s Pharmacy and they are AWESOME. Really nice and easy to deal with. Which is so great after trying to deal with Walmart haha.
Re: Is Iodine Good for your Thyroid
Hi Bri, great to hear from you. How have you been feeling recently? Do you think your thyroid medication is doing it’s job?
Regarding the Iodine, although you will hear that it’s “good” for thyroid patients on a number of Internet sites, you can’t always believe what you read:-) I tend to be much more cautious with iodine for thyroid patients because, in the event that someone has an auto-immune condition such as Hashimotos or Graves Disease, adding iodine is like adding fuel to the fire, and can definitely make one not only feel worse, but can hasten the progression of a goiter and aggravate other symptoms.
So one size does not fit all when it comes to thyroid treatment. Even if you don’t have these conditions, sometimes iodine can have the opposite of the desired effect and actually block the release of thyroid hormones. Too much iodine reduces blood flow in the thyroid gland, so although you will read from some patients about how iodine helped their thyroid, I would rather have someone get an adequate amount of iodine through their diet, and for anyone with auto-immune conditions, would say not to even think about adding iodine through diet or supplements because that can make things worse.
In terms of where you can buy it, here’s a link to the product that some will use on Amazon. There are a number of good reviews, but again, anyone with auto-immune conditions and/or positive antibodies on the thyroid antibody tests should not take iodine.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iodine
When you have a chance would love to hear how things are going for you!
I’m back with a new question
I’ve read on several different websites that taking an iodine as a supplement is good for thyroid health. I went to look at my local pharmacy and they don’t carry it. Do you or anyone you know take iodine? And if so, do you know where they get it? Thanks!
RE: NatureThroid Reformulated Too
Hi Bob, welcome to our thyroid discussion group. And I know it is confusing and perplexing to have all these issues when you just want something to take that will solve your thyroid problem once and for all.
The good news is that for most people, the reformulated NatureThroid works just fine. I have personally taken both Erfa and Naturethroid and although I prefer the taste of the Erfa, the Naturethroid works not only just fine, but better for me than the Erfa. I didn’t have any side effects from Erfa, but in comparing the new Naturethroid -for me, only, I think it is a tad bit stronger than the Erfa. My husband, however, likes the Erfa the best. So it kind of boils down to which one works better for you.
Again, the majority of thyroid patients that I hear from—and I hear from ALOT, are saying that they like the NatureThroid. And I think the reformulation of NatureThroid made it better as opposed to the reformulation of Armour which, according to most all the feedback from patients that I hear from, was worse.
NatureThroid changed from using a macrocrystylline cellulose to a microcrystalline cellulose as a filler. While I wish no cellulose was in it, the microcrystalline is supposedly better and easier for the body to absorb than the macrocrystalline cellulose. One TIP for using NatureThroid is to CRUSH your tablets and take it with a drop of honey sublingually. This seems to work very well for so many patients, and will help with absorption etc.
I wouldn’t throw in the towel just yet regarding having to order from Canada. Like I said, most people now are very happy with the NatureThroid, if they are crushing their tablets, adding honey, and taking it sublingually.
Please keep us posted with what you decide and then how you do on the NatureThroid. Getting feedback from everyone is so important and helpful for future thyroid patients. Any other questions you have, please fire away.
Wow! Skimming through these comments I have lost about all hope! After 12 years of Synthroid fog briefly interupted by 6 months of Armour hell (unkowingly started just after they “reformulated” it) I go to this site to hear good news about the Naturethroid I will be starting next week, only to hear that it too has been reformulated!
Should I even bother? Please tell me… do I need to try the Canadian bacon? I feel defeated just when I thought I was finally going to get what I needed. Is anybody out there listening?
Re: Frustrated and Gaining Weight
To sweetpeahun
Hi, thanks alot for writing in about your thyroid issue. I finally have some better news to report. I found another doctor. Bethanie, from this thyroid group helped me. You may want to ask for NatureThroid, it is widely available. I think I’ve seen here that you can get it at Walgreens normally, sometimes Sams club or Costo, and Safeway. If you can’t find it post here and someone can suggest a pharmacy in your town or area. I’m finally losing weight. Hooray, got a new doctor who understands the thyroid and I found out my ferritin level was very low and also my adrenal glands needed support. If you need suggestions on finding a doctor, post back and just put a note in your subject for Bethanie to send you the doc list if they have some in your area.
I’m glad you wrote in and I hope that you can find the right doctor and the right meds also. The people here are so helpful, so if you have questions or need anything just ask them. They know alot about the thyroid.
I completely feel your pain and frustration. I have been dealing with the same issues for 2 years when Iwas diagnosed with having hypothyroidism and a multi-nodular goiter thyriod. I was put on synthroid and my doctor refuses to switch me to anything else. I have always been on the low end of normal and with the meds I am still on the low end of normal and they wont adjust it. I have joint pain all the time, tired all the time, mood swings and many other things that the docs wont listen to. I requested to see an endocrinologist and he gave me all kinds of grief for that too. I would like to try the natural thyroid meds like Armour but I am not sure who to go to get that prescription from as all the docs I know tell me it has been taken off the market and there are no others available. I am very frustrated! Good luck with everything!
Re: Thyroid Tests and Results
Cynthia, You’re very welcome. Very glad to help. I’m pulling for you. Just know that there are so many posts here that we have where people will write in and have similar thyroid symptoms. Once they get their dose adjusted and/or on a medication that works well for them, they feel soooo much better. Keep at it, and please don’t accept feeling less than optimal. It’s not necessary and we all deserve much more.
Thank you so much, Carin! I appreciate the information very much.
Brain Fog and Hashimotos Question: For Cynthia
Hi Cynthia, Thanks alot for posting your labs along with your ranges. This makes it much easier for one of us to respond back to you.
So your labs are showing that you are still quite hypothyroid. Here’s why:
Your T3 should be at the top of the range, yours is much too low. This can absolutely contribute to being exhausted, and brain fog etc.
TSH is not really an issue if it’s low like yours is, this happens when one is on natural thyroid medicine, and as long as your TSH isn’t going up, then you can safely ignore this, and because of your Thyroid Antibodies (Hashimotos) you want your TSH to be supressed. Many Hashimotos patients feel best when their TSH is as low as possible or even completely supressed.
Your progesterone being low can contribute to how you are feeling, but unless you can get that T3 level up, you will most likely be feeling exhausted, tired and all the other lovely things we feel when we are hypothroid. And your doctor was smart to address the progesterone.
Here’s some other things that are important:
1. Have you ever had your ferritin tested, along with serum iron? Can make a huge difference for any of us with fatigue. Did you happen to see the article that I linked to earlier today on ferritin?
2. Vitamin B12 levels, if low, can also really play a part in fatigue, brain fog etc. Many of us with Hashimotos or any other auto-immune condition aren’t able to process the oral B12 very well, thus we end up deficient for years even if we’re taking B12 supplements. I went to a Doctor of Osteopath who is a Family Doctor and started getting B12 injections after I heard how much it was helping some of the other ladies who post here. What a huge difference! I couldn’t believe it Cynthia. Why didn’t someone tell me about this back years ago when I was in school? My concentration improved, even difficult computer tasks that had recently left me just too tired to tackle seemed easier. My memory improved and I got that “zest” back that I thought was lost forever. Now, I’m sure the B12 helped also because I was taking iron supplements. My ferritin was a 2 when it was tested…that’s sooooo very low. And I am on the right dose for me now of natural thryoid medicine. My D.O. here says that B12 is very supportive of the adrenal glands which many of us have adrenal fatigue with auto immune diseases etc. And now my husband gives them to me and it’s less expensive than taking the B12 supplement I had been taking before.
Make sure that your compounded prescription does not have cellulose in it. This will inhibit the absorption of your medicine. For fillers make sure they are using only olive oil or acidophilus.
I would ask your doctor for an increase for sure in terms of your prescription, and/or ask her for NatureThroid which may work better for you than compounded and gives you more flexibility in terms of adjusting your dose because you can split tablets and take let’s say 1 grain in the morning and then 1/2 grain about 5 hours later if your doctor wants you on 1.5 grains instead of one. Some may feel better taking the whole 1.5 grains in the morning, so it’s not that unusual to have to adjust things to fit what works for you. But based on your labs, it’s not suprising that you are still feeling tired etc.
Does that give you some ideas and the help that you needed? If you make any changes to your meds or amounts or supplements please keep us posted here so that we know what worked for you.
Carin
P.S. You should know fairly quickly if you adjust your dose if it’s going to work for you. For example, a friend of mine was on the NatureThroid and still feeling kinda of “fuzzy” in terms of her thinking and her energy was better than before without it, but still not up to par. She tried dosing 2x a day and adding 1/2 grain to her med dose (with her doctor’s approval of course) and then took the entire 1.5 grain in the morning, crushed her tablets and added honey. That worked for her! She doesn’t need a nap in the afternoon, and she recognized that she felt better the very day that she did this. Others may need a few days, but once you’re already on the thyroid hormones, I wouldn’t wait for another 4 weeks feeling the same before asking for something else to be done.
Hi out there!
I’ve been on .15mg L-Throxine for about 25 years. I’ve been really tired and haven’t been able to concentrate for the last couple of years. A new doctor switched me to compounded natural dessicated thyroid T4/65mcg and T3/25mcg. I have been on it for about 4 weeks and am not any better. Wondering if this dose sounds too low. I know the mcg vs mg is very different but I don’t really understand it enough to compare.
Here are my labs and ranges:
T4, Free – 1.1 (Range 0.8-1.8)
T3, Free – 255 (Range 230-420)
TSH, 3rd Generation: .18 (Range .40-4.50)
TPO, 44 (Range <35) (This is the 1st doctor who ever checked it!)
Could all of this be related to low progesterone instead of thyroid? She also is adding 100mg progesterone because it was at 18 (range 75-270). My biggest concern is brain fog and it is a real issue because of my job!! I am desperate for a solution.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Hi Cynthia,
Could you please post your lab’s ranges along with your labs? Each lab uses different ranges so in order to give you feedback, it’s important to see the ranges for each value.
For Example: T4, Free 1.1 Range (.04 – 4.50) or whatever your lab range is
With regards to the compounded medication can you call your compounding pharmacy and ask them if they can use either acidophilus as a filler or olive oil?
The last thing that they should be using is methyl-cellulose…that can bind to the thyroid medication and make it unusable for your body.
If you can post your lab ranges I’m happy to give you some feedback on them .
Hope this helps!
Good morning -
I’ve been on .15mg L-Throxine for about 25 years. I’ve been really tired and haven’t been able to concentrate for the last couple of years. A new doctor switched me to compounded natural dessicated thyroid T4/65mcg and T3/25mcg. I have been on it for about 3 weeks and am not any better. Wondering if this dose sounds too low. I found out the filler used is methylcellulose. Here are my labs:
T4, Free – 1.1
T3, Free – 255
TSH, 3rd Generation: .18
TPO, 44 (I know this is high – but this is the 1st doctor who ever checked it!)
My vitamin D was a little low too so I’m not taking supplements. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Re: Questions About Headaches and Thyroid Medication
Hello Kris, I just caught that you didn’t get a response to your last question. Apologize for that. I missed seeing that it was unanswered and I’ve had a family member in the hospital for the past few weeks so I got a bit behind in answering some posts.
Here’s some help with your questions.
Your Questions
Q:. “Since I started Armour Thyroid I have had an almost constant headache? Is that normal?
A: Kris, sometimes when beginning thyroid medication we can get a slight headache, but I would say if you’ve had a constant headache for a month, I would either question whether it is the medication itself or something that needs adjusted in terms of your dose. So no, you shouldn’t have constant headaches for this long.
Furthermore, because “headache” is one of the things I experienced when I was on the new Armour, and it is also one of the complaints that I hear alot about, along with heart palpitations in people who didn’t have them previously, if I were you, I would talk to your doctor about getting a different prescription for either NatureThroid or compounded natural thyroid medication. It’s an individual decision on what you want to ask for, but just know that you may want to check prices on the compounded in your area if that’s what you decide. It kind of made my decision for me when I found that compounded was around 10x as expensive as non-compounded.
And so far, most people whom I am hearing from, are having better success with the NatureThroid than with the new Armour. Let me know if you have any trouble getting the NatureThroid in your area. I can get mine at Walgreens or Safeway, and I’ve heard Costco will order it for you. Also there’s a pharmacy in AZ that so far, has always been able to mail order it to patients if you decide that you want to try that.
Even if you do switch to NatureThroid most people have continued the pill crush method and adding a drop of honey.
Almost forgot. You can also mail order thyroid medication called Efra from Canada, some people say that it’s like the old Armour, others aren’t as pleased with it. But do know that you should be feeling better with your thyroid medication not worse!!!
Q: “I have had hot flashes” all day and all night. Similar to premenopausal ones. Is that normal?”
A: That’s going to be hard for me to answer in terms of whether these increased hot flashes are from the Armour, or from your hormones fluctuating. I think the best thing to do would be to talk to your doctor, explain that you are having the increased hot flashes, and really, really consider changing your thyroid medication to something else. Most people again, have good success with one of the other natural thyroid medications, and I’m just not that thrilled about the Newly Formulated Armour, so when people write in about side effects, the best thing I can say is to talk to your doctor and ask about changing medications. If you do change thyroid meds, would you mind writing back in and updating with how you are doing?
You may find that changing thyroid medications helps with the increased hot flashes. And if they have been constant, and aren’t helped with the change in thyroid medications, it would be a great idea for your doctor to test your hormones again and see if something has shifted that would account for this. I don’t think anyone should have to suffer through constant hot flashes day/night etc.
Q: “I read that the old Armour is back is that true?”
A: That’s really hard to say because if you’ve read other posts you will probably know that Forest Labs didn’t tell anyone before they changed their formulation. There was an air of secrecy about the switch. It was actually patients who found out, because many of us, myself included, just felt miserable all of a sudden, and this was correlated to getting a refill of the Armour thyroid medication that many of us take every day in order to survive. There are some of us who don’t have thyroids at all because of thyroid surgery, and others who’ve had their thyroids removed because of thyroid cancer. Plus of course, the many other thyroid patients who are hypothyroid and or have autoimmune thyroid disease like Hashimotos, and who need thyroid medication each day to feel well.
My personal opinion is that Armour has not been changed back to the original, but note that’s ONLY an opinion. And I am not basing this on any fact–because I personally am not taking Armour thyroid any more and I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking it again, for mysel because of what happened the last time. Additionally, I would imagine that if it were back to the “old” formula, that we would be getting more posts saying how good people felt, instead of the same posts about side effects similar to what you posted.
When someone writes in and asks for feedback on Armour Thyroid, if they’re writing in and they’re doing well on it. Let’s say for example, their Free T3 and Free T4 labs are in good ranges, their TSH is not elevated, and they FEEL well, then I can’t really find any reason for them to discuss changing medications with their doctor. If however, they write in, and they feel awful, their labs are not in good ranges, and they are having side effects that they weren’t having before starting the thyroid meds, then this is a great time for them to go to their doctor and discuss options.
I hope that helps you Kris. Thanks for joining our thyroid discussion group, and please let us know how you’re doing.
Thyroid Questions: Will Get Caught Up Today
Hi everyone, Just wanted to give you all an update. I’ve had a family member in the hospital. Things are settling down, finally, and everything’s ok, but that’s why I’ve been a bit back logged with answering some of your questions. I went through training to help out more here…and then had to be away from my computer more than I wanted to be….which was a bummer.
We’ve had some other patients jump in and help out, which is always most appreciated, but if you haven’t had a response to your question yet…hang in there. I’m not working today so I am working hard to get caught up, and thanks for your patience!
Re: Update on Nature-Throid
Hi Bri, just wanted to thank you for your post regarding your success switching from Armour to NatureThroid. It’s really great to receive feedback like this—specially when it’s good news!
I’m glad that you’re feeling better:-)
Although any feedback is welcome, so that any other patient who has comments good or bad about Armour, NatureThroid or whatever other medication you’re using, please post your thoughts because it helps other thyroid patients so much when we all share our experiences!
Re: Can You Do Anything About Hashimotos?
Hi Kellie, Thanks for your Thyroid Question. Yes, there are options for Hashimotos Patients –other than just simply waiting for your thyroid to be destroyed. Can you post some additional information so that someone here may be able to give you some suggestions on things to discuss with your physician? Or sorry to say this, maybe you may be interviewing some other doctors so that you are working with someone who can give you more options than telling you there’s nothing to be done:-)
Here’s the questions that would be helpful to know:
1. You said you were recently diagnosed. How recently?
2. Do you have copies of your lab results?
3. If you have your labs, what were your results for your Free T3, Free T4, and TSH
4. What were your Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody Results (TPO) Antibodies ?
5. Did they test your Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TG) Antibodies? If so, results?
Furthermore, did you have your Ferritin, Vitamin D3, or B12 tested? If so, please list those results?
Are you taking any multivitamins or supplements now?
Finally, what are your symptoms? I know you mentioned fatigue, what other symptoms are bothering you the most? Is there anything that you’re currently doing that helps any of your symptoms, even slightly?
Hashimotos question for anyone who could help. I’m a newly diagnosed Hashimotos patient, and was wondering if other people who had Hashimotos were told that the only thing to do about it was just to “wait”. I have had more fatigue in the past 6 months than I think I’ve had in my entire life. Is it really true that there is nothing I could possibly do to help myself feel better? It’s very discouraging and depressing, and I wasn’t reassured by my doctor’s visit at all. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know. Thank you for listening.
Switching from Armour Thyroid Too! Bri, I’m so glad that you posted this. I’ve gone back and forth and agonized over what to do. Armour used to work sooooooo well for me. I felt like a million bucks and lost all the extra weight that I gained from being hypothyroid, then poof it seemed like it just stopped working. I was afraid to try anything else, but I think I will ask my doctor for a prescription of the NatureThroid and see what she says. I’m glad that you’re having success with it!
Having Success with NatureThroid: For Bri
Hi Bri, Whoooohooooo that’s awesome. So psyched that the NatureThroid is working for you. Maybe when you get your labs done next you can post them here for feedback. It’s possible if you’re still a bit groggy that your dose could be adjusted, but of course, speak to your doctor about that. Sometimes if you have a cool doc, you can call their office and tell them that you’re feeling better, but still a bit tired and see if they’d ok for you to take about 1/4 of a grain more. Many will do this depending upon your history and symptoms.
But very very good news and thank you for answering. I always wonder when people change from Armour to NatureThroid how they are doing afterwards!!!
Carin- I’m doing much better! Still a little tired and groggy feeling, but much better! I’m taking the whole dose in the morning under the tongue with honey and letting it dissolve, and taking zinc, magnesium, selenium and a B complex supplement every morning with breakfast. Overall, SO SO happy to be back on nature-throid! Thanks for asking
Hello. I just discovered this website and have just read most comments. I started a month ago on Armour Thyroid (1GR/60mg) a day. I am distressed to see that it must be the reformulated product I am using. I am going to try the pill crush/honey method (thank you), but as I am new to this, i have a few questions to ask. Since I started, I have had an almost constant headache (is that normal?) and also, I have what I can only call “hot flashes” all day and night. They are similar to my premenopausal ones (which I had found relief from) so I will be profusely sweating and then shortly thereafter, cold again (very annoying !
I see that one person stated that the “old” Armour was back, is that true? Sincerest thanks for all your comments (it’s nice to know I am not alone) and for any assistance you can give me.
Bri, Was wondering how the NatureThroid was going at this stage for you. Any updates? I know the last time you wrote in you said that it had only been a few days and you weren’t feeling too much better. Hoping that’s changed, and just wanted to say “hi” and to see if if you felt better yet. Changing medications is always such a pain. Sometimes you have to adjust the amount you’re taking, but was wondering how it was going for you.
Thanks Annie for your help. I just don’t feel like lowering my Naturethroid is a good idea. Reading all this info tells me I need to learn more about this so I have something to say when my doctor tells me these things. I never knew that we had to be the ones to educate the doctors. Having you tell me that about the pituitary really helps put this into context. My mom had thyroid disease and I’m afraid now that I’m learning more that she was most likely undermedicated for years.
Also, great info on the insurance and coding. I’m so glad that a “billing nerd” like you is in this group! Have a great evening:-)
Hi Gloria – I am brand new to this group just recently starting this whirlwind but reading and absorbing volumes of information. I am also afraid that when my next TSH comes in my doctor will knee-jerk and want to cut it back (right now I am at 1.6 on TSH which is why I was never properly diagnosed)
This is a sign to me that the MD does not understand the uselessness of the TSH number. All it means is that your pituitary is not sending the signal to produce more TSH – and why should it? You are taking it orally so naturally this number is going to drop as you take the meds and the signal to produce TSH is no longer sent. Its your Free numbers that should drive your dosage – not the total. You, unfortunately, are going to have to educate this doctor yourself – or find one who understands which lab value to focus on.
Before you Get Compounded Thyroid: What to Know
Hi Wanda, thanks for your great question about compounding thyroid medication. It’s something that’s actually asked quite a lot and important for all thyroid patients to understand if anyone is either on or considering compounded medications.
What Is Compounded Thyroid Medication? Compounded thyroid medication is made by a compounding pharmacy. These pharmacies can customize a particular medication, including thyroid to your doctor’s specifications. So instead of using the standard T3/T4 compilation that’s in the thyroid medicines that you can purchase over the counter, any of the amounts of T3 or T4 can be customized by the compounding pharmacy.
Now, there are a few things to be aware of with regards to thyroid compounding:
Just because you’re on compounded doesn’t mean that you’re getting natural dessicated thyroid hormone, you can be on a T3/T4 combination that is nothing more than synthetic thyroid medication and Cytomel, but it is in a compounded form. Your physician could also order your compounded thyroid medication to be made with natural desiccated thyroid powder.
Many patients ask me how to ask their physician to write the medication, so here you go.
How Should My Doctor Write My Natural Dessicated Thyroid Hormone Prescription if I’m using a Compounding Pharmacy to Get it Filled?
Your doctor should write the prescription like this:
“Compounded natural dessicated thyroid capsules” You can’t put a brand name on a compouned prescription, for example, your doctor should not write Armour thyroid compounded, or Nature-Throid compounded but rather they should write
“Compounded Natural Dessicated Thyroid Capsules”
Can Fillers Be an Issue when using Natural Dessicated Thyroid Capsules that Are Compounded?
Yes, the next issue is what type of filler is your compounding pharmacy using. You can call and ask your compounding pharmacy what filler they use as standard, and if you wish for them to use another filler, ask them if they can fill your prescription using alternative fillers.
Here’s some suggestions for you:
* If you’re going to the time and expense of getting natural dessicated thyroid compounded ask them if you can get a filler such as acidophilus or some will use olive oil, to help prevent any issues with absorption.
Cost: There’s no way around it, bottom line is that compounded thyroid medications will cost more than you purchasing one of the thyroid medications that is available through a ready made medication. But for some patients it can be an option if the other thyroid medications haven’t worked well for them. In some cases, however, patients may actually do better while on the ready made medications as opposed to the compounded version. Every body’s different, so don’t despair if you’ve tried one type of thyroid medication and it didn’t work for you. The key towards healing and feeling your best with a thyroid diagnosis is to be an informed patient, and to be willing to make adjustments in your thyroid medications both in dosages and possibly in thyroid medication types.
But knowing a little more about compounded thyroid meds should help you not only make the best choice for yourself, but to understand and ask questions about exactly what’s in your compounded thyroid medication. It’s your body, and your life, so find out what you’re taking if your using a compounded medication.
TSH Supressed on Natural Thryroid, doctor wants me to lower dose. What should I do? Hi everyone, I’m in a bit of a dilemma here and could use some help. My latest thyroid labs came back and I’m going to post them here:
TSH < 0.01 Range (0.30-5.00)
Free T3 2.4 Range (2.2-5.0)
Free T3 0.8 Range (.07-1.7)
My doctor says I must lower my Naturethroid dose by .25 mg because my TSH is too low. I don't feel hyperthyroid, my afternoon temps are good, and I still feel fatigued. I'm afraid to lower my medication because I just don't feel like I'm getting enough. Any ideas?
Compounded Thyroid question for your thyroid group
I’m wondering if anyone can help me with a question on componded thyroid medication. When someone says they’re on T3/T4 compounded what exactly does that mean?
Thyroid Antibodies Question – For Cynthia B
Hi Cynthia, welcome to our discussion on Hashimotos, Thyroid problems and everything in between! We’re glad you’re here, and thanks for posting your question.
First, as you probably know already there are lots of complaints with Synthroid which is a synthetic thyroid medication and only has T4 in it. Some doctors, old school types especially may have been taught that it was acceptable to prescribe only a synthetic thyroid medication that has T4 and let the body convert it into T3. Unfortunately, if you have a thyroid disorder, most of the time your body may not do a great job of converting the inactive form of the thyroid hormone which is the T4 into the active form T3 which your body can use. When this happens, you get the symptoms you’re describing: poor memory, lack of concentration, hair loss, sleep problems, dry skin, weight gain, fatigue etc.
It’s great that you have found a new doctor and that you’re now starting on compounded T3/T4. I’ll answer your questions about the antibodies but I have a few questions for you:-)
1. When you say your new doctor has you on compounded T3/T4 can you please call your pharmacy directly tomorrow and ask to speak to a pharmacist. Then ask them specifically what type of compounded T3/T4 they are using. Are they using natural dessicated thyroid hormone to compound both your T3 and T4 or something else?
Also ask the pharmacy exactly what types of fillers they are using in the compounded meds.
Finally, find out exactly what dose you are being given.
2. Then please post the exact numbers along with ranges for your T3, T4, and your thyroid antibodies. This way either I or one of the other volunteers can give you better information on what your labs mean.
Having high thyroid antibodies with the other lab ranges that you’re describing along with the symptoms is a good indication that you may likely have something called Hashimotos Disease, which is an auto-immune condition of the thyroid gland. In Hashimotos, what happens is that labs will fluctuate from day to day, meaning that one day your labs may look fine, other days you may be severely hypothyroid. Eventually the thyroid is completely destroyed and patients are dependent upon thyroid hormone. However, this process can be slowed and sometimes slowed down substantially if you are on the right dose of your replacement hormones.
The suggested way to help treat this is to make sure that you’re on an adequate amount of thyroid replacement hormone, and for you, definitely the Free T3 and Free T4 would be something to stay on and/or discuss with another doctor if you change docs again. For many patients they find that their antibodies will come down if they are on an adequate dose of thyroid hormone. The TSH should be low and su
Some people also do well using Naturethroid, which you can get either locally, normally available in many areas at Walgreens, or there is a mail order pharmacy in AZ which has always in the past had it in stock and can ship it to you.
I would absolutely question if you are on an adequate dose right now on your compounded med. Having your lab results posted will be helpful as a means for giving you additional info to discuss with your doctor. And if you are on enough replacement hormone you should start feeling better fairly quickly. Sometimes within a few days, but this will only be if you are on enough replacement dose, and the fillers aren’t interfering with the absorption of the med, and if the compounded is the best choice for you. Don’t worry too much about this right now, if you post your labs, we can take things one step at a time and explain each step for you. The good news is that now you found out that there is an issue and you can start feeling better!
Other tests that are also very useful, please post your results if you have them:
Ferritin, along with Serum Iron and/or a full iron panel
Vitamin D (25 Hydroxy)
If you’ve had your Vitamin B12 tested, please list the results also
I’ll check our docs list for you tomorrow and will see if we have anyone else from Atlanta who has recommended a good thyroid doctor in that area.
Thanks again for comments and for your question. It helps a lot of others who have thyroid disorders to see that they aren’t the only ones out there with similar issues.
- Bethanie
Wow! What a wonderful website – I’m so glad I found all of you. I’ve been on Synthroid (.15) for about 25 years. For the last several years, my memory is shot and I can’t seem to concentrate…loss of hair, insomnia, dry skin, overweight, lack of energy, etc., etc. Quite frankly, I am miserable.
I have gone to a new doctor and she just started me on a compounded T3/T4. I’ve never had T3 and have very high hopes. My question is about the TPO Antibodies (Thyroid Perioxidase Antibodies) test results. My TPO labs are high – and my TSH is actually low for the first time. Free T3 and T4 are “in the normal range” but at the very bottom. What does this mean and do you think my new compounding prescription will help me? How long will it take for me to notice a difference.
I live in the Atlanta area so if any of you know of great thyroid doctors, I’d love to know about them. I have read all of these messages and feel for all of you.
Many thanks for your time!
Preparing for Your Doctor’s Appointment for a Thyroid Visit: Patty, this is for you!
Welcome to our thyroid discussion first of all. We are a group of fellow thyroid patients who give support, encouragement and sharing of information on all types of thyroid disorders. We’re glad you’re here.
Now, I saw in your comment that you’re doctor’s appointment is on Monday. Do you have a copy of your last thyroid labs? If not, this is the first thing you should get. If your appointment is for later in the day call and ask them to fax you a copy of them and then post your labs here along with the lab ranges.
The problem with having some doctor call you and tell you your dose is too high, is that in many instances, physicians are not doing the correct thyroid testing. This may not be the case with your doctor, but in many cases, this is the case.
Most of us here on this board take a list of labs we want done into our doctor’s appointments. We don’t assume that the doctor will order the right tests because in our experience–most of them don’t.
Here are the labs that we write down on a sheet of paper or type up and bring in to ask our doctor’s to order:
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Serum Iron and FERRITIN, (if they will do it the Best is a total iron panel along with Ferritin) if Not, the next best is just a serum iron and ferritin level
If you’ve never been tested for thyroid antibodies you would also need
TPO Antibodies (Thyroid Perioxidase Antibodies)
TG Antibodies (Thyroglobulin Antibodies)
Your TSH is way, way, too high, which means you need more thyroid medication NOT Less. If your doctor is going only by the TSH they need to read Dr. Shames book, or you can get a copy and bring it with you to your next appointment (after Monday)
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/thyroidbook
In terms of the natural dessicated thyroid hormones: Armour is just one brand, you can also ask for
Naturethroid instead. Most are doing better on Naturethroid, which is just a different brand of natural dessicated thyroid hormone. The new Armour is causing many to become hypothyroid, so if I were just switching meds I would probably ask for Naturethroid instead of Armour.
Depending upon what your Free T3 is you may also need Cytomel along with the natural thyroid: either Naturethroid or Armour.
Best thing is to post your labs if you have them, if you don’t ask for the proper labs to be tested. If this doctor won’t properly test your thyroid and you need help with finding a doctor, let me know what city you are located in and I’ll check our list to see if we have any doctors that other members have recommended.
Good luck Patty, thanks for your question, and please let us know if we can help further.
Hello, my dr tested my thyroid in july and said it was too high so she prescribed a lower dose, much lower. I was on .112mg and she put me on 25mg. In a couple days I was out of it. So difficult to function. I have Hashimotos. Talked with a friend and said I should be on a higher dose to get it to come down. I’ve been on a rollercoaster ride for the past month. Can’t find a thyroid dr that will take medicare with a supplement ins. I see my dr again this monday, I want to take Armour as I’ve tried them all but this over the years. any help will be greatly appreciated. My tsh was 5.9 as last test. thanks
Julia, you’re not alone! it’s great to have forums like this so you can see that so many other people are feeling the same way as you. i hope you can get on the nature-throid soon. i felt a lot better on it, and i bet you will too.
Carin- this is only day two of being back on nature-throid, and so far i’m not feeling that much better. i’ve been dissolving them under my tongue with honey. i hope to be feeling better in the next few days. i’m sick of all these hypo symptoms!
Another Hashimotos Thyroiditis question: What type of doctor should I go to if I suspect I could have Hashimotos Thyroiditis? What is the correct way to diagnose this? Can it run in families? My grandmother I’m told had Hashimotos, and I wonder if I could possibly have it. I know most of you already have a thyroid issue but was hoping I could get some help with what to do if I think I have a thyroid problem? Thanks
Bri,
I just may order the NatureThroid. My pharmacy doesn’t carry it but I was intrigued by your being able to get it from the pharmacy in Arizona. I will ask my doctor next week if I can have a prescription for the NatureThroid and maybe then we can compare notes to see if we’re both doing better!
It’s really nice to have all this help and support. Thank you Bri for taking the time to write back to me and for suggesting that I change my thyroid med. It’s been a nightmare with the Armour and I was beginning to think that this was the way I would feel forever.
Bri, so glad your NatureThroid came so quickly. That’s fantastic news. And I’m so glad you were pleased with Clark’s. They have been a great help for me, especially when I was panicked that I would run out of thyroid medicine. It’s nice to know that there’s still some very good companies out there that provide good customer service, and I think that they are one of them!
Please update here to let me know how quickly you start feeling better on the NatureThroid. I don’t really see the point with folks staying on the new Armour if it doesn’t work well for them, and you can try something that may work a whole lot better!
Appreciate your kind words Bri and the update…can’t wait to hear how it goes with the NatureThroid for you. Keep in mind that some are having really good luck with the pill crushing and adding a bit of honey!
- Carin
Julia- you should definitely try switching to nature-throid. I have been on both armour and nature-throid.. i had a very negative experience with the new armour. hair loss, dry skin, unbelieveable brain fog. i had none of this with nature-throid.
Carin- my nature-throid came in the mail yesterday! i am so excited to be back on it, and can’t wait to get this armour out of my system. Clark’s was awesome too. thanks again
Barbara,
Welcome to our thyroid group. We are a group of thyroid patients who support each other and offer resources to help get on the road to recovery in spite of our thyroid issues:-)
Now onto your question, the first thing I would do is for you to look at your most recent lab results. Hypothyroidism can cause muscle cramping and pain, so get a copy of your labs first and review them. If you need help on understanding what your labs mean, just post the results here along with the ranges and one of us will take a look for you and offer some feedback.
Additionally, I would think about add calcium/magnesium before bedtime to see if that helps minimize your cramps. the best type of magnesium for absorption is magnesium gluconate. Don’t use magnesium oxylate as it’s too difficult to absorb and harder on your stomach.
Make sure you’re drinking enough water. I don’t know where you’re from, but this summertime heat has been intense this year for many cities in the US. Dehydration can cause cramping and sometimes in the summer, by the time we get thirsty, we’re already dehydrated.
Finally, I love coconut water. It’s a great electrolyte drink, can reduce cramping and is used by marathon runners both in training and post race recovery.
Here’s an article which can tell you more about it.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/health-e-living/whats-the-electrolyte-that-can-help-you-exercise-longer-and-recover-faster
Let me know if you have other questions and if we can help with your labs, just post them for feedback. We’re here to help!
I had the same thing happen to me with the new formula of Armour. I had my Ft3, Ft4, TSH, and Reverse T3 tested in the morning. It was a fasting blood draw, and I didn’t take my thyroid medicine on the morning of the draw. What happened to me was that my Reverse T3 was sky high. So something about the new Armour wasn’t allowing the thyroid medicine to get into my cells. Thus, that explained my previously “good” results when my doctor only tested the TSH, Free t3, and Free t4 and my labs were “perfect” he said.
So all this time I’ve been really hypothyroid because I didn’t have the Reverse T3 tested. Now, I’m taking only T3 to see if I can get the Reverse T3 levels down.
I’m on the new Armour and am having trouble. Getting lots of muscle/body aches. My hair is falling out, my throat is always sore, and I’m having trouble concentrating. Brain fog doesn’t even describe it adequately. My doctor put me on compounded right before the Armour and that was even worse. Should I try the Naturethroid?
Renee, My Hashimotos was ignored by my doctors…about 5 different ones. I kept telling them that my neck hurt all the time, that I was having trouble breathing, and that I was waking up at night feeling like I was choking. They all pretty much said that it wasn’t possible to have pain with thyroid issues and acted like it was all in my head. About 7 months later I had to have surgery to remove a thyroid gland that had grown so much that I had damage to my vocal cords when the surgeon removed it. I was so angry and disgusted at how I had been treated. Now I find out that if my thyroid medication had been adjusted, there was a possibility that the Hashimotos attack could have been slowed or stopped. So I agree with you that it is something that should be addressed right away. I got my best help from a very good thyroid surgeon who examined my neck and told me that the thyroid had to come out right away. My family practice doctors were not concerned and left me in a “watch and wait” mode for way too long.
Renee, Hashimotos can be a very frightening diagnosis to get and even more frightening to know your symptoms are getting worse. I’m going to send you the physician list that we have for Virginia docs that other thyroid patients have sent in. Keep in mind we cannot recommend anyone specifically and haven’t checked them out personally, but it may help give you a start on which doctors to call so that you can interview them directly to see if they may be a good fit for you.
In the meantime, do you have labs that you could post? My Hashimotos also progressed and one thing that helped was to increase my thyroid medication because when my thyroid medicine was too low, the antibodies present continued to cause attack after attack if my TSH wasn’t totally supressed. Also selenium can help with antibodies and the attacks of Hashimotos.
Let me know if you want a list of some of the labs you should ask for if you need help with a list to bring to your new doctor. Good Luck and please keep in touch.
I have Hashimotos thyroiditis and I’m afraid my symptoms are getting worse. Not suprisingly, I have weight gain, but my breathing is also beginning to be affected. Blood pressure and pulse are also low, and it seems like I can’t get a deep breath when I breathe, so I have extremely shallow breathing. For the past 22 years my cholesterol has always been excellent–now it’s high. And I have not changed my eating habits. Can anyone recommend a good doctor in the Virginia area who may know how to treat Hashimotos?
Does anyone get really bad leg cramps since your thyroid condition was diagnosed? I am 43 years old and try to stay hydrated and eat bananas etc for the potassium. But I am getting awakened during the night with very bad leg cramps and this seems to be happening more frequently.
Could this be related to my hypothyroidism and if so, what could be done to help?
Re: How to Find a good Thyroid Doctor
Hi everyone, I came across this thyroid board and thought I’d stop in to say hello. My name is Camille and I initially was put on Armour about 7 years ago. Like a lot of you, I had to change medicines when the company added the cellulose or added more cellulose should I say. I had the darndnest time finding a good doctor to work with me after this fiasco. My original doctor didn’t think I “should” be having hypo symptoms again, but he had no idea they changed the Armour either. Finally, I was so fed up that I decided to switch doctors. I found an OB/GYN who was an integrative medicine specialist. She also had a good background in nutrition. It was discovered that in addition to my hypothyroid, I also have Hashimotos, Celiac Disease, and Adrenal Fatigue. My OB/GYN is also dealing with my low hormones and finally, I can say I’m having some measure of success.
So anyone looking for a new doctor might want to consider a specialist in Integrative Medicine. Alternatively, the D.O’s, Doctor of Osteopath’s treat more holistically than some of the M.D’s and/or Endocrinologists.
Re: Question on How to Crush Your Thyroid Medicine and Take it Sublingually? Good morning Lori B, I had a hard time with this at first also. When I asked around it seemed like everyone has their own technique. What I do, is crush my tablets, then put them on a spoon. I choose the smallest one that it will fit on without spilling it. Then I put the spoon into my mouth on one of the cheek sides. For some reason it’s easier for me to hold the spoon in my right hand and place it on the left side of my cheek so that it is as close to the lower gum area as possible. But if you can’t get it in the lower cheek area, anywhere on the side of the cheek area is ok. Some try to place it under the tongue, but that’s too hard for me–I find the cheek area works fine.
Only after I get the thyroid medication placed in my side cheek, I put a small drop of honey and put it back on the spoon (that now has no thyroid medicine in it) and put the honey in my mouth last. I just try to place the honey on the side also, so that it can melt with the thyroid medicine. You just have to make sure that you use your lips to make sure that no thyroid medicine comes back out with the spoon! The other way that I’ve heard people add the honey is to take a straw and just put the honey at the end of the straw and then add it to the Armour or thyroid med. Still others must have different honey containers, you know like the ones in retaurants with the little tip, and I guess if they have that kind of honey it’s easier to keep a small personalized bottle of honey only for the purpose of adding one drop to your thyroid meds, and just using the small bottle of honey to place the tip in your mouth and then add the drop. I know you can do this without touching the tip to your mouth, but I just think either the straw or the spoon is easier.
So some thyroid patients, do it like you did and add the honey to the spoon, and then lick it off the spoon but instead of swallowing the thyroid medicine, they place that powder in the side of the mouth or under the tongue. I can’t seem to make this approach work very well for me, because once I add the honey the mixture becomes too difficult to get off the spoon and into the side of my mouth.
If you swallowed your thyroid meds this morning, not to worry, but tomorrow or the next time you take your thyroid meds, maybe try one of these options and see if that helps. I hope I haven’t bored everyone with my very long winded explanation. But I didn’t understand what would work at first either, so I had to invent my own little procedure and it works ok for me. If you come up with something better, please let me know:-)
And I hope this makes sense…if not, please don’t worry about asking for a better explanation.
I wasn’t sure I was doing it right this morning: crushed my Armour, put it on the spoon, drizzle honey over the powdered Armour and suck/lick the spoon. Or should it have been done sublingually?
Hi Lori B, I’m so glad you found out your brand new bottle of Vitamin D does not contain cellulose. That’s a very good thing:-) Regarding cellulose generally the cellulose is included with the medication to make it more solid so that it doesn’t fall apart. But it’s not digestible by humans, and you’re so right…why do companies put this in medications when many of us have enough troubles processing medications and digesting things anyway? Hypothyroid people are known to have issues with digestion…since low thyroid slows everything down, including digestion, metabolism, then getting supplements and meds without fillers or additives is really important.
Furthermore, for anyone with Hashimotos, which is immune system driven, when you have all the fillers etc, sometimes it can cause reactions for certain people. Most medicines do contain some kind of filler, that’s one positive about having compounded meds, if the pharmacy will use something other than cellulose. Some pharmacies use Acidophilus as filler for their natural dessicated thyroid meds, which usually works great, but others I’ve heard are using cellulose which kind of defeats the purpose of getting a compounded med. Geez…. My budget can’t really stand the compounded, so my way of getting around some of this is to crush the tablets, and then the honey in conjunction with this makes things more absorbable in my system. Hopefully that makes sense!
Great article, by the way, thanks a million for posting it!
Big Pharma knows a lot of things IMO, but there’s no incentive for people to stay well is there? I mean the more we’re sick and tired, the more things they can sell us right? A pill for this, then a pill for that, and then take a pill for the side effects of this and that.. It could go on and on. I just heard on 60 minutes last week that there are really no companies investing in new antibiotics — which we desperately need right now. With the emergence of some new highly resistant super bugs–we’re all vulnerable to these things in the future. Trouble is no company wants to invest the time/research/funds into new antibiotics because one only has to take them generally 7, 10, or 14 days. Unlike other medications like diabetes meds, or cardiac meds that you have to take every day. Of course, our thyroid meds the natural ones are pretty affordable–not big profit makers unless you do compounded. So no one is very interested in tweaking the formula to help us, guess we have to figure things out like crushing the tabs, and the honey on our own.
Thanks again for the great share, and I’ll get off my soapbox now:-) Take Care!
Adrian,
Regarding Thyroid Testing, I forgot to mention that your sister should not take her thyroid meds on the morning of her blood draw. And it is best to fast, (even though docs will not always know to tell you this) but there is some variability in TSH test results in non-fasting, so I always fast whenever I have my thyroid blood tests done, and I never take thyroid medication on the morning of my testing. I just usually take my thyroid medication along and as soon as my blood has been drawn, I’ll then take my thyroid meds. Hope that helps.
Bethanie….Hi! I made a mistake with the D3…I re-read the label, and it does not have cellulose *whew* it’s the other supplement that has it. Cellulose is the coating or covering of the supplement or mixed in with the supplement? It says on the supplement label: “Cellulose, Gelatin Capsule and Butcher’s Broom (root)” I’m confused! LOL
As for the link, it worked for me….maybe I can copy and paste the article?
“Excessive fluid retention related to cellulose ingestion: Studies on two patients:
Department of Internal Medicine, Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, Calif USA.
White Memorial Medical Center, Los Angeles, Calif. USA.
Received 13 March 1969.
Available online 12 April 2004.
Abstract
Two female patients ages 35 and 31 years who had chief complaints of marked changes in weight with excess fluid retention were observed to remain edema-free (patient M.H.) for over 5 weeks on a low cellulose diet and (patient E.H.) for 9 weeks on a cellulose-free diet, with water intake unrestricted and sodium intake 90–160 mEq./day. The administration of short-chained methylcellulose (Cologel® 30 ml. three times a day) resulted in a 14-lb. weight gain in 48 hours in patient M.H. and an 8-lb. weight gain in 24 hours in patient E.H. The excess fluid disappeared by 72 hours after the last dose of Cologel. Fluid retention was demonstrated on two occasions in both patients at different phases of the menstrual cycle. At the peak of fluid retention, the patients had visual aberrations, mental cloudiness, and poor coordination of some skeletal muscle actions. During administration of Cologel there was sodium and water retention, a 5–8 mOsm/Kg. increase in serum osmolality, and a 25–75 per cent decrease in urinary aldosterone excretion rate. Fluid retention could be prevented in patient E.H. on a selective diet containing some cellulose by restricting sodium to 25 mEq./day, or by restricting water intake to 500 ml./day. Patient E.H. had a 5-fold greater than normal increase in plasma renin activity in response to sodium restriction. Aldosterone excretion rate increased from 8.9 to Image with 3–4 days of sodium restriction. Free water clearance in patient E.H. was 25–50 per cent of normal. Reinstitution of cellulose-containing foods in the diet resulted in a return of the problem of fluid retention.
Supported by USPHS Grants HE-04745 and HE-11031.
Milton G. Crane, M.D.: Research Professor of Medicine, Loma Linda University School of Medicine, Loma Linda, Calif.: USPHS Carrer Development Awardee K3-HE-7627.
John J. Harris, M.D.: Associate Professor of Medicine, Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, Calif.
Raymond Herber, M.D.: Assistant Professor of Medicine, Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, Calif.
Stewart Shankel, M.D.: Assistant Professor of Medicine, Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, Calif.
Norman Specht, M.D.: Clinical Professor of Medicine, Loma Linda University, White Memorial Medical Center, Los Angeles, Calif.
so you see….putting cellulose into medications and supplements, triggers fluid retention, and fast weight gain. makes perfect sense, doesn’t it..? The big pharma KNEW this and this is why I’m wondering why every medication, including Armour I take makes me gain weight!
Why Take Your Thyroid Medication in the Morning? Hello Lori B, thanks for the great question about why it’s important to take your thyroid medication in the a.m instead of at night. Unless your a night shift worker, and your morning is in the evening, then you want to take your thyroid medication when you wake up in the morning so that you’ll get the most benefit from it. Let me explain further. Especially if you are taking a natural dessicated thyroid hormone medicine like Armour, Nature-Throid and/or Erfa Thyroid from Canada (which some say is like the old Armour), then those types of medications contain T3, T4, T2, and T1, which most closely resembles what your own thyroid would produce — if it were working properly.
The T3 in the thyroid medicine is the most “active” form of the thyroid hormone, T4 in medications and in your body is converted over to T3 which is the active form. The 1/2 life of T3 is about 6 hours, which means that it stays in your body about that long, and after taking the thyroid hormone in the morning, most people feel more energized, are able to think more clearly etc. Taking it at bedtime for most, may result in not being able to sleep, or not being able to sleep as soundly. Most will have too much energy taking it at night…unless you’re on shifts, and then you’d want to take it during “your own morning time” which may be in the afternoon if you’re working all night.
Some people split their thyroid hormone doses, taking 1/2 in the morning, and 1/2 in the early afternoon (about 6 hours apart from their morning dose). Others find that they feel better taking the whole dose in the morning instead of splitting it. It’s something you have to tweak for yourself and see what works best for you.
And on your D3 — cellulose.. Uggggh, how disappointing, some stores will allow you to return even a partially used bottle if you are dissatisfied.
I like the liquid D3 better, mine is 2000 iu/ for one drop. This way your body doesn’t have to do the work to try to break a tablet down, the liquid most definitely is more easily absorbed. 2nd choice if you don’t want to do liquid D3 is to at least get a gelatin capsule. These are again, more easily broken down by the body instead of the tablets, but first choice is the liquid.
Thanks again for the really good question, and let us know if we can help further. Enjoy your weekend!
P.S. Hey Lori the link that you sent went to an error page. When you have time if you want to resend it, then just reply to this message with the correct link please. Thank You!
crushing the new armour with honey and doing it sublingually….does it have to be done in the morning? why not at night?
also, I’m taking D3 and wouldn’t you know it….cellulose was the first ingredient on the list! *headdesk* just brought it last week and now I’ve got 118 pills left to take. oy. from now on, I’ll make sure to read the label to make sure that cellulose isn’t in the list.
Thyroid ladies must always stick together:-) You’re very welcome Adrian, and I’m just helping out because when I learned I had thyroid disease someone helped me. When I read the emails from everyone, especially if you’re just starting out, I remember how overwhelming it was for me to try to get back to the old way where I was functioning like a human being. The thyroid disease came over me like a dark cloud especially when I was taking the Syncrap (I mean Synthroid- LOL).
Regarding your sister’s labs, her TSH is way too high. Read some of the other posts here where it is explained that there are some who think the TSH should be at a max of 2.5, while other specialists are saying 2.0 is going to be the new cutoff they believe at some point in the future. With Hashimotos though, some specialists as well as many, many patients, including myself, don’t feel ok unless their TSH is below 1.0. There’s something about the attack on the thyroid gland by the antibodies that can worsen it unless you keep the TSH supressed. Free T3 should be higher, it should be upper end of the normal, and her free T4 isn’t too bad, but it would be ok to have that come up as well with the proper medication and treatment.
So for your question as to what other labs.
Make sure she gets a complete Iron panel along with a ferritin
Also, Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy
and Vitamin B12 wouldn’t hurt either
What medication is she on now? What thyroid meds has she tried?
Ellen, thanks for your kindess. It’s nice to know that there are other thyroid patients whom I can reach out to. I’m afraid our doctor hasn’t been so helpful. Here’s a summary of my sister’s labs:
TSH 4.45 (.40-42)
Free T3 261 (230-420)
Free T4 1.05 (.71-1.85)
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 890 (<35)
Thyroglobulin Antibodies <20 (less than 20)
I'd be very thankful for help with these labs knowing what they mean and also if you can suggest any other ones that she should have tested.
Thanks for the great work that you do for thyroid patients!
Adrian, yes I’m sure someone will be happy to review your sister’s labwork and give you some opinions on what to ask for at the doctor’s office regarding testing or taking action on the lab results. My Hashimotos was discovered 5 years after I was treated inadequately with Synthroid for hypothyroidism. In the process I had a goiter which got so large that eventually I needed surgery on it. My feeling is that if it was treated earlier and more approrpriately with both T3 and T4 hormones like there are in the natural thyroid medicines that maybe, just maybe I wouldn’t have lost my thyroid so soon. We’re not doctors here obviously but there are so many kind thyroid patients here who share their experiences so that hopefully others won’t have to go for years being misdiagnosed, or not treated adequately.
We think my sister may have Hashimotos. She has extreme exhaustion, dry skin, dry eyes, muscle weakness, irritable bowel, muscle aches among other things. If I post her labs do you think I could get some feedback on what to do?
Bri, My pleasure. I’m so glad that worked out for you, and I can’t wait to hear how you feel on the NatureThroid!
Carin.. thanks again! I called Clarke’s and got nature-throid ordered! I am literally ecstatic and so excited to not have to take armour anymore
Adrenals and Thyroid Question: Hi everyone, my name is Michelle and unfortunately, I too have Hashimotos and hypothyroid. What is going on that there are so many darn thyroid problems? Anyway, I saw my Physician Assistant this week for a med checkup and he said that my adrenals are stressed and that I should start on something to support the adrenals. We did an adrenal test and found this out. I had never heard of this as it’s something new to me, but I started researching and found that sometimes people use Licorice to support their adrenals. Is this an ok thing to try do you think? Anyone here used Licorice for their adrenal glands and if so did it work? I thought all I needed to worry about was the thyroid, now I find out that the list gets larger of things I should fix.
Hey Bri,
Glad to help. I don’t know if Clarke’s Pharmacy has a website, I just call them directly to place my order. There are two options for ordering your medications.
1. If your pharmacy that had your original prescription will call Clarke’s for you to transfer the prescription to them, then you can get your order processed without waiting for your doctor’s office to be open. This is assuming that you have refills left on the prescription that you were unable to get filled locally.
Most of the time, pharmacies are very willing to help you, especially if they can’t fill your order locally and it’s something like thyroid medication that you need every day.
2. If for some reason you don’t have refills on your other prescription left, then of course, you can wait for your doctor’s office to be open and just have your doctor call in your prescription to Clarke’s.
I don’t know if they have a website, they’re an Arizona pharmacy that is in the very same city as the Nature-Throid manufacturer, which is why, I think that Clarke’s always has the Nature-Throid in stock.
Anyway, here’s the website for Nature-Throid http://www.nature-throid.com/contactUs.asp
I got the Clarke’s pharmacy info from them.
Let me know what works out for you Bri!
Have a good weekend.
Carin-
Thanks so much for your response! it was really helpful. What is the process for ordering from Clark’s? I couldn’t find their website. And my doctor’s office is closed today. I assume that I would have to have my doctor call them and send them over my prescription… Thanks again!
Finding a doctor who knows how to Treat Hashimotos or any type of thyroid disorder may be a challenge. The bad news is that sometimes the specialists that thyroid patients are referred to are not very good at helping us find the optimal thyroid medication for us as individuals, nor are they all on the same page unfortunately in terms of how to properly dose and treat thyroid disease. I was sent to an endocrinologist early on in my hypothyroid diagnosis who insisted on not treating me unless my TSH was over 10. Keep in mind that I feel like a walking dead person if my TSH is above 3.0. And I’m not very functional unless it’s less than 1.0 — so initially I was so discouraged that I thought I’d be miserable for the rest of my life. Luckily, I learned that it’s not “one size fits all” when it comes to treating Hashimotos, and that I’d have to do better myself at screening doctors before I even made an appointment.
I mean, I work during the day full time, have 2 kids, plus a cat and I simply don’t have the time, energy or money to pay for a visit only to find out the doctor had no clue had to treat Hashimotos.
So I ask questions up front:
1. I ask does the doctor treat thyroid disease?
2. How many patients does she/he treat?
3. What medications do they prescribe? Are they currently prescribing any natural dessicated thyroid hormones? If yes, which ones?
4. What is their philosophy on dosing? Do they go by the TSH only, or do they also take into account how the patient feels?
5. What Thyroid tests do they routinely run on new patients?
Whew…that was a lot, but I also find that generally, (not always) but generally, like many others here on this board, Doctor of Osteopaths may be better suited to actually listen to me as a patient. I guess in their training they are more holistic, so all patients aren’t just numbers to some of them.
We have so many members here in this thyroid group who are Hashimotos. I would think you’ll probably get lots of responses over the weekend about your question and Hashimotos, Terrie.
Mari, Armour since i’ts been reformulated, has caused a lot of grief among thyroid patients. I was taking it for so many years that it was like brushing my teeth. I didn’t think anything of it and felt so good. Had good energy, ability to workout, and could concentrate. Then, Forest Labs changed the Armour Thyroid. Goodness gracious you wouldn’t believe how much of a change I felt. My head ached daily, sometimes throbbing like a migraine. No energy, hair falling out, bad mood, I was miserable. Finally, one of my co-workers told me about NatureThroid which I started using. Totally night and day change. I’m back to my former happy/healthy self. It wasn’t easy. I had to tweak my dose of the NatureThroid and I follow the advice here and crush it and then add some sugar. Some say to add honey–I prefer just a small amount of sugar and take it sublingually. The iron (ferritin) is also something to check, if your ferritin is too low it can make you feel horrible, and it’s very hard to be able to be on the correct dose.
Do you know what lab tests other than the TSH you’ve had done? If so, and you want some help, feel free to post your labs along with the lab ranges. So many times people go on for months and feel miserable and don’t realize that there are some small changes that could be done to help.
I feel for you though in terms of being so tired it is difficult to know what to do. I was in your shoes a while back.
If there’s anything I can do to help support you or help answer any questions about your labs etc, please let me know.
I am taking 30grm of Armour twice a day.. I have been raging .. not sleeping for at least 6months.. maybe more.. Tired lately, etc.. My last test for TSH was 1.9…
I dropped to 30 grms aday and will be weaning off this medication.. I am sick of it all.. I wish I could find one person who has done the same with good results.
I want to go natural .. work out everyday … in pretty condition for almost 60…
Hi Bri, NatureThroid is normally always available via mail order from Clarke’s Pharmacy in AZ. Most of the time I get mine locally from Walgreens but it’s getting more difficult for my local Walgreens to keep it in stock and so I’ve ordered mine from Clarke’s.
Here’s Clarke’s contact info, and I had to call them today anyway to see if they had stock because I’ll be refilling my prescription tomorrow.
So they do have the NatureThroid in stock because my Walgreens told me they’d have it on Monday of this week, then they said Wednesday, and now it’s one more day later, and the Walgreens still doesn’t have it. So tomorrow I’ll be getting my NatureThroid from Clarke’s.
1. You Can Mail Order the Nature-Throid From Clark’s Pharmacy in Carefree Arizona
Phone: (480) 488-2007. Today, 8/12/2010 they have the 65 mg otherwise known as the 1 grain supply of the Nature-Throid Tablets in stock and they will process your order and mail it to you.
Pricing:
100 tablets of the 65 mg (1 grain) Nature-Throid : $26.50
500 tablets of the 65 mg (1 grain) Nature-Throid: $132.50
Shipping is a flat rate of $7.00 per shipment below 100.00 and/or 10.00 per shipment above 100.00
Clarke’s Pharmacy
36889 North Tom Darlington Drive
Carefree, AZ 85377
(480) 488-2007
Now, I would ask for them to ship it with an ice pack since it’s summertime if you live in an area where it’s warm. It’s a few dollars extra 2 or 3.00 I believe, but well worth it because the last thing you want is to have your thyroid medication affected by this heat.
Basically, since Armour changed their formulation a lot of patients switched to NatureThroid, so it’s been more difficult to get it sometimes locally.
I can’t take the new Armour—it gave me migraine headaches and heart palpitations, I feel much better on NatureThroid but I have to crush my tablets and add just a drop of honey to them because they changed their formula also!
Hope this helps, and maybe if you have a Walgreens in your city you could check with them first–then if they don’t have it you can always mail order the NatureThroid from AZ.
Glad you joined our thyroid group! If you need help, support, or have any other questions–let us know. That’s what we’re all here for:-)
I have a question. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s when I was 17, and was put on synthroid. I’m now twenty four, and in February 2010 I went on Nature-Throid. I was taking 6 grains a day, in the morning. I was feeling great. But this in July, when I went to refill my prescription, it was unable to be filled. My pharmacy could not get it. I called around to other pharmacies, and they couldn’t get it either. When I asked why, the only response I get is that they are unable to get it from their whole-salers. So I switched to the new Armour and don’t feel as good, I have head aches and feel tired and unable to concentrate… I’ve been taking it sublingually, and even increased my dose.. can any of you tell my why I’m unable to get the Nature-Throid? I live in Virginia. I just don’t understand. Thanks for your help!
How do you find a new doctor who knows how to treat Hashimotos patients or someone with a thyroid issue? It seems like each time I try a new doctor I am told that I am just depressed, or that the symptoms aren’t that bad etc…. How do they know they’re not that bad? I am pretty discouraged at having Hashimotos because I used to feel young and vibrant even though I’m in my 40′s, and now most days I just drag myself out of bed. I don’t think I’m depressed. Yes, feeling this way physically is somewhat depressing but I don’t think taking an anti-depressant medication is the answer. There’s got to be more that I can do instead of just waiting for years until my thyroid is completely destroyed by the Hashimotos. Anyone have any suggestions for me?
Muscle twitching can also be caused by low progesterone. My OB/GYN tested my hormones the last time I went in for my exam and found that my progesterone was too low. I also have Hashimotos and am sensitive to any changes in hormone levels etc. Once I started on the progesterone cream and increased my thyroid medication slightly because my TSH was too high, my muscle twitching has decreased to almost nothing.
Salva, I had severe muscle pain that felt like fibromyalgia when I was diagnosed with Hashimotos. Something that was never tested until I went to the 6th doctor was my Vitamin D level which was also very low. Furthermore, my B12 level was within range, but on the lower end, and finally one very smart doctor told me I needed B12 injections. I now take them once a week and the pain and twitching, along with severe muscle cramping is gone. I do take Vitamin C in the a.m. and Magnesium and Calcium at night because my massage therapist said it would help me–which I think it has.
I hope you find some solutions. It sounds like you have been through so much, and I’ll be sending some good thoughts your way for your next doctor’s appointment to uncover some answers for you.
Hugs,
Alexandra
Salva, Hashimotos is a difficult diagnosis, and there are many of us here who have it, but you shouldn’t have to feel miserable with taking your thyroid medicine. Here’s a few examples just to show you how different brands of medications can make a huge difference in how they work etc.
My husband was also diagnosed with thyroid disease (hypothyroidism) and has been trying to find the right medication.
Med #1: He tried Compounded Levothyroxine and felt awful on it. He had low energy but even more alarming was his mood. He became extremely depressed after only a few days, and I told him to stop taking it and to try something else
Med #2: He tried Armour Thyroid, but it made him all jittery and he said it didn’t make him feel very well. He only stayed on that for a few days and then he changed
Med #3: He tried the Efra Thyroid from Canada: He now takes 1 grain a day and feels great. His energy level is good, there is no jittery feelings, and his mood is very good and back to his normal self.
So I think that getting the medication that is right for you is really important. And that all of us thyroid patients, I have Hashimotos too, need to not just accept feeling badly. If something is not working we need to change it and that includes our doctors:-)
A few things with what you shared:
1. I don’t know how low your ferritin is: what was your result as well as the lab ranges? How much iron and what kind are you taking? Are you taking your iron with at least 1000mg of vitamin C and at least 4 hours away from your thyroid medication, any chocolate, caffeine, or coffee?
But low ferritin can make it very difficult for you to be able to raise your thyroid dose to an appropriate level. So it’s important to treat the ferritin adequately and it sounds like it is already helping you. Just make sure you’re taking a type of ferritin that’s easily absorbed, doesn’t upset your stomach, and with the tips I mentioned above.
2. Re: Your doctor saying the side effects were in your head: This makes me very sad to hear that there are doctors out there who are that dismissive of the very real effects and side effects of these medications. Treating Hashimotos is not easy, and unfortunately, when doctors don’t know how to help us, they revert back to an attitude of “blame the patient.” It’s like if they can’t figure it out it must be that it is all in our heads. Yeah right….thousands upon thousands of letters come in to this site — and all of us need to see mental health professionals? I know it’s not always easy to find another doctor, but I would fire this one immediately.
3. Re: Muscle twitching: This is pretty common in hypothryoidism and in Hashimotos, especially if you are hypothyroid.
Things that can help until you can get your thyroid medication optimized: making sure that you have adequate potassium, calcium and magnesium. A good source for potassium is of course bananas, but one of my new favorites is the plain Coconut Water which has more potassium than a banana and some electrolytes that can help prevent cramping. It’s delicious btw, mixed with a little bit of pineapple juice, no sugar added and is a refreshing summertime drink.
Low Vitamin D can also cause numerous muscle problems. I had pretty severe muscle twitching including my eyes which would drive me crazy prior to having my thyroid removed because of a large goiter. I wouldn’t have needed my thyroid to be removed had any one of my doctors given me an adequate dose of thyroid hormone.
Soaking in a warm bath with Epsom Salts and Lavendar can also help with the muscle twitching, but the root cause for you is probably tied to your being undertreated with your thyroid medication and/or perhaps being on a type of thyroid medication that just is not working out well for you.
Tests you need to have the new doctor run:
TSH
Free T3
Free T4
Reverse T3
Since you already know you have antibodies, I’m not sure if your new doc will want to run them again but if they do, the ones to watch are
TPO Antibodies
TG Antibodies
Also
Ferritin
Vitamin D 25 Hydroxy
If you have labs that have already been done with those results please post your results along with your lab ranges so you can get better feedback on them.
I think with your history and symptoms I would ask the new doctor for either
NatureThroid or the Canadian Thyroid called Efra Thyroid
If you get a prescription for the Canadian type the doctor needs to write the prescription out like this:
Naturally Dessicated Thyroid Hormone (then put your doseage in grains not mg)
NatureThryoid – prescription can also be written in grains
It’s not that unusual to have pretty bad side effects from the synthetic type medication. I have a friend in Nebraska whose labs looked “good” on the Synthroid, but she felt so horrible she didn’t know what to do. Her doctor never tested her for Reverse T3 and she found out hers was sky high which meant that the thyroid medicine she was taking wasn’t reaching her cells. She’s started on NatureThroid and some Cytomel and feels better she says than she has in 10 years.
For you, I would absolutely make sure that your new doctor does the proper testing. Don’t rely on him/her to order the right tests, go in with your own list printed out that you want run. If they want to run extra tests, that’s great, but I don’t leave the doctor’s office until I find out exactly what will be ordered and add my requests to the list for the doc to order.
Since you say your labs are normal when you take the Synthroid, please post the exact amounts along with their ranges. I was told for years my thyroid was normal, but I was not in the optimal range. Small adjustments can make huge differences. You deserve to feel well!
I always tell other patients that unfortunately when we are diagnosed we look to the doctor to run the show, until we realize, we have to be the director of our own show because there are many docs who just don’t know the best way to treat us.
I hope you have good results with your new endo, but frankly my best experience has been with Doctor of Osteopaths, (Family or Adult Practice DO’s) instead of endos. But maybe you’ll have a better one, I would absolutely insist that I get a prescription for NatureThroid or the Canadian Efra.
Some people also say they have good results with the compounded natural thyroid medicine but it can be ridiculously expensive, and like anything else, doesn’t always work for everyone, and it makes a difference what kind of filler your compounding pharmacy uses. If you decide to go the compounded route and need more help just ask.
Welcome to our thyroid group and I know this is a lot of info to process. Please keep in touch and let us know if you have more questions and how your doctors appointment on Friday goes.
Hi,
Three years ago I was diagnosed with Hashimoto hypothyroid condition– TSH was at 15. I absolutely did not have any symptoms of a thyroid condition at the time. I was feeling well and now because of the medication, I am ill most of the time. Initially, I was given 20 mg of Levoxyl per day–after the 3rd day I was in the ER with chest pains. Subsequent cardiac tests were all negative. The bottom line is that I could not tolerate the synthetic drugs and I was put on Armour. I did OK on Armour at the start. After the dose was increased I periodically would have frequent bowel movements that eventually led to intestinal bleeding, fever, and muscle aches. Subsequent GI tests were all negative.
The Dr. switched me to Synthroid (25 mcg 1x per day) and periodically I experienced late at night, frequent bowel problems, anxiety, and insomnia. I finally talked my Dr. into testing my Ferritin level and it is low. I started taking iron and my bowel and insomnia problems got better. The Dr. feels the side effects are all in my head and he suggested I see a mental health professional.
Last month (late May, 2010), a new symptom surfaced–constant muscle twitching in particular at rest in my legs–all day long. My Dr. ran lots of muscle related blood work that was normal. I got a second opinion from a neurologist who diagnosed me with benign fasciculation syndrome probably stemming from the synthroid medication. Last week the muscle twitching got worse and I stopped the medication. It has been now about seven days since I took the medication and the muscle twitching is not gone but slightly improved.
I am scheduled to see a new endo on Friday to see if he can give me a new medication and in general give me his opinion. Has anyone experienced muscle problems related to thyroid medication? i am so sad because of the side effects and I fear that I will not be able to take any type of medicine to correct my hypo problem. When I take the Synthroid regularly, my TSH level and all other thyroid-related levels are normal.
Does anyone have any words of wisdom for me and my difficult case? Thanks.
Crushing Your Thyroid Medication: Michelle and everyone here, I wanted to add something to the helpful info that Luann posted. When I first started with my thyroid medicine I didn’t know the easiest way to crush the tablets. Some people talk about putting the tablets in between 2 spoons and crushing them, but I found this quite messy and more often than not, would “lose” some of the medication.
What I like was a tip from someone else here that uses a pill crusher. There is one that I found out about here that you can get from Walgreens. It is round and blue. I’ll try to take a photo and will post it later for you all, but it’s great. It works as a pill cutter and a pill crusher. And it crushes the tablets so nicely without any mess.
I don’t know the exact reason, but I find that crushing the thyroid tablets makes me feel better, and my labs have improved even staying on the same dose, but just crushing the tabs and adding the little bit of honey that Luann mentioned. I think I read there is something about the sugar that helps the medicine get into the cells or something like that…
Thyroid Medication Tips:
Good morning Michelle, and I’m so happy that your doctor’s appointment went well and that he listened. Here’s some tips that so many of us have found helpful with regards to taking our thyroid meds.
1. Because NatureThroid and Armour have both reformulated recently, sometime the coatings on the tablets makes it harder to break down and process them, so a great way to help the absorption of your thyroid meds is to crush the tablets and take them sublingually and add one very small drop of honey to them. We’ve had thyroid patients report better success with their meds by taking them this way from swallowing the tablets in which case the liver has to break them down and you don’t get the full effect from the medication.
2. If you have antibodies and have had a goiter in the past it’s especially important not to “undertreat” or underdose because for most people, this means that the thyroid is consistently stimulated and having to try to produce thyroid hormone, which can make the goiter grow larger. Many of the thyroid specialists in larger cities are saying to keep the TSH completely suppressed in these cases, which means under 1.0 like they would do with thyroid cancer patients—even though you don’t have cancer.
I think it’s fine to start low on your dose and see how you do, but if you have any of the symptoms of being hypo, then you may want to get the ok from your doctor about adjusting your dose upward if you need to, because with antibodies the other thing that most specialists say is that you can’t really rely on the labs as they fluctuate from day to day, and you must rely on symptoms as well as temperature/pulse and other stats for dosing.
3. Getting one of those old style that looks like a mercury thermometer and taking your temperature 2x-3x a day, but minimum in the morning as soon as you wake up and before you get out of bed and taking it under your arm and leaving the thermometer under your arm for 5 minutes, then at least once in the mid afternoon and then keeping a journal will help you be able to monitor your thyroid dosing and how you’re doing.
4. Next time when you post your labs, if you want any feedback from anyone here on the thyroid group, please post the ranges along with your results. For example: (Just a made up number)
Ferritin 33 (Range 10-291)
TSH 2.5 (Range 1.0-3.50) etc, because each lab’s ranges are different and this is important to know
5. Get copies from your doc of your lab results! Can’t say this enough. Get your own copies for your records. It will prove invaluable to you in the future and allow you to stay on top of things.
Medical Records of so many patients were lost from doctor’s offices during Hurricane Katrina, and then later when some Hurricanes hit Texas. I know Austin’s not on the coast, but I talked with a lady in Austin who had some scans done at ARA in Austin, and they “lost” her results. She has different issues, is dealing with breast cancer, but she told me she wishes she would have gotten copies of her exam on a CD as we always suggest along with the report because her doctors at MD Anderson in Houston could have really used the records/scans to make decisions on her treatment.
6. Selenium can really be helpful to reduce the attacks on the thyroid gland as well. So you may want to think about supplementing with selenium, because with proper treatment, goiter progression and surgery is not inevitable. What I see happen unfortunately in so many cases is that doctors are not aggressive enough in “preventing” the progression of goiters and subsequent attacks, and then surgery becomes necessary.
7. If your doctor didn’t do a ReverseT3 on you, I would definitely ask for that one to be done during your next lab draw.
And the news on your ferritin is very encouraging! I’m happy that you saw results there, and adding in the Vitamin C as well as watching your times when taking it should also help in that respect.
Keep us posted on your progress! Thanks so much for the update on your doctor’s visit.
THANK YOU! to everyone for their kind comments and suggestions!! I was so nervous about what my results would show once I went in to the doctor today and what questions to ask and y’alls comments were very helpful.
The visit went VERY well! The doctor listened to all my concerns, answered all my questions, and really took time to explain in detail. All of my regular blood test came back normal, except for glucose but he wasn’t concerned as I wasn’t fasting and the diabetes test that looks at 3 months of sugar levels came back fine. I was soooooo relieved to find I am not diabetic!! As for my thyroid, the tests came out as follows:
TSH 2.60 — He said it was too high, which I agreed with based on all the symptoms I’ve once again been having. He said he wants to see it at 2.0 or below. In the past, I’ve always felt best at about 1.7.
FREE T4 0.7 — This one was too low as he said it needed to be at around 0.9 or above
FREE T3 3.8 — I believe he said this one was fine, but can’t remember now.
Ferritin 32.9!!! — I was so excited to find it had gone from 3 to almost 33!! in the past year! He did say it needed to be higher, but this was a great start. I’ve gotten some Vitamin C to take with it now as y’all suggested, and hopefully it will be double 33 by this time next year!!
He had no problem with putting me on Nature-Throid and I am excited and a little nervous about starting it tomorrow. Just hoping that I don’t have a relapse of symptoms as my body adjusts to the new levels and as we slowly build to where I need to be. I’m starting off at 1/2 a grain, taking 1/4 in the AM and 1/4 mid-afternoon.
The other confirmation I received from the visit was a suspicion I had about my Hashimoto’s and my remaining left lobe of my thyroid. My throat has been tender and I have periodically been waking up gasping for air as I did when I last had a goiter. He is having me go back for more lab work to test my thyroid antibodies and my Vitamin D and wanted me to have an ultrasound done as he felt nodules on the thyroid. The ultrasound will have to wait till I have better insurance but I am really hoping I don’t have to have another surgery to remove the rest of my thyroid. I’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
Thanks again! I’m sure I’ll have questions as I start my journey on Nature-Throid and look forward to reading what others share on here with their struggles and victories.
Low ferritin can truly make you feel very tired.
“The normal range for ferritin is usually between 30 and 300 mg/dL, but Dr. Ted Friedman, a board certified endocrinologist who specializes in treating challenging patients who have thyroid, pituitary, fatigue or adrenal issues, recommends iron treatment for everyone with a ferritin less than 60 mg/dL. “The goal of treatment is to raise ferritin levels to a value between 70 and 90 mg/dL and is usually achieved with oral iron treatment. Raising ferritin levels to this range may be needed for patients with hypothyroidism to have an optimal response to thyroid hormone treatment”
I wasted about 6 years seeing an endocrinologist in my town who really knew little about thyroid disorders and who didn’t address my low ferritin. Once I raised it and kept it around 80, my life felt more normal and I could participate in activities the way I wanted to.
My TSH was 2.2 and I still feel very very tired. Last week I had my blood work tested and my CBC showed that I was slightly anemic. This week, however I went to a new doc and he ran different tests including the Iron, Folic Acid, B12 and Ferritin, and I was very anemic. There was a study saying that there’s a lot of us thyroid patients who are very low iron and we show a hemoglobin level that can show as high on the CBC because of issues in the blood plasma.
So definitely have your doctor look at the whole picture with regards to your iron. I’ll be starting on the iron supplements tomorrow so I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Before Your Doctor’s Appointment: Hi Michelle, hope I can catch you b-4 you head out for your doctor’s appointment!
I always make a list of the labwork that I want my doctor to run. Unfortunately, if I rely totally on him remembering to do the correct tests, more often than not something is forgotten or left off from the lab slip and I have to go back and do another draw and/or I don’t get the info I need.
I’m not sure what thyroid tests your doctor orders, but here are the tests that I request initially.
Free T3
Free T4
TSH – least important one, but I do it anyway
Reverse T3
Thyroid Antibodies:
(If you’ve never had these tested, you need to test them at least once)
TPO (Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies)
TG (Thyroglobulin Antibodies)
Iron:
Ferritin and complete iron panel
Vitamin D 25 Hydroxy
Others, like hormones can also be tested depending upon your situation, but at least these things are a minimum.
I learned this from Bethanie…she’s helped me sooooo much with my thyroid issues. So I’m passing this onto you:-)
Good luck with your doctor’s appointment!
Michelle, the most important thing I learned about doctors appointments and my thyroid was to make sure that I ask for, and get copies of all my own labs. I used to make the mistake of relying on the nurse to call and tell me everything was “normal” including my ferritin, which was way, way low.
Until I was able to raise my ferritin level, I never felt like I had any energy, and even thinking about exercise made my exhausted:-) Once I got my ferritin level up to around 60, I felt much, much better. One of my symptoms with the low ferritin was shortness of breath, but I don’t really get that anymore, not unless I’m really overexerting myself.
But back to my lab results. I keep my own dated file now with all my copies of labwork, and can refer to it to see how my thyroid labs are doing over time. My vitamin D level was also much too low and my doctor’s office told me it was “normal.” It was very low normal, and I learned that it’s supposed to be 70% of the high normal. This helped my fatigue also when I got my Vitamin D level where it was supposed to be. I have many friends with breast cancer and every one of them had low Vitamin D. Since research is showing how important adequate vitamin D levels are for the immune system, and for prevention of cancers such as breast, and prostate — I knew that I didn’t want my vitamin D level down towards the bottom end of normal.
Hello Michelle,
Welcome to our thyroid group. So glad to have you here:-) There are some other members from Austin Tx who went through some challenges with their thyroid issues. One gal here I believe saw close to 10 different docs who all told her that her thyroid was “fine”. Turns out she had a very large goiter as well that had to be removed because it was obstructing her vocal cords and esophagus!
And I know that recovering from a thyroid surgery–especially the part where you are trying to get the right medications, can be daunting.
Here’s some feedback for you on your questions.
1. Ferritin: What to do if you’re still low: First of all, does the ferritin you are currently taking upset your stomach? I know, silly question, but we have lots of feedback from thyroid patients who aren’t always taking their iron supplements regularly because it makes them feel sick to their stomach.
My personal favorite and one of the iron supplements that many other thyroid patients have recommended is this one here from Amazon
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron
It’s way cheaper if you order it than if you try to buy it locally.
2. Other tips for iron: Make sure and take it 4 hours apart from any thyroid medicine, calcium supplements, chocolate or coffee
I take mine right before bedtime and if you take it with 1000mg of Vitamin C, the Vitamin C helps it to be absorbed by your body
3. If you’re still low, you may need to increase the amount of mg of the iron supplement that you choose to use. How many mg are you taking of iron?
4. I don’t want to alarm you, but it’s a valid question to ask that if you’re still very low to make sure that your medical professionals have ruled out some other type of bleeding issue that could be causing this.
Now, in most cases that I have seen, folks can get their iron up by
A: making sure they’re consistent in taking it
B: taking it with 1000mg of vitamin C
C: Not taking it with calcium, coffee or chocolate (within 4 hours)
D: Making sure they’re on an adequate dose
If any of the above criteria isn’t met, then this could be the reason for staying so low or there could be some source of bleeding that could potentially be investigated by your physician
5. Pros/Cons of using Armour vs compounded
FIrst, because Armour was reformulated last year it’s really hard for me personally to recommend it anymore. There’s just been too many thyroid patients who had poor experiences with it. I’m not sure how much you read. We have lots of thyroid information here:-) LOL, but Forest Labs increased the cellulose in the Armour when they changed it and this caused a lot of thyroid patients to go hypothyroid on it, and/or have additional problems with feeling well.
Having said that if you get compounded then what you are really getting is generic natural dessicated thyroid powder meaning that it’s the ingredient that all companies use to make their thyroid tablets anyway, and this theoretically can be compounded using any combo of T3 and T4 that is right for you.
Positives of compounding is that you can get the ratio of T3/T4 adjusted, and you can ask what fillers your compounding pharmacy uses. I believe that People’s Pharmacy at least one of the stores where one of the other gals has gone, uses Acidophilus as a filler…which is way better than something like cellulose which can bind to the medication making it more difficult for your body to use.
Negatives of compounding: much, much more expensive. I think someone said that it was like 10x the cost of getting regular natural dessicated thyroid medication.
Also a negative of compounding is that it doesn’t make it easy to adjust your dose. Especially at the beginning and if you have a doctor who knows what they are doing, they may tell you to take 1/4 tablet more or 1/2 tablet more or whatever your particular dose is, when they are adjusting your dose especially after changing medication types and/or in the winter when most of us need to increase our thyroid meds. So that is a huge drawback for me.
The other option is if you want to go with a tablet, some people are doing better on NatureThroid instead of Armour. Generally, you can get it at Walgreens. If you have trouble finding it in Austin, just let me know here and I can email you directly with some areas where other members have found it locally.
And finally, there is a company in Canada that makes a naturally dessicated thyroid hormone called Efra. For many members they say this works like the old armour or is the one most close to it.
What I do is to ask my doc for 2 prescriptions:
1. One for NatureThroid in grains not mg
2. One for Natural Dessicated Thyroid hormone (in grains) not mg
This way I can either get mine locally or using the 2nd prescription (the one that says Natural Dessicated Thyroid Hormone) I can order it from Canada if there is a supply problem like there was earlier this year in the US
Hope that helps, let me know how your doctor appointment goes, and I think there is a lady here who is very happy with her doctor in the Austin area who has thyroid issues so if you need the name just ask.
Luann
Hi everyone,
My name is Michelle and I am in Austin,TX. I just found this site tonight as I was researching and getting facts for my doctor’s appt. tomorrow. I’m currently on 125mcg Synthroid/ 10mcg Cytomel but am wanting to switch to Armour as I have once again been experiencing symptoms. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s in ’04 and had half my thyroid removed as I had a goiter the size of a slightly smaller golf ball (not exaggerating!) rapidly growing on it. The first year after the surgery was a nightmare, I had depression so dark that only my faith and reliance on God got me through it. I have had to continually increase my levels as my thyroid continues to die off and have not been able to get fully stable. Back before I knew I had thyroid issues, I gained 100lbs in a matter of 9months and have never been able to loose it or keep from gaining easily. I am hoping the Armour will help me where the Synthroid could not. Thank you for all the GREAT information on here!! I feel better prepared with questions and comments for tomorrow.
I do have a few questions:
1. My Ferritin level was a 2 when first tested in ’08. My doctor contributed it to my thyroid, but also to my Poly Cystic Ovarian disease that caused me to loose large amounts of blood during my cycles. He put me on iron supplements. One year later, he tested the level again… it had only gone up to a 3. He then put me on ferrous gluconate (chelated iron) and my OB/GYN started me on Yaz, which has helped tremendously. I have now been on it for a year and will find out tomorrow if it has improved. I’ll post my results tomorrow, but am at a loss as to what to do if it hasn’t improved. I didn’t know I was soooooo very low until reading the posts here and am more concerned about it now than before. Any suggestions from those who have had issues with this too??
2. Pros/Cons of doing Armour vs. getting it compounded?? I saw the post about People’s Pharmacy here in Austin which is great to know but not sure which I should ask the doctor for. I hope to check this before the appt. so any suggestions would be great!
Thanks again!
Rene’, thanks for calling Forest Labs and telling them how awful the new Armour is. I am having a terrible time as well after almost 10 years of success with the old type of Armour Thyroid medicine. I’m perplexed that the company behind Nature Throid would also change their medicine after the fiasco with the Armour. Call me skeptical but something tells me this has to be profit related…probably the new thyroid meds can be manufactured less expensively if they add more or different fillers. What will they do if there is no market for their products though? If it doesn’t work for the vast majority of thyroid patients, who will buy the stuff?
I’m so sorry that you had to go through thyroid cancer and now this too!!! You would think it would be a simple thing to find a thyroid medicine that works. Guess that used to be the case but not so easy now. My cousin tried the Canadian thyroid and says that it works the best for her compared to the alternatives. I’ve heard some people say it’s like the old Armour while others say they have to take more of the Canadian medicine as compared to their former dosage.
I’m not sure what I’m going to do either. Would appreciate it if you could update here with what you decide to do and how you’re doing. I’ll do the same and will put a call into Forest Labs tomorrow for what it’s worth:-)
Please, please call Pam at Armour Thyroid to express your concerns and discontent! She works in quality control. I JUST DID!!! You can call her and talk to her or leave a voice message. Her direct number and ext. at Forrest Labs are as follows with: #1 800-678-1605 Ext. 67023. Thanks!!!
Hello everyone!! I am also a Armour thyroid user after having my thyroid completely removed due to cancer in 1999. I have had issues with medication ever since! I, like many of you, didn’t do well on the Synthroid after trying it for years!! I even tried combining it with the T3 Cytomel. Doctors would ‘not’ listen to me and made you feel like you were depressed, etc… and need to go on medication!! Who wouldn’t be depressed when you feel like that!! I then ‘finally’ found a doctor locally (Fargo, ND) which was hard to do who was open minded to the natural alternatives. I used Armour for several years with success and have now recently tried the newly reformulated medication. I am just finding out that it was reformulated and thinking something was seriously wrong!! I am glad I am not imaging this!! I would be so very very happy if it is true, but not likely, that they will return the old Armour! I am also contemplating trying one of the other alternatives such as Nature Throid or Westhroid. I can’t understand how and why it seems ‘most’ people can go about their day and just take their Synthroid and not be bothered… then there are ‘us’ and so many of us who need to struggle! It makes me soo mad that they feel they can just take control and change the Armour and destroy so many of our livelihoods!! I can imagine most of the people in charge do not have thyroid issues thus cannot relate!! It is so nice to see a forum where we can support one another!! Please let me know if Armour truly is going to go back to the OLD formula… it would truly be a sign from GOD!! Thank you and best of health to all!! Rene’
Please excuse my typos!!
Hi, I started with .75 grain of NatureThroid and I think that was not enough because my TSH increased from 4.23 to 7.95. I have extreme fatigue and I think I’m going to increase my dose to 2 grains soon to see if that helps. Could anyone tell me how soon after increasing their dose you feel the effects of the medication? I don’t want to take too much, but I know that the beginning dose of 3/4 grain is too little. Thank you.
Norma, Welcome and Megan thanks for the great info.
I also wanted to add to what Megan said Norma that sometimes people will do better if they add a small drop of honey to their Amour Thyroid or even NatureThyroid medication now. Both Armour and NatureThroid have the cellulose that Megan mentioned in them which makes it more difficult for us to absorb the medication. Adding the honey and also crushing the tablets first between two spoons and then taking it sublingually may also be a useful thing to try to see if it makes any difference for you.
Hi Norma, Glad you joined our thyroid group. Regarding your question on cholesterol and thyroid medications, I have seen and heard quite a few thyroid patients who’ve had very high cholesterol before starting thyroid replacement therapy and whose cholesterol dropped significantly after being on the proper dose of thyroid medication.
There are also many people who are not doing well with the new Armour. The company (Forest Labs) added in cellulose to the tablets, which makes it difficult for many of us to absorb. Do you know what your latest thyroid labs are? If so please post them with ranges. You may want to ask your doctor for a trial of another dessicated thyroid hormone, and/or get your latest labs or have labwork drawn including both your TSH, FREE T3, FREE T4 and Reverse T3 to see how you’re doing. You may need to add in Cytomel (*T3) if your Free T3 is low.
Thyroid Medications and Cholesterol
Hello, My name is Norma and I’m writing from Kentucky. Several years ago before I started thyroid medication, my cholesterol was 246 and my TSH level was 9. My doctor prescribed Synthroid and I felt very bad on it so I stopped taking it. I finally switched to natural dessicated thyroid hormone (was taking Armour) and my cholesterol dropped below 200. Now it’s creeping up again and I’m wondering if it’s because of the fillers in the new Armour. Anyone else have this problem?
Thank You,
Norma
Hello Valerie,
Welcome to our thyroid patient’s group. Glad to have you here. Regarding your question about NatureThroid vs. the old Armour..it’s hard to know exactly what will work best for you. Here’s some info I’ve learned from other thyroid patients.
1. If you’re taking NatureThroid or some other Natural Dessicated Thyroid hormone tablet and you feel as if it’s not working as well for you as the old Armour, then you can try crushing the tablets either using a crusher built into some pill splitters or simply crushing the tablets between 2 spoons. Add a drop of honey to the mixture and try taking your medication sublingually. Either under your tonque or next to your inside of your cheek.
2. Some patients say the Canadian Version of the thyroid medication Efra is ‘like the old Armour’. Others say it doesn’t work as well but many say it does. Everyone is so individual unfortunately right now we are all in the same boat and having to try different thyroid medications until we find something that works for us.
3. Others if they are taking synthetic thyroid medications are adding in some Cytomel T3 to their thyroid medications. That also requires a prescription and you can also add in the Cytomel with any of the natural dessicated thyroid hormones if for some reason your T3 is still too low.
All the best, and hope that gives you some info to get you going. Let us know if we can help more.
Bethanie
Laura,
I can’t thank you enough for that great explanation about the thyroid hormones. I had no idea that the natural thyroid hormones had so many different components. I’m going to ask my doctor to change my medication to one of the natural thyroid options. Now I just need to decide if I want to try the compounded or one of the regular ones.
Hi Carrie,
Finally, a question I can answer:-) LOL, I asked the same thing about thyroid medicines back when I was first diagnosed and having trouble with Synthroid. My goodness this brings back memories of sitting in my endocrinologist’s office and being given the prescription for the synthroid. I was so miserable on Synthroid and didn’t know there were any other options for thyroid medicatons. Then when I found out there were others all I could think about was “why didn’t my doctor tell me” and why were natural thyroid medicines supposedly really better than Synthroid!
Here’s what I learned. So your body’s thyroid gland has these hormones: T4, T3, T2, T1, and calcitonin. When you take natural dessicated thyroid hormone (which means that it is a non synthetic version of thyroid hormone, it is made from dessicated pig thyroid and is most similar to what your own thyroid would produce. The ratios are a bit different: In the body, our T4/T3 ratio is 93/7 and in dessicated thyroid it is around 80/20. Synthroid, or the synthetic versions of thyroid hormones only have T4….and alot of doctors “think” that’s ok because the body is supposed to convert T4 (which is the inactive hormone) into T3 — the type that is “active”. But if your thyroid is not functioning well, guess what? It doesn’t convert the T4 sometimes into T3…leaving us hypothyroid patients miserable and feeling ill, while some doctors say it’s fine just to take T4. There’s been some recent studies that have come out saying that now (finally in 2010 some docs are getting it) it’s preferable to use both T4 and T3 in treatment for thyroid patients, but it takes a long time for new knowledge to filter down to all doctors, so in many cases, patients have to be the messenger and it’s important for us to recognize that we all deserve proper and effective thyroid treatment.
Laura
Hi, my name is Carrie and I have a really basic question about thyroid medications. Why is it that natural thyroid is supposed to be better than the synthetic? Is it because it’s made from an animal?
Hello to everyone, I was in a thyroid support group meeting last night and was told that I could visit this site for helpful thyroid information and to ask questions about natural dessicated thyroid meds. Here’s my dilemma. Since the Armour changed I’ve been trying to find a good substitute. I’m now on NatureThroid but it just seems to me like it doesn’t work as great as the old Armour. Should I just stay on it or do you think I should try something else. If I should try another type of thyroid medication which one is as close to the old Armour?
Hello Betty, welcome to the thyroid group. Here’s some feedback for you on your thyroid labs.
Your Free T3 is too low. It normally needs to be top of the range in order to feel well. Ferritin is terribly, terribly low. In order for the thyroid medications to be absorbed properly it should be at least 60, preferably 70 -85 or 90. Are you taking an iron supplement? If so how much and which one?
What type of compounded medication are you on? Is it natural dessicated thyroid hormone?
I found out I was hypothyroid about 3 years ago. Initially put on Levothyroxine and have recently changed to compounded T4/T3. I’m interested in getting some opinions on my lab results. Here are the ones that I think you all will want to review:
T3, Free 2.3 (2.0-4.4)
T4 Free 1.36 (0.82-1.77)
TSH 1.469 (0.450-4.500)
Reverse T3 434 (90-350)
Ferritin 14 (13-150)
Hi Mindy,
It is perfectly normal to have a low TSH when you are on natural dessicated thyroid hormones. In fact, it is expected. The levels your doctor needs to look at are your Free T3, Free T4, and then take into account whether or not you have thyroid antibodies, and your ferritin levels, clinical symptoms etc in order to calculate your dose. It would not be prudent to lower your thyroid dose based soley on the TSH, in fact, doing so puts you at greater risk for osteoporosis.
Low thyroid levels can contribute to osteoporosis as well as high thyroid levels, but your thyroid levels are not high.
My aunt was on Synthroid for years and was “undertreated” thus she was hypothyroid for many years and fell and broke her hip because of osteoporosis. In terms of heart trouble, if you are hyperthyroid, yes you can have heart rates that are elevated, however, since yours are not, and you aren’t hyperthyroid, then unless you have some other heart condition, raising your thyroid medication so that you are on an adequate supply of thyroid hormones will not put you at risk.
Too low thyroid levels or too high thyroid levels are much more “risky” than appropriate thyroid hormone replacement.
Welcome to the thyroid group Mindy!
Cant’ believe it. My physician told me that I had to lower my NatureThroid medication also because my TSH was too low! But I’m also at the bottom of the spectrum when it comes to my Free T3 and Free T4. My doctor said that I’m risking my health by keeping my TSH low… mines at 0.6. He says I’m risking heart problems as well as osteoporosis, but what I want to know is how can I get heart problems if my resting pulse rate is always very low? This hasn’t changed since I started taking thyroid medicine. And my blood pressure is very good also. But my energy is next to nothing, and my skin is so dry it is flaking. Formerlly, my hair was so very thick and now it’s not awful compared to most people, but for me, my hair is getting thin because I shed constantly. So I guess I shouldn’t be lowering my thyroid medication either?
Hi Lynn,
Thanks very much for answering my question. I thought I should not be lowering my thyroid medicine because of the T3 and T4 amounts but it helps alot to know I’m not the only one thinking that way! I’m tired enough as it is most days. Sometimes even needing a 3-4 hour nap in the afternoon —which I don’t have time for and my weight has crept up slowly even though I’m exercising more and eating very healthy. I am going to request copies of my lab work this week and will also see if I had the other tests that you mentioned done. I’ve been told in the past that I’m low in iron but I dont’ know what lab tests they did to check that. Thank you again for the helpful information and support. I feel sometimes very alone with these thyroid problems so it’s nice to know that there is someone else who understands.
Hello Amy,
Glad you’ve joined our thyroid discussion group. Welcome! If you’re Free T3 and Free T4 are bottom of the range, this means you need more thyroid medication not less. Get a copy of your latest labs and feel free to post the results if you want more feedback, but reducing your thyroid dose based on what you are explaining would not be the proper move to make. And absolutely ask for the Reverse T3 test to be run with your next lab draw if it hasn’t already been done. Other labs to ask for would include your ferritin, TPO Antibodies and TG Antibodies if you haven’t already had a Thyroid Antibody panel done.
I’m new to this website but would like some advice if possible. My doctor says I have to lower my thyroid dose because my TSH is down to 0.8 and she says that’s too low. The trouble is my Free T3 and Free T4 are both at the very bottom of the low end of the range, and I have all the hypothyroid symptoms. I’m not sure if she tested reverse T3 and I’m afraid to lower my thyroid dose right now. What can I do?
My Reverse T3 was high so I’ve been on Cytomel only (*T3) and I got my labwork in the mail from my doctor yesterday. Apparently, things are moving along nicely because the Reverse T3 is now low. Anyway, my doctor said I got the higher Reverse T3 to begin with because my body didn’t do a good job of converting T4 to T3. So what happened to me is that he said that the T3 just pools outside of the cells, so that the body doesn’t really get the active thyroid hormone that it needs.
Hi Beth,
I didn’t have any problems changing from the new Armour to NatureThroid and used the same exact dose to start out. After about 6 weeks I increased my NatureThroid dose by 30mg but I think that was just because my Armour dose was too low. Something that helped was that I do crush the NatureThroid and add some honey and then take it sublingually. When I just swallow the tablets I seem to crash in the afternoons, but if I take them SL and add the honey it seems I get better absorption. Hope that helps!
I am changing over this week from the new Armour to NatureThroid and was wondering if anyone had any tips for switching the thyroid medication from these two thyroid meds. I was hoping that the new Armour would work for me but I have had nothing but problems with it. Severe anxiety, heart palpitations and when I got my last labwork, TSH was up to 12. Doctor wanted to put me on compounded thyroid, but that’s so expensive and I’ve heard that it doesn’t work great for some people either. So I pushed for NatureThroid and will be starting on it as soon as I get my prescription filled this week. Any words of advice?
Thanks, Beth
Lorie,
It sounds like you’ve been through a terrible ordeal, and I’m so sorry you’ve had these problems.
Here’s my thoughts.
1. On Monday, ask your best friend to help you or your husband if you have to but get a copy of your lab work. (The latest ones for sure, but if possible the last 3 lab draws that you have) You need to have your own copies, not rely on some doctor telling you it’s either high or low. There are ranges for thyroid as well as other lab tests and it is not just important where you are ie: high or low, but you need to know exactly what the results were.
You also need to know what tests they ran. Many thyroid patients are not given adequate testing but without knowing exactly what tests you had, it’s hard to give you any feedback that will be useful. So #1 on your priority list will be to get your own copy of your lab results. They have to give you a copy of them, and you need your own copies.
#2. In the future, ALWAYS get copies of all your labs results. It will help you in many ways and save time scrambling should a situation come up in the future where you need them. You wouldn’t believe how many people I talk to whose doctors lost their labs or things got misplaced, so the #1 rule of being in charge of your own health is to get your own copies each and every time a lab test or other test is run.
Also if you need a recommendation for a doctor please let me know your city/state and I’ll see if any other members can recommend a doctor in your area that they have used and have been pleased with. While I can’t personally recommend ind. physicians, I will check our list that members have sent in of physicians that they have found to be helpful with thyroid issues and send you that info if you wish.
Post your lab results once you get them, and I’m sure you’ll get more helpful info.
Hang in there, from what you’re describing it almost certainly is an issue with your thyroid and things can get better.
My hypothyroid problems started about 4 years ago. Also was prescribed Levothyroxine and would get the feelings of not being able to breathe. Worse at night. I got relief from my symptoms when I found a new doctor who gave me Cytomel (T3) with Naturethroid because my T3 was always too low. This helped my “air hunger” symptoms and I can exercise much easier as well as sleep better at night.
I also added in iron because my ferritin was too low which was not helping me either. Once I got my ferritin above 60, I was able to add in more thyroid medicine and am now doing great.
Nancy I almost cried to see that someone cared about what i was feeling. I had a total thyroidectomy. I felt my best when i was at TSH of 24 range 4,o-1.oo I believe. I’m not sure of my free t3 I believe he said they were low. My last TSH was 11 and i was feeling horrible. My doctor said that its not my thyroid and I needed to see a psyc dr. My best friend and my husband were with me and explained to them that I was always the bubbly person making everyone laugh–always organizing get togethers with friends. people would always say i had a good attitude and people always surrounded me. I remember I was always in trouble at work and school for talking and laughing so much. I think i would rather have taken my chances with the cancer than to live like a zombie. I swiched to a new endo but she has not offered to test me for anything other than adrenal glands in 6 weeks. I told her I always had a problem with anemia but she didnt say much other than stay at 100mcg because she feel my body has not gotten used to the dose and she put me on anxiety meds which do help but i dont want to depend on them. I had no symptoms prior to surgery. I was called to the RN program after waiting for 2/12 years in the lottery and i couldnt even go to the manditory orientation because i literally felt crazy buzzing foggy dizzy mind. I dont want to lose my job or my husband I just can’t do anything anymore this has robbed me of my life. I had read of people mixing nature throid with synthroid have you heard anything on this. I realy thank you for answering me . I still have some hope in god but somtimes I have my doubts
Hi Everyone,
Before I started natural dessicated thyroid hormone replacement I was having the “air hunger” issue also. Sometimes I felt as if I were even panicking because although I was breathing..it felt like I just couldn’t get enough air. This happened when I was awake and even when sleeping–sometimes it would wake me up from a dead sleep and I thought I would die, or dream about being smothered. Luckily I found a doctor who didn’t just look at lab values..my labs showed I was “fine” but treated the symptoms and once I started on thyroid hormone, this problem is gone. I also lost the excess weight that had plagued me for years, that wouldn’t budge before. So although my blood work (lab work) showed “normal”, if it had not been for my doc who was willing to let me try Natural Thryoid ) I’m now on the Canadian kind because the Armour quit working once it was changed…I’d still be overweight, miserable, and feeling like I couldn’t breathe. I’m just grateful I got the right help and that I found a doctor who listened.
I am on levothyroxine and having some issues also. I am having spaciness, muscle pain, exhaustion, vision problems, difficulty concentrating etc. Right now I’m on one grain of Levothyroxine and having “air hunger” at night which is worse than during the day. My throat always feels tight and especially at night it is harder to get my breath. Although I’m very very tired, I can’t sleep and feel like I can’t catch my breath. Anyone else have similar problems with their thyroid?
Lorie,
I am so sorry you’re having all these troubles after your thyroid surgery. Now, first, keep in mind, we are not doctors here, simply patients helping out each other sharing knowledge and tips that we have found helpful in our own quest to find health and healing dealing with thyroid disorders.
I’m sure you will get some feedback from others, but in order to give you some ideas for things to discuss with your doctor, could you please answer the following questions.
1. You said you had thyroid surgery in April of 2010, Did you have your entire thyroid gland removed or only part of it?
2. What symptoms did you have prior to the thyroid surgery?
3. What are your labs? Please post your latest labs including the ranges for each?
4. Have you ever had your ferritin tested?
If you can post back with that info, that would be most helpful.
Take care and thanks for posting.
Nancy
Please help, help help Hi my name is Lorie, I recently had my thyroid removed in April of 2010 i was started on levothyroxin 25mcg twice a day. I was doing good not great just good I was able to go out and eat, I would get ready and go shopping I had to stop every once and a while due to tingling in my body and dizziness. 1 month later I go see my Endo and he asked how i was doing. I told him ok I was just tired and sometimes had sadness he told me he was going to increase my dose and the nightmare started. I literally went nuts. I was foggy minded, dizzy disoriented, very sad nauseated, to the point I didn’t want to live. 1 week later I went back to see him and he gave me a script for nature-throid and had me draw some labs thought it could be my calcium. I took 65mg of the naturethroid and for two days I felt better but then i started getting very irritable, foggy, dizzy and very bad anxiety. I stopped taking the meds and decided to cut my 120mcg in half. I felt better still tingly sad but better. I was able to go back to work and exercise a bit I didn’t feel great just not as bad. My surgeon which whom I work with asked me to draw some labs and my TSH was at a 24 she said I needed to to up my dose so she started me on 100mcg of synthroid. I was scared to start off so high so I cut the pill and took 75mcg. again I started feeling foggy, dizzy and this time my body ached and tingled. A week later I went up to 100mcg. and my nightmare starts again. I can’t sleep. I have diarrhea, I can’t do a short walk without feeling like I’m going crazy in the head I feel weak, help I’m desperate. I have three children that depend on me and i had to leave my job again I feel like I’m going nuts.
Hi Barb,
Sending greetings your way to welcome you to the thyroid group!
I can certainly understand your concerns about Synthroid and Levothyroxine. I hear so many reports of people who find either that it may not work for them initially, or that the synthetics stop working for them after a period of time. There’s some new research out that suggests that even when physicians are using the synthetics (T4) thyroid medications that patients will do better on a combined regimen of both T3 and T4, instead of T4 only. Of course, thyroid patients themselves have known this for years === LOL, nothing like having your own body as a laboratory experiment.:-)
And iron can definitely be hard on the stomach. I also like this one which many people have recommended to me:
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron
It is gentler on the stomach than most, and make sure to take it with 500 – 1000mg of vitamin c for better absorption, and at least 4 hours away from your thyroid medication.
Your ferritin is so low I would suspect that i’ts going to be hard for you to raise your thyroid dose enough regardless of which thyroid medication you’re on, so I would definitely start there by getting your ferritin increased and also then decide which thyroid medication you will try.
Thanks for posting and again, welcome to the thyroid group!
Hi Priscilla,
Glad you’ve joined us here on the thyroid group. You are right on track with your thoughts about Vitamin D and thyroid issues. Because thyroid disorders are related to an issue with the immune system, and Vitamin D is so important in terms of keeping your immune system healthy–then it’s also important to monitor and test for appropriate Vitamin D levels. If you would like to put your lab results in another post, someone will give you some feedback on your Vitamin D levels because with Vitamin D it’s very important to not only be “within range” but “optimized” so that not only your thyroid is protected, but your entire body. Studies have shown that those with higher levels of Vitamin D (optimized levels not excessive) but optimized levels of Vitamin D had lower occurrences of several types of cancer vs patients with low (but even in range Vitamin D levels.) It’s important to get checked like you did because Vitamin D is fat soluble, meaning that it is “stored” in our tissues and therefore we can get too much. But most of us, who are tested find that we are also way below our optimal level and therefore need to supplement Vitamin D accordingly.
Hi, my newest thyroid lab results came in and I have a question for your thyroid group. Is it normal to have low Vitamin D levels with thyroid problems? Mine was quite low according to my new doctor and she wants me to start raising it. I have been diagnosed as being hypothyroid as well as having Hashimotos. My mother had thyroid cancer so I am concerned about trying to keep my thyroid as healthy as possible. Thanks for the help.
Hello fellow thyroid people,
I was talking to my pharmacist today (I’m using compounded natural thyroid) and found out that they are using something called Avicell (not sure how to spell this) as a filler. Then I found out that Avicell is basically cellulose. Which suprised me because this may explain why I am not feeling very good using the compounded medication. My doctor said he will rewrite my prescription telling the pharmacy to use no cellulose as a filler. Wanted to share that info with all of you in case you run into the same situation. Ask your pharmacy if you are using the compounded type of thyroid medicine what they are using as a filler.
Thanks,
Amber
Hello Lynn,
A warm welcome to you to our thyroid group. Regarding your increasing your thryoid medication I would hold off doing that until your ferritin levels are at least around 55-60. Ideally, around 60. What happens is that if your ferritin is too low, you can get the side effects that make it seem like you are hyperthyroid even though technically you are still hypothyroid. Increasing the ferritin makes it possible for the thyroid to be utilized by your cells, so I would work on that first.
Best,
Jean
Greetings to everyone else who’s going through thyroid problems. My dilemma is that I’ve been trying to find a replacement for Armour thyroid since late last fall. I started Naturethroid on March 18th and am taking 2 grains. About two weeks later I dropped the dosage a bit because I was having heart palpitations and my temperatures were higher. I’m graphing them every day as suggested. I was taking about 1 3/4 grains and felt much better. Recently had labs drawn and my labs are still showing that I’m too low and should raise my thyroid dose. My ferritin is improving it’s at 34 and began at 10 when I initially tested, so that’s an improvement. Do you all think I should increase my dose to 2 grains one day then back down to 1 3/4 grains the next to try to increase my T3 and T4 but not go back to the hyper symptoms?
Hi, I’m new here also, and I was diagnosed with Hashimotos 15 months ago. It’s been hard trying to find a dose of thyroid medication that works for me. Initially I was on Synthroid but had bad reactions to it, then I was changed to Levothyroxine which wasn’t much better. I finally found another doctor who was willing to prescribe Armour thyroid, but I didn’t know anything about the change in formula until I found the info here.
From what I understand my ferritin (iron) is still very low,it’s only at 12. I took a prescription iron supplement that the doctor told me to take but it causes constipation and makes my stomach feel quite uncomfortable.
I may try either the Naturethroid or the Canadian type but not sure if my doctor will go for it as he thought Armour would do the job. Thanks for listening.
Hello Amy, Welcome to the thyroid group! One way to determine if you have the old Armour or the new Armour is that the new reformulated Armour Thyroid medication is less pungent in odor than the old type. The older Armour had a very distinctive odor, which the new one does not. More than a year ago when Forest Labs reformulated the Armour thyroid, many pharmacists weren’t even aware that the medication had changed. Unfortunately or fortunately (LOL) it was the thyroid patients ourselves, that found out that the medication was not working anymore. Most of us had return of our hypothyroid symptoms ie: exhausted, hair falling out, lack of concentration, weight gain among others, and finally after pressure from all the thyroid patients whose symptoms and labs went “out of whack” Forest admitted that they had changed the filler.
It seems strange that you would get the old Armour this year, but I guess it is possible that your first prescription was still the original stock, whereas your new prescription could be the new one, especially if your first one worked well and this one did not. I wouldn’t rely too heavily on what your pharmacist tells you in this case because from past experience, we have had many people write in and say their pharmacists told them everything was “just the same’ whereas it was not (from more than a year ago when all of this started.)
Now, it is possible that there are other things contributing to your symptoms. And with Hashi’s it is normal to swing from one extreme to the next. I’ve just heard so many things about people having problems with the new Armour that if it were me and I was having return of symptoms I may think very strongly about trying Naturethroid or the Canadian Thyroid instead of waiting too long.
One thing you can try is to crush your Armour between two spoons and add a few drops of honey to it and then try to take it sublingually. Some people are having better luck taking it that way and the honey seems to compensate a bit for the extra cellulose that was added by Forest when they reformulated making the medication more available to your system.
Additionally, if you want to post your most recent lab results someone can give you feedback on things to watch out for with Hashimotos with regards to your labs and probably give you some hints on what to ask your doctor.
Hope this helps you, and again, welcome to the board.
Warm Regards,
Rhonda
Hello, I am new to this message board. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s a few months ago and was prescribed Armour in June. I felt great and totally back to normal – until I refilled the prescription with a new 30 day supply. After a few days my symptoms started to return and my hair started falling a lot within a week. I remember that I noticed when I refilled the prescription last week that the pills looked a little different in color and size – they seemed more yellow-beige looking. The pharmacist insists that they are exactly the same. He says that this is my body adjusting and I just need an increased dose. After reading this page and learning that the old formula of Armour has returned, I wonder if I initially got the new old (good) formula in June and the refill was the new (bad) formula that people have been complaining about. I wonder if the pharmacies don’t know the difference in the Armour that is being supplied to them – that the old and the new are mixed up. Does this make sense to anyone? or is this swing of symptoms when you go on these meds just something that is normal for Hashi-people? I am trying to decide if I should up the dose of Armour or switch to Nature-throid. Thanks for all the great information on this board – you are all a big help.
Regarding Thyroid Surgery:
A good question to ask your surgeon if you are going to have thyroid surgery is if they will use a device called a laryngeal nerve monitor during your thyroid surgery procedure. If the surgeon uses this it helps to monitor the condition of the laryngeal nerve, (the voice nerve) which helps the surgical team stay away from the nerve and protect your voice.
My mom had Hashimotos as well and her hair was falling out all the time, she was very tired, yet her doctors also didn’t want to do anything until her goiter became very large and obstructive. She had thyroid surgery and came through it ok, but her surgeon used this laryngeal nerve monitor to help keep her voice safe.
I second what Lynn said. If you’re having any type of thyroid surgery find out detailed info about your surgeon. I had mine at one of (supposedly) the best places in the US–yet I found myself without a voice because not only was the thyroid surgeon not that experienced, but she permitted a student surgeon to do parts of the procedure. I had a calcium emergency occur right in the OR as a result of it, as well as losing the ability to speak for 6 months. So it’s definitely better to research who will be in the room and their history so that you don’t end up like me. I had Hashimotos as well and was never put on thyroid hormones before the surgery. Was told for years everything was “fine” we would just “watch it” and then my goiter got larger and larger until it had to come out. Had someone “listened” to me earlier, I would have been on thyroid hormone medication in an attempt to stop the goiter from growing.
Hi Lynn,
Welcome to the thyroid group. I’m sorry that you found out that you have Hashimotos. I know it can be very scary to hear that you have an auto-immune condition–especially since many doctors don’t understand how bad that Hashimotos can make you feel.
The good news is that you don’t have to just wait until the thyroid burns itself out, with Hashimotos, and the symptoms you mentioned like the tightness in the throat and feeling like you were choking is consistent with Hashimotos and the development of a goiter.
Now, onto your question. Everyone is different and it wouldn’t be right for me to tell you whether or not to have the thyroid surgery. Here are some questions for you: 1) Are they suggesting to remove the entire thyroid or part of it?
2) If you do decide on surgery make sure you ask how many operations your surgeon does per month?
3) It is very, very important to choose a good, experienced thyroid surgeon as some of the members here have had issues with losing their voice for many months after thyroid surgery because their surgeon damaged their vocal cords during the surgery
4) Even if you’re having surgery at a well known facility ask that no students be allowed to participate in your operation. Again, some members have learned the hard way that having students perform parts of a thyroidectomy can be dangerous
5) Taking medication is an option as well (if it is not dangerous for you to wait and do so) Some people have had good results getting on an adequate dose of thyroid medicine which can stop the progression of Hashimotos and cause a goiter to shrink.
I hope that gives you some assistance, and please let us know if you have other questions or even if you just need support.
Hello,
Thyroid problems run in my family so I wasn’t surprised to be diagnosed with Hashimotos last year. Funny thing was, I had told my doctor for quite a while that I felt fullness in my neck and had trouble catching my breath sometimes. It was worse at night when laying down. I would get the sensation that I was choking. But my doctor brushed me off and didn’t address the problem. Now, I’m facing a decision about thyroid surgery because I have a goiter that has grown fairly large. I’m told it’s possible that it my shrink if on medication but my question is why did my doctor wait so long to do anything? I’m frustrated and scared about this and don’t want to have surgery unless absolutely necessary. Has anyone else gone through something like this with your thyroid? Did you try thyroid medicine or did you have thyroid surgery?
Hi Robin,
Are you adding honey to the new Armour? Sometimes that helps make the thyroid medicine more “available” to use in your cells. The increased cellulose in the new Armour thyroid has made it more difficult for many of us thyroid patients to absorb, but the honey has helped some.
You know, there are lots of people who have simply had to stop taking the new Armour because they progessively felt worse, so I would say if the honey doesn’t work for you, then it may be a great time to ask your doc to either give you a prescription for Nature Throid, or the Canadian Thyroid, or even a compounded version. Compounded is the most expensive of the bunch, and before you get a compounded version, post here and ask about some guidance in that area, because compounded can be as bad or worse than the Amour thyroid if you get the wrong filler. I know it seems awful if you’re feeling bad, but please hang in there. I can promise you if you get the right medication things will get better, but most of us have had to do some tweaking along the way.
Hi Robin,
A warm welcome to you from the thyroid group. Thanks for posting your question. Here’s some general info for you, but it would really help tremendously if you could respond back and post your actual lab results (with ranges) so that you can get more specific assistance.
First, the TPO and TG antibodies should be what is considered negative ( or below a certain value). If you are shown to have Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPO) or Thyroglobulin (TG) antibodies then your immune system has either presently or in the past, mounted an attack on your thyroid tissue.
Basically, what this means is that there is a high probability that you may have something called Hashimotos Thyroiditis which causes weight gain, fatigue, muscle weakness, depression and sensitivity to cold etc.
The Reverse T3 if it is high means that the thyroid hormone that your body is producing, or that you are taking can’t get into the cells.
Your ferritin being so low definitely affects how your thyroid medication is able to be processed. (Since you didn’t list the ranges, I don’t know how low yours is..cause I don’t have your lab numbers, but 11 is very low no matter what lab you are using) Serum iron is a measurement of the actual iron in your blood and ferritin is the measure of the “storage iron” your body has to use. Normally thyroid patients don’t feel well unless they’re ferritin is at least around 70, and having low iron makes it difficult to be able to raise your thyroid hormone dose if you need to without affecting your adrenal glands. (This sometimes can cause people to feel jittery if their ferritin is too low, and exhausted, and/or feel like they can’t catch their breath etc).
Note: I can’t absorb iron very well either, but this iron is a capsule form so it makes it easier to digest and is the only one that I can find that doesn’t make my stomach hurt.
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron
I take mine with 1000 mg of vitamin c – this helps the iron to be absorbed as well.
Please post back with your exact labs so that I can see exactly how your labs look and can give you some things to discuss with your doctor.
Hope this is useful for you!
- Loren
Can someone please explain what the TG Antibodies, TPO Antibodies and Reverse T3 show. My dr just tested my Free t3 t4 and TSH and they came up better, but, alas, I am doing worse!!! I started taking my Armour sublingually, but I don’t think it’s the digestion that is the problem. I go back to the dr on Thursday and want to know what to discuss, HELP!
Also..she tested my Ferritin, (11). What does the Serum Iron show. I used to go to the oncologist for IV iron, she said mine isn’t bad enough for that…but I can’t process vitamins. So frustrated! I think I just gained five more pounds while I typed this out!
All thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated, thank you!
~Robin
Hi Lydia,
Glad you posted on the thyroid group. I would 2nd the suggestion to try to take the NatureThroid sublingually and to mix it with just a bit of honey for better absorption. I also thought the suggestion of taking a digestive enzyme may also be a good idea, and I have another idea for you that may help. Taking a good quality probiotic can help the gut with “good or beneficial” bacteria helps some people reduce gas. You may want to experiment because in some people the effect can be the opposite, but I know for me that I have much less bloating in my gastrointestinal system and am much more comfortable if I take a good quality probiotic every day. I like the high quality ones that need to be refrigerated because I think some of the ones that don’t need refrigeration may not actually have “active strains” of the good bacteria left in them by the time you get them.
Greetings Lydia,
I just saw your post about the thyroid medication NatureThroid, and the increased gas issue and wanted to see if perhaps this would help at all? I crush my NatureThroid tablets and then add a couple of drops of raw honey to it, and then take it sublingually instead of swallowing it. See when Armour changed their formula they added cellulose—which they say doesn’t affect anything, but that’s actually not true for many of us hypothyroid patients. The cellulose acts as a binder meaning that it can attach to your actual thyroid medication which means less medication actually available for your body to use. The old Armour had more sugar in it, which helps the body absorb the medication better, so many of us who’ve had to survive the ups and downs of manufacturers changing their fillers, or changing the amount of fillers–have used this option to help our systems be able to actually utilize the thyroid medication better.
By taking the medication sublingually and letting it dissolve under your tongue you are also bypassing the gastrointestinal tract which in your case, could possible help reduce the gas, since your body wouldn’t have to digest the tablet if it were just absorbed sublingually.
Hope this helps, and again a very warm welcome to our thyroid group.
Elaine
Hello Lydia and welcome to the thyroid patients group! Other than the gas, how are you doing with the NatureThroid?
I do know that NatureThroid recently changed their formulation as well.. Uggghhhh, didn’t they learn anything from the Armour fiasco, so unfortunately some of us are having to adjust to their new formulation as well.
Also, NatureThroid has cellulose in it as a filler, and since this is a fiber, could potentially cause gastro upset similar to how you feel when you add other fibers to your diet.
Without researching more I wouldn’t want you to add anything to your thyroid medication just yet, but I wonder if adding some sort of digestive enzyme about an hour after taking your thyroid medicine may help. You’ll probably get other suggestions from other patients, but that was one of the things I thought about when reading your post that could potentially help.
Glad to have you join us, and keep us posted on your progress: what works and what doesn’t! That’s how we all learn:-)
- Andrea
Hi everyone!!
I am new to this site and new to Thyroid medication. I’ve been on NatureThroid for over 6 weeks now, but just last week my MD increased the dose from 32.5 to 65 . This change caused me a lot of gas, which you can imagine is uncomfortable and embarrasing.
Anyone experiencing these symptoms? also does anyone know if this is due to the lactose monohydrate ?(inactive ingredient) in naturethroid.
So far, I feel fine with NatureThroid, any ideas on what to do? how to get rid of the problem
I tried Armour, the new formula, and had headaches, gain weight and palpitations, so this one is not an option.
Thank you all for sharing!! Have a great day!
That’s so interesting. My endo has told me for the past two appointments that everything is also within a good range and that he’s not going to make any changes, but I’m so tired I can barely make it up to take my kids to their activities and when homework starts again….I am just dreading it. It’s hard to keep my eyes open past 7pm, and when everyone around me is roasting in this summer heat—I’m freezing cold. I take Metamucil every day and that doesn’t even help much either. I just pulled out my labs and my Reverse T3 is very high—way above what the normal range says it should be. I wonder why my endo didn’t address this?
Hi Sharon,
Thanks alot for your help. My Reverse T3 was high the last time I had my labs done but my doctor said it was nothing to worry about. Wish the doctors were as “with it” regarding thyroid knowledge as some of the thyroid patients themselves!
I’ll try to find my last labs and post them tomorrow if I can locate them. I recently moved so hopefully I’ll be able to find them quickly, otherwise I’ll just ask my doctor for another copy and will let you know.
I’m pretty tired as well, and have ice cold hands/feet although my Free T3 and Free T4 are mid/upper range, so that’s why my doctor said everythings “looking pretty good.” I just feel like I should feel better by now, so that’s why I was asking about the other hypothyroid symptoms. Thank you for helping me.
Hi Katie,
You’re right, constipation is one of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. The body slowwwwwwwws down in all areas, including the process of elimination. How do you feel? Are your labs looking good ie: Free T3 and Free T4 in upper levels? TSH supressed? Have you had your Reverse T3 checked?
Sometimes if your Reverse T3 is high and the other labs are looking good, what it can mean is that the thyroid hormone is blocked from getting into the cells. This can cause constipation along with other hypothyroid symptoms. Let me know if that helps or if you need more info. Also, please post your labs if you’re looking for more specific feedback.
I have a question regarding thyroid hormones and constipation. Could someone please tell me if getting on natural thyroid hormones is supposed to help with the constipation issues that is common in hypothyroid patients? I’ve been on NatureThroid for 3 months now and there’s no improvement in that area if you know what I mean. I’m taking extra magnesium, eat properly, and have a high fiber diet but nothing, I mean nothing seems to help.
Hello fellow hypothyroid folks,
I used to take synthroid and and changed over to slow released Synthetic Reverse T3 medication because I had very high reverse T3 levels. I’m now contemplating switching over to some type of Natural Thyroid hormone to see if it will work ok for me. Several years ago I tried Armour but it was like I had way too much anxiety with it, so I’m wondering if any of the other thyroid medicines may work better for me.
My dose of the synthetic slow release T3 is 65mcg, should I start on one grain of either Naturethroid or Efra, and at what time frame would it be proper to reduce the T3?
Hi Gina,
Thank you very much for the information on the nausea that you experienced with Armour. There have certainly been many people who’ve had numerous problems with the new Armour. Although I don’t recall hearing anyone whose reaction to it was so strong in terms of the nausea, I think it would make sense that if your body had trouble with the filler in it or something else that it may have wanted to get it out of your system.
So glad to hear that the Naturethroid is going well for you and that this solved the issue. And what a great example this is for newer thyroid patients who may have asked their doctor/pharmacist and then instead of doing something else like you did, may have just thought since there wasn’t that specific side effect listed, that it must be something else.
Are you taking the same exact dose of Naturethroid as you were with the Armour? This question is not related to your side effects but I have a friend whose actually changing to the Naturethroid today from the Armour because she’s getting heart palpitations all the time with the Armour she has. That never used to happen to her with the “old” Armour. So many things to consider, but I’m just tickled pink that you found out what was causing your problem and that it was related to the Armour thyroid, and that you’re doing well on the NatureThroid now.
Have a great weekend, Gina!
Renee
Armour gave me stomach-flu like symptoms. Beware! I took it for 18 months and had at least 8 episodes of nausea, “wrotten-egg” like burps and at times violent throwing up. After this occurred 4 times in 4 months and figuring out that I wasn’t eating anything to give me food poisoning and shouldn’t be getting the flu this often – I researched Armour and the reformulation possibility.
My dr and pharmacists hadn’t heard of this and were reluctant to think this was the problem, but we switched to Naturethroid just to see if things got better. I’m happy to say it’s been 5 months and no issues with nausea.
I researched the internet for anyone else with this type of reaction & couldn’t find anything – so wanted to put it out there in case someone else is suffering from this and doesn’t correlate it to their thyroid medication.
My doctor’s visit was yesterday to go over my thyroid labs. I’m on compounded natural thyroid medicine, but my TSH is very low, and my Free T3 and Free T4 are high. I was thinking about trying the Armour, but have some concerns about it from all I’ve read about the new fillers. Is there another medication I should look into?
Lori, That is terrific that you are feeling better using the Armour. I am afraid to try it again because I had such a bad reaction to it after the company changed the fillers. But the thought of the ‘old’ version possibly being available is so wonderful that I’m going to monitor this conversation and maybe after a few months or so I’ll get some courage to try it again. LOL, I don’t have a thyroid gland at all and I’ve heard that for those of us in that predicament small changes even from one batch to the next of thyroid hormone can be difficult to adjust to. I also have the problem with my ferritin being low and iron tablets always upset my stomach. I think I may try the other option mentioned also to see if I can stomach that one. One other thing that seems to help me stay more energized is to watch my B12 levels as mine tend to get low and that makes me soooooooo tired. I’m currently trying some different sublinguals and will post an update once I know more how they effect me.
It was so nice though to wake up this morning and read some good news about someone’s thyroid medication—so thank you for sharing!
My endo worded it exactly…Old formula is back, new formula was not FDA approved, Coke Classic is back. He speaks a lot around the country and I trust his info is correct. During our discussion in June, he told me this and mentioned the “bloggers” knew about the change. I have seen other postings about the FDA not approving the formula because they changed the inactive ingredients. As far as a smell or taste, I cannot truthfully answer that, as I started with a cold on June 21, my first day on Armour, and it has been almost 3 weeks and I now have much more than a cold. I can only judge how I feel on this vs. what I had in Jan-Mar 2009. I just swallow the 60 mg each day with water. I just feel better. Thanks for the iron tip, I will try it, I have not been very diligent in taking it because of the upset.
Lori,
Are you serious? Your endo really said that Armour is back to the old formula? That would be like a gift like no other. Please, please do tell us more. How exactly did your endo word it? Did he hear this directly from Forest Labs or through another source? This would be like the news I’ve been wanting to hear like forever. It’s been misery trying to find something to replace my old Armour. You are a absolute jewel to come and share this news with us. Please fill us in on more details. Thank you!
Lori,
Oh, that would be such great news if that is the case. I can’t imagine life again with the “old” Armour. Could you let me know if the medication that you think is the new Armour if it has a distinct odor? And does it seem slightly sweet if you take a piece and taste it? I used to take it sublingually and the old Armour was sweeter than the new kind, because Forest Labs took away some of the sugar and added in some extra cellulose which is the filler that in my opinion is causing the new Armour not to work so well.
I’m so glad you’re feeling better and hope you can get over the bronchitis and other infections real soon. It would be a gift from God if the old Armour would return.
Oh, and on the iron pills, I take this type and they don’t hurt my stomach:
http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron
They are the only kind that doesn’t upset my intestinal system. The type my doctor prescribe made me so nauseous that I almost threw up when taking them. And they made my stomach hurt. The new kind I am taking is quite the opposite. I take them at night before I go to bed—-and I don’t notice a thing. It’s amazing to me because I have such a sensitive stomach.
Thank you so much for your info. I am having to reign in my possible excitement so as not to be disappointed if we all can’t get the old Armour. But wouldn’t that be fantastic if we could?
Saw my endo today and he confirmed that Armour is back to the old formula. The new formula was causing a lot of trouble and was not FDA approved. I do not know this for sure but logic would suggest that as a patient you have a right to the ingredients of your medication and this may be a way to tell If your Armour is the new or old formula. I also feel they are going to let any of the new pills stay out rather than lose money having to send any back. I have seen a listing that shows the old vs new ingredients somewhere on the internet. (Typing this on my blackberry) I feel that I may have the old formula because I feel leaner, less swollen and am not having any heart palps. I am taking 65mgs of iron every other day, suppose to each day but its makes me feel very nauseas, and 2-3 200 mg magnesium pills. My energy has not bounced back but I have bronchitis, ear and sinus infection. I do feel more rested and am not having such an issue getting up in the morning, and can fall asleep fairly easily at night. Ladies and the occasional gentlemen, I think we can all look forward to feeling normal.
Marilyn,
Low ferritin is a common problem in many hypothyroid patients and can make it difficult for you to be able to take enough thyroid hormone without feeling symptoms of being hyperthyroid. It’s good you have started supplementation of your iron if your ferritin was that low.
Here are a few things you can try:
1. Make sure to include Vitamin C with your iron supplement –this helps the iron to absorb better
2. Take iron at least 4 hours away from other supplements and/or medications (especially your thyroid medication and things including calcium)
3. Same thing goes for chocolate and coffee (have at least 4 hours apart from taking the iron supplement)
In terms of being retested it is ok to do so, but know that to raise iron stores it will probably take at least 6 months, possibly a year to see significant increases in your iron stores ie: ferritin
Hope this helps!
- Bethanie
My iron level is low or should I say my ferritin was very low about an 8 last time when I had my blood work done. I have been hypothyroid for about 7 years now. Started taking some iron supplements and they upset my stomach so I changed to one of the ones that a lady here recommended. They are much better and I don’t feel any symptoms at all in terms of the stomach upset. My question is, how long do I need to wait to feel better and/or to see my iron raise on the bloodwork? Should I get my iron (ferritin) retested in 4 weeks when I have my thyroid med levels checked again or should I wait longer?
Can’t believe this. I’ve been having trouble with the compounded thyroid medication also. Was on Armour thyroid then lost all my energy and my cholesterol went way up on it. Doctor wanted to try me on compounded but its not seemingly doing much good at all. I am going to ask about changing to the Nature Throid if I can get it locally. Anyone have any comments on the Nature Throid since they also changed their formula from what I heard?
Hello Judy,
Actually, I have heard of some other thyroid patients who also had increases in their TSH levels when using a different type of thyroid medication. This also happened to me when the old Armour Thyroid Medication was changed. I was actually even taking more of the new Armour thyroid in terms of my dose than the old one and my TSH kept increasing. It had to be because of the new filler.
Consequently, when using compounded thyroid medications there can be several different factors happening which could be causing your issues. Could you please find out what type of filler your compounding pharmacy uses and once you find that out, post it here? Also if you have your labs post them as well along with the ranges because that will help when giving you some input also.
Thanks for your posting Judy!
Hi to all you fellow thyroid patients,
For the past 6 weeks I’ve been taking a compounded version of Armour Thyroid which is prepared by the compounding pharmacy in my city. But I just had my labs done and instead of showing an improvement in my thyroid lab numbers, my TSH is going up instead of down. Has anyone else experienced this and if so what should I do?
Diana,
It seems almost impossible to lose any weight when I’m not on the right dose of thyroid medication. Talk about frustrating—it’s downright maddening. I went through the rounds with doctors also, and finally found one who added in a bit of T3 called (Cytomel) for me. I take it twice a day and although it is a very small amount, this has helped me lose those extra pounds that creeped up on me before I was diagnosed as hypothyroid. But until I added in the T3 nothing—I mean nothing would budge the weight. I don’t have any fish allergies, but my throat used to always feel very tight before I found out about the thyroid problem. When I’m on adequate thyroid medication my throat doesn’t bother me, but it sure did when I wasn’t on enough thyroid hormones. Glad you’re here and keep us updated on what you decide to do and how things are going.
Hi Diana,
Welcome to the group! I spent years as well–trying and trying to find a good doctor. It’s still not perfect for me, but I found that most of us “thyroid folk” have better luck with selecting a Doctor of Osteopath instead of an MD for our medical care. For some reason every single MD that I saw used to only look at the book when it came to labs. The DO’s (Doctor of Osteopaths) however, seemed to be a little more open minded and actually care what my simptoms were. I got that tip from one of the pharmacists at a compounding pharmacy close to where I lived. He said that the DO’s are trained more holistically and that I would probably get more results using a D.O.
I don’t have allergies to all fish, but I am sensitive to some. But the strangling feeling in the throat I can relate to. My labs were “fine” for years, but I knew something was wrong and I ended up with a very large goiter that had to be surgically removed. So the strangling thing is something to perhaps get a 2nd opinion on. What I finally had to do to get mine diagnosed was to go to a thyroid surgeon–he picked up immmediately upon exam that my thyroid needed to be removed….said he couldn’t believe others had missed it. I ended up not having surgery with him as I had to go a a large major medical center for some other care, and just had the other center take care of everything at once.
And for the weight struggle—absolutely can relate also, but if you’re able to lose on one dose of Synthroid and not another, and it’s such a small amount— I think I would try to find a DO who’d be willing to give you the other dose. If you have your lab numbers please post them along with the ranges and I can give you better help with how to intprepet the ranges. Most doctors I found weren’t really accurate with their intreptation of thyroid lab results, so getting some feedback on yours may be helpful for you. Glad you posted, and please update when you have time.
Cheers!
Aime
Hello to all Hypo-thyroid people.
I have had and still have many of the symptoms you have all discussed above, however, I have been able to get my symptoms under control without a prescription.
Synthroid .088 is just not doing it for me. Dr. won’t increase to .1mcg – which I feel much better on.
This has been a struggle for me for many many years. the Dr. will only go by the “man- made” scale to regulate dosage of meds (no matter what type you are taking). I was doctor hopping for years and became very frustrated (they don’t really listen) and it became very expensive to have all those test run.
I decided to research for natural products (herbs, supplements, plants etc.)
In doing so, I have found several supplements that are actually helping me with relief of constant tiredness, sleeping better, leg cramps, brain fog, knee, back and other odd pains. BUT – nothing yet for the weight gain problem. I work out hard, on a regular basis, so it is not from lack of movement. I don’t eat processed foods, no soda, no caffeine. HELP! (I could drop weight on synthroid .1mcg)
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
Anyone ever get a strangling feeling around their throat?
How about allergic to all FISH?
Thanks for listening.
Kacie,
I’m glad you brought this issue up about hospitalization and taking thyroid medicine. I had an emergency surgery to remove my gall bladder about 18 months ago and I had to stay in the hospital longer than anticipated and no one could figure out what to do about my natural thyroid medication. The doctor wrote me a prescription for Synthroid…ugggggh, I can’t take Synthroid or Levothyroxine, they both make me ill, and so trying to recover from surgery and having issue with my thyroid was not a fun experience. Live and learn I guess–but I also wanted to comment about this so someone else wouldn’t have to go through such misery.
Hi everyone, Last summer I was in a very bad accident and had my Armour thyroid medication with me (a few doses in a travel pill holder) in the car, but when I was taken to the hospital the staff called the person I had listed as my emergency contact person and he was unable to tell them the dose of the medication I was taking and any other medications that I was prescribed. Although I was only taking the Armour I was also taking several vitamin/mineral supplements which they needed to know about and since I hadn’t kept my emergency person updated on all this, he was unable to help. Now, I keep a written sheet in my purse of my pertinent info, including my thyroid medication dose and the vitamins I’m taking so that should anyone need this info, it is easily accessible.
Perhaps this info could help someone else. I have traveling on my mind with all the summer vacations etc…and wanted to share with the group here.
Melissa,
I saw your message a few days ago and started to reply..then got bogged down in the holiday stuff..had company coming in etc, so here is my reply…albeit rather delayed.
I have heard of people having heart issues with the new Armour so that part is not unusual, but because having any type of symptoms related to your heart is so frightening, I think it’s definitely wise to check it out further and/or get a 2nd opinion if you need to because I know it would worry me if I had those things going on.
If you could please post your actual lab results with the exact ranges of the labs that you have, then I’m sure someone here could give you more feedback on perhaps things to consider and or do with regards to your thyroid issues. I know you said some of them were “lost” but see if you can post the ones you do have. When you post your labs please list your value, along with the lab ranges so that someone can give you a better, more informed response.
Without seeing your numbers I can tell you that alot of people have palpitations and speeding, racing heart symptoms when their ferritin is too low. If you need to get new labs drawn and need help with the exact names of the lab tests that you should ask for, please let me know and I will post them here for you.
And in the future, you can always ask that you be given a copy of your labs imediately when they come back. I know some others who have “lost” labs from the past and the only way to prevent that from happening is that each and every time you have your lab work drawn, make sure you get a copy. I just ask that my doctor put that it is ok to fax the result directly to the patient (ie: me) and then I can ask the lab for the result without having to go through the wait for my doctor. Some will do that, others won’t, but regardless, you are entitled to have a copy of your labwork either from your doctor or directly from the lab.
Lori,
Great info about using the baking soda as a filler for the natural thyroid medication that is compounded. And thanks for posting the info about the Braun Pharmacy in Chicago. I’m sure that will help those of us who are in the Chicago area to have a resource for a place to get thyroid medication that does not use cellulose as a filler. My cousin emailed me yesterday with another source for thyroid patients who are in Austin, Texas. Peoples Pharmacy in Austin also offers compounded natural thyroid medication and they use Acidophilus as a filler which will not interfere with the absorption of the thyroid medication either. I’d be interested in hearing from anyone else whose using compounded thyroid medication if you would share what type of filler your pharmacy uses and where it’s located.
And Lori, if you could let me know if the honey works better for you with mixing it with your Armour, I’d love to know how that works. I’m using Nature Throid now but would love to get back to the old Armour—but seeing as that’s probably not possible I wonder how the adding of sugar or honey is working for everyone. Anyway, would welcome your comments on how you do with that. Thanks again for the info.
Braun Pharmacy in Chicago compounds natural thyroid and only uses baking soda as a filler. I spoke to the pharmacist about the fillers and he told me that he attended a conference and learned that baking soda is the best as it does not interfere at all. I am also going to try crushing the Armour and mixing with honey. And if that does no help, I am compounding, even though it is more expensive.
Robin, I know what you mean about doctor’s prescribing one thing to cover up another. I NEVER had issues with my cholesterol, yet all of a sudden my LDL went up and my PCP immediately thought I should take statin medications. I refused because of the side effects and because I didn’t want to “sing to his tune” I felt I was labeled as “uncooperative” and he barely addressed any of my other concerns. Turns out that although my TSH was “in range” it was far higher than what most of the new guidelines are saying that TSH should be, but my previous doc was looking only at the numbers for what his lab used. Geez..it’s soooo confusing sometimes.
I was on the new Armour as well, and had to change to Nature Throid which works well for me. It was hard to get as well but I ordered my Nature Throid from a pharmacy in Arizona which normally always has it in stock. I’m at work now, but will post later with the name of it for you. You can order Efra direct from the manufacturer in Canada if you like. I think most people are not using their US pharmacists to get it, but rather, ordering it directly from Canada. There’s a post somewhere here about how to ask your doctor to write the prescription. I’ll find that for you and will update here again when I’m not at work. I can also relate to the weight gain….uggghhh it’s awful when the thyroid is not working well.
One thing you can try with the new Armour is to take it with some honey or some sugar. Crush the tablets between two spoons and try adding just a bit of sugar. Some people say this helps with the absorption issue. I had such severe headaches with the new Armour that I just couldn’t take it anymore. Others are having good results with compounded but you must ask your pharmacy what fillers they use for compounding or order from one of the pharmacies out of state but still in the US who doesn’t use fillers in their Thyroid Medication. I have the name of one in Texas that does not, so if you need that…let me know I can post it also. I don’t use the compounded because it is more expensive than just getting the regular dessicated thyroid tablets.
Gotta get back to work, but I’m glad you posted.
I wanted to see if anyone else has had an experience like I am having right now.
I have been taking Armour Thyroid for about 20 years and have been on the 60 mg/1gr dose most of this time.
I seems some years back I needed a little more but drs not knowing much about Armour gave me 30 mg which was always to much and had to stop due to heart palps.
So anyway about a year ago or so it came up I needed more again so I was told to do 60mg one day and then 90 the next. So I did this for a while and felt better but got worried as dr didn’t know much about the Armour and said this is how he used the Synthroid so I called Armour myself and talked to one of their pharmacist and he told me not to use it that way and to just take a 15 mg in addition to my 60 mg.
I didn’t even know the 15mg existed and of course neither did my dr.
So I started taking the 60mg and the 15mg and was doing wonderful on it. Feeling better than I have felt in quite some time.
But now here I am a year or so later and I went in and had blood work done and it was way high. I had been having major issues with sleeping and a few other issues but I pushed them off as being menopausal.
So I really don’t know when my levels got to high due to the fact the dr only checked my levels once a year since I had been on it for so long plus he left and I ended up with a new dr who doesn’t know anything about my history, me and can’t seem to find any of it on the computer for some reason.
Oh and by the way while all the shortage was going on I was going from one pharmacy to another who ever had any I would get it from them and I ended up splitting a 30 mg to get my extra 15mg for sometime .
But then when I went to the dr this last time I was able to get the 60mg and the 15mg. I was excited cause I thought I’d start feeling really good again.
WRONG!!! a couple days after starting on the 60 mg and 15mg I started having my heart speed up and beating much harder. Not racing or palps but just faster and harder where I could feel it. I had some weird beats every so often and a mild feeling of tightning. I couldn’t sleep as this kept me awake even when I was dead tired. I’d get so tired after awhile I’d start passing out from not sleep and sleep for an hour here and an hour there. I was also having diarrhea issues which I am always constipated. So knew something was up.
But before I put it all together the dr called a few days after my apt and told me to cut back on my thyroid and go down to 60 mg. So I did but a week after that I was still having the heart issues. I kept thinking they’d go away once it leveled out but they didn’t so I went back to dr.
He took more blood work and told me it was more than likely my thyroid meds esp since they were suppose to be no higher the 4 or .4 or some such and they were at 10.
He also wanted me to wear a heart harness for 24 hours to see exactly what my heart was doing just in case.
So I did. But the day I wore it everything was a little calmer cause I had skipped one day taking my Armour and then taken 45 mgs that day.
So I did better that night and actually felt good the next day but the dr told me to get back on 60 mg so I did and I am back to having issues.
I am not going to continue on the 60mg as it is causing issues still so I am going to not take for a day or so and then try 45mg and see how I do.
I took 45mg yesterday thinking I would do better but I had same issues last night.
I called and talked to Armour pharmacist again and they ask what dr said to do I told him and he said he would either get off totally and let my numbers even out and start over OR he would cut back to 15mg or maybe 30mg and go from there.
He also said that it was unusual to have to cut back as time goes by . He said usually you have to add as you get older so he was a little confuse with that.
But I was taking a couple supplements that might of effected it I guess.
I was taking as dr told me to stop these too.
Moducare and L-theanine. But the Moducare I had been taking for years now and the other from about 8 months to a year regularly. Used to take it for a while when needed and stop.
SO I honestly don’t know what I should be doing and clearly my drs don’t either so if anyone has had any experience with anything like this would love to hear from ya.
Anyway I just wanted to see if anyone else has gone through anything like this or if anyone knows where I might find some good info on this due to the fact that my drs don’t really know to much about the Armour and have always tried to push the Synthroid on me but I keep telling them NO!
Well thanks for reading my post and look forward to any opinions and info.
melissa
I’ve just read this whole page. Wow. I’ve had problems with my thyroid for years. Finally..6 years ago, my pcp covered up most of my symptoms with adderall, sadly~it is very addicting, and I was still not healthy~just active,(speed will do that to a person). I quit the adderall, and that dr in January. In March, my new dr put me on Armour. Now, hearing what you have all gone through, I want to try the old Armour! In the two months of taking Armour I am painfully exhausted, and 35 pounds heavier! I am so frustrated. I also have Chiari Malformation and Scoliosis…I cant afford to be this tired or this heavy, it will kill me!
Where do you get Efra..does your pharmacist order it? Has Anyone had a good experience with the new armour?
It has been 5 days since I have been taking Armour,which may be the old formula, I have lost 3 lbs. And my period just came yesterday and is light like it was when I was taking Armour in 2008. This may be a bit soon to say anything for sure but I feel completely different. I could not tolerate Synthroid in any form, Thyrolar was useless and Nature-Throid was not helpful at all. I am really hopeful that this change is true. It will be 2 years this September since being diagnosed and 17 years since my first symptoms started. If I get anymore information I will be sure to share it.
I saw another patient’s labs where they said if you change the type of thyroid medicine that you are taking that you may have to reduce the dose.
1.75 or Armour was = 2.0 Efra and 2.25 of Nature-Throid
For me, I take Nature-Throid and add in ferritin because my iron is always so low.
Put my vote in for bringing back the old Armour as well.
Efra works good for me, I haven’t felt so well in a long, long time. I waited too long and kept thinking that the new Armour would work for me but it didn’t. I tried everything, swallowing it, taking it sublingually, chewing the tabs, adding sugar, addiing honey, increasing my doset etc. Nothing, nothing worked at all, so I changed to the Efra. Feel really good now. Had horrible symptoms also when I tried levothyroxine: join pain, brain fog, depression, swelling.
My throat and neck are always tight with the Efra also, it is maddening. I had all the symptoms you all are talking about, except that I didn’t gain weight. But I never gained any weight from my thyroid issues. I have the brain fog in addition to everything that was listed. When I was on the old Armour — all my hypo symptoms went away. Please bring it back Forest Labs……
I agree..same thing happened to me. My experience with Erfa wasn’t good either. I had constantly a feeling of tightness in my throat and headaches with Erfa. If Armour Thyroid came back I would be the happiest woman on earth.
Once I couldn’t get Armour anymore I went to the Erfa Thyroid from Canada. I had read alot of people think it’s like the old Armour but I gained weight on it, had mucle and joint aches/paines, swollen joints, bloating, no energy, PMS, and hair falling out. Dry skin as well so basically, it was not good for me. I’d give anything if the old Armour came back.
Hello everyone,
There’ve been several emails from our readers saying that their doctors have told them that Armour Thyroid (the original formula) may be coming back. Forest Labs has denied that the old forumla is returning but remember, they also denied that they were changing it back in the day when the “original” Armour Thyroid was still available.
Now’s your chance: Have you heard any news that there’s a chance Forest may return to the original thyroid medication? If so, where did you here this from?
If you haven’t heard anything but want a chance to make your voice heard, now’s your time. Were you on the “old” Armour thyroid and doing well? Would you start taking Armour Thyroid again if the company reverted back to the “old” formula? We’re talking about Thyroid Medication today and any topic on thyroids is ok. We look forward to hearing from you!
Armour is my favorite thyroid medicine and also was just terrific for me after my thyroidectomy for a large goiter that wouldn’t stop growing 5 years ago. After taking Armour it was the first time in my life where my weight wasn’t a struggle. I had always eaten healthy and exercised, however, before Armour, the weight was impossible to maintain. This changed when I got on the Armour thryoid. Since they changed it…I have tried several other medicines and different combos. It’s not that I’m miserable on the other choices, but I don’t feel as great as I did before and the weight issue is a struggle again. I would be ecstatic if the company were to return to the old formula.
My thyroidectomy was back in 1993 and I started taking Armour Thyroid immediately after. I didn’t have any isues at all until the reformulation. After Forest changed the Armour I crashed and my TSH went way up and I had a severe return of hypothyroidism.
My doctor prescribed the compounded natural thyroid powder for me and I had to change phamarcies in order to find one that didn’t use cellulose as a filler. I finally feel better. I also began taking adrenal fatigue supplements and my strength, and stamina is returning. Anyone who is having trouble with the new Armour may want to look into compounded, but just ask questions about the fillers your compounding pharmacy uses and/or find one that doesn’t use any filler.
Do you seriously think Armour Thyroid Could Go Back to Original?
That would be an amazing thing. I took the “old” Armour for 10 years and never felt better in my entire life. When they changed everything went downhill, weight issues again, tiredness, fatigue, oh my gosh, I was exhausted. My endo checked my TSH and it was over 25. This was a disaster for me. I’m using compounded natural thyroid now. Having ok results I guess. I tried the Canadian, tried the Nature Throid, and nothing has the results I got with the old Armour. I so very much hope that the company is going to revert back to their original formula as Lori had posted. Lori please keep us informed if you hear anything else.
Lori,
Oh my goodness, it would be soooooo great if Forest went back to the original Armour. I don’t know about color variations but I do know for sure that the “old” Armour smelled worse which is a good thing….meaning that the one that had the distinct odor was the “good one” the original Armour and the new Armour is definitely not so pungent. The old Armour also was sweeter than the new version. I took mine sublingually and the old Armour definitely had a sweetness to it that the new one does not.
I’m with you on never feeling better like with the old Armour. I can’t use the new one…does’t work for me, my labs won’t stay stable. My TSH goes very high with the new Armour, even though I was on the same exact dose! I’ve tried compounded doesn’t seem to work as well for me, and am now on Nature Throid which is alright but not as good for me as the old Armour. If you don’t mind sharing who is your endo? Are you still on the new Armour and are your labs stable? What changes have you noticed if you’re still on the new Armour in terms of how you feel? Is your endo keeping everyone on the new Armour still or does he have a backup plan?
Thanks soooooo very much for your post. I was absolutely beside myself with potential joy…gotta reign that in so I’m not disappointed if Forest doesn’t return to the original formula, but one can always dream right? Really would love to know what you’re taking now and how you’re doing.
Cheers!
Alexandra
Has anyone been told that Armour was going back to the previous formula? I just met with my endo this past Monday and that is what he told me. I re-questioned him and used the Coke Classic and New Coke analogy. I called Forest and the rep denied it but they also denied anything was wrong or different with the formula in 2009. I had started Armour in Nov 2008 and took it for 60 days and it was magic!! Then I got my Jan 2009 refill, opened the bottle and noticed it looked and smelled different. My 1st two prescriptions had a pale taupey pink color and my Jan. bottle was more beige and smelled different. Does anyone know if my 1st scripts were even Armour? Where there color variations? All I know is I have never felt as good as I did those 1st two months and hope that my endo is correct in saying its going back to the old formula. Also he speaks around the country so I am guessing he has some inside scoop. Keeping my fingers crossed!!!
Hi, My story is that I was taking the old Armour thyroid and then “crashed” after the change in formula. When my doctor checked my labs, not only was my TSH way elevated at over 8 but my T3 went very very low. So I actually had to go back on synthroid and added T3 in the form of Cytomel every day. Initially we tried .25 mcg of Cytomel, but this wasn’t enough for me and I’m now up to .75 mcg. Finally feeling better and having good results with both my labs and how I feel. My blood pressure, which was high after the Armour Thyroid Medication change, is back down to normal levels. I also struggled with asthma which is now resolving, so anyone who’s having trouble getting regulated on their thyroid medications, please think about talking to your doctor about adding some T3 in the form of Cytomel to see if it could benefit you.
Hello Linda,
Thank you very much for your help. I’ll try the iron supplement and will post my labs when I get them redrawn. It was actually interesting that my Nurse Practitioner actually noticed the ferritin being low. My previous physician had said everything was “normal” so I didn’t really know that it could be something to be concerned about until yesterday. Guess I have a lot to learn still about the thyroid! Hope you have a good day also.
Renee,
It’s good to hear that you had a good visit with your Nurse Practitioner regarding your thyroid issues. I’ve had a good experience with the Erfa Thyroid from Canada. Just to let you know, I had to increase my dose of Erfa by 1/2 grain over what I was taking with the old Armour. I was told that there are different amounts of the T3 and T4 in Erfa compared to what was and is in the new Armour so don’t be afraid to talk to your Nurse Practitioner about retesting and keeping in mind how you feel after you start the Erfa to make sure that you are on the best dose of thyroid medication.
In terms of the iron, I really like this iron http://www.hospitalsoup.com/iron
My ferritin was also quite low, seems many thyroid patients also are blessed with low iron. (Smile) Mine has come up to about 67 right now after taking the iron supplement, but I had to try several in order to find one that didn’t make me sick to my stomach.
It would be interesting to see if you can post your lab values after your first check when using the Erfa Thyroid. I’m always interested to see how everyone else does. Enjoy your day and congrats again on your good news!
Today I went to my Nurse Practitioner and I’m so excited, she was willing to write me a prescription to try the Canadian Thyroid. I, like so many of you, had heart palpitations with the new Armour, although I did fine on the old one for over 5 years. My visit today was good, she actually listened to me and also thinks that part of my issue is that my ferritin is too low. It’s only 14 with a range which goes to 291 from the lab, so she wants me to start taking iron supplements as well. Anyone know any that don’t irritate your stomach? The last time I was on iron was when I was pregnant, and I recall it made my stomach feel terrible. Any suggestions are welcomed! Thanks.
Hello Angela,
I’m glad that you posted as well. I am soooooooooooo tired of doctors saying everything’s fine when there’s obviously something wrong. Sometimes I just want to tell them…”do you think I actually enjoy coming to the doctor’s office?” Believe me, with 3 kids, a husband, two dogs and a cat, I think I have better things to do then hang out at the physician’s office! LOL. My story is somewhat similar to yours except that I never took Synthroid, but I recently changed docs and my new one is ordering both the TPO and TG antibodies. He said that we could test them one at a time to find out if I had Hashimotos, but that if we did the TPO and it came back negative, then we’d still need to do the TG antibodies which I wrote down as Thyroglobulin Antibodies (TG) …because he said one way or another I’d need to know if I had antibodies or not.
Anyway, just wanted to say hello and to thank you for your post. If you don’t mind please come back and update on what your TPO results were and I’ll do the same when I get my labs back. I’m glad you’re feeling better with the iodine. Bet that is a huge relief. One of my friends with thyroid issues does have positive antibodies : Both TPO and the TG and she started taking selenium which she said she’s been told can reduce the antibodies if you have them. So maybe that would help you in the event that your’s come back as positive. Have a super weekend!
Well, thank you to everyone who has posted. I’ve learned a lot. I’ve been diagnosed hypo for 13 yrs & was on Armor for awhile with a doctor who diagnosed by muscle testing & was excellent. Then he retired & I switched to synthroid, which believe it or not, I actually felt better on. About a year ago my thryroid started acting up again, I gained about 15 lbs & a lot of my symptoms came back. When I got a complete thryoid panel done, my doctor told me that I was just getting older & that my tests were fine. Grrr…exactly why I can’t stand most Western medicine & the doctors that go by blood tests alone. How about symptoms? My natural doctor has ordered a TPO which I’m taking on Monday. Since I saw my regular doctor I have been FBing some friends & decided to try out adding an iodine/iodide supplement. I’m taking about 11-12 drops a day of Iosol Formula II & it has made a huge difference! I’ve lost 4 lbs & have energy again. I’m warm, like I was in my 20′s (in the 40′s now). I can think clearly again–yeah!!! I’m also taking thyroid supplements from Wellness Resources–a Thyroid Helper & a Daily Energy Multiple Vitamin that specifically supports thyroid. I’m reticent about completely getting off thryoid meds, but am changing to NatureThroid & see if adding T3 & T4 naturally will also help. Has anyone out there gotten better results with Erfa from Canada than NatureThroid?
I’m glad I found this blog, and appreciate all feedback. Finding my way….
Angela
I had an appointment with my endocrinologist today to follow up on my lab results. Right now I’m taking 75 mcgs of Synthroid and I’m still very exhausted. I asked her about adding some T3 to my prescribed meds to see if this would alleviate some of the difficulties I’m having with fatigue. She kept telling me that T4 was all I needed and that I’m just slightly hypo, so I shouldn’t be having an issue.
I showed her the research about the new study that came out saying that we need BOTH T3 and T4 and all I got were blank stares and she told me not to believe everything I found online. But this was a reputable STUDY!!! I couldn’t believe it, just because I found the study online doesn’t mean it was done by backyard researchers. Oh my goodness, it was quite the experience.
Can anyone give me some additional info about why it is so important to have both T4 and T3? I’m no match for my doc when she goes into her tirades, but I can’t help but think there has to be something that could be done so that I can get to feeling better.
Katie,
Thank you very much for the info and help. I’ll post my thyroid labs later today after I get home from work. I’m glad there’s more to the picture than just the TSH. Otherwise, I was thinking it would be “normal” to feel this exhausted all the time. If I can ever get this thyroid fixed maybe I’ll feel “normal” again! LOL. Appreciate your willingness to take a look at my lab results.
Alexandra,
Could you please post your Labs and when posting, please list the result along with your lab’s ranges so that you can get some feedback on them. It is unfortunately common for doctors who are not well educated on thyroid issues to think erroneously that dosing thyroid medications should be done strictly by the TSH. The most accurate means of dosing thyroid medication is to analyze the FREE T3, FREE T4, Reverse T3, then take into account your symptoms, how you feel and also the TSH, in conjunction with the entire clinical picture.
Also, could you post whether or not you still have a thyroid gland? This also matters with regards to getting feedback on your labs.
Hello,
Today I had my doctor’s appointment and although I am exhausted—still on the new Armour, he said my TSH is right exactly where it needs to be. He also said my T3 was a little low and the T4 was a little high but because the TSH is “perfect” he isn’t making any changes in my thyroid dosing. Can anyone help? I don’t seem to be able to function on this dose.
I was at a thyroid support group this morning and the question came up about what things can cause an elevated heart rate with regards to the thyroid and medications. It can be other medical issues, but generally when dealing with thyroid one of the group facilitators, who was a Registered Nurse, said that in some cases with regards to one’s thyroid tachycardia (ie: fast heart rate) can be caused by : 1) Adrenal Issues: elevated adrenaline in the bloodstream 2) High Cortisol – also adrenal in nature, 3) Low Salt 4) Too Much Thyroid Hormone 5) Issues with how the body processes the T3
Just wanted to pass this info onto everyone here.
Add me to the list of you all who feel you did so well on the old Armour and were then miserable after the change in formulation. I was also a GREAT example of someone with a thyroid problem who did fabulous on the OLD Armour. Then I tried the Nature Throid and also did pretty well on that also. Then I couldn’t find it anywhere locally. I tried CVS, Walgreens, Safeway, Costco and couldn’t find it. I now hear that Nature Throid has also reformulated. Can you believe this? After the fiasco with Armour now the company that makes Nature Throid also has to do this? So my doctor put me on a compounded thyroid medicine but I am having trouble with that too. I think it’s because my compounding pharmacy is using a filler that has cellulose in it. So I’ve had it up to here..with all the changes etc with thyroid meds.
I finally got my doctor to write a prescription for the Canadian Thyroid, and low and behold to me it feels like the OLD Armour. I can’t believe it. The dose is the same as what I was taking, so if anyone is also in the same boat, don’t hesitate to try something else. It’s the “details” I believe on what’s in these meds as a filler that can cause so many of us to struggle. But I’m really happy with the Erfra from Canada.
My history is that I’ve taken Armour thyroid (the old kind) for 6.5 years. Started having trouble with it after it was changed even though I didn’t know it was because of the new thyroid formula. I thought I may be having issues with my adrenal glands (ie: related to cortisol and the thyroid issues) but I’m not sure how to tell.
What things can cause high heart rates and what should I get tested when I visit my doctor again?
I am writing in to let you all know that I finally feel better with regards to my thyroid issues. My family doctor is very good and wants me to have Cytomel (T3) which she just added to my thyroid medication regimen. I can’t believe the difference. I feel so much better and am taking 25 mcgs of Cytomel for the past week. I also began to add some sugar to my Armour tablets (crushed them between 2 spoons with a small amount of sugar) and I think that helped to get my body to absorb it better. But the most change I saw was when the Cytomel was added. Have already lost a few of the pounds that I gained since Armour changed their formulation and my energy is fantastic! If other people with thyroid issues are having difficulties with conversion issues or absorption issues I would definitely suggest trying to see if your doctor will consider supplementing with Cytomel (T3).
I’ve been reading all your info here and need to find some other thyroid medicine other than Armour to take. I had lost more than 65 pounds after finally being diagnosed with a thyroid problem. Took Armour before they changed it, and was working out, lots of energy and doing very well until they changed it. Now I can’t find Nature Throid or anything locally and looking for some options for what to do about my thyroid medicine.
Anne,
I was wondering how your doctor’s appointment went, and thank you for the update. I am so sorry that your physician didn’t take the necessary time with you. What a letdown that must have been, and with being exhausted from thyroid issues and having to wait so long in the office itself–really difficult. I am however, really happy to hear that you’re feeling better, and think you’re definitely very smart to consider T3. In fact, there are some patients who actually do well with synthetic thyroid medication (ie: Levothyroxine or Synthroid) which is T4, and then adding in a prescription T3 which is Cytomel. Everyone is so different. Sometimes the reason people don’t do well on the natural thyroid is that the dose is too high and/or the doctor didn’t suggest splitting the doseage. Or, it can be the difference in fillers in different medications. There are soooooooooooooo many things that can affect how each medication could affect us.
And timing is also important for thyroid medications. Sometimes taking T3 at night can cause insomnia, so it really depends upon you, your body and how you react. I do know however some thyroid patients who take their T3 mid afternoon if they feel really tired mid-afternoon. But good for you for researching and finding out about the endocrinologist with the work done on T3. I had a friend with a brain tumor and her tumor was able to shrink not by changing medications, or overall amounts of the medications she took, but by simply changing the time of day that she took each dose. That was amazing to me!
Thanks for the update, please keep on posting with your progress. Good to hear from you!
Hi Kathy: Thanks for all your suggestions, vit D, specially. Well, my new Dr apptmnt was a disaster…. had to wait 2 & half hour (and I had an apptmnt!!). The waiting was too long. He finally came to see me, he looked frazzled, and tired . It was at the end of the day by that time, and I was not given any time to explain things. Had brought in copies of tests, my medical history, etc etc and the girl had scanned all that in the computer. Quite impatient he asked me what he could do for me, so I thought very quickly and said, probably a prescription for synthroid. Which he gave me. The last natural thyroid had affected me so badly, but especially my heart. I know it gave me PVC’s (premature ventricular contractions) besides the palpitations, and the jitters, difficulty breathing. So I am on 50 mcg and my heart feels fine now, no problems, my emotional well being is also much better, but I am still very tired. Today I had to lounge around, since yesterday I ran errands. Asking for certain tests… I could not even get that far, it was a quick few minute visit, and that with a new patient!! So I will have to go back to my own Dr. I read about a European endocrinologist, Wilmar Wiersinga, who gives patients synthetic thyroid medication in am and some natural (T-3) at night, and achieved good results with his patients. I made notes and will speak with my Dr about that. I just need to get over this exhaustion and tiredness………. Thank you again Kathy!!! Will keep you posted ……
Hi Jessica,
Yes, I’ve also noticed that the new armour doesn’t smell the same way. I know Forest Labs, the manufacturer of Armour Thyroid says that all they changed is the filler but I don’t know what’s going on. All I know is that I had been taking the old Armour thyroid for over 12 years, and felt very good on it, but after they changed it, everything went south. And I don’t think it was because I was getting older either. LOL. I think there were some gals that were trying to raise some money to get one of the new batches analyzed, but I don’t know if they ever had enough to make that happen. It’s a darn shame that so many thyroid patients have been negatively affected. I’m still not completely satisfied with the Westthyroid, so I may try the Canadian thyroid next. Sigh…
Did anyone ever wonder why the smell of the NEW Armour is so weird and artificial.? Almost like it was sprayed on.
Has anyone used good Porcine Thyroid USP from a reputable compounding pharmacy and noticed that it smells like real pigs? Even my dog wants into that bottle. But not so for the Armour.
HAS ANYONE THOUGHT THAT THE NEW ARMOUR MAY BE SYNTHROID???
Cindy and all,
Breaking up the thyroid dose in two is a great idea. I tried that about 4 weeks ago and it really seemed to help. I don’t really have heart palpitations but I can tell if I take all my thryoid medicine (the whole dose) in the morning that it seems to make me feel too shaky or something. Splitting it into two times a day has worked just beautifully for me.
Hi everybody,
I’m writing from work so this will be quick. I used to have heart palpitations alot when Forest Labs changed their Armour Thyroid formula and it took me several months to get over it. What helped for me was to #1) Change Thyroid Medication. I’m now taking the Canadian Thyroid and am doing well on it, but it didn’t happen overnight
#2. I had to split my dose. My system didn’t do well with the entire dose of thyroid medicine in the morning, so I take 1/2 dose in the morning, and 1/2 around 2:30 pm or so and make sure not to take it with food or calcium, iron or anything that can make the thyroid medicine ineffective.
#3. My iron (blood levels were good) but my ferritin was very, very low. It took me a long time to get this raised, but I finally got it up to around 65 and I feel much better
#4. I also take Magnesium at night and it helps with reducing my blood pressure, and I don’t have any heart palpitations anymore
I never had them with the old Armour, but sure did have them when changing to the new one, so it must be something in the formula causing it, or maybe just not getting enough medication because of the filler change. Anyway, I’m much better now and with lots of patience–I hope you all can get everything worked out also.
I’m taking Armour Thyroid but not doing very well on it. I’m tired, but my blood pressure is going up. I have asthma and it is getting worse. My doc added the T3 in the form of Cytomel that I am now taking, but it makes my blood pressure go up when I take it. Anyone else on Cytomel and Armour or have any suggestions?
Hi Lisa,
I’m not sure about the Reverse T3 for the Thyroid Test, but someone I met on this site usually checks in each day and I’m sure she will know about it as she has helped me several times before.
I do however, know something about the adrenal glands and thyroid issues, and I think it is important for us to also get cortisol tested because if you have adrenal glands that are not functioning very well then it can also thyroid patients to have trouble, particularly in raising our thyroid medications.
Another thing that can effect whether or not your body can utlize the thyroid hormones is selenium which you can buy over the counter. Always try to buy a high quality supplement as I’ve found I’m sensitive to alot of the fillers and things that are in some of the cheapo supplements that you would get at a Walgreens or CVS type place. Hope that helps and that you get an answer on your T3 Question soon.
Hi,
I have a question on the thyroid testing. Could someone please help me with understanding the Reverse T3? I am also having trouble raising my thyroid medication without feeling jittery and getting heart palpitations and I saw here that Reverse T3 testing should be done which I have never had. I’m wondering if I should ask my doctor to test my thyroid the next time with the Reverse T3 test but if I could find out more about why I should ask for this it would be helpful.
Thank you very much for all the good info about the thyroid. I’ve been on Synthroid for only a few months and it was awful for me, so now I’m trying the natural, but having trouble raising my dose.
Hi Anne,
You’re so welcome!
Just wanted to say good luck with your doctor’s appointment this week. If you need any help with your lab results once your thyroid and iron tests come back feel free to post them. The big thing for me with so much of this was that although some of my tests in the past were “within range”, once I got certain labs including my ferritin into an “optimal range” I felt much better. It’s been an ongoing process to get to this point though.
You know if you want to add something else to your list:, there is another lab test that can be helpful. Vitamin D levels in many of us are quite low and low vitamin D can cause muscle aches, depression, tiredness, as well as affect the immune system which for thyroid patients can be quite detrimental. Unfortunately, it’s another one of those things that doctors are not normally routinely testing and even if they do, even with all the new research out there that has been published, many of the doctors are only looking to see if your vitamin D levels are “within range” which is not good enough.
My vitamin D level came back at 21 (range of 20-100) and because my physician wasn’t knowledgeable about this, he said my levels were “fine”. It’s very important that vitamin D be at the upper end of the normal range …generally around 70% of the upper limit is what you should be opting for so the minimum level that my vitamin D should have been was 56. And anywhere from 56-100 would have been optimal. I noticed a big change when I started taking a good liquid vitamin D supplement and after many months—takes a long time to raise your Vitamin D levels, it’s finally where it needs to be. The test to properly test one’s vitamin D levels is called
Vitamin D, 25 Hydroxy. Sometimes the physicians order the wrong test, so you want to make sure that you write this down also if you’re interested in having yours tested.
Ok, enough about labs and ranges etc. I’m sorry you’ve had to go through all these changes as well with your thyroid medications and hope you have a good doctor’s visit. Please update on how things go for you.
Hugs,
Kathy
I have an appointment this Tuesday with a new doctor. I will tell him about the ferritin also!! I was on the old Armour for two weeks, as they tried me out on it. then I could not get another refill because it was taken off the market. The Westhroid was tolerated much better but only up to 65 mg a day. They can not obtain it now and that is why I received the Naturthroid. It has been a terrible few months now. I only tolerate about 16 mg a day and am awfully tired and my whole body aching. My system is completely mixed up, I want to sleep heavy in the am till about noon!! At night have trouble falling asleep. If I take more than 16 mg a day I get jittery. My heart is affected if I do not take anything or if I take too much. Am planning to morrow to write a lot of things down so I will not forget Tuesday!!! Thanks, Kathy!!
Hi Anne,
I am on the Canadian Thyroid now..for me it has worked almost just like the old Armour. But after I started having trouble with the new Armour I took the NatureThroid sublingually, but I had to do the following to it in order to get it to dissolve more easily and into my system.
I crushed the tablets using two spoons, but some people use a pill crusher and then I added a little bit of sugar and a few drops of water to make a paste. Then I used the paste sublingually and it seemed to work ok for me. What’s so frustrating about all of this is that is seems like each time you change a medication…you have to re-adjust the dose and/or see if the new one is working ok for you.
Were you ever on the old Armour? Did all the previous meds inlcuding the Westhroid give you the jitters? For me, I could never tolerate enough thyroid medication until I got my ferritin levels raised. And even then I had to go really slowly. I’m feeling pretty well now, but like everyone else…it sure has been a long journey getting there, and such a pain when the thyroid manufacturers go and change the formulas on us.
I’d love to hear how you’re doing if you don’t mind updating as you find out what works for you. Don’t think I would’ve ever gotten through this if it weren’t for everyone sharing info as my doctors sure weren’t the best help with thyroid issues.
Thanks Robyn & Kathy: Just learned I am not the only one who has problems with Naturthroid… I also experienced heart problems… very debilitating, and can not take more than 32 mg right now… and my Dr wants me to take 132 mg per day….(as per my results after lab work, he told me) . Was on Levoxyl for 20 years, then the endo took me off that, then they removed half of my thyroid.. was not needed actually as nodules were fine. Also have heart problems & a pacemaker. History of atrial fib but take natural magnesium (liquid) twice a day to control that. (about 4 hours after I take the Naturthroid). One year ago I went back on thyroid meds, no longer synthetic but first Armour’s, then Westhroid, now Naturthroid which I do not tolerate it seems. Also had with this last med the extreme nervousness, felt very jittery, trouble breathing and I figured out I was overdosed (on 65 mg and my dr wants me to have 132 mg???) Went off it completely, but now I am tired again and feeling like a yo-yo. So, I will have to try to adjust myself I think as I have been to my Dr already too many times…… My question: has anybody tried to use the natural thyroid by taking it sub-lingual???
Thanks Kathy…I have all my tests and they were midrange on the ft3 and ft4 and bottom .4 on TSH…major palps so have been off N/T for three weeks now and am going to try a compounded T4 next. Also do not have Hachi’s …so…seems to be the N/T for now anyways. But…I do appreciate all the work you put into a reply to me…
Hi Robyn,
Saw your question and thought I’d write in and let you know what helped me. I get palpitations when my thyroid levels are too high or too low. If you’re on any type of natural dessicated thyroid medication, then your TSH is not the best way to monitor your dose as it will be very supressed with natural thyroid medications, even if you actually need more medication.
The best lab tests for monitoring your thyroid level if you’re on natural dessicated thyroid hormones are the FREE T3 and the FREE T4. You can also get a Reverse T3, to see if there’s an issue, but the TSH isn’t that helpful when you’re on the Natural Thyroid.
Keeping a journal is also great, sounds like you’ve been keeping track of how you feel anyway, which is also an important part of this as well. I found that when I ate certain foods it caused me to get palpitations, particularly anything with artificial sweetener, (and there are lots of things that have this in it without being really obvious.
Here’s some other things that I’ve found that can help:
1. Going up in dose too fast (starting small, then holding that dose for about 2-3 weeks, longer if necessary before trying to increase
2. Taking my temperature every day upon wakening: Too much thyroid med will cause me to be warmer than normal, whereas too little causes my temp to be lower than normal
3. Iron: Both serum levels and ferritin should be checked. Many doctors won’t check your ferritin, and if it is low which happens in so many of us, then the thyroid medication can be problematic. Ferritin has a big range meaning that the low with some labs is around 10 and the high is 291 so for (10-291) for example. Mine came back at “11″ and one of my earlier doctors who didn’t have a clue said that I was “fine”. Well, I didn’t start feeling better until my ferritin was around 50 and even better when mine was 75. Also, most iron supplements make me sick to my stomach but I found one that is reasonably priced and doesn’t upset my stomach. So post again if you want me to share that one with you if you find you need iron.
4. Get copies of your own labwork. Wished I would have done that in the beginning, but I relied on the doctors to tell me I was “fine” or things were “normal” when I felt like crud. Only when I got my own labs and started asking questions and learning about where things should be for me to feel well did I turn things around. If you have your exact labs or get them post them here if you want some feedback. If they’ve never properly tested your thyroid, here are the ones to ask for initially.
Free T3
Free T4
TSH
TG Antibodies
TPO Antibodies
Reverse T3
Iron: Serum Iron and Ferritin
I would get a copy of your labs if I were you and then if you want feedback on them, just post them here, and someone will help.
5. Check your pulse rate 3x a day: and put that info in your journal
6. Write down all the other supplements and medications you are taking: Some over the counter things can cause you to be hyper thyroid, or having too much iodine.
7. Losing weight or if you’ve recently lost weight sometimes your dose has to be adjusted
8. Exercise: changing the amount of exercise can sometimes affect your thyroid
9. And I put the tests for it in the list above, but if you happen to have an autoimmune condition called Hashimotos (which is sometimes not tested for and should be) it can cause your body to release either too much or too litlle hormone and fluctuate between the two. So that’s why you need to be tested. (The two antibody tests for this are TPO Antibodies and TG Antibodies. You need both.
Hang in there.. I know what it’s like to be in limbo, but it can get better, please let me know how you’re doing.
Kay….I went on Naturethroid after seeing all the info online about natural vs synthetic. I was only taking 12 mcg of synthroid (50 put me way into hyper mode) and so sought out a naturopath. I was on 19 mcgs of Nature throid (1/2 grain) and after four weeks started with major palpitations. The Naturopath said it was an overload of T3…apparently my body wasn’t getting rid of it…TSH went to .4 on that small a dose. I have been off it for two and some weeks and can’t go on anyting else until the palpitations stop. Just went 3 days without them and thought “yes” now I can start on something else…but yesterday they came back and are back again today.
How long did it take for your palps to go away…or have they?
Hello April,
My doctor tests my Free T3, Free T4, TSH, and Reverse T3. Initially I also had TG Antibodies which are Thyroglobulin Antibody tests run, as well as TPO Antibodies. The Antibody tests will tell you if you have an auto immune condition such as Hashimotos that will affect your treatment. If they are both negative, no need to rerun them, but if you have thyroid antibodies, then you have to learn about auto-immune thyroid disease etc. Let me know if you need more help, and good luck.
I have been working with my family doctor for the past few months since being diagnosed with low thyroid (ie: hypothyroidism). I’m not sure that he is ordering the right tests though as I still don’t feel right and his nurse just tells me it will take some time for the medication to work. I think the first issue is that I am taking the synthetic thyroid medicine ie: Synthroid and think I may do better with trying the natural.
Before I bring up that subject could anyone please let me know what lab tests your doctor orders so that I can ask for the right tests to be done?
Thank you.
Hi to all the fellow thyroid patients here. I live in North Texas and I was doing well on Thyrolar until the shortage happened and then I went through feeling very depressed and miserable until I was able to get a dosease of the compounded Armour thyroid. That worked ok, not as well as Thyrolar, but ok, but sure beats having to deal with depression. My symptoms are being exhausted and depressed and until I started reading and investigating on my own, I would never have known that the years I was taking Synthroid without any relief from those symptoms could be helped if I changed to another thyroid med.
Hello everyone! I’m struggling with so many of the same issues posted here. Lucy, I know it’s terribly demoralizing to be told that your symptoms aren’t important or that everyone else has them. I don’t believe that it’s expected that during menopause we’ll all turn into fat ladies. Yes, it may be more difficult to manage our weight, but it shouldn’t be an expectation that it’s normal to be exhausted and gain weight during the pre-menopausal or menopausal years.
I just recently got the hypo thyroid diagnosis and want to become more knowledgeable myself on the choices for thyroid medication so that we all are not bullied into thinking Synthroid is the only option. Because it’s NOT. Right now I’m in the midst of a disagreement with my personal physician as she’s resisting changing my Synthroid over to a natural thyroid medication. I felt worse on the Synthroid than without any thyroid at all, and I only discovered the natural thyroid medication option after researching on my own. I’m so angry that I was never even given any options by my physician and automatically wrote a prescription for Synthroid although I’ve spent my entire life practicing healthy living and incorporating holistic and natural options into my lifestyle. I’m looking forward to learning more from you all and just appreciate that the info is getting out about natural thyroid medications.
I went to the doctor this week and told her that I’m always exhausted and have been gaining weight since Armour changed their reformulation and I asked about increasing my thyroid medication because I felt I needed to increase it. Her response was dismissive—she told me thyroid medication is not for losing weight.
I said I wasn’t asking about losing weight only–I’m asking about feeling better overall, and asked why we couldn’t do a blood test to check. She told me I’m in menopause and it’s normal to gain weight while in menopause.
What a way to be let down. Everything you read says tell your doctor if you have specific symptoms, yet I feel if I open my mouth, I am disregarded, dismissed, and generally told that no matter how badly I feel–that should be normal. Now keep in mind that I’m not a complainer. I have to be dragged to the doctor and would much rather keep myself healthy by exercising, eating right etc. I never had a problem before Armour changed their medication, so my question to my doctor is “why now?” Anyone else have a doctor that refuses to listen?
I hear you Albiento…I’m switching to NT b/c Synthoid has put me in panic attack hell and my MD thinks its stress thats causing the panic attacks. And I think y’all may have something going about naturopaths. I had to make a proposal to my MD with all the reasons why synthroid wasn’t working and he tried to talk me out of it for reasons that were old…batch problems, etc…(I could hear the drug rep talking in his head) I told him this is what I want…my biggest argument was that if I have a broken Thyroid how in the world can I expect it to produce T3. My results all came back well in range. But still does not account for the panic attacks. Anyway, he let me do it. Starting tomorrow. I want to be human again and not afraid to go outside. We’ll see.
I’ve been on synthroid for 13 years. My doctors blamed my symptoms of irritability, anxiety, nervousness, exessive worring and intolerance on perimenopause and of course tried to put me on prozac. My already severe symptoms worsened 5 years ago and then then blamed it on menopause. More trying to get me on anti depressants. Finally a friend told me what I was experienceing wasnt hot flashes, it was anxiety. I stopped the synthroid and went on armour OMG I’m human again. My eyes are watering again, less sensitive to lights, my hair and skin are getting oily and I dont feel like thowing myself under a bus. I was having chemically enduced anxiety from the synthroid T4 only treatment. Although I’m feeling better, I’m allergic to the armour fillers which give me itching and bronchitis. I refuse to go back on synthroid. Has anyone else had this problem and which natural thyroid has worked?
Finally starting to feel better after changing to the Canadian Thyroid medication. I had to change my dose to take 1/4 grain less because it feels stronger to me than the Armour. Had to really put pressure on my doctor to write the prescription for the Canadian version. I don’t think he realizes how important it is to have a thyroid medicine that actually works for the individual. He thinks actually the synthetic will work for everyone…yikes Synthroid was Syncrap for me, then Armour used to work, until they changed, but so far, I like the Canadian thyroid medication.
I am an RN who has taken Armour for over 20 years and have a very similar story regarding inability to take synthroid (the drug pushed by most docs) and a new onset of symptoms when I began the new formulated Armour.
I experienced cardiac symptoms for the first time in my life necessitating a cardiologist visit and work-up. After normal heart assessment I realized it is this poorly manufactured Armour that is the culprit causing this as well as my other symptoms.
I believe that Forest Labs has a fiduciary as well as a moral responsibility to communicate any changes to the pharmacists and to the physicians as well as the public. To make a unilateral decision to alter a drug taken by so many, causing a myriad of health issues, is unconscionable in my opinion and a class action suit though difficult may be just the thing to make drug companies own their responsibilities.
I switched to NatureThroid last fall when my pharmacy was unable to get Armour. I did fine on it until this last refill when heart palpitations began and became increasingly worse. After calling the pharmacist, I learned that NatureThroid has reformulated (as Armour has) so I knew the source of the problem. He said the federal government has forced these companies to reformulate so that the dosing is consistent. What are those of us who depend on these products to live supposed to do?
I started on the old armour thyroid medication, then changed to the old naturethroid and finally am on the new naturethroid. There was a small period of time after I switched from the new armour to the old naturethroid because my hypo symptoms came back after taking the new armour and so my labs and body was all mixed up.
I didn’t notice anything different after changing to the new NatureThroid except that if I need to split the tablets they now come “scored” which makes it easier to split them in 1/2 if I need to. My body is really sensitive and I couldn’t tell any difference other than the looks of the new NatureThroid so I was pretty happy with that.
It’s been almost 4 months for me taking the new NatureThroid and I think it works even better than the old Armour for me. I know everyone is different, so please make sure to choose whatever works best for you. BTW, my dosease never changed from the old NatureThyroid to the new one.
Hope this helps!
WOW!!! I have spent hundreds of dollars between October and December to have various doctors explain to me why:
1) my stomach was hurting ALL THE TIME!!!!!! (ulcers? no)
2) my hair was falling out (7 inches in 3 MONTHS!!!!!!!! YES, I AM ALMOST BALD) Was it DHT? An allergic reaction to my hairdresser’s shampoo? no.
3) my HEAD WAS HURTING FOR TWO MONTHS (sinus infection? no brain tumour? no)
4) my joints were hurting, my skin was drying, I felt SO depressed, I was having terrible mood swings,strange periods, acne, and on and on and on..
I had been on Armour for 5 years (after a long run of being misdiagnosed) and Armour saved my life! Now, I feel like Armour was trying to KILL me these past couple of months! I completely BROKE! I ordered Erfa from Canada last week and have taken 3 days worth (wish me well). I tried the compounded Armour last month, but they use cellulose to compound and my body REJECTS THAT SUBSTANCE like none other. It gave me HORRIBLE constipation and never relieved my symptoms. I pray that Erfa works…..
We need to ORGANIZE! We need a National Day of call-ins to Nature Throid and Forest to demand that they change back to the old formulations. And we need a LAWYER to take up this cause and sue the HELL out of Armour ( and from what others are saying, maybe Naturethroid, too).
Leslyn, you are right! there is something fishy with these stories. Were these reformulations motivated by profit?Was there a tainted component from some unregulated foreign country? What is going on here, and why do WE now have to become chemists and private investigators to get a drug that OUR LIVES depend on? if this is quality health-care, I’ll PASS!!!!!!!
I am on Nature Throid, and guess what everyone. Nature Throid has reformulated as well. Been taking the new one for about the past 2-3 weeks, and can’t believe that some of my symptoms are yet back again. Feeling like I can’t sleep, weight gain, shakiness, so I’m back taking my adrenal support. Haven’t changed my thyroid doseage at all, had mine removed over 30 years ago, so I’m used to taking thyroid medications. Anyone else not having a good experience with the new Nature Throid?
And, I too am so sorry you are all suffering. This is unbelievable how much trouble has been caused by Forrest Labs changing the Armour. I was doing alright on the old Nature Throid, but now since they’ve changed I’m not sure what I’m going to do. I’ll report back also after I either change to the Canadian thyroid or see if I can find some old Nature Throid to compare again.
Hmmm….misery loves company!!! Well my fellow hypo sufferers I am so very sorry from the bottom of my heart for you pain and suffering, I can relate to you all!! I’m not happy you’re suffering too but there is a level of comfort in the fact that through hearing your stories I know I’m not completely crazy. I’m a 48 year old woman and I think my hypo ordeal started about 4 years ago. I had doc’s who wanted to put me on drugs for depression, anxiety, lyme disease, arthritis, fibromyalgia, etc., etc. I eventually diagnosed myself and wrote a 3 page letter to my primary doc. She did labs and said although I was low it was low “normal.” Why was I not feeling even close to normal then???? Ok so she put me of levothryroxine (?) it didn’t work except to turn me into an insomniac. She then switched me to Synthroid, no insomnia but also no change in symptoms. By this point my joints all hurt so bad I thought I was going to die. After many doc’s through a long chain of events I was put on Armour and within about a month it was like a veil was lifted and I could see life again.
I told my husband last year something was wrong because I started getting all the symptoms back again and I noticed the Armour “smelled” different. Through different websites I found once again I wasn’t crazy because there were others suffering the same fate because of Armour’s reformulation. Ugggggggggg!!!
I think I going to try Nature throid to see if that’s any better. I feel like this battle will never end:-(
To Brooke in Alabama: You have a wonderful hospital at the University of Alabama Hospitals in Birmingham. The south is not known for good medical care, but you have a good one there.
For all the rest: I know you’re tired, and you’re sad, and no one has helped you yet, and your insurance won’t pay for it, and the doctor won’t listen–yada, yada, yada. You must take charge of your health. Natural thyroid costs way less than synthetic–that’s why I’m able to pay for it without insurance. If it costs a dollar a day (mine does), stop drinking soda or buying that candy bar. (They’re bad for you anyway.) What are you willing to do for your health?
Don’t complain about what you choose to permit.
EVERYONE: Listen to Susan of Oct 30! Go see a Naturopath who is also an MD!
After 5 years of undiagnosed hypothyroidism–stories just like yours, doctor after doctor–my neighbor, a psychiatrist, referred me to his MD, a naturopath. I’d already known for the previous 2 years that I was hypothyroid, but because my labs came back “normal,” no one would believe me. I had gained 90 pounds, my hair was falling out, I couldn’t get out of bed for more than 2 hours a day (and even that had me sweating and nauseous), and depression meds couldn’t read the depth of my symptoms. After the 5th?–7th?–9th?–doctor said my thyroid labs were normal, I put my head in my lap and cried right in her office.
So I went to the naturopath MD. Like a good girl, I brought two weeks of morning temps, and my last lab tests. This Dr took my lab tests and threw them over his shoulder and said, “These are wrong 50% of the time.” I never got them back. It was a liberating moment. I never wanted them back. I never wanted to see them again.
The naturopath MD diagnosed me based on my symptoms (just like doctors used to do!). He said, “You’re hypothyroid.” I said, “I know.” He said, “I’m going to write you a prescription.” I said, “DON’T PUT ME ON SYNTHROID!” He said, “I would NEVER do that to you!”
He put me on Armour Thyroid (the old formulation). Three months later I went back to see my old doctor. I had dropped 20 pounds, and I was glowing. She was amazed at the change. I told her about my experience, just to try to educate her. She said: “You know, I suppose I should look into this. My sister is hypothyroid, and she just lays in bed and gets fatter and fatter.”
I was so appalled I didn’t know what to say to her that wasn’t horribly offensive. (Besides, doctors are SO sensitive.) My thoughts were, “You are a DOCTOR, and you won’t help your SISTER, because even though you know she is hypothyroid she “just LAYS in BED and gets FATTER and FATTER!?” A doctor with that degree of prejudice toward her own sister. I never went back to that doctor again.
You must grab hold of control of your own health until you find the help you need. I now live in another state and my previous naturopth MD died, but my practitioner is willing to go along with me if I do the work–if I do the research, find the pharmacy, and insist on not receiving a synthetic prescription.
The posts were interesting though, because my labs have yo-yo’d over the last eight months, I’m gaining weight, I’m exhausted–and my last DAYTIME temp at the doc’s office was 97.2! That scared me half to death. When my meds are working, my daytime temp is a “normal” 98.6. I’m going to pick up my next Armour prescription, but I’m buying a thermomether with it, and I’m going to call the number Sandra gave for Forest Labs 800 678 1605 (it works but the extensions given no longer do) and pester the the fear of God into them. I also need to send for my previous medical records so that my current practicitioner can see that 97.2 is not “normal.”
You must take charge of your own health. No one else will do it for you. No one else will rescue you. Empower yourself! You are not a victim unless you choose to be! I heard a TV preacher say this, but it was right on:
“Don’t complain about what you choose to permit.”
One last comment: to say that the only change in the formulation was the “binders and fillers” doesn’t sound right to me. It doesn’t seem to account for the large variation in effectiveness. Anyone think like I do that Forest is not telling the whole story?
And is anyone out there thinking about a class action lawsuit?
Gail, Your story gives me hope. After so many doctors visits and being told I am “fine” but knowing that I’m slowly losing more of my ability to function, I simply must find someone to address my thyroid issues. It’s funny I can recognize the symptoms of a thyroid problem in other people just by looking, yet for some reason it’s soooooo darn difficult to find a good doctor who can properly diagnose and treat us. I’ve had nodules in my neck for years. Been told that they’re “fine” but they ache all the time and I think they are getting larger so it’s probably time to go in and have them re-checked again. I just saw an episode of the Real Housewives of Orange County and on eof the daughters of one of the housewives on the show has finally been diagnosed with thyroid nodules. I had thought she had a thyroid problem for a long time because in following the show I watched her weight escalate and although it hasn’t been addressed, I’m sure that has caused her much grief and heartache. She’s actually a nurse herself, a new graduate, and I just hope beyond hope that she finds a good doctor to help her. She was in the stage of getting biopsies done, I don’t know her outcome, hope that hers turns out ok, but just because nodules are found to be non-malignant doesn’t mean that the thyroid isn’t wreaking havoc in the body. But posts like yours are a breath of fresh air that show if we keep on keeping on..it is possible to feel better, so thanks for your insights and kindness in sharing your story.
Gail, I know exactly how you feel. I spent four years with an endocrinologist who didn’t listen, wouldn’t listen and when I told her I could hardly move, she told me to go to my regular doctor and get on antidepressants. Four trips to the ER, and two more endocrinologists later, a client from my job asked why I was missing so much work and I told her it was thyroid. She gave me the name of her doctor and said “see him. He’s great.” I thank God EVERY day for this doctor. The ER doctors had my husband convinced I was just a nut case. Nothing wrong with me. My thyroid levels were “in the normal range.” My doctor is an Internal Medicine doctor. My first visit with him, I couldn’t even hold my head up. I shook so bad and sweat so much, I would have to put cold towels on my neck to cool down and keep from feeling like I was just going to fall over and pass out. It’s been a LONG two year journey, but he’s finally getting me back to a functional state. I don’t know to this day how I went to work every day and drove home. I would sleep thru my lunch hours. The doctor told me going in “this is going to take a long time to get you back to normal. You’ve had years of doctors misdiagnosing and mistreating you and now we have to reverse that.” My gosh, he couldn’t have been more right. I cannot take synthetic drugs and when i would tell the other doctors I couldn’t take them, they would tell me I had no choice. I moved on to another doctor. My last doctor before my current doc, threw her hands up in the air and said “why don’t you go check yourself into a University hospital and have them do tests on you. I don’t know what’s wrong with you.” My doctor now has had his thyroid removed and he understands. He doesn’t base how I feel on what my thyroid lab tests show. Everyone is different. Our bodies are different and what might be normal at a level 4 for one patient is too high or too low for another patient. ONLY WE KNOW OUR BODIES. I had a doctor tell me one day after a long talk with him that “if you leave your doctor’s office with more questions than you had when you went in, you need a new doctor.” You know, he’s right. He was a great doctor and I always appreciated him. Unfortunately, he wasn’t my primary, just a sub when my primary was gone. That’s all he needed to tell me to move on. I spent too much time trying to diagnose myself. I don’t do that anymore. I have that much confidence in my doctor that I let him worry about me. I have never been able to do that before!!!
You’re also right about menopause. Most doctors will blame your symptoms on menopause. There’s nothing worse than going thru perimenopause or menopause and having thryoid issues too.
Don’t give up. Keep asking people who their doctors are. If you can’t find a good Endo, try someone in Internal Medicine who will also work with you on the natural meds. Call your local pharmacies and ask if they have any doctors who prescribe the natural thyroid meds. That also helped me!!
Good luck.
I had my thyroid removed last year in June and let me first say that anyone who is being told to get this operation, STOP! Don’t do it unless it’s a must do situation. Get a second, third, fourth, opinion. Just make sure there is no other option. I wish I had and I also wish the Endo. would have told me of options instead of going straight for my throat. My surgeon was great but he really didn’ do what was best for me but rather what was easier for him. They all make it sound so simple, you will just have to take thyroid replacement. As others know, it’s not simple and they don’t want to put anyone on the Natural thyroid. I started on levothyroxine was on it for three months. My hair came out like crazy, was tired all the time and my insides felt like a cat purring. Got my family Dr. to prescribe Armour but it was too much and I spent another 3 months hyperthyroid with my eyes feeling like they were going to pop and my hair still coming out. Still on Armour ,lower dose but not the right dose. My second Endo just keeps trying to put me back on the synthetic and blames everything on the varying levels of T3 in “that pig thyroid which no two pigs are alike, some have more and some have less”. I told him no two people are alike and some need more and some need less. I am now in search of my third Dr. to help me with this mess I am now stuck with for the rest of my life. Must admit, feeling pretty defeated and just want to not wake up someday. The Dr’s are making me feel this way by their lack of interest in what I keep telling them, the way I am feeling and the symptoms I’m having. They don’t care. By the way if you are a female of a certain age they will try to blame your symptoms on the change of life. HA HA
I read several blogs about a recall of Armour from the FDA. I’m not sure if this is so. I do know Forrest Industries is reformulating. I am so upset that for YEARS Synthroid was pushed like candy to all Hypothyroid patients. As a nurse, I saw this first hand. As a patient, every doctor I went to tried to convince me there was no other drug better for my Hashimoto thyroiditis. They were not the one that was experiencing sympoms of hypothyroid even when my levels were perfect. It amazes me how health professionals rely on drug manufacturers for their education. First off, synthetic cannot begin to compare to the response received by a natural derriative. Synthroid was not FDA approved until the 90′s. However, doctors pushed for this drug for their patients. I would say big money is the issue here. I do not want to return to a snythetic hormone. I hope those of you who do not wish to either, will push for Armour to start manufacturing and releasing it as soon as possible.
I was taking Armour. When it became unavailable I switched to Naturethroid. Two months later that is no longer available. My doc said that thyroid meds can be compounded at a compounding pharmacy. It’s made from the same active ingredient as Armour and Naturethroid but the capsules are “made to order” so to speak. I’m so thankful that this option is available as I did NOT want to take synthetic thyroid meds.
If you do not have a compounding pharmacy in your area I would think you could find the closest one, even if out of state, have your doc call in your rx and they will mail it to you.
Stop playing around with your regular Doctor and go see a Naturopath
They believe in these products and beleive symptoms are more important and more accurate than tests
ALSO have the product Nature-Throid right on site and give you your prescription without you having to run around looking for it
I am literally at the end of my rope. I had been suffering with weight gain, depression, dry skin, constipation, no menstrual cycle at all and my doctor finally sent me for thyroid tests. Before getting the test results back he went ahead and put me on Synthroid 100 mcg a day. I have been taking it for months now and I still feel terrible, maybe even worse. I’ve asked my doctor to send me for hormone tests and get my pituitary gland checked as well, but he thinks I’m some crazy internet nut. I don’t understand this, it is not like he is paying for the tests, I am. All he had to do was send me to get them, I basically begged him to. I asked him about Armour because I’ve heard really great things about it and he just blew it off and said Sythroid was better. I told him that it wasn’t helping my symptoms, that I still wasn’t having a menstrual cycle, I was still constipated, and depressed. He sent me back to see how my thyroid was functioning and then told me that my levels were perfect. Well, I don’t feel perfect and I have every symptom of having thyroid problems, pituitary problems ect. I’ve read that when you have a pituitary problem that it can affect your thyroid and adrenal glands, but my doctor will not listen to me. He refuses to even try Armour or get me tested. I am at the end of my rope and I need a new doctor but I’m in Alabama and I don’t know of a good doctor for this type of thing around here that will prescribe Armour. It seems like so many doctors do not want to prescribe it, but then I read on the internet and in magazines where it is helping so many people. I don’t know what to do.
I too have had a wonderful experience with Armour thyroid after years of struggling with synthroid and have been symptom free of my Hashimoto’s for the last three years – until now. Lethargy, muscle aches, hair loss, temperature disregulation, digestion problems, and just feeling like a 60 watt bulb only able to muster up 15 watts of energy. After reading what everyone has said I called Forest Labs and spoke with a pharmacist, a nurse and customer care. They were very interested in what I had to say and would like anyone who is having problems since the reformulation to contact them. The reason for the change is a supposed bioavailability increase with the change between sucrose (why the original tasted sweet) to cellulose. Doesn’t make sense to me as cellulose in indigestible and if the active ingredient is binding to it, it may be less available than with the sucrose formulation. Any thoughts? I also asked about the rumored FDA requirements – NO the FDA is not requiring them to go through trials as they are grandfathered in under the “generally recognized as safe” ruling. They have also just released a large amount of the one grain size (60mg) to pharmacies so it should be available. He said that if the pharmacy didn’t have it yet to call Forest Labs again. He also wanted me to speak to a nurse to document the symptoms I was experiencing. The transfer was quick – no getting put on long holds, and she was very thorough and pleasant. The pharmacist, Pat, and the nurse that I spoke to want to hear from the people who are having difficulties with the change in formulation – so Call, Call and Call again. The only way to get the formula back to where it was is if we let them know it now doesn’t work. Call 800 678 1605 ext 66297 for medical input and 66298 for customer service and quality control. One voice is a whisper, many voices is a shout to be acknowledged.
I’ve had a thyroid disease for 9 years. I first had Graves disease and eventually had RIU which killed most of the cells in my thyroid leaving me hypo. I started on Nature Throid 2 years ago and finally got to the perfect level of dosage. Things were so good for 6 months then bam all of a sudden I can’t get Nature Throid because so many people switched from Armour to Nature Throid. In my city all pharmacies are out and on back order so I had to switch to Armour. Now I’m getting bad symproms again, the most being inflammation in my knees and causing severe pain. Also I’m starting to itch and my heart is acting strange. I’ve had to reduce my dose because I’m starting to hyper out. I’m so frustrated with this situation, especially finding out that a drug company changed it’s formula, thus causing so many patients to have bad symptoms and creating this high demand for a drug I’ve been using for 2 years.
This has been a “nightmare”…….I am so tired of this I do not even want to discuss all of the problems that I have had this entire summer with my thyroid and my thyroid medicines……..all I can say is…..a doctor needs to educate themselves about hypothyroidism and start manufacturing a natural formula of T-4 & T-3 and get the thing right……….we patients should not have to go through this……..researching it ourselves etc.
This to me just shows the incompetency of our Medical Healthcare system in the USA…
Only us woman , approximately 59 millions us have hypothyroidism in this country……and I feel all of thses shortages of thyroid is just another big “pharmaceutical bubble” big Pharma is creating and then watch…..they will jack the price up when it comes back on the market……….
I checked with the FDA yesterday and they said it is all lies they never stopped production of Amour , Natur-throid or any other natural thyroid manufacturing company from producing their medicines…..
I just saw however that Synthroid company had a lawsuit in 1998……so that makes me not want to go on levothyroxine temporarily……I would rather take the natural with both t-4 and t-3 in it…..
I have ten days to find some…….and why should I and millions of us woman have to spend our days looking and calling and investigating this problem……Someone , some doctor or some company should be get their butts in gear and get it done……this is worse than any Canadian ever thought of for the care of a medical problem….don’t tell me after what I have been through in the USA with my hypothyroidism condition that we do not have to wait for medical care in the USA……..all of us woman have gotten messed up with Amour thyroid reformulation idea and now will have to wait 3 months before they can get the medicines back on the market………Do you call this Quality CARE……..I don’t think so!